Destructoid: And you wonder why developers 'hate' PC gamers.

not really, no.

Zorgax

Good luck with proving that then ;)

I know people who pirate theoccasionalgame, as I'm sure most of us do. They're not inherently bad people. They're not evil master criminals. They are, however, the reason why the PC market is so easily disregarded by the majority of publishers. PC gamers sit back and complain about howBulletstormis only getting a console demo, or how a roleplaying game has been "dumbed down" to make it simple enough for a controller. Who can honestly blame the publisher, though? If I were EA, I would actuallypullthe PC version ofCrysis 2right now.

I've tried to argue in the corner of pirates before, but screw it. It's not a corner that deserves to be fought in. I would, in fact, encourage developers to ignore the PC market altogether now. Sorry, but why should anybody support the platform? Sure, there are paying customers, and it would suck for them, but what kind of businessman would open a store in a city where stores are robbed multiple times a day? An idiotic businessman.

Link.

Harsh words.

Zune_HD

He is absolutely right that publishers have a right to be angry. However, I disagree with his final comment about opening a store in a place where stores are robbed every day. I am sure shoplifting does happen every single day everywhere. But stores still exist. Why? Because there are still shoppers willing to pay money for products instead of breaking the law.

I can see his point. Unlike retail stores, the number of people who pirate a game compared to buying it isn't the best ratio. In many cases, there may be more pirates than actual customers. But there are still customers.

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

Sounds like something a pirate would say...

N30F3N1X

"He's not hellbent so it's mandatory he's a pirate"?

Sounds like something an ignorant would say. There's a thing called "spectrum", very few things in the world are either black or white. And this isn't one of them.

People who are passionate against piracy are ignorant.

What the hell am I reading.

[QUOTE="killzonexbox"]

[QUOTE="agpickle"]

Yep, because all PC gamers are filthy pirates. :roll:

Easyle

So its pirates fault that crysis 2 got leaked from an inside studio and decided that their previous high sucess was not good enough and decided to devolve and turn crysis 2 into a cheapy multiplatform port that has NOTHING of what reminded the first game like say graphics and proper pc gameplay design?

Honestly, you cant expect pc gamers to lower their standards out of the blue to a cheapy console port and buy it just like that like nothing happened with the threat that the company who made it will stop making pc games and blame piracy as an excuse.

We have the right to buy things we value and not whatever turd they try to pass us.

In this case i bet crytek refused to post pc footage so we wont see that the most capable pc game developer in this gen has devolved in the most obvious console port developer (judging by the pc demo) and loose sales over that.

Right now i am actually tempted to contact pirates and watch youtube videos in order to find wherever the leaked build is as bad as the demo and seek feedback from there.

I know that this is not about crysis 2 but i am just making an example of how in reallity game companies are greedy and ask too much from the pc community and ask for us to accept every crap that works well on their multiplatform selling model.

If you check wikepedia you will see that deus ex, a game that is considered one of the best pc games ever, has not sold that much. So Gamedevelopers are greedy and like to change market for the consoles and treat the hate and low sales from pc gamers as piracy when in reallity its the crap that they are making that discourage people from buying them. You cant buy a console port as a pc game and the 60 bucks enforced price for no reason does not help either.

People who are passionate against piracy are ignorant.

What the hell am I reading.

ImaPirate0202

"Passionate"? You mean "overzealous", perhaps.

You're saying that anyone who even remotely thinks of not giving death sentence to pirates, must be a pirate, so who's the one who should say "What the hell am I reading", precisely?

Would the word naive fit your case better, I wonder?

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

People who are passionate against piracy are ignorant.

What the hell am I reading.

N30F3N1X

"Passionate"? You mean "overzealous", perhaps.

You're saying that anyone who even remotely thinks of not giving death sentence to pirates, must be a pirate, so who's the one who should say "What the hell am I reading", precisely?

Would the word naive fit your case better, I wonder?

Death sentence? I'm going to assume you're trolling now.

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

People who are passionate against piracy are ignorant.

What the hell am I reading.

ImaPirate0202

"Passionate"? You mean "overzealous", perhaps.

You're saying that anyone who even remotely thinks of not giving death sentence to pirates, must be a pirate, so who's the one who should say "What the hell am I reading", precisely?

Would the word naive fit your case better, I wonder?

Death sentence? I'm going to assume you're trolling now.

This was about the Crytek beta. How is it PC gamers fault that someone from Crytek leaked the beta? I mean honestly?

Second, nobody downloaded the beta.http://torrentfreak.com/crysis-2-leak-fails-to-result-in-massive-download-fest-110213/

Did you read the article? He says he would pull Crysis 2 PC version, BECAUSE SOMEONE ON THEIR SIDE LEAKED THE BETA.

Do you see any sense here?

This is the worst journalisam i have ever seen.

Death sentence? I'm going to assume you're trolling now.

ImaPirate0202

Anyone with even the lowest grade of education would understand it's an obvious exageration.

If anything, you're the one trolling, considering you ignored my whole point just by assuming that you accusing me of trolling somehow entitles you to be able to keep silent.

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

Death sentence? I'm going to assume you're trolling now.

N30F3N1X

Anyone with even the lowest grade of education would understand it's an obvious exageration.

Just like somebody would miss the humor of my, "That sounds like something a pirate would say..." post.

[QUOTE="ImaPirate0202"]

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

"Passionate"? You mean "overzealous", perhaps.

You're saying that anyone who even remotely thinks of not giving death sentence to pirates, must be a pirate, so who's the one who should say "What the hell am I reading", precisely?

Would the word naive fit your case better, I wonder?

GeneralShowzer

Death sentence? I'm going to assume you're trolling now.

Sure I do, I think it's hilarious.

I don't like Jim Sterling one bit...I wanna break him:twisted:

Just like somebody would miss the humor of my, "That sounds like something a pirate would say..." post.

ImaPirate0202

Exposing the hipocrisy and inefficiency of this site's moderation rules is not something I find humorous, but rather depressing.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"][QUOTE="edidili"]

and now it sold. This is a strength of PC. Games keep on selling even after 10 years. Let's face it, 3.5 million copies is more than fine for an exclusive fps which lacked a good multiplayer.

sts106mat

MOST PIRATED GAMES 2010

PC Games:

1 Call of Duty: Black Ops (4,270,000)

2 Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (3,960,000)

3 Mafia 2 (3,550,000)

4 Mass Effect 2 (3,240,000)

5 Starcraft II (3,120,000)

Wii Games:

1 Super Mario Galaxy 2 (1,470,000)

2 Wii Party (1,220,000)

3 Donkey Kong Country Returns (920,000)

4 Kirbys Epic Yarn (880,000)

5 Red Steel 2 (850,000)

Xbox 360 Games:

1 Dante's Inferno (1,280,000)

2 Alan Wake (1,140,000)

3 Red Dead Redemption (1,060,000)

4 Halo Reach (990,000)

5 Call of Duty: Black Ops (930,000)

PC = 4x the piracy level, you can see why they get the hate, but all pirates are bad news .

Those numbers are only downloads, they dont include the guy at the end of every street who downloads the xbox 360 version once and then sells it for 4 quid a pop to every single kid that owns a 360 on his street. If each street has at least 5 kids who each own an XBOX 360 you could pretty much guarentee that those 5 kids would be buying the pirated games from the guy at the end of the street. So you should really multiply that 1.5mil downloads by at least 5 for a more accurate number, oh and then theres the used games market for console games...

This is the worst journalisam i have ever seen.

GeneralShowzer

It's very much an opinion piece, which is why Destructoid amoung a few other gaming sites actually stands out.

I can respect them and Sterling for that, they get discussions going and generally it's not a bad light read.

Not as good as it once was that Anthony Burch left for Gearbox.

[QUOTE="SkyWard20"]That doesn't mean economists can't make some pretty accurate estimates.DJ_Lae

[QUOTE="sts106mat"]

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] Alan Wake flopped miserably and was pirated more than it sold. Remedy may never recover from it. Crytek made good money from Crysis.pelvist

MOST PIRATED GAMES 2010

PC Games:

1 Call of Duty: Black Ops (4,270,000)

2 Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (3,960,000)

3 Mafia 2 (3,550,000)

4 Mass Effect 2 (3,240,000)

5 Starcraft II (3,120,000)

Wii Games:

1 Super Mario Galaxy 2 (1,470,000)

2 Wii Party (1,220,000)

3 Donkey Kong Country Returns (920,000)

4 Kirbys Epic Yarn (880,000)

5 Red Steel 2 (850,000)

Xbox 360 Games:

1 Dante's Inferno (1,280,000)

2 Alan Wake (1,140,000)

3 Red Dead Redemption (1,060,000)

4 Halo Reach (990,000)

5 Call of Duty: Black Ops (930,000)

PC = 4x the piracy level, you can see why they get the hate, but all pirates are bad news .

Those numbers are only downloads, they dont include the guy at the end of every street who downloads the xbox 360 version once and then sells it for 4 quid a pop to every single kid that owns a 360 on his street. If each street has at least 5 kids who each own an XBOX 360 you could pretty much guarentee that those 5 kids would be buying the pirated games from the guy at the end of the street. So you should really multiply that 1.5mil downloads by at least 5 for a more accurate number, oh and then theres the used games market for console games...

Furthermore consoles have the rental and used game service going.. Which steals quite a sum of money from the devs and publishers.. The fact of the matter is people need to stop using phantom figures of piracy.. We need to look at sales.. and as it stands sales are growing on the PC spectrum... And destruct on the second point are fools... He is complaining about trivial complaints, or ones that really should be complained about if you were a PC gamer and not a console game.. This guy from what I am looking at is a console gamer that is used to such restrictive measures..

Who is this blithering fool? Does he have any credence in the industry? NOPE.

Dynafrom

actually, most of you are. :|

Zorgax

Please explain the reasoning behind this, along with each of your sources that you derived this information from. I have a feeling that i'll be waiting a heck of a long time.

[QUOTE="agpickle"]

Yep, because all PC gamers are filthy pirates. :roll:

Zorgax

actually, most of you are. :|

[QUOTE="Zorgax"]

[QUOTE="agpickle"]

Yep, because all PC gamers are filthy pirates. :roll:

AdrianWerner

actually, most of you are. :|

Then I guess PC devs have all pulled out because they aren't making any money right? Oh wait.

I see all this uproar against "pirating" games online, but what about actual piracy? There are many, many shops that sell bootleg copies of games. When I last visited China, there was a store dedicated to it. 10 RMB per disk, doesn't matter what was on it. It wasn't just a few people there, it was actually pretty busy. Now imagine this thousandfold or more. This happens everywhere, in all the developing nations, hell even in some of the developed ones. What about the revenue lost there? I don't see people raging at that at all. Furthermore, the money gained goes into the hands of criminals. So again, where's the public outcry against actual piracy?rpgs_shall_rule

China is so corrupt when it comes to those things. They rip-off absolutely everything and just rename it. The worst part is that the government (military, same thing) protects them from prosecution from companies. This is where all the flash carts, ect for DS, 360, PS3 come from and they can't touch them because of these stupid laws.

So they blame whatever they can instead of the real problem.

LOL @ at the butt hurt hermits.XenogearsMaster

Criticizing a poorly written article, full of half-truths and assumptions is being butt-hurt?

LOL @ at the butt hurt hermits.XenogearsMaster

LOL at lowly, jelly console players and their non-industry pushing games.

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]LOL @ at the butt hurt hermits.ChubbyGuy40

LOL at lowly, jelly console players and their non-industry pushing games.

omg u pc gaeming elitist scum!!!111 y do u hermits always criticise us u meanie!

:P

China is so corrupt when it comes to those things. They rip-off absolutely everything and just rename it. The worst part is that the government (military, same thing) protects them from prosecution from companies. This is where all the flash carts, ect for DS, 360, PS3 come from and they can't touch them because of these stupid laws.

So they blame whatever they can instead of the real problem.

ChubbyGuy40

It's not just China though. My friend's seen bootleg games in Vietnam, as well as Japan, and that's usually considered a first world country. I've also heard of people talking about shops that sell these up here in Canada too; in flea markets and such in Vancouver and Toronto. The problem's worldwide, and I'd hazard a guess that it's more of a problem than so-called online piracy.

Also, I highly doubt China's central bureaucracy tries to protect pirates. They may have corrupted some local officials, but that's probably as far as it goes. I think it's probably more of a "I don't care, it affects Westerners anyways" attitude. Plus they have bigger issues than simple video game piracy.

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]LOL @ at the butt hurt hermits.lundy86_4

Criticizing a poorly written article, full of half-truths and assumptions is being butt-hurt?

Haven't you heard? Being positive about PC in any way automatically makes you a PC elitist, while disagreeing with that assessment in any way automatically makes you butthurt.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]LOL @ at the butt hurt hermits.rpgs_shall_rule

Criticizing a poorly written article, full of half-truths and assumptions is being butt-hurt?

Haven't you heard? Being positive about PC in any way automatically makes you a PC elitist, while disagreeing with that assessment in any way automatically makes you butthurt.

This is why I come to System Wars... Educate me System Warriors, I do not mean to be an elitist for bathing the PC in a somewhat positive light :o

:P

I see all this uproar against "pirating" games online, but what about actual piracy? There are many, many shops that sell bootleg copies of games. When I last visited China, there was a store dedicated to it. 10 RMB per disk, doesn't matter what was on it. It wasn't just a few people there, it was actually pretty busy. Now imagine this thousandfold or more. This happens everywhere, in all the developing nations, hell even in some of the developed ones. What about the revenue lost there? I don't see people raging at that at all. Furthermore, the money gained goes into the hands of criminals. So again, where's the public outcry against actual piracy?rpgs_shall_rule

When the average salary is $2 a day in a country, explain to me why any publisher would want to even sell legitimate units there? There isn't any money to be made which is why they don't even bother and frankly that's the right thing to do. You're actually going to chase someone who makes$2 a day about your lost wages that they couldn't even pay you if they wanted to? That's idiotic.

I see all this uproar against "pirating" games online, but what about actual piracy? There are many, many shops that sell bootleg copies of games. When I last visited China, there was a store dedicated to it. 10 RMB per disk, doesn't matter what was on it. It wasn't just a few people there, it was actually pretty busy. Now imagine this thousandfold or more. This happens everywhere, in all the developing nations, hell even in some of the developed ones. What about the revenue lost there? I don't see people raging at that at all. Furthermore, the money gained goes into the hands of criminals. So again, where's the public outcry against actual piracy?rpgs_shall_rule

The difference here is that if your store is constantly getting robbed you are losing physical merchandise that is expensive to replace. If your game gets pirated, you're not losing physical money to replace your stolen goods. This article is also stupid, once someone pirates they aren't going to buy your product, just focus on making your you capitalize on people who are willing to buy.

[QUOTE="rpgs_shall_rule"]I see all this uproar against "pirating" games online, but what about actual piracy? There are many, many shops that sell bootleg copies of games. When I last visited China, there was a store dedicated to it. 10 RMB per disk, doesn't matter what was on it. It wasn't just a few people there, it was actually pretty busy. Now imagine this thousandfold or more. This happens everywhere, in all the developing nations, hell even in some of the developed ones. What about the revenue lost there? I don't see people raging at that at all. Furthermore, the money gained goes into the hands of criminals. So again, where's the public outcry against actual piracy?Captain__Tripps

Some games such as Warcraft III, Counter-Strike 1.6, World of Warcraft, League of Legends etc. are insanely popular in Hong Kong.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="Zorgax"]

actually, most of you are. :|

xionvalkyrie

Then I guess PC devs have all pulled out because they aren't making any money right? Oh wait.

[QUOTE="rpgs_shall_rule"]I see all this uproar against "pirating" games online, but what about actual piracy? There are many, many shops that sell bootleg copies of games. When I last visited China, there was a store dedicated to it. 10 RMB per disk, doesn't matter what was on it. It wasn't just a few people there, it was actually pretty busy. Now imagine this thousandfold or more. This happens everywhere, in all the developing nations, hell even in some of the developed ones. What about the revenue lost there? I don't see people raging at that at all. Furthermore, the money gained goes into the hands of criminals. So again, where's the public outcry against actual piracy?ActicEdge

When the average salary is $2 a day in a country, explain to me why any publisher would want to even sell legitimate units there? There isn't any money to be made which is why they don't even bother and frankly that's the right thing to do. You're actually going to chase someone who makes$2 a day about your lost wages that they couldn't even pay you if they wanted to? That's idiotic.

I would say most of my family back in China are well off enough to buy video games if they wanted to. IIRC they're pretty middle class too, so most people in China can buy games legitimately.

Kind of funny how this thread, PC revenue up 19% based on studies, has dropped off the first page and yet the thread about a baseless and sensationalist article authored by a person notorious for baiting for website views is still on the front page. And now I see some people are agreeing with him!? It just shows PC haters take the first piece of negative information they see and run with it, no matter how biased and factually asinine it is. Truth be told, I wouldn't expect anything better.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]LOL @ at the butt hurt hermits.XenogearsMaster

Criticizing a poorly written article, full of half-truths and assumptions is being butt-hurt?

I disagree. I figured you would not come up with a more meaningful reply than that though.

It's cute when video game journalists try to be controversial. :lol:

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"][QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

Criticizing a poorly written article, full of half-truths and assumptions is being butt-hurt?

lundy86_4

I disagree. I figured you would not come up with a more meaningful reply than that though.

I know people who pirate theoccasionalgame, as I'm sure most of us do. They're not inherently bad people. They're not evil master criminals. They are, however, the reason why the PC market is so easily disregarded by the majority of publishers. PC gamers sit back and complain about howBulletstormis only getting a console demo, or how a roleplaying game has been "dumbed down" to make it simple enough for a controller. Who can honestly blame the publisher, though? If I were EA, I would actuallypullthe PC version ofCrysis 2right now.

I've tried to argue in the corner of pirates before, but screw it. It's not a corner that deserves to be fought in. I would, in fact, encourage developers to ignore the PC market altogether now. Sorry, but why should anybody support the platform? Sure, there are paying customers, and it would suck for them, but what kind of businessman would open a store in a city where stores are robbed multiple times a day? An idiotic businessman.

Link.

Harsh words.

Zune_HD

For Destructoid's argument's sake, I hope that EA is alergic to money.

Well, actually most of what the journalist said is true.

XenogearsMaster

He certainly makes some good points, but then veils them in half-truths and assumptions.

For example, his points about noble justifications was a good one, as i've seen the excuse before, "we pirate because the DRM is so bad". However it goes beyond one single reason for everything. There are usually multiple variables for the same situation. Now he states people clamor and claw over Crysis 2, but in terms of downloads of other games, the number was low. Furthermore, there is no evidence suggesting - one way or the other - that people will not by this game upon release. Remember, the "beta" leak was a buggy mess due to it being incomplete.

"Another popular response is, "I wasn't going to buy it anyway." Amazing, and a lie. If you weren't going to buy it, why the **** are you playing it? If there was no illegal way to get it, and you wanted it bad enough, you'd have paid. You're just being a cheap bastard, and you're too spineless to admit it."

^^^ Now the above quote is a failing in many arguments regarding piracy. We need to look at the idea of a "reasonable price" and what exactly that value is regarding people who download. There is no evidence that if you downloaded the game, you were going to buy it. So why does this "journalist" state this in such a resolute manner. There is no definitive proof on either side of the argument. If he wants to make this argument, why not provide proof or at least an indicator that he derives this statement from? This is because it doesn't exist.

---

Now, I am not condoning, nor defending piracy in any way, and I agree with what the author is trying to convey, however he needs to do this using evidence, something he has likely never heard of in his life. He takes anecdotes and applies it to a general population. How in sam Hell is that a good idea? Oft times, anecdotes don't translate well to a larger population due to there being way too many variables.

Now, note that I said half-truths. He does take what we take to be truths (though without evidence, I don't see how they could all be), and then simply veils them with a nice side of "assumption". If you want to write a meaningful and well-written article, provide sources for your points, and if you can't, then don't bother putting them in.

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]

Well, actually most of what the journalist said is true.

lundy86_4

He certainly makes some good points, but then veils them in half-truths and assumptions.

For example, his points about noble justifications was a good one, as i've seen the excuse before, "we pirate because the DRM is so bad". However it goes beyond one single reason for everything. There are usually multiple variables for the same situation. Now he states people clamor and claw over Crysis 2, but in terms of downloads of other games, the number was low. Furthermore, there is no evidence suggesting - one way or the other - that people will not by this game upon release. Remember, the "beta" leak was a buggy mess due to it being incomplete.

"Another popular response is, "I wasn't going to buy it anyway." Amazing, and a lie. If you weren't going to buy it, why the **** are you playing it? If there was no illegal way to get it, and you wanted it bad enough, you'd have paid. You're just being a cheap bastard, and you're too spineless to admit it."

^^^ Now the above quote is a failing in many arguments regarding piracy. We need to look at the idea of a "reasonable price" and what exactly that value is regarding people who download. There is no evidence that if you downloaded the game, you were going to buy it. So why does this "journalist" state this in such a resolute manner. There is no definitive proof on either side of the argument. If he wants to make this argument, why not provide proof or at least an indicator that he derives this statement from? This is because it doesn't exist.

---

Now, I am not condoning, nor defending piracy in any way, and I agree with what the author is trying to convey, however he needs to do this using evidence, something he has likely never heard of in his life. He takes anecdotes and applies it to a general population. How in sam Hell is that a good idea? Oft times, anecdotes don't translate well to a larger population due to there being way too many variables.

Now, note that I said half-truths. He does take what we take to be truths (though without evidence, I don't see how they could all be), and then simply veils them with a nice side of "assumption". If you want to write a meaningful and well-written article, provide sources for your points, and if you can't, then don't bother putting them in.

There's no hard evidence that piracy is even hurting PCs all that much.

Meanwhile Gabe is rolling around in piles of cash, destructoid may pirate the occasional game but I sure don't. when I can get great games for a couple of dollars off steam why would I bother.

There's no hard evidence that piracy is even hurting PCs all that much.

slothboyadvance

[QUOTE="slothboyadvance"]

There's no hard evidence that piracy is even hurting PCs all that much.

XenogearsMaster

[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"][QUOTE="slothboyadvance"]

There's no hard evidence that piracy is even hurting PCs all that much.

Captain__Tripps