Do you think the wii is "winning" as many people say?

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

um...ok. im still waiting for an answer to my question

Stevo_the_gamer

SystemWars has voted on this before. We judge a system based on games not sales.

Actually, I think we voted for anarchy, not games.

hannah montana sells more records than audio slave at the moment. does that mean she is a better singer than chris cornell?

abercrombie and fitch sells millions of pre-ripped jeans for 70 bucks

mcdonalds sells millions of hamburgers

sales do not equal quality. usually, one correllates with the other, but by any means you would have to ignorant to think that just because something sells it's better than the other thing.

mistervengeance

People usually don't buy only ONE hamburger. Nor do they buy from only ONE artist, or only ONE clothing manufacturer. Such purchases are not investments, and therefore that argument is worthless and irrelevant. You'd be better to compare such purchases with game purchases. Oh, and lookit that, what games sell the most on an individual title basis? Overly hyped 360 games.

However, people DO generally buy only one television at a time, only one car at a time, only one PC at a time, just as they generally buy only one console at a time. In other words, when it comes to purchases of expensive "investment" items such as electronics, people tend to be much more scrutinizing, and you often see the products with the best balance of cost-vs-benefits rise to the top. They choose what best suits them, and people have overwhelmingly chosen the Wii.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

um...ok. im still waiting for an answer to my question

Stevo_the_gamer

SystemWars has voted on this before. We judge a system based on games not sales.

maybe i should give you a quick history of the discussion:

the other person said that the ps2 won because it had the most games AND the most sales. then he went on to claim the 360 winning so far.

my question was simple: by his logic, how is the 360 winning when it has the most games yet the lowest amount of sales.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="clembo1990"][QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="clembo1990"]

PS2 sold most AND had most games, thats why it won, we care about the games not the sales, correlation is not causality.

360 is currently winning, PS3 is the main competition.

clembo1990

if the ps2 'won' cause it had the most sales AND the most games, how do you figure the 360 to 'win' when it has the most games yet the least amount of sales?

:| well other than collecting dust what has wii done recently? 360 has the best games and most going for it. To gamers, 360 wins. To you, a potential shareholder in nintendo maybe, you can win precious precious money, but i for one do not care for backstabbers such as nintendo, they can kiss the fattest part of the collective hardcore gamer's arse for all i care, sell outs and dissapointing the hardcore, bad show, end of commas.

um...ok. im still waiting for an answer to my question

ok, i'll type it a little slower then .... I said we gamers care more for games than sales, to us, 360 is winning. Wii has not met the games side of the deal, so it is loosing here on SW for its extreme lack of 3rd party support for AAA titles and even 1st party franchises formerly AAAE and AAAAE not being shown the honor of a new game on wii because their dev team is working on a new wii sports title.0

Pretty simple really, if you read my opening statement you'd clearly see what i am getting at, but obviously it needed to be pointed out rather than left as assumed knowledge between co-operative and progressive human beings trying to discuss a topic.

perhaps my question was too complicated for you... let me break it down:

you said that the ps2 won because it had the most sales AND the most games...

how can the 360 be winning when it doesnt have the most sales?

now you are backtracking saying that sales dont matter, which is fine, but you didnt say anything like this in your original statement.

[QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

they both spin the numbers, but this graph proves 1 thing: that 3rd party games sell on the Wii

ogvampire

I can agree that they both have there own spins, but when compared to the 360, Wii software sales are doing poorly due to the fact that it has such a larger userbase.

when you sell so much, your attach rate will get skewed. just look at the ps2

as a whole though, Wii software is not as poor as some people make it seem:

http://kotaku.com/5010214/nintendo-wii-has-highest-software-sales-for-first-18-months

Key word there is first 18 months. What's relevent is all time. I think this is going to be the first time in system wars that people choose the console that did not sale the most, simply because "well nintendo sold the most, but microsoft had the most games" and it might justify it through sales numbers of 3rd party games, in that microsoft may not have won the sales war but did win the hearts and minds of gamers with their games.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

they both spin the numbers, but this graph proves 1 thing: that 3rd party games sell on the Wii

insanejedi

I can agree that they both have there own spins, but when compared to the 360, Wii software sales are doing poorly due to the fact that it has such a larger userbase.

when you sell so much, your attach rate will get skewed. just look at the ps2

as a whole though, Wii software is not as poor as some people make it seem:

http://kotaku.com/5010214/nintendo-wii-has-highest-software-sales-for-first-18-months

Key word there is first 18 months. What's relevent is all time. I think this is going to be the first time in system wars that people choose the console that did not sale the most, simply because "well nintendo sold the most, but microsoft had the most games" and it might justify it through sales numbers of 3rd party games, in that microsoft may not have won the sales war but did win the hearts and minds of gamers with their games.

WTF? Since when is "all time" relevant? Maybe at the definite end of the generation, but not while it's still in progress.

BTW, this will not be the first time that the console that did not sell the most "won," because the 360 isn't winning, the Wii is. All the 360 has "won" are the "hearts and minds" of a tiny minority of gamers who consider themselves "better" than other gamers.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

they both spin the numbers, but this graph proves 1 thing: that 3rd party games sell on the Wii

insanejedi

I can agree that they both have there own spins, but when compared to the 360, Wii software sales are doing poorly due to the fact that it has such a larger userbase.

when you sell so much, your attach rate will get skewed. just look at the ps2

as a whole though, Wii software is not as poor as some people make it seem:

http://kotaku.com/5010214/nintendo-wii-has-highest-software-sales-for-first-18-months

Key word there is first 18 months. What's relevent is all time. I think this is going to be the first time in system wars that people choose the console that did not sale the most, simply because "well nintendo sold the most, but microsoft had the most games" and it might justify it through sales numbers of 3rd party games, in that microsoft may not have won the sales war but did win the hearts and minds of gamers with their games.

well, yes, the keyword here is first 18 months. that article was published in May, 18 months after the launch of the Wii. that article is not spinning numbers in any way

[QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

they both spin the numbers, but this graph proves 1 thing: that 3rd party games sell on the Wii

ogvampire

I can agree that they both have there own spins, but when compared to the 360, Wii software sales are doing poorly due to the fact that it has such a larger userbase.

when you sell so much, your attach rate will get skewed. just look at the ps2

as a whole though, Wii software is not as poor as some people make it seem:

http://kotaku.com/5010214/nintendo-wii-has-highest-software-sales-for-first-18-months

I didnt say anything about the attach rate, and once again the first 18 months logic is flawed, 360 sold most of its software when all consoles were out and when developers begone to focus on the next gen systems, why would developers care how well the 360s software was selling during its first 18months when they were mostly supporting last gen systems. Selling half of the current competitions software even though your dominating in a userbase is not good anyway you spin it.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

they both spin the numbers, but this graph proves 1 thing: that 3rd party games sell on the Wii

insanejedi

I can agree that they both have there own spins, but when compared to the 360, Wii software sales are doing poorly due to the fact that it has such a larger userbase.

when you sell so much, your attach rate will get skewed. just look at the ps2

as a whole though, Wii software is not as poor as some people make it seem:

http://kotaku.com/5010214/nintendo-wii-has-highest-software-sales-for-first-18-months

Key word there is first 18 months. What's relevent is all time. I think this is going to be the first time in system wars that people choose the console that did not sale the most, simply because "well nintendo sold the most, but microsoft had the most games" and it might justify it through sales numbers of 3rd party games, in that microsoft may not have won the sales war but did win the hearts and minds of gamers with their games.

Well, considering that you have people like EA's CEO saying that they bet on the wrong horse and should have had more development for the Wii, I would say that his words probably carry a little more weight than yours... and this is from EA, a company that makes most of its revenues on the 360. Now why would they say that? It could be because they reported $100 million in losses in their fiscal reports.

[QUOTE="Stevo_the_gamer"]

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

um...ok. im still waiting for an answer to my question

Zhengi

SystemWars has voted on this before. We judge a system based on games not sales.

Actually, I think we voted for anarchy, not games.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"][QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

they both spin the numbers, but this graph proves 1 thing: that 3rd party games sell on the Wii

opex07

I can agree that they both have there own spins, but when compared to the 360, Wii software sales are doing poorly due to the fact that it has such a larger userbase.

when you sell so much, your attach rate will get skewed. just look at the ps2

as a whole though, Wii software is not as poor as some people make it seem:

http://kotaku.com/5010214/nintendo-wii-has-highest-software-sales-for-first-18-months

I didnt say anything about the attach rate, and once again the first 18 months logic is flawed, 360 sold most of its software when all consoles were out and when developers begone to focus on the next gen systems, why would developers care how well the 360 was selling during its first 18months when they were mostly supporting last gen systems. Selling half of the current competitions software even though your dominating in a userbase is not good anyway you spin it.

Huh? Where does it say that the Wii sold half the 360's software?

Huh? Where does it say that the Wii sold half the 360's software?

mjarantilla

http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-lying-about-third-party-dominance-microsoft-would-argue-so-99177.phtml

Edit: not sure if the link is still working try.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/microsoft-the-wii-third-party-game-story-is-not-a-pretty-one

or

http://gonintendo.com/?p=52214

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Huh? Where does it say that the Wii sold half the 360's software?

opex07

http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-lying-about-third-party-dominance-microsoft-would-argue-so-99177.phtml

Page Load Error. Your source is fake!

:P

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Huh? Where does it say that the Wii sold half the 360's software?

opex07

http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-lying-about-third-party-dominance-microsoft-would-argue-so-99177.phtml

[QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Huh? Where does it say that the Wii sold half the 360's software?

mjarantilla

http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-lying-about-third-party-dominance-microsoft-would-argue-so-99177.phtml

Page Load Error. Your source is fake!

:P

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/microsoft-the-wii-third-party-game-story-is-not-a-pretty-one

or

http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2008/08/11/microsoft-wii-third-party-sales-not-a-pretty-story/

or

http://gonintendo.com/?p=52214

pick one

EDIT: I think Destructoid is down or something.

[QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Huh? Where does it say that the Wii sold half the 360's software?

SER69

http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-lying-about-third-party-dominance-microsoft-would-argue-so-99177.phtml

does the link work for you? but anyways once again the first 19months logic is flawed why would Devs care how software was selling on the 360 at a point in which they were not supporting the 360 but instead they were supporting last gen systems. The 360 has dominated in software sales from the time the Wii and PS3 were released even though the Wii has a considerable larger userbase.

[QUOTE="SER69"][QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Huh? Where does it say that the Wii sold half the 360's software?

opex07

http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-lying-about-third-party-dominance-microsoft-would-argue-so-99177.phtml

does the link work for you? but anyways once again the first 19months logic is flawed why would Devs care how software was selling on the 360 at a point in which they were not supporting the 360 but instead they were supporting last gen systems. The 360 has dominated in software sales from the time the Wii and PS3 were released even though the Wii has a considerable larger userbase.

[QUOTE="mistervengeance"]

hannah montana sells more records than audio slave at the moment. does that mean she is a better singer than chris cornell?

abercrombie and fitch sells millions of pre-ripped jeans for 70 bucks

mcdonalds sells millions of hamburgers

sales do not equal quality. usually, one correllates with the other, but by any means you would have to ignorant to think that just because something sells it's better than the other thing.

mjarantilla

People usually don't buy only ONE hamburger. Nor do they buy from only ONE artist, or only ONE clothing manufacturer. Such purchases are not investments, and therefore that argument is worthless and irrelevant. You'd be better to compare such purchases with game purchases. Oh, and lookit that, what games sell the most on an individual title basis? Overly hyped 360 games.

However, people DO generally buy only one television at a time, only one car at a time, only one PC at a time, just as they generally buy only one console at a time. In other words, when it comes to purchases of expensive "investment" items such as electronics, people tend to be much more scrutinizing, and you often see the products with the best balance of cost-vs-benefits rise to the top. They choose what best suits them, and people have overwhelmingly chosen the Wii.

you're giving people too much credit. most people buy the wii because it's the cool thing to have right now, and it's cheap, not because the benefits outweigh the costs. these are the reasons that things in my earlier posts sell more than real quality products.

I honestly don't care....Who ever wins sales means nothing to me.

I always and will always go where the games that interest me more go.

I liked a gamecube over an XBOX(although I loved Halo and Ninja Gaiden) and obviousaly I thought the PS2 was the best purchase last gen.

I thought the N64 was as good as the PS1

and this gen no matter how much the Wii is winning, and no matter how much i have to hear "year of the PS3" I keep saying the 360 still has better games than both.

That is just how things work for me. Most of the time I have been lucky, the system i get the most enjoyment out of gets enough good games to keep me going.

Wii is probably the only system I have ever bought that I would honestly call bad, but even then this "bad" system has gotten me what is easily the 3rd best game this gen IMO(Mario Galaxy) and other great gems in Metroid Prime 3 and Brawl.

Nintendo 1st party will keep the Wii going for me in the end.

The only thing that your link proves is that the Xbox360 had a year head start.SER69

[QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="SER69"][QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Huh? Where does it say that the Wii sold half the 360's software?

SER69

http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-lying-about-third-party-dominance-microsoft-would-argue-so-99177.phtml

does the link work for you? but anyways once again the first 19months logic is flawed why would Devs care how software was selling on the 360 at a point in which they were not supporting the 360 but instead they were supporting last gen systems. The 360 has dominated in software sales from the time the Wii and PS3 were released even though the Wii has a considerable larger userbase.

from my link,

360 total software sales: 67,929,999

Wii total software sales: 33,394,311

PS3 total software sales: 19,976,325

-------------------------------------------

360 Software sales since the launch of the PS3 and Wii is 54,065,728, almost double that of the Wii.

[QUOTE="mjarantilla"][QUOTE="mistervengeance"]

hannah montana sells more records than audio slave at the moment. does that mean she is a better singer than chris cornell?

abercrombie and fitch sells millions of pre-ripped jeans for 70 bucks

mcdonalds sells millions of hamburgers

sales do not equal quality. usually, one correllates with the other, but by any means you would have to ignorant to think that just because something sells it's better than the other thing.

mistervengeance

People usually don't buy only ONE hamburger. Nor do they buy from only ONE artist, or only ONE clothing manufacturer. Such purchases are not investments, and therefore that argument is worthless and irrelevant. You'd be better to compare such purchases with game purchases. Oh, and lookit that, what games sell the most on an individual title basis? Overly hyped 360 games.

However, people DO generally buy only one television at a time, only one car at a time, only one PC at a time, just as they generally buy only one console at a time. In other words, when it comes to purchases of expensive "investment" items such as electronics, people tend to be much more scrutinizing, and you often see the products with the best balance of cost-vs-benefits rise to the top. They choose what best suits them, and people have overwhelmingly chosen the Wii.

you're giving people too much credit. most people buy the wii because it's the cool thing to have right now, and it's cheap, not because the benefits outweigh the costs. these are the reasons that things in my earlier posts sell more than real quality products.

First, YOU are not giving them enough credit. People know what's good for them better than you do, especially with something like personal entertainment.

Second, being cheap IS one of the benefits. Or do you think that cost should never be factored into investment purchases? That's why they are called "investments."

Third, "being cool" is definitely another benefit, especially when you consider the social nature of most Wii gaming. I'll bet one of the big reasons why people buy the Wii is so that other people will come over to play it with them. Why, then, should "being the cool thing to have right now" NOT be considered a positive quality of the Wii?

Fourth, unless you can prove that 99% of the people who buy Hannah Montana would never buy Audioslave, or 99% of the people who buy McDonalds would never buy any other kind of food, then your comparisons are still worthless. There is a fundamental difference in someone's decision-making when it comes to buying consumable, frequently replaced products like music, clothing, and food, compared to when they are buying expensive, long-lasting appliance products like electronics.

[QUOTE="SER69"]The only thing that your link proves is that the Xbox360 had a year head start.Teufelhuhn

Why is that significant? I can understand the relevance of attach ratio (game units sold per console units sold), but where's the relevance in console units sold per title?

[QUOTE="SER69"][QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="SER69"][QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="mjarantilla"]

Huh? Where does it say that the Wii sold half the 360's software?

opex07

http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-lying-about-third-party-dominance-microsoft-would-argue-so-99177.phtml

does the link work for you? but anyways once again the first 19months logic is flawed why would Devs care how software was selling on the 360 at a point in which they were not supporting the 360 but instead they were supporting last gen systems. The 360 has dominated in software sales from the time the Wii and PS3 were released even though the Wii has a considerable larger userbase.

from my link,

360 total software sales: 67,929,999

Wii total software sales: 33,394,311

PS3 total software sales: 19,976,325

-------------------------------------------

360 Software sales since the launch of the PS3 and Wii is 54,065,728, almost double that of the Wii.

....and with launch dates aligned.

-chart-

....and with launch dates aligned.

SER69

Your stating to go in circles now so Ill just quote what I answered you the first time you said the same exact thing.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now... align realease dates..... see?SER69

does the link work for you? but anyways once again the first 19months logic is flawed why would Devs care how software was selling on the 360 at a point in which they were not supporting the 360 but instead they were supporting last gen systems. The 360 has dominated in software sales from the time the Wii and PS3 were released even though the Wii has a considerable larger userbase.

....and with launch dates aligned.

SER69

Now THAT is confusing. I associate blue with Sony, and red with Nintendo, so for a second I thought something was wrong with the chart.:P

from my link,

360 total software sales: 67,929,999

Wii total software sales: 33,394,311

PS3 total software sales: 19,976,325

-------------------------------------------

360 Software sales since the launch of the PS3 and Wii is 54,065,728, almost double that of the Wii.

opex07

heh. since when is 54 million almost double that of 33 million. you must be using MS math :P

heh. since when is 54 million almost double of 33 million (33 x 2 = 66, 11 million difference is not 'almost double')

ogvampire

does that really matter? Your nitpicking at best.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

heh. since when is 54 million almost double of 33 million (33 x 2 = 66, 11 million difference is not 'almost double')

opex07

does that really matter? Your nitpicking at best.

No he's not. You're exaggerating your numbers by claiming "almost double." A more accurate statement you could've used was, "Over one-and-a-half times as many as the Wii."

Why are we even debating sales ???

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

[QUOTE="opex07"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

heh. since when is 54 million almost double of 33 million (33 x 2 = 66, 11 million difference is not 'almost double')

mjarantilla

does that really matter? Your nitpicking at best.

No he's not. You're exaggerating your numbers by claiming "almost double." A more accurate statement you could've used was, "Over one-and-a-half times as many as the Wii."

Im not the one that made the claim its in the article, but anyways yes its nitpicking it doesnt change a thing, Wii is still way behind the 360 in terms of software sales, stating its double or not doesnt effect the argument in anyway especially since I included the numbers.

nitpicking- To be concerned with or find fault with insignificant details

why are we even debating sales.

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

angelkimne

They're debating sales because that's all they've got, not trying to bash the Wii, but out of the 3 consoles, it obviously has the weakest library.

Why are we even debating sales ???

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

angelkimne

[QUOTE="angelkimne"]

Why are we even debating sales ???

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

SER69

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

heh. since when is 54 million almost double of 33 million (33 x 2 = 66, 11 million difference is not 'almost double')

opex07

does that really matter? Your nitpicking at best.

nitpicking? you mean 'correcting'?

Why are we even debating sales ???

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

angelkimne

Because no one can determine what constitutes "best games." It's therefore a worthless unit of measurement. If the 360 has the "best games," then why aren't those games attracting more people to the console? Even with huge marketing budgets, movie trailers, billboards, television ads, and countless promotional spots in both mainstream and gaming publications, these games fail to attract a significant audience. Marketing + quality SHOULD guarantee widepsread acceptance (i.e. sales) for entertainment products, yet that isn't the case for 360 games.

Why are we even debating sales ???

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

angelkimne

the problem with that vote was that we only used GS scores... so the winner would only be a winner in SW, not in reality

i dont know about you, but i live in reality... not in SW

[QUOTE="SER69"][QUOTE="angelkimne"]

Why are we even debating sales ???

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

angelkimne

[QUOTE="angelkimne"][QUOTE="SER69"][QUOTE="angelkimne"]

Why are we even debating sales ???

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

SER69

my SW history is a little fuzzy. wasnt it after 'gerstmann-gate' that there was a new vote and anarchy won?

or did they decide to not honor that poll?

[QUOTE="SER69"][QUOTE="angelkimne"][QUOTE="SER69"][QUOTE="angelkimne"]

Why are we even debating sales ???

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

ogvampire

my SW history is a little fuzzy. wasnt it after 'gerstmann-gate' that there was a new vote and anarchy won?

[QUOTE="angelkimne"][QUOTE="SER69"][QUOTE="angelkimne"]

Why are we even debating sales ???

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

SER69

[QUOTE="angelkimne"]

Why are we even debating sales ???

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

ogvampire

the problem with that vote was that we only used GS scores... so the winner would only be a winner in SW, not in reality

i dont know about you, but i live in reality... not in SW

[QUOTE="angelkimne"]

Why are we even debating sales ???

As stevothegame says, we've had many polls on SW and decided that the 'winning' console is the one with the best games, not exclusives, not hardware sales and not software sales :|

mjarantilla

Because no one can determine what constitutes "best games." It's therefore a worthless unit of measurement. If the 360 has the "best games," then why aren't those games attracting more people to the console? Even with huge marketing budgets, movie trailers, billboards, television ads, and countless promotional spots in both mainstream and gaming publications, these games fail to attract a significant audience. Marketing + quality SHOULD guarantee widepsread acceptance (i.e. sales) for entertainment products, yet that isn't the case for 360 games.

[QUOTE="ogvampire"]

my SW history is a little fuzzy. wasnt it after 'gerstmann-gate' that there was a new vote and anarchy won?

SER69

my brother, who normally wouldn't touch a gaming console yet he plays pc games, bought a nintendo wii

i'd say they're performing on plan with their strategy, whether or not that involves winning the #1 spot

We could just use Metacritic.Com. and are you trying too say best games = best sales. Because that would be foolish imo.angelkimne

First, why should we use Metacritic? You'd just be further condensing an already restricted set of opinions to an even MORE restricted set of opinions that's even LESS likely to represent the greater opinion.

Second, what's foolish is best sales = best games. You're confusing the cause for the effect.

Third, that isn't what I said anyway. Reread what I said: "Marketing + quality SHOULD guarantee widepsread acceptance (i.e. sales) for entertainment products, yet that isn't the case for 360 games." The 360 keeps selling to the same audience, over and over and over. There is no audience expansion. That's not something you would see if the 360 really did have "the best games."

[QUOTE="SER69"][QUOTE="ogvampire"]

my SW history is a little fuzzy. wasnt it after 'gerstmann-gate' that there was a new vote and anarchy won?

angelkimne

Well tell me the point debating sales. They don't benefit us, and only barely affect us. And sales don't mean wii is the best console in real life, only the most successful.angelkimne

the point is you cant debate sales, they are fact. the winner should be proven with facts, not opinion.

also, how does arguing over game reviews benefit you in any way?

[QUOTE="angelkimne"]

We could just use Metacritic.Com. and are you trying too say best games = best sales. Because that would be foolish imo.mjarantilla

First, why should we use Metacritic? You'd just be further condensing an already restricted set of opinions to an even MORE restricted set of opinions that's even LESS likely to represent the greater opinion.

Second, what's foolish is best sales = best games. You're confusing the cause for the effect.

Third, that isn't what I said anyway. Reread what I said: "Marketing + quality SHOULD guarantee widepsread acceptance (i.e. sales) for entertainment products, yet that isn't the case for 360 games." The 360 keeps selling to the same audience, over and over and over. There is no audience expansion. That's not something you would see if the 360 really did have "the best games."

[QUOTE="angelkimne"]

Well tell me the point debating sales. They don't benefit us, and only barely affect us. And sales don't mean wii is the best console in real life, only the most successful.ogvampire

the point is you cant debate sales, they are fact. the winner should be proven with facts, not opinion.

also, how does arguing over game reviews benefit you in any way?

Like games benefit me.