DirectX 11.2 Revealed, Exclusive to Windows 8 and Xbox One

[QUOTE="silversix_"]Ps4 been using this before even being createdronvalencia

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="silversix_"]Ps4 been using this before even being createdsilversix_

Why do you ask?

DX11.2's tiled resource was demo'ed on NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 and most likely a software implementation of it (Tier 1).

Read http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1760037&postcount=6797

NVIDIA GeForce Fermi/Kepler = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD VLIW5 DX11.0/VLIW4 = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD GCN = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.1.

Intel Ivybridge IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

Intel Haswell IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.???

[QUOTE="silversix_"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] AMD PRT is not new i.e. 7970 was released late December 2011. AMD PRT was designed for heterogeneous memory designs i.e. small fast memory pool with large slower memory pool.ronvalencia

Why do you ask?

DX11.2's tiled resource was demo'ed on NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 and most likely a software implementation of it (Tier 1).

Read http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1760037&postcount=6797

Tiled resources has two feature levels - the first requires DX11_0 hardware feature level as the base while the second tier requires DX11_1 feature level as the base.

NVIDIA GeForce Fermi/Kepler = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD VLIW5 DX11.0/VLIW4 = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD GCN = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.1.

Intel Ivybridge IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

Intel Haswell IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.???

it's only been a couple years since devs started dropping DX9. what makes anyone think DX11.2 will be important within the next years?BrunoBRS

If DX11.2 is scalable, as in a game can still work on DX11 then I can see it happening

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="silversix_"]Are you a bot???

silversix_

Why do you ask?

DX11.2's tiled resource was demo'ed on NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 and most likely a software implementation of it (Tier 1).

Read http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1760037&postcount=6797

Tiled resources has two feature levels - the first requires DX11_0 hardware feature level as the base while the second tier requires DX11_1 feature level as the base.

NVIDIA GeForce Fermi/Kepler = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD VLIW5 DX11.0/VLIW4 = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD GCN = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.1.

Intel Ivybridge IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

Intel Haswell IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.???

[QUOTE="silversix_"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

Why do you ask?

DX11.2's tiled resource was demo'ed on NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 and most likely a software implementation of it (Tier 1).

Read http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1760037&postcount=6797

Tiled resources has two feature levels - the first requires DX11_0 hardware feature level as the base while the second tier requires DX11_1 feature level as the base.

 

NVIDIA GeForce Fermi/Kepler = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD VLIW5 DX11.0/VLIW4 = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD GCN = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.1.

Intel Ivybridge IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

Intel Haswell IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.???

 

superclocked

its just spamming now

[QUOTE="superclocked"][QUOTE="silversix_"]Why do you always bring out benchmarks/1 million examples/links to everything? TALK NORMALLY!

Zaibach

its just spamming now

[QUOTE="ManatuBeard"]

Why are you people so bothered about DX11.2?

Its not like it is going to magically turn the 12CUs of the X1 GPU into 18, or the 5gb free ddr3 ram into 7gb gddr5. (or the 16 ROPs into 32)

In the end it doesnt matter...

ronvalencia

AMD PRT lessens the workloads for machines with heterogeneous memory speed designs i.e. it wasn't designed with PS4's unified memory design.

AMD PRT/DX11.2 would be important for PCs and X1 as both has heterogeneous memory speed designs.

Read NVIDIA's statement on this subject http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/06/26/higher-fidelity-graphics-with-less-memory-at-microsoft-build/

Amazing... MS has to make a PR move of everything...

Just because they release a new API version to improve the performance of the clusterfeck the X1 memory banks are, they have to announce it to the world...

Heterogeneous memory banks on PC are more limited by PCIe than by software controls.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

By keeping it Windows 8 only they ensure pretty much no pc games will be using it, thus giving no reason for upgrade even for people who are willing to do it for those new features

Rocker6

Well, I suppose they could try to pay off a few devs to make their games Win 8 exclusive, but I hope it doesn't get to that, it'd be a disaster like Halo 2 on Vista, they'd severely limit the install base, not many people would go so far to change an OS over a single game...

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="ManatuBeard"]

Why are you people so bothered about DX11.2?

Its not like it is going to magically turn the 12CUs of the X1 GPU into 18, or the 5gb free ddr3 ram into 7gb gddr5. (or the 16 ROPs into 32)

In the end it doesnt matter...

ManatuBeard

AMD PRT lessens the workloads for machines with heterogeneous memory speed designs i.e. it wasn't designed with PS4's unified memory design.

AMD PRT/DX11.2 would be important for PCs and X1 as both has heterogeneous memory speed designs.

Read NVIDIA's statement on this subject http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/06/26/higher-fidelity-graphics-with-less-memory-at-microsoft-build/

Amazing... MS has to make a PR move of everything...

Just because they release a new API version to improve the performance of the clusterfeck the X1 memory banks are, they have to announce it to the world...

Heterogeneous memory banks on PC are more limited by PCIe than by software controls.

MS's DX11.2 PR is backed by NVIDIA's PR.

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/06/26/higher-fidelity-graphics-with-less-memory-at-microsoft-build/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nvidiablog+(The+NVIDIA+Blog)

[QUOTE="ManatuBeard"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

AMD PRT lessens the workloads for machines with heterogeneous memory speed designs i.e. it wasn't designed with PS4's unified memory design.

 

AMD PRT/DX11.2 would be important for PCs and X1 as both has heterogeneous memory speed designs.

 

Read NVIDIA's statement on this subject http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/06/26/higher-fidelity-graphics-with-less-memory-at-microsoft-build/

ronvalencia

Amazing... MS has to make a PR move of everything...

Just because they release a new API version to improve the performance of the clusterfeck the X1 memory banks are, they have to announce it to the world...

Heterogeneous memory banks on PC are more limited by PCIe than by software controls.

MS's DX11.2 PR is backed by NVIDIA's PR.

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/06/26/higher-fidelity-graphics-with-less-memory-at-microsoft-build/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nvidiablog+(The+NVIDIA+Blog)

And that changes what i have said how?

How much support Nvidia has outside windows environment? not much...

Windows = MS, Nvidia = MS little bish

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="ManatuBeard"]

Amazing... MS has to make a PR move of everything...

Just because they release a new API version to improve the performance of the clusterfeck the X1 memory banks are, they have to announce it to the world...

Heterogeneous memory banks on PC are more limited by PCIe than by software controls.

ManatuBeard

MS's DX11.2 PR is backed by NVIDIA's PR.

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/06/26/higher-fidelity-graphics-with-less-memory-at-microsoft-build/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nvidiablog+(The+NVIDIA+Blog)

And that changes what i have said how?

How much support Nvidia has outside windows environment? not much...

Windows = MS, Nvidia = MS little bish

Software controls (such as DirectX) didn't expose AMD's PRT feature.

Btw, AMD's OpenGL PRT extensions are accessed via OpenGL's vendor specific extensions i.e. non-standard. AMD, Intel and NVIDIA haven't unified OpenGL's tile resource extensions.

It looks like you can't get your head beyond X1 vs PS4 wars.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="silversix_"]Are you a bot???

silversix_

Why do you ask?

DX11.2's tiled resource was demo'ed on NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 and most likely a software implementation of it (Tier 1).

Read http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1760037&postcount=6797

Tiled resources has two feature levels - the first requires DX11_0 hardware feature level as the base while the second tier requires DX11_1 feature level as the base.

NVIDIA GeForce Fermi/Kepler = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD VLIW5 DX11.0/VLIW4 = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD GCN = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.1.

Intel Ivybridge IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

Intel Haswell IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.???

Higher the number = better. It's not rocket science.

[QUOTE="superclocked"][QUOTE="silversix_"]Why do you always bring out benchmarks/1 million examples/links to everything? TALK NORMALLY!

Zaibach

its just spamming now

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

You mean OpenGL? Which is used by PS3/PS4 and probably the wii u?

way2funny

I mean, the reason DirectX is used is because its a more complete package, it has input libraries, libraries to display a canvas, etc. OpenGL is only for drawing. With OpenGL, you are able to "paint" but openGL does not give you the canvas in which you can "paint" on. So the downside is that OpenGL is more bare bones, which means more work on the side of the dev. But the upside is, you can easily port it to MANY other platforms if it is programmed right.

You could combine OpenGL with SDL (Simple DirectMedia Layer).

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

By keeping it Windows 8 only they ensure pretty much no pc games will be using it, thus giving no reason for upgrade even for people who are willing to do it for those new features

AdrianWerner

Well, I suppose they could try to pay off a few devs to make their games Win 8 exclusive, but I hope it doesn't get to that, it'd be a disaster like Halo 2 on Vista, they'd severely limit the install base, not many people would go so far to change an OS over a single game...

The only Windows 8 exclusivity I can see them buying is for the tablet/mobile phone versions

Alot of the "exclusive" features that comes with a new DirectX version is usually seen on consoles if it has the power. Like Tesselation. Polyphony runs that feature on the PS3's Cell, even though that is a DirectX feature.

There's absolutely no inherited issues with an unified memory architecture for it to run PRT, the technique may be designed for a split memory pool but that's because there was no PS4 at the time, in fact the technique could be even more efficient in an UMA environment. gpuking

Still not downgraing to Windows 8

BPoole96

Microsoft Windows 8 is already the most powerful os ever made. this is overkill. 

[QUOTE="BPoole96"]

Still not downgraing to Windows 8

fend_oblivion

[QUOTE="silversix_"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

Why do you ask?

DX11.2's tiled resource was demo'ed on NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 and most likely a software implementation of it (Tier 1).

Read http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1760037&postcount=6797

Tiled resources has two feature levels - the first requires DX11_0 hardware feature level as the base while the second tier requires DX11_1 feature level as the base.

NVIDIA GeForce Fermi/Kepler = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD VLIW5 DX11.0/VLIW4 = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

AMD Radeon HD GCN = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.1.

Intel Ivybridge IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.0.

Intel Haswell IGP = DirectX 11.1 Feature Level 11.???

superclocked

He's one of the dumbest posters on here, instead of using the information he needs to make a point, he piles in excessive information without any real point, and hopes we can read minds.

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"] Stranglehold on the PersonalComputer industry, in terms of gaming, due to the sheer lack of OGL games (most notable/only one I know of AAA example: Rage)

ronvalencia

I mean, the reason DirectX is used is because its a more complete package, it has input libraries, libraries to display a canvas, etc. OpenGL is only for drawing. With OpenGL, you are able to "paint" but openGL does not give you the canvas in which you can "paint" on. So the downside is that OpenGL is more bare bones, which means more work on the side of the dev. But the upside is, you can easily port it to MANY other platforms if it is programmed right.

You could combine OpenGL with SDL (Simple DirectMedia Layer).

You can use SDL, but SDL is really shitty, along with all the windows support, is why devs use directx. However I myself have been using C4 which uses opengl for graphics and on the windows side uses the directx input functionality and such.

[QUOTE="Mr720fan"]

well look for this to be a trend, 11.3 dx will be exclusive to the 8 x1 combo.    MSFT locking out the market, PS4 a generation behind.

lx_theo

[QUOTE="lx_theo"][QUOTE="Mr720fan"]

well look for this to be a trend, 11.3 dx will be exclusive to the 8 x1 combo.    MSFT locking out the market, PS4 a generation behind.

Murderstyle75

[QUOTE="Mr720fan"]

well look for this to be a trend, 11.3 dx will be exclusive to the 8 x1 combo.    MSFT locking out the market, PS4 a generation behind.

lx_theo

[QUOTE="Murderstyle75"][QUOTE="lx_theo"] Playstation doesn't even use DirectX, genius.faizan_faizan

Thats interesting then, because it would then support both directx and opengl. And it might not actually be directx, what it probably is, is that they provide the API for directx and have their own implementation, unless they are licensing it from microsoft or something. Id like to read more about it

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"][QUOTE="Murderstyle75"] Lol. He must be related to Einstein. Anyways, PS4 uses Playstation Shader Language "PSSL"way2funny

Thats interesting then, because it would then support both directx and opengl. And it might not actually be directx, what it probably is, is that they provide the API for directx and have their own implementation, unless they are licensing it from microsoft or something. Id like to read more about it

Ummmmmm... the presenter in that video clearly states that this is exclusive to Windows 8.1 machines and next generation consoles LIKE the Xbox One.

Never mentioned that this was exclusive to X1.

[QUOTE="lx_theo"][QUOTE="Mr720fan"]

well look for this to be a trend, 11.3 dx will be exclusive to the 8 x1 combo.    MSFT locking out the market, PS4 a generation behind.

Murderstyle75

[QUOTE="Zaibach"]

[QUOTE="superclocked"]lol, you have to do some reading about technology if you want to speak ron's language...superclocked

its just spamming now

Its not a matter of communication at all.

Do you know what the definition of insanity is? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

If you really think spamming the same graphs and charts ad nauseaum is a sign of intelligence or that it actually proves that he knows anything about anythign, you are mistaken

[QUOTE="way2funny"]

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"] I was arguing with a German last week about this particular discussion on another forum. He said that the PS4 uses DirectX, I stated the reasons why it wouldn't and the issues DirectX has on PC, such as, API overheads, draw calls and so forth. Then, he showed me this link: http://www.geek.com/games/sony-iimprove-directx-11-for-the-ps4-blu-ray-1544364/ And I lost the argument.faizan_faizan

Thats interesting then, because it would then support both directx and opengl. And it might not actually be directx, what it probably is, is that they provide the API for directx and have their own implementation, unless they are licensing it from microsoft or something. Id like to read more about it

Well one thing I know for sure, PS4 uses openGL. The question now is does PS4 support directX. Theres couple things that they could do, they couple implement the directX API with openGL calls, or they just iicensed it from microsoft. Both of which are plausable, however implemented the directx api with opengl calls could be quite a big headache.

Just the same as DX10.1, it never took off, and never gave anything superior.

lol ms trys to force another awful os on us

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"] I don't understand why Sony opted for DirectX anyway (If that link is true).fend_oblivion

I highly DOUBT they modified it, since its implementation is hidden, since its owned my microsoft. Like I said what most likely happened is that they implemented the directx api using opengl.

awesome stuff, watched the video, Microsoft offering this to every dev will surely make use of it. Another reason to own a XBO over a ps4.XBOunity

[QUOTE="lhughey"]

[QUOTE="harry_james_pot"]Well from what I'm seeing it seems to be all about more optimization, and not actual new features. Not worth suffering with windows 8 for.harry_james_pot

Win 8 is no different than win 7 from a usability perspective especially if you use the Win button on your keyboard then type in the name of the app you want to open. If you like to take the slow way of grabbing your mouse then going to the start menu then selecting your app, then yes it is a lil different (but win8 is after). Instead of opening a heirarchy of start menus folders, all your programs are flat.

Just ignore the windows 8 apologists, they're an even more extreme minority than the vista apologists.

Your gonna have to perform a lobotomy on me to get me on Windows 8.

Hardware overlay support is something that is already present-at least in some form-on PS3 and presumably on PS4 as well. WipEout HD did something like that years ago (dynamic resolution depending on available resources).

I'm curious how many of these features are actually relevant to games and aren't already present elsewhere, my guess would be not many and certainly none of these would appear to be a big enough deal to really change anything for Microsoft.

awesome stuff, watched the video, Microsoft offering this to every dev will surely make use of it. Another reason to own a XBO over a ps4.XBOunity

Depends on how you look at it. Would you use a DX code for your game which you know is exclusive to an OS that most people aren't using for obvious reasons?

EDIT: Level 1. 7 posts. Opinion invalid.

Um no there not anything to try and one up xboxDeathsmiles76

?

Dunno if this has already been posted, but Microsoft is pulling another DX10.  Sorry, Windows 7 users, potential PS4 owners, and, uh, Wii U owners. 

Five key features of DX11.2: 

 

- Hardware overlay support (Similar to Durangos display panes, allows the developer to render the 3d graphics of the app at lower than native resolution, while keeping 2d ui at native res composing the final frame at a native resolution). Developers can also target a framerate and let the gpu dynamically scales the 3d graphics to try to meet that criteria (basically dynamic resolution changing is now fully supported by the api)

- HSL shader linking. W8.1 store apps can compile shaders in runtime, so the behavior of the shaders can be dynamic. However compiling is slow, so this feature allows you to pre-compile shaders at build time and link them at runtime, this way you can create new dynamic shaders without the performance hit. Dynamics shaders could be used for instance for a game to test the performance of the device its going to run and modify to a simpler or a more complex version of the shader to maintain the best visual quality while maintaining the target framerate. Its also useful for building shader library dlls that can be shared among different projects and each app decides how to build their shaders from this library.

- Mappeable gpu buffers. This is great for compute scenarios with collaboration of the cpu and gpu. They provide api support for the cpu directly access the gpu memory without needing to copy the buffer back and forth. For 11.2 its going to be onlye for compute so its only buffers, not graphical objects.

- Low latency present API. Basically api support for the system to tell the app when its the best time to start rendering and showing the content on screen, to allow the shortest latency possible. By using this api they were able to reduce latency from 3 frames (at 60fps) to less than 1.

- Tiled Resources which is api support for hardware accelerated virtual texturing. Its basically hardware support for mega texturing.

princeofshapeir

1. Most developers don't like working on Windows 8 to build games. They will continue to do it on Windows 7, which means they will stick to DX 11.1 to ensure maximum compatibility.

2. The PS4 can produce all of the above-mentioned effects without DirectX and at lower API level with less bridging.