Crysis 2 dev: Both consoles are equal, but PS3 is 'lowest denominator'

[QUOTE="themyth01"][QUOTE="gpuking"] You keep amuse me with your ignorance. MLAA is cheaper than MSAA only on the PS3 lol, yet gives out much better results.gpuking

Seriously dude, you have trouble reading. My previous response outlined all the technical inefficiencies found in Crysis 2 console footage which can be seen on youtube links posted here. There is no aa on console footage shown so far and what's so hard to understand? The edge smooth aa technique is yet to be seen on consoles so technically I'm right. You just proven to me you never looked through the Crytek pdf on cryengine 3.0 otherwise you'd know the GI calculation is almost free for 1 or 3 light propagation volume. I'm just about done with you

You sure you want to continue with this parade of yours? You have not cited any technical merits, just lies as mentioned above and visual cues. Fact is, Crysis is doing Dynamic lighting and KZ3 is not, you can't disprove this. So what's your basis for declaring KZ3 is better technically? nothing but your opinion on visuals and yet you keep rambling on.

You still haven't said how Dynamic GI is nearly free, which is the most BS I've heard in a long time. Nowhere in the PDF does it even hint as this being a nearly free calculation. Seriously, just stop the fanboy talk and focus on the facts.

Here's the method for GI, which you claim is nearly free:

1.

Sample lit surfaces

–

Treat them as secondary light sources

2.

Cluster samples into a uniform coarse 3D grid

–

Sum up and average radiance in each cell

3.

Iteratively propagate radiance to adjacent cells, works only for diffuse

4.

Lit the scene with the resulting grid

Take any of those steps and you have thousands of calculations. We're looking at least at a Θ(N^3) algorithm here, yea nearly free alright :roll:

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

[QUOTE="themyth01"] The pot calling the kettle black. You claim KZ3 is better technically but have no proof at all whatsoever. Then you start making incorrect claims and lies such as no AA in Crysis 2 when it's obviously using AA. Then you try to dismiss Dynamic GI when only 3 games so far have ever used this method, furthermore you call it nearly free, lol like hell it is, that's why so many games use it right? You're obviously making up stuff and have no real idea what it is you're talking about. themyth01

They are roughly the same visually, but The performance on C2 kills it. Everything else you said is right, just stop arguing with him lol :P

Was not referring to visuals, as many before have pointed out to him, Crysis is doing everything dynamically which is far mroe expensive than KZ3's static lighting method.

Also, lol at the MLAA being cheaper only on PS3, with better results too.. wow well I wasn't sure before but now I know you're just another cow. MLAA has been done on 360 taking only 3.7s, while on the PS3 it takes 4.5s using 4 SPUs. And MLAA is a method, it's result is not biased by the hardware.

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

They are roughly the same visually, but The performance on C2 kills it. Everything else you said is right, just stop arguing with him lol :P

gpuking

Was not referring to visuals, as many before have pointed out to him, Crysis is doing everything dynamically which is far mroe expensive than KZ3's static lighting method.

Also, lol at the MLAA being cheaper only on PS3, with better results too.. wow well I wasn't sure before but now I know you're just another cow. MLAA has been done on 360 taking only 3.7s, while on the PS3 it takes 4.5s using 4 SPUs. And MLAA is a method, it's result is not biased by the hardware.

lol they start at 3.7s and down since the 3.7 s is done using XNA, a managed code API which doesn't even support the DX implemented in the 360, seriously... come on man, don't try to bs me. MLAA has been done on 360 faster than on PS3, how is it not suitable for 360 again?

KZ3 has many more static lights than dynamic. Their global lighting is static and they use baked textures, this is from GG themselves. I have also posted the source in another post in the past so you can search my history for it.

I'm trying to take you seriously but you keep lying..

It makes a difference when such feature is more expensive and has only been done in three games so far. So it's definitely a technical merit. KZ2's engine has global static lighting, this has been said by GG themselves, look it up if you're not sure. Some dynamic lights don't make it a dynamic solution, even Halo has dynamic lighting. Crysis 2 however does everything dynamically.

[QUOTE="gpuking"][QUOTE="themyth01"]

Was not referring to visuals, as many before have pointed out to him, Crysis is doing everything dynamically which is far mroe expensive than KZ3's static lighting method.

Also, lol at the MLAA being cheaper only on PS3, with better results too.. wow well I wasn't sure before but now I know you're just another cow. MLAA has been done on 360 taking only 3.7s, while on the PS3 it takes 4.5s using 4 SPUs. And MLAA is a method, it's result is not biased by the hardware.

themyth01

lol they start at 3.7s and down since the 3.7 s is done using XNA, a managed code API which doesn't even support the DX implemented in the 360, seriously... come on man, don't try to bs me. MLAA has been done on 360 faster than on PS3, how is it not suitable for 360 again?

KZ3 has many more static lights than dynamic. Their global lighting is static and they use baked textures, this is from GG themselves. I have also posted the source in another post in the past so you can search my history for it.

I'm trying to take you seriously but you keep lying..

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

[QUOTE="gpuking"] Static lighting on kz3 lol? Do you know how many dynamic lights can be done in kz2&3, try hundreds. Don't confuse yourself with dynamic lights and shadows. As for MLAA on 360, they start at 3.75ms AND UP so it pretty much means it would take much longer time compared to average 4ms on 5 Spus. MLAA is just not suitable for 360, sure it can run it but the cost is severe. The closest 360 could use is DLAA which is still inferior to MLAA, and ps3 also runs that faster. 1.7ms vs 2.2 msgpuking

lol they start at 3.7s and down since the 3.7 s is done using XNA, a managed code API which doesn't even support the DX implemented in the 360, seriously... come on man, don't try to bs me. MLAA has been done on 360 faster than on PS3, how is it not suitable for 360 again?

KZ3 has many more static lights than dynamic. Their global lighting is static and they use baked textures, this is from GG themselves. I have also posted the source in another post in the past so you can search my history for it.

I'm trying to take you seriously but you keep lying..

So you're also uninformed heh.

http://www.realtimerendering.com/blog/morphological-antialiasing/

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/xbox-360-mlaa-tech-demo

"Typical execution times are 3.79 ms on Xbox 360"

http://www.iryokufx.com/mlaa/

Mind you that's on XNA, which doesn't even have access to the full feature set of DX on XBOX360. MLAA implemented with the actually 360 API will be faster.

Crysis 2 still has more dynamic lights especially considering it's doing GI, which takes into account each object in the scene when doing lighting, something more computation intensive than simple phong lighting models like KZ2.

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

[QUOTE="gpuking"] Static lighting on kz3 lol? Do you know how many dynamic lights can be done in kz2&3, try hundreds. Don't confuse yourself with dynamic lights and shadows. As for MLAA on 360, they start at 3.75ms AND UP so it pretty much means it would take much longer time compared to average 4ms on 5 Spus. MLAA is just not suitable for 360, sure it can run it but the cost is severe. The closest 360 could use is DLAA which is still inferior to MLAA, and ps3 also runs that faster. 1.7ms vs 2.2 msgpuking

lol they start at 3.7s and down since the 3.7 s is done using XNA, a managed code API which doesn't even support the DX implemented in the 360, seriously... come on man, don't try to bs me. MLAA has been done on 360 faster than on PS3, how is it not suitable for 360 again?

KZ3 has many more static lights than dynamic. Their global lighting is static and they use baked textures, this is from GG themselves. I have also posted the source in another post in the past so you can search my history for it.

I'm trying to take you seriously but you keep lying..

[QUOTE="gpuking"][QUOTE="themyth01"]

lol they start at 3.7s and down since the 3.7 s is done using XNA, a managed code API which doesn't even support the DX implemented in the 360, seriously... come on man, don't try to bs me. MLAA has been done on 360 faster than on PS3, how is it not suitable for 360 again?

KZ3 has many more static lights than dynamic. Their global lighting is static and they use baked textures, this is from GG themselves. I have also posted the source in another post in the past so you can search my history for it.

I'm trying to take you seriously but you keep lying..

themyth01

So you're also uninformed heh.

http://www.realtimerendering.com/blog/morphological-antialiasing/

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/xbox-360-mlaa-tech-demo

"Typical execution times are 3.79 ms on Xbox 360"

http://www.iryokufx.com/mlaa/

Mind you that's on XNA, which doesn't even have access to the full feature set of DX on XBOX360. MLAA implemented with the actually 360 API will be faster.

[QUOTE="gpuking"][QUOTE="themyth01"]

lol they start at 3.7s and down since the 3.7 s is done using XNA, a managed code API which doesn't even support the DX implemented in the 360, seriously... come on man, don't try to bs me. MLAA has been done on 360 faster than on PS3, how is it not suitable for 360 again?

KZ3 has many more static lights than dynamic. Their global lighting is static and they use baked textures, this is from GG themselves. I have also posted the source in another post in the past so you can search my history for it.

I'm trying to take you seriously but you keep lying..

ferret-gamer

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

[QUOTE="gpuking"] I have yet to come across any official statement made from devs claiming MLAA is faster on 360, you are making things up out of thin air. And again, you're too wrong about kz2's lighting. One level of kz2 uses up to 350+ dynamic lights, as for whether are they all shadow casting is a different story. You keep calling me a fanboy for lying yet you got your own "fact" all wrong.gpuking

So you're also uninformed heh.

http://www.realtimerendering.com/blog/morphological-antialiasing/

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/xbox-360-mlaa-tech-demo

"Typical execution times are 3.79 ms on Xbox 360"

http://www.iryokufx.com/mlaa/

Mind you that's on XNA, which doesn't even have access to the full feature set of DX on XBOX360. MLAA implemented with the actually 360 API will be faster.

[QUOTE="gpuking"][QUOTE="themyth01"]

So you're also uninformed heh.

http://www.realtimerendering.com/blog/morphological-antialiasing/

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/xbox-360-mlaa-tech-demo

"Typical execution times are 3.79 ms on Xbox 360"

http://www.iryokufx.com/mlaa/

Mind you that's on XNA, which doesn't even have access to the full feature set of DX on XBOX360. MLAA implemented with the actually 360 API will be faster.

themyth01

[QUOTE="themyth01"][QUOTE="gpuking"] A tech demo, claps. gpuking

Funny comming from a guy with gpuking as gamertag. If you truly are the king of GPUs then you should know that benchmarks are saying a lot of how a GPU performs.

[QUOTE="themyth01"][QUOTE="gpuking"] A tech demo, claps. gpuking

You're just reaching right now, I've just shown you a video of MLAA being done on 360. It's actually rather pathetic how you want to dismiss it. This is MLAA being done on the GPU, using less resources than MSAA, of course it can be done in a full game.

Crysis 2 still has more dynamic lights especially considering it's doing GI, which takes into account each object in the scene when doing lighting, something more computation intensive than simple phong lighting models like KZ2.

themyth01

Who cares if the game looks like poo on the 360? Consoles are insufficient to run that advanced graphics so fully dynamic lighting and GI of Crysis 2 looks worse than KZ's cheap tricks. I even think that Crytek will cut this stuff during the optimization process and go for some pre-baked lighting. That would be the right choice on consoles.

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

Crysis 2 still has more dynamic lights especially considering it's doing GI, which takes into account each object in the scene when doing lighting, something more computation intensive than simple phong lighting models like KZ2.

Orchid87

Who cares if the game looks like poo on the 360? Consoles are insufficient to run that advanced graphics and fully dynamic lighting and GI of Crysis 2 looks worse than KZ's cheap tricks. I even think that Crytek will cut this stuff during the optimization process and go for some pre-baked lighting. That would be the right choice on consoles.

[QUOTE="themyth01"]

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

They are roughly the same visually, but The performance on C2 kills it. Everything else you said is right, just stop arguing with him lol :P

gpuking

Was not referring to visuals, as many before have pointed out to him, Crysis is doing everything dynamically which is far mroe expensive than KZ3's static lighting method.

Also, lol at the MLAA being cheaper only on PS3, with better results too.. wow well I wasn't sure before but now I know you're just another cow. MLAA has been done on 360 taking only 3.7s, while on the PS3 it takes 4.5s using 4 SPUs. And MLAA is a method, it's result is not biased by the hardware.

[QUOTE="themyth01"][QUOTE="gpuking"] A tech demo, claps. gpuking

[QUOTE="gpuking"][QUOTE="themyth01"]

mlaa is cheaper than msaa. go watch the crysis 2 e3 demo and learn something.

You keep amuse me with your ignorance. MLAA is cheaper than MSAA only on the PS3 lol, yet gives out much better results. The pot calling the kettle black. You claim KZ3 is better technically but have no proof at all whatsoever. Then you start making incorrect claims and lies such as no AA in Crysis 2 when it's obviously using AA. Then you try to dismiss Dynamic GI when only 3 games so far have ever used this method, furthermore you call it nearly free, lol like hell it is, that's why so many games use it right? You're obviously making up stuff and have no real idea what it is you're talking about. themyth01

C2

KZ3

C2 has just been Killzoned, :P

Crysis 2 is still an incredible looking game. Maybe not up to Gears 3 or Rage level right now, but we'll just have to wait and see.

From this interview:

http://www.gameblog.fr/blogs/eska/p_16980_mes-amis-les-devs-daniel-phillips

[QUOTE="Gameblog"]AKka:What was the Lead Console at the beginning of Crysis 2 dev ?

Daniel:At the start I believe it was the Xbox 360 that was used as the console benchmark. As of now though, we've switched to the PS3 as our "low end" benchmark. Not because it's inferior to the 360, but because it's just so much harder to develop on. It has very different specs compared to the 360.

---

AKka: Does the hardware difference between the 360 and the PS3 allow one of these version to look better?

Daniel:When I worked on A:CM I would have said yes to this question. During that project we found that the PS3 gave far better visuals than the 360. But having worked on Crysis 2, I have found that the quality is all dependant on the programming team. As it stands right now, the quality is near identical between the 360 and PS3 for Crysis 2 (and amazing)NotTarts

He's pretty much saying that both the 360 and PS3 are just as powerful as each other, but the PS3 is the lowest denominator in the development because it's harder to program for (and more likely to have errors in code). I don't actually think they'll be perfectly equal (although we've seen it before), but it'll be interesting to see how it turns out in the end.

The interview itself is pretty interesting, too.

[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"] it looked really fake/cheap, unrealistic and altogether bad.delta3074

I think it looks pretty good even now myself.

It is rather sad that they have to dump down 360 version because of the PS3 old GPU and hard to master design

Castlevania is another victim of that

The good thing is that Project Kingdoms, the next big thing from Crytek is 360 exclusive, so they wont hold back on this one

It is rather sad that they have to dump down 360 version because of the PS3 old GPU and hard to master design

Castlevania is another victim of that

The good thing is that Project Kingdoms, the next big thing from Crytek is 360 exclusive, so they wont hold back on this one

Does this mean they're gimping the 360 version so the PS3 can be on par?Deathtransit

If you care that much about graphics then you should only game on a pc

[QUOTE="themyth01"][QUOTE="gpuking"][QUOTE="themyth01"]

mlaa is cheaper than msaa. go watch the crysis 2 e3 demo and learn something.

You keep amuse me with your ignorance. MLAA is cheaper than MSAA only on the PS3 lol, yet gives out much better results. The pot calling the kettle black. You claim KZ3 is better technically but have no proof at all whatsoever. Then you start making incorrect claims and lies such as no AA in Crysis 2 when it's obviously using AA. Then you try to dismiss Dynamic GI when only 3 games so far have ever used this method, furthermore you call it nearly free, lol like hell it is, that's why so many games use it right? You're obviously making up stuff and have no real idea what it is you're talking about. Anastasia1997

[QUOTE="Anastasia1997"]

[QUOTE="themyth01"][QUOTE="gpuking"][QUOTE="themyth01"]

mlaa is cheaper than msaa. go watch the crysis 2 e3 demo and learn something.

You keep amuse me with your ignorance. MLAA is cheaper than MSAA only on the PS3 lol, yet gives out much better results. The pot calling the kettle black. You claim KZ3 is better technically but have no proof at all whatsoever. Then you start making incorrect claims and lies such as no AA in Crysis 2 when it's obviously using AA. Then you try to dismiss Dynamic GI when only 3 games so far have ever used this method, furthermore you call it nearly free, lol like hell it is, that's why so many games use it right? You're obviously making up stuff and have no real idea what it is you're talking about. themyth01

O.K, heres a better comparison to show you how much betetr the texturing is

KZ3

C2

It is rather sad that they have to dump down 360 version because of the PS3 old GPU and hard to master design

Castlevania is another victim of that

The good thing is that Project Kingdoms, the next big thing from Crytek is 360 exclusive, so they wont hold back on this one

Why is it when things arent going the right way for some around here they whip out stuff like obviously bad cherry picked pictures and teh RRod?