Devs may start CANCELLING PS3 titles? OH SNAP.

Pretty good read, both make some interesting observations.  I would like to add that I imagine that MS has a strategic price drop planned. Looking at the PS3's 2007 line-up, they might be able to wait until 2008. They didn't bring up that variable in their equation.

[QUOTE="istreakforfood"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

[QUOTE="Eltroz"]Funny part is cows turned the thread from how PS3 really needs to start selling more to how many games 360 has sold. Hat tip to that trickDreams-Visions

I hope nobody brings the software attach ratios into the thread. that's where the truth is really troubling for the PS3 at present. some here have said most of the games are ports...but most of the early 360 games were ports of lastGen games, and they still sold.

PS3 owners need to start buying games, pronto. that's the only way devs will begin to feel confident in the platform.

its not fair to the consumers to buy games you dont like or already own to get 3rd party dev. support. basically donating money to sony(big corporation) to stay alive in gaming industry.

I mean...I don't know what else to say or suggest. Solid games like Motorstorm and Oblivion have yet to hit 1 million sold. Maybe they never will. Lair looks like Rogue Squadron with a little less fun and a fresh coat of paint. I feel like the fortunes of the franchise lay on R&C, Heavenly Sword and HOME this year. concerning.

 i apologize i wasnt clear enough. yea i know what you meant. kinda sucks that is like the only option that seems available atm. Never know heavenly sword or the other games might blow away and help sony in their sales.

[QUOTE="istreakforfood"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

[QUOTE="Eltroz"]Funny part is cows turned the thread from how PS3 really needs to start selling more to how many games 360 has sold. Hat tip to that trickDreams-Visions

I hope nobody brings the software attach ratios into the thread. that's where the truth is really troubling for the PS3 at present. some here have said most of the games are ports...but most of the early 360 games were ports of lastGen games, and they still sold.

PS3 owners need to start buying games, pronto. that's the only way devs will begin to feel confident in the platform.

its not fair to the consumers to buy games you dont like or already own to get 3rd party dev. support. basically donating money to sony(big corporation) to stay alive in gaming industry.

I mean...I don't know what else to say or suggest. Solid games like Motorstorm and Oblivion have yet to hit 1 million sold. Maybe they never will. Lair looks like Rogue Squadron with a little less fun and a fresh coat of paint. I feel like the fortunes of the franchise lay on R&C, Heavenly Sword and HOME this year. concerning.

Those two games you listed came out only a couple months ago.  I think people have an unrealistic image of the speed these next gen games hit one mill.  The 360s games were far from flying to 1 mill. at around the same time period available. 

Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.stuart69

 It is failing in Japan and NA, at the moment.

Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.stuart69

Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.stuart69

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Yes, but one dev doesn't = all devs. Unless we plan on suggesting that the end of his article negates the beginning? I don't see a contradiction; I just see Ubisoft speaking for Ubisoft.

Javy03

Yes and one or some industry exec. doesnt = all industry exec.  He gives no names for his sources or how many he spoke too.  He just names what he claims his souces say.  The whole post is opinion and faith with no fact because there are no listed sources to back up the claims made about support.  As we have seen every dev has a different opinion on support for a system and how much or little they will give.  That post over generalizing an entire industry is far from "fact". 

i agree the guy is just grasping.

[QUOTE="stuart69"]Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.joeblak

It is failing in Japan and NA, at the moment.

yet, at the moment it's selling quite well for a system with 0 exclusive AAA titles.

it'll sell pretty well when those come out. 

[QUOTE="stuart69"]Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.pundog

what major developers have dropped games that were not some lame port?

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="kage_53"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="flood"]

wow i love how the topic starter just seemed to acceidentally not include this

 

"Nevertheless, I don't think we'll see many third party games that are currently being developed for both PS3 and Xbox 360 drop their PS3 SKUs, even if Sony has multiple months under 100,000 units sold. The reason is threefold: Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot estimates the cost of a port adds just 10 percent to the cost of development; marketing budgets don't increase significantly with the addition of another SKU"

Javy03

I didn't neglect to include it. what I posted was what he's been hearing industry executives say. what you posted is simply his take on the matter. I didn't feel like his personal opinion was as significant as what he says industry execs have actually been saying, you know? I posted the FACT...not the OPINION.

Yes, but one dev doesn't = all devs. Unless we plan on suggesting that the end of his article negates the beginning? I don't see a contradiction; I just see Ubisoft speaking for Ubisoft.

Yes and one or some industry exec. doesnt = all industry exec. He gives no names for his sources or how many he spoke too. He just names what he claims his souces say. The whole post is opinion and faith with no fact because there are no listed sources to back up the claims made about support. As we have seen every dev has a different opinion on support for a system and how much or little they will give. That post over generalizing an entire industry is far from "fact".

I never said the entire industry was doing anything. you're overanalyzing my statements. He references "some 3rd party execs". clearly, the 3rd party execs he's talking about aren't the Ubi exec quoted earlier. Can we agree on that?

show me where I said that the entire industry is concerned. I was simply pointing out to you that unless we're going to argue that this guy contradicted himself in his article, the Ubisoft developer was speaking for Ubisoft and nobody else. And based on how most Ubisoft ports turn out (terrible), you can tell they only put forth about 10% worth of effort and love in doing their ports. Meanwhile, Bethesda worked a solid YEAR on their PS3 version of Oblivion, if not more.

don't put words in my mouth. I'm not putting words in yours.

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="stuart69"]Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.InfamousC

what major developers have dropped games that were not some lame port?

none.  but this isn't about the present; it's about what may happen in the future.   

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Yes, but one dev doesn't = all devs. Unless we plan on suggesting that the end of his article negates the beginning? I don't see a contradiction; I just see Ubisoft speaking for Ubisoft.

InfamousC

Yes and one or some industry exec. doesnt = all industry exec. He gives no names for his sources or how many he spoke too. He just names what he claims his souces say. The whole post is opinion and faith with no fact because there are no listed sources to back up the claims made about support. As we have seen every dev has a different opinion on support for a system and how much or little they will give. That post over generalizing an entire industry is far from "fact".

i agree the guy is just grasping.

am I?  Or do you see what you want to see?  Please...humor me.  Tell me that you believe the author of this article contradicted himself in his own writing.  I never said that the entire industry was doing anything.  I was simply pointing out that Ubisoft only speaks for Ubisoft.  

You could have seen that, had you opted to read for clarity. 

bu...bu... but teh bluray60fps1080p4drealtimeweaponchange!!1!!Kaosed

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="stuart69"]Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.InfamousC

what major developers have dropped games that were not some lame port?

[QUOTE="Javy03"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="kage_53"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="flood"]

wow i love how the topic starter just seemed to acceidentally not include this

 

"Nevertheless, I don't think we'll see many third party games that are currently being developed for both PS3 and Xbox 360 drop their PS3 SKUs, even if Sony has multiple months under 100,000 units sold. The reason is threefold: Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot estimates the cost of a port adds just 10 percent to the cost of development; marketing budgets don't increase significantly with the addition of another SKU"

Dreams-Visions

I didn't neglect to include it. what I posted was what he's been hearing industry executives say. what you posted is simply his take on the matter. I didn't feel like his personal opinion was as significant as what he says industry execs have actually been saying, you know? I posted the FACT...not the OPINION.

Yes, but one dev doesn't = all devs. Unless we plan on suggesting that the end of his article negates the beginning? I don't see a contradiction; I just see Ubisoft speaking for Ubisoft.

Yes and one or some industry exec. doesnt = all industry exec. He gives no names for his sources or how many he spoke too. He just names what he claims his souces say. The whole post is opinion and faith with no fact because there are no listed sources to back up the claims made about support. As we have seen every dev has a different opinion on support for a system and how much or little they will give. That post over generalizing an entire industry is far from "fact".

I never said the entire industry was doing anything. you're overanalyzing my statements. He references "some 3rd party execs". clearly, the 3rd party execs he's talking about aren't the Ubi exec quoted earlier. Can we agree on that?

show me where I said that the entire industry is concerned. I was simply pointing out to you that unless we're going to argue that this guy contradicted himself in his article, the Ubisoft developer was speaking for Ubisoft and nobody else. And based on how most Ubisoft ports turn out (terrible), you can tell they only put forth about 10% worth of effort and love in doing their ports. Meanwhile, Bethesda worked a solid YEAR on their PS3 version of Oblivion, if not more.

don't put words in my mouth. I'm not putting words in yours.

Actually you are putting words in my mouth, never did I mention what you said or that this is your opinion.  My comment was a comment on the article, not on your post.  I think you are reading to much into the article but again my statement never was geared towards your opinion but the entire article you are citing.

[QUOTE="InfamousC"]

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="stuart69"]Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.Dreams-Visions

what major developers have dropped games that were not some lame port?

none. but this isn't about the present; it's about what may happen in the future.

Exactly and as we have seen, man has been horrible with trying to predict the future and especially analysts and journalists cant make up their mind with some saying PS3 is gonna win and some being doomsday reporters.  Lets wait till the future becomes the present and analyze the info and facts we have not assume and comdemn. 

[QUOTE="InfamousC"]

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="stuart69"]Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.pundog

what major developers have dropped games that were not some lame port?

the games you mentioned aside from dmc4 are first generation ports. they were obviously rushed to market and ubisoft is taking its time with graw because ps3 version is getting extra maps and modes. 360 had some pretty bad ports from ea to in its first generation software and games were also pushed backed for it to. geow and oblivion were two high profile titles i remember being pushed back. so your point is mute your post just completly failed.

:o

Something written by Geoff Keighley in a N'Gai Croal article? That's two strong levels of credibility right there.
Between that and the issues third parties are dealing with mentioned later in the article, I'd say this is bad news for Sony. Because as a Nintendo fan, I can give you a pretty good idea what happens when 3rd parties abandon a console.

This is what happened to GCN last gen.superkoolstud

gamecube didnt have over 200 games in development before it launched last generation.

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="InfamousC"]

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="stuart69"]Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.InfamousC

what major developers have dropped games that were not some lame port?

the games you mentioned aside from dmc4 are first generation ports. they were obviously rushed to market and ubisoft is taking its time with graw because ps3 version is getting extra maps and modes. 360 had some pretty bad ports from ea to in its first generation software and games were also pushed backed for it to. geow and oblivion were two high profile titles i remember being pushed back. so your point is mute your post just completly failed.

Gears was never pushed back...its was always a 2006 title....and there was always a good chance it would be november which was the case in the end. I can agree with oblivion...but in the case of the ps3 with GRAW2....its getting ridiculous... 

[QUOTE="superkoolstud"]This is what happened to GCN last gen.InfamousC

gamecube didnt have over 200 games in development before it launched last generation.

yeah, but the industry was 5 years smaller then. You can't directly compare numbers across generations. Without actually having any proof, I would guess that the PS3 will eventually sell more than the SNES ever did, because the industry was smaller then. That doesn't mean the PS3 will be more successful than the SNES. 

How about if developers start working on multiplat games that don't suck on the PS3 so Sony can sell more PS3s? If they don't put out good games for it how can they expect people will buy the PS3 versions of the games and how can they expect more PS3s to be sold?

Multiplat game developers are just whining because they want Sony to pay for their games. Sony never did this before but since MS is probably doing it now they want Sony to do the same thing.

It's games that sell consoles, not consoles that sell games. Developers need to realise this.

Developers need to start releasing games and PS3's will sell.... i bought one there are no games other then resistance that i really wanna play.

-DarthVader-

Your logic is valid but I need to re-word your post show what would help the PS3.

Developers need to start releasing games that will sell the PS3!!!! Its not enough for the PS3 to simply have games, they already have a decent amount of software available!!!! Sony needs to have AAA SYSTEM SELLING GAMES available that clearly shows what Blu-ray and the Cell are all about, thats where the PS3 is falling behind. Getting inferior ports of multiplat games and exclusive titles ranging from good to horrible wont entice casual gamers to invest in the PS3. If the 360 or Wii were delayed and gave Sony a chance to stumble and regain its footing, the industry wouldnt question the future of the PS3. But since the Wii is a runaway success, and the 360 has plenty of AAA titles available, it shows how much ground was lost in Sonyland.

Game On...

This is to be expected.

When a company plans for the long term, they lose sight of the short term.  Things may pick up, but clearly Sony has already lost quite a bit of potential market share, so they won't see nearly as many exclusives as in the past. 

karicha9

this reminds me of how those bastards at Ubisoft are holding out on releasing RainBow 6 Vegas on Ps3.

Think of the FANS PEOPLE! 

IMO one thing that could have helped Sony a lot is if they had switched FF12 and GoW2 to PS3. Now I know that a lot of people would have been upset, and Nintendo has taken a lot of "Gamecube port" lumps from fanboys for TP and SPM, but I think both games have really helped Nintendo.

Sony needed some heavy hitter games and they had 2 just sitting there. Yes they've done great for PS2 and sold a ton of copies. They also boosted PS2 console sales. They would have boosted PS3 console sales too. Yes, PS# has some great games coming out in the future, but they need games to keep people interested now. FF sells, but everyone also knows that it take forever for the games to actually be produced. As a result, people don't expect FF13 until the ver end of 08 or more likely 09. That's 2-3 years after PS3 launch to think about getting the system. If PS3 had FF12, even if it didn't max out the hardware, it'd still be a compelling reason for some to buy the system.

[QUOTE=""] And we both know the sales need to pick up, pronto--especially if Sony wants to keep third party interest. Already third party executives are telling me that if PS3 sales stay below 100k for 3 consecutive months, PS3 SKUs may start disappearing from release lists and in turn create a wealth of de-facto exclusives for the Xbox 360.Sony could stem the tide by supporting third parties financially with co-marketing for exclusivity (or even buying an exclusive window on a game), but I continue to hear tales of Sony expressing a lack of interest in securing third party exclusives.Dreams-Visions

Link.

"Woah" if true. Seems a bit premature, but not totally suprising. Devs are pouring hella money into developing nextGen games...and if Namco's statement of "we need to sell 500,000 copies to turn a profit" is a litmus for the number of copies of games that devs need to sell in order to break even on their PS3 investment, then it makes sense that devs would begin to cut their losses before they lose anymore money. A scary possibility...but is the PS3 venturing into the dangerous ground of becoming too risky for some (and maybe many) devs to dare to venture into?

Discuss.

Edit: and before the Cows start freaking out about this guy, a couple notes:

1. This guy always came off as a PlayStation fanboy. Back in November, I distinctly remember him writing about how Resistance put Gears of War to shame and how Genji looked graphically better than Gears. He's not an anti-Playstation guy.
2. He's citing industry types.
3. Geoff Keighly and N'Gai Croal > the vast majority of forum posters, analysts, and blog journalists.

If I recall correctly, Call of Duty was the 360's first million seller game and it wasn't until August 2006 that it achieved this. Developers still made games for the 360 inspite of this.
SergeantSnitch

That is because 360 was the only console out. Now devs have a choice, go with the 360 which NOW has 12 million user base or go with the PS3, which has far less. Before they had no options. They weren't going to stop producing games, and the 360 was the only available platform. Now, there is no reason for them to make games for the PS3 with the cost of their development/port time costing so much. I don't see this being as big of a problem if the PS3 was easier to develop for, because easier means cheaper. 

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="InfamousC"]

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="stuart69"]Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.InfamousC

what major developers have dropped games that were not some lame port?

the games you mentioned aside from dmc4 are first generation ports. they were obviously rushed to market and ubisoft is taking its time with graw because ps3 version is getting extra maps and modes. 360 had some pretty bad ports from ea to in its first generation software and games were also pushed backed for it to. geow and oblivion were two high profile titles i remember being pushed back. so your point is mute your post just completly failed.

so we are using blogs from people we didnt even knew existed as ownage now :? TC you used to be a respected poster in many people's eyes...Mandingo101

just because YOU haven't heard of him doesn't mean others havent. clearly you didn't read the notes at the end of the OP. and who are you to discuss who is and isn'trespected with your 150 posts? :lol:

I'll say it again: Geoff Keighly and N'Gai Croal > the vast majority of forum posters, analysts, and blog journalists.

[QUOTE="InfamousC"][QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="InfamousC"]

[QUOTE="pundog"][QUOTE="stuart69"]Do you really think that the PS3 will fail? Oh please.Mandingo101

what major developers have dropped games that were not some lame port?

the games you mentioned aside from dmc4 are first generation ports. they were obviously rushed to market and ubisoft is taking its time with graw because ps3 version is getting extra maps and modes. 360 had some pretty bad ports from ea to in its first generation software and games were also pushed backed for it to. geow and oblivion were two high profile titles i remember being pushed back. so your point is mute your post just completly failed.

That's what Sega said, as I recall.  Lemmings just regurgitated the comments. 

[QUOTE="Iyethar"][QUOTE="Javy03"]

Wii is a different console with a different audience and different games. Devs who make the same game on the PS3 and port it to the Wii have found failure like Call of Duty and Need for Speed and so far from what I have seen Call of Duty 4 excludes the Wii. The PS3 doesnt have to beat the DS or the Wii just like the PS2 didnt have to beat the GBA, they are different gaming machines with different games after a different audience. The PS3 sales will go up, trust me Japan is not just gonna play mini games and party games on the DS and Wii and ignore all the big games coming out to the PS3 like FFXIII, FFversus, RE5, GT, etc... This is a slow selling time during the year.

kage_53

FFXIII has the potential to drive the PS3 to GameCube levels of success in Japan. That's basically it - the entire PS3 library of software has been outsold by one title: Wii Sports.

Wii is the one relevant home console in Japan. The sooner you accept that, the happier you'll be.

 Mario 64 sold just below 12 million, 4 million really doesn't count for much.

so we are using blogs from people we didnt even knew existed as ownage now :? TC you used to be a respected poster in many people's eyes...Mandingo101

Ngai and Geoff are the 2 most respected journalists in the gaming industry and have always been pro-PS3. This is ownage. The TC is very respected here, and this post makes me respect him more.

so we are using blogs from people we didnt even knew existed as ownage now :? TC you used to be a respected poster in many people's eyes...Mandingo101

another dumb thread today. ps3 will end up with the most game sand the most exclusives soon. these threads are pretty worthless

ps3 will end up with the most games and the most exclusives soon

e20Dylan

What do you base that on? 

[QUOTE="e20Dylan"]

ps3 will end up with the most games and the most exclusives soon

cakeorrdeath

What do you base that on? 

how about the 208+ developers they have making games for the system.

[QUOTE="cakeorrdeath"][QUOTE="e20Dylan"]

ps3 will end up with the most games and the most exclusives soon

InfamousC

What do you base that on?

how about the 208+ developers they have making games for the system.

:shock: that's a lot of developers.  how many are making Wii games?  360 games? 

how about the 208+ developers they have making games for the system.

InfamousC

How many do Wii and 360 have?

[QUOTE="Mandingo101"]so we are using blogs from people we didnt even knew existed as ownage now :? TC you used to be a respected poster in many people's eyes...Dreams-Visions

just because YOU haven't heard of him doesn't mean others havent. clearly you didn't read the notes at the end of the OP. and who are you to discuss who is and isn'trespected with your 150 posts? :lol:

I'll say it again: Geoff Keighly and N'Gai Croal > the vast majority of forum posters, analysts, and blog journalists.