Everything is said and done.

(Originally posted by ATrillionaire in the PS3 forums)

Posted by a developer on another forum who has worked with both the PS3 and the Xbox360:

"Cell is, as many of you know (and if you do skip this paragraph), a combination of a dual threaded PPU with 8 SPU's. The Cell within the ps3 is limited to 7 to bring yield up and a further 1.5SPU's are used by the system itself providing the "console" programmer with access to 5.5. If the proper system is used then 5.5 can actually be used.

Given 5.5 SPU's each with 256kb of memory on chip with zero latency the programmer is capable of essentially writing a script for an spu. That script will run with little or no input from the PPU. Consider this example running on the Xenon (xbox 360).

you want to render a character in the range of 20,000 polygons. He animates, he has advanced lighting, he uses morphing for his muscles & facial expression and he's being rendered in split screen. So we have

Morph Each Vert - on the CPU
Skin (animate) Each Vert - on the CPU


Render 20,000 polys for Viewport 0's shadow - directly on the GPU
Render 20,000 polys for Viewport 0's main - directly on the GPU

Render 20,000 polys for Viewport 1's shadow - directly on the GPU
Render 20,000 polys for Viewport 1's main - directly on the GPU

so from the "systems" point of view (POV) you've passed over the entire vertex set twice with progressively more complex systems. You then send that data to the GPU four times to render shadow & main viewport for each viewport.

Now consider that the system will normally not render faces we can't see (facing away). For an average model around 50% of the faces cannot be seen. Sadly a GPU cannot tell if a face can be seen or not until its actually processed the verts themselves.

If we assume each poly uses 3 new verts then we have the following data pattern.

2x60,000 verts processed on the CPU
4x20,000 polys rendered, touching 240,000 verts in the process - on the GPU.

factoring in that we can't see 50% of the faces we have

2x60,000 verts processed on the CPU
4x20,000 polys rendered, touching 240,000 verts in the process, rendering 4x10,000 polys.

120,000 vert processes on CPU
80,000 polys rendered using 240,000 vertex accesses.

The CPU has limitations. All its memory access goes through a shared L2 cache (1MB) meaning even if we move this process off to a different thread the execution of this code WILL both affect the other threads (Slow them down) AND be affected by other threads itself. In short it will be memory access bound across the board.

Further to that the GPU has to read each element of a vertex into its local cache before it can decide to render or not. Assume each read of a parameter takes 1 cycle, most polys use at least (Position, Normal, Binrm, UV's, Cols) so conservatively we'd be seeing 5 attributes read in... 5 cycles per vertex.'

These numbers are building.... in short its not a quick process.

Now - consider leveraging a single SPU to do this work.


Morph Each Vert - on an SPU
requires the data to be DMA'd in from main memory (zero cache problems)
Skin (animate) Each Vert - on the SPU at the same time
data is already in the local spu memory, no dma required, no cache issues

now consider that the spu itself is faster at executing vector code in general so the above processing without memory concerns is already at least twice as fast as the PPU on both machines. Factor in zero memory latency and what you end up with is the same process as 360, running twice the speed with zero memory issues and having zero affect on any and all other code running on the system - its quick.

It gets better.

The spu's are great at data processing as exemplified above. Previously we would have sent all 80,000 polys to the GPU for rendering BUT the spu's can help out here. We already stated that roughly 50% of the verts can't be seen as they face the wrong way.... the spu can remove these verts VERY quickly with no issues and no affect on any other system. So at the cost of a small amount of spu time we remove all the polys we cannot see and upload to the GPU only what actually needs to render.

Using this type of setup the SPU's can be used to help out the GPU. Because the SPU's are so versatile I would predict that within a few generations of games we'll start seeing graphics more advanced on ps3 than we will on 360.

SPU's are a very under-utilised element of ps3 in current gen games and those that do use them use them in almost niave ways; we will get better."

Read it and weep, Xbox 360 fanboys. LMAO!

:lol:

"The PS3 will prevail."

Unfortunately, this thread... will not. 

lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.Shad0ki11

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better. you're basically calling every poster on System Wars a fake gamer.

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.Warkunt

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better.

Debate?  Looks like a bunch of techno jargon to me. 

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

Warkunt

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

[QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

RossRichard

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

[QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

Warkunt

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

I really don't think you want to say that.

[QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

Warkunt

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

And how many "killer aps" does the PS3 have to date?

........ 

[QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

D0013ER

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

And how many "killer aps" does the PS3 have to date?

........ 

Now see what happened! LOL!:lol:

Don't have that much time, I'm in a match on Gears of War (So I couldn't read it all).

Yeah, the Cell is powerful, but devs say it's hard to work with and the fact it has a fixed memory between each SPU (IIRC? I don't know much about this stuff), it makes it (in certain cases) extremely inefficient.  It wasn't really built for gaming, but more for a home computer.
Saturos3091

you're in a match on Gears? why are you in system wars then? LOL.

read it all and understand why the PS3 has the edge.

[QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

D0013ER

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

And how many "killer aps" does the PS3 have to date?

........ 

Resistance definitely is one. Motorstorm and VF5 could be considered killer apps by some, as well.

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.Warkunt

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better. you're basically calling every poster on System Wars a fake gamer.

If we take the average bank account and withdraw $1000, we can buy many things. You can buy gum, shoes, baseball cards, condoms, computers, cars, prostitutes...The list goes on. But you can put that money to something useful and enjoy yourself while you're at it. Head to local Best Buy, march in, purchase Wii and 360, buy Oblivion, Zelda, Paper Mario, Gears of War... And go home, plug both in, have time of life.

Oh wait, that's not nonsense: It's logic. And sense. And stuff.

[QUOTE="Saturos3091"]Don't have that much time, I'm in a match on Gears of War (So I couldn't read it all).

Yeah, the Cell is powerful, but devs say it's hard to work with and the fact it has a fixed memory between each SPU (IIRC? I don't know much about this stuff), it makes it (in certain cases) extremely inefficient.  It wasn't really built for gaming, but more for a home computer.
Warkunt

you're in a match on Gears? why are you in system wars then? LOL.

read it all and understand why the PS3 has the edge.

Excuse me but didn't the Xbox have the edge on the PS2 and we all saw how that went!:P

[QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

D0013ER

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

And how many "killer aps" does the PS3 have to date?

........ 

do yourself a favor and research a bit. the PS3 has a lot more exclusives coming this year than the 360 had in an enitre year.

[QUOTE="D0013ER"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

Warkunt

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

And how many "killer aps" does the PS3 have to date?

........

do yourself a favor and research a bit. the PS3 has a lot more exclusives coming this year than the 360 had in an enitre year.

Er, we're talking about exclusives now? 

Wow, that was a gigantor wall of techno-babble that meant absolutely nothing to me. Thank you for proving once again that tech specs and graphical superiority do not lead to fun gaming. Nova_Mongoose

i'm here to stop the 360 forum trolls. "the 360 beats the ps3 in every way". those kinds of people. means nothing to you, but it means a lot to people that actually understand it.

[QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

Warkunt

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

Alright, you opened the can of worms. PDZ, PGR3, Kameo, Condemned, Oblivion (360 had it first, not counting PC), GRAW, FNR3 (same, last gen had it too but it sold well on 360), Dead Rising, Gears, Crackdown, Lost Planet, GRAW2, I know theres more but they are slipping my mind. Anyway say what you want but all of these games sold really, really well and due to those sales could be considered 'killer aps.'

We could talk about PS3 but that would be like kicking a dying man right in the nads. Just not right.

[QUOTE="Nova_Mongoose"]Wow, that was a gigantor wall of techno-babble that meant absolutely nothing to me. Thank you for proving once again that tech specs and graphical superiority do not lead to fun gaming. Warkunt

i'm here to stop the 360 forum trolls. "the 360 beats the ps3 in every way". those kinds of people. means nothing to you, but it means a lot to people that actually understand it.

Want to help stop trolls?  Here's a tip: don't become one, that's what got Keywii banned. 

[QUOTE="D0013ER"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

Warkunt

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

And how many "killer aps" does the PS3 have to date?

........ 

do yourself a favor and research a bit. the PS3 has a lot more exclusives coming this year than the 360 had in an enitre year.

[QUOTE="Warkunt"]

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.Pepperpop10

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better. you're basically calling every poster on System Wars a fake gamer.

If we take the average bank account and withdraw $1000, we can buy many things. You can buy gum, shoes, baseball cards, condoms, computers, cars, prostitutes...The list goes on. But you can put that money to something useful and enjoy yourself while you're at it. Head to local Best Buy, march in, purchase Wii and 360, buy Oblivion, Zelda, Paper Mario, Gears of War... And go home, plug both in, have time of life.

Oh wait, that's not nonsense: It's logic. And sense. And stuff.

if you aren't trying to prove something then why do you have the sales count of each new next-gen console in your signature? LOL! did you contradict yourself beyond belief there? because i think you did.

[QUOTE="Warkunt"]

[QUOTE="Nova_Mongoose"]Wow, that was a gigantor wall of techno-babble that meant absolutely nothing to me. Thank you for proving once again that tech specs and graphical superiority do not lead to fun gaming. D0013ER

i'm here to stop the 360 forum trolls. "the 360 beats the ps3 in every way". those kinds of people. means nothing to you, but it means a lot to people that actually understand it.

Want to help stop trolls?  Here's a tip: don't become one, that's what got Keywii banned. 

WORD!

[QUOTE="Nova_Mongoose"]Wow, that was a gigantor wall of techno-babble that meant absolutely nothing to me. Thank you for proving once again that tech specs and graphical superiority do not lead to fun gaming. Warkunt

i'm here to stop the 360 forum trolls. "the 360 beats the ps3 in every way". those kinds of people. means nothing to you, but it means a lot to people that actually understand it.

I understood enough to read that it is pointless. Cell has one general processor with 6 SPEs. All an SPE is a co-processor that has a specialized job. 360 has 3 general processors, that can do whatever the devs tell it to. Its apples and oranges. What really matters are the sales and the games. Sony just cant hang with the 360 in this department. At least not yet.

[QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="D0013ER"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

Pepperpop10

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

And how many "killer aps" does the PS3 have to date?

........ 

do yourself a favor and research a bit. the PS3 has a lot more exclusives coming this year than the 360 had in an enitre year.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25463542

i know you're about to drool all over yourself and cry when you're proved wrong. but it's ok, life moves on.

[QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.Warkunt

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better. you're basically calling every poster on System Wars a fake gamer.

If we take the average bank account and withdraw $1000, we can buy many things. You can buy gum, shoes, baseball cards, condoms, computers, cars, prostitutes...The list goes on. But you can put that money to something useful and enjoy yourself while you're at it. Head to local Best Buy, march in, purchase Wii and 360, buy Oblivion, Zelda, Paper Mario, Gears of War... And go home, plug both in, have time of life.

Oh wait, that's not nonsense: It's logic. And sense. And stuff.

if you aren't trying to prove something then why do you have the sales count of each new next-gen console in your signature? LOL! did you contradict yourself beyond belief there? because i think you did.

[QUOTE="Warkunt"]

[QUOTE="Nova_Mongoose"]Wow, that was a gigantor wall of techno-babble that meant absolutely nothing to me. Thank you for proving once again that tech specs and graphical superiority do not lead to fun gaming. RossRichard

i'm here to stop the 360 forum trolls. "the 360 beats the ps3 in every way". those kinds of people. means nothing to you, but it means a lot to people that actually understand it.

I understood enough to read that it is pointless. Cell has one general processor with 6 SPEs. All an SPE is a co-processor that has a specialized job. 360 has 3 general processors, that can do whatever the devs tell it to. Its apples and oranges. What really matters are the sales and the games. Sony just cant hang with the 360 in this department. At least not yet.

of course not yet. it's been out for 4-5 months. i don't need to know what's already obvious to me.

[QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="D0013ER"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

Warkunt

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

And how many "killer aps" does the PS3 have to date?

........ 

do yourself a favor and research a bit. the PS3 has a lot more exclusives coming this year than the 360 had in an enitre year.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25463542

i know you're about to drool all over yourself and cry when you're proved wrong. but it's ok, life moves on.

[QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.Pepperpop10

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better. you're basically calling every poster on System Wars a fake gamer.

If we take the average bank account and withdraw $1000, we can buy many things. You can buy gum, shoes, baseball cards, condoms, computers, cars, prostitutes...The list goes on. But you can put that money to something useful and enjoy yourself while you're at it. Head to local Best Buy, march in, purchase Wii and 360, buy Oblivion, Zelda, Paper Mario, Gears of War... And go home, plug both in, have time of life.

Oh wait, that's not nonsense: It's logic. And sense. And stuff.

if you aren't trying to prove something then why do you have the sales count of each new next-gen console in your signature? LOL! did you contradict yourself beyond belief there? because i think you did.

but you obviously said you didn't care? then went on to call yourself a real gamer just because you hate debates. what's this? what are you trying to say exactly? LOL. if you didn't care, you'd be in it for the games only right? not for the sales. tsk tsk. i'm only 15 years old and i just schooled someone older. such a pity.

Why didn't you answer my question? What make you think the PS3 is going to win over the 360 by just have better graphics if that were the case why didn't the old Xbox mop the floor with the PS2 then??

Your Logic Fails!!!:lol:

[QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.Warkunt

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better. you're basically calling every poster on System Wars a fake gamer.

If we take the average bank account and withdraw $1000, we can buy many things. You can buy gum, shoes, baseball cards, condoms, computers, cars, prostitutes...The list goes on. But you can put that money to something useful and enjoy yourself while you're at it. Head to local Best Buy, march in, purchase Wii and 360, buy Oblivion, Zelda, Paper Mario, Gears of War... And go home, plug both in, have time of life.

Oh wait, that's not nonsense: It's logic. And sense. And stuff.

if you aren't trying to prove something then why do you have the sales count of each new next-gen console in your signature? LOL! did you contradict yourself beyond belief there? because i think you did.

but you obviously said you didn't care? then went on to call yourself a real gamer just because you hate debates. what's this? what are you trying to say exactly? LOL. if you didn't care, you'd be in it for the games only right? not for the sales. tsk tsk. i'm only 15 years old and i just schooled someone older. such a pity.

[QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.Warkunt

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better. you're basically calling every poster on System Wars a fake gamer.

If we take the average bank account and withdraw $1000, we can buy many things. You can buy gum, shoes, baseball cards, condoms, computers, cars, prostitutes...The list goes on. But you can put that money to something useful and enjoy yourself while you're at it. Head to local Best Buy, march in, purchase Wii and 360, buy Oblivion, Zelda, Paper Mario, Gears of War... And go home, plug both in, have time of life.

Oh wait, that's not nonsense: It's logic. And sense. And stuff.

if you aren't trying to prove something then why do you have the sales count of each new next-gen console in your signature? LOL! did you contradict yourself beyond belief there? because i think you did.

but you obviously said you didn't care? then went on to call yourself a real gamer just because you hate debates. what's this? what are you trying to say exactly? LOL. if you didn't care, you'd be in it for the games only right? not for the sales. tsk tsk. i'm only 15 years old and i just schooled someone older. such a pity.

like Frank Boron would say "holy crap" you just owned that guy sick.

[QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.-Sir-Poof-

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better. you're basically calling every poster on System Wars a fake gamer.

If we take the average bank account and withdraw $1000, we can buy many things. You can buy gum, shoes, baseball cards, condoms, computers, cars, prostitutes...The list goes on. But you can put that money to something useful and enjoy yourself while you're at it. Head to local Best Buy, march in, purchase Wii and 360, buy Oblivion, Zelda, Paper Mario, Gears of War... And go home, plug both in, have time of life.

Oh wait, that's not nonsense: It's logic. And sense. And stuff.

if you aren't trying to prove something then why do you have the sales count of each new next-gen console in your signature? LOL! did you contradict yourself beyond belief there? because i think you did.

but you obviously said you didn't care? then went on to call yourself a real gamer just because you hate debates. what's this? what are you trying to say exactly? LOL. if you didn't care, you'd be in it for the games only right? not for the sales. tsk tsk. i'm only 15 years old and i just schooled someone older. such a pity.

like Frank Boron would say "holy crap" you just owned that guy sick.

[QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.Pepperpop10

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better. you're basically calling every poster on System Wars a fake gamer.

If we take the average bank account and withdraw $1000, we can buy many things. You can buy gum, shoes, baseball cards, condoms, computers, cars, prostitutes...The list goes on. But you can put that money to something useful and enjoy yourself while you're at it. Head to local Best Buy, march in, purchase Wii and 360, buy Oblivion, Zelda, Paper Mario, Gears of War... And go home, plug both in, have time of life.

Oh wait, that's not nonsense: It's logic. And sense. And stuff.

if you aren't trying to prove something then why do you have the sales count of each new next-gen console in your signature? LOL! did you contradict yourself beyond belief there? because i think you did.

the PS3 is getting its butt kicked by Wii60? the Wii is automatically out of the picture. it only sold that many because apparently it's some kind of fad. "it's cheap and it's next-gen so let me buy it wiiiii" and as far as the 360 goes, it's been out for over a year. DUH! and the PS3. 4-5 months out and it's expensive. and the real good games will come later so of course it's going to sell as much as it has. but stay tuned for what will happen pretty soon.

[QUOTE="-Sir-Poof-"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.Pepperpop10

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better. you're basically calling every poster on System Wars a fake gamer.

If we take the average bank account and withdraw $1000, we can buy many things. You can buy gum, shoes, baseball cards, condoms, computers, cars, prostitutes...The list goes on. But you can put that money to something useful and enjoy yourself while you're at it. Head to local Best Buy, march in, purchase Wii and 360, buy Oblivion, Zelda, Paper Mario, Gears of War... And go home, plug both in, have time of life.

Oh wait, that's not nonsense: It's logic. And sense. And stuff.

if you aren't trying to prove something then why do you have the sales count of each new next-gen console in your signature? LOL! did you contradict yourself beyond belief there? because i think you did.

but you obviously said you didn't care? then went on to call yourself a real gamer just because you hate debates. what's this? what are you trying to say exactly? LOL. if you didn't care, you'd be in it for the games only right? not for the sales. tsk tsk. i'm only 15 years old and i just schooled someone older. such a pity.

like Frank Boron would say "holy crap" you just owned that guy sick.

hey dont replay to me replay to the other guy.

[QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

RossRichard

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

Alright, you opened the can of worms. PDZ, PGR3, Kameo, Condemned, Oblivion (360 had it first, not counting PC), GRAW, FNR3 (same, last gen had it too but it sold well on 360), Dead Rising, Gears, Crackdown, Lost Planet, GRAW2, I know theres more but they are slipping my mind. Anyway say what you want but all of these games sold really, really well and due to those sales could be considered 'killer aps.'

We could talk about PS3 but that would be like kicking a dying man right in the nads. Just not right.

Hey Slime avatar guy, you were starting off so good. Respond to me, unless I owned you. Thats fine too.

Why didn't you answer my question? What make you think the PS3 is going to win over the 360 by just have better graphics if that were the case why didn't the old Xbox mop the floor with the PS2 then??

Your Logic Fails!!!:lol:

kingpoopa84

well the whole point of this thread is to prove that the PS3 prevails in system specs. and well, it already has more exclusives announced for this year than the 360 did in a year. exclusive = only the PS3 will get it. understand? the 360 stands for Gears of War right now. the PS3 stands for the future and more, original games. you'll see soon.

(Originally posted by ATrillionaire in the PS3 forums)

Posted by a developer on another forum who has worked with both the PS3 and the Xbox360:

"Cell is, as many of you know (and if you do skip this paragraph), a combination of a dual threaded PPU with 8 SPU's. The Cell within the ps3 is limited to 7 to bring yield up and a further 1.5SPU's are used by the system itself providing the "console" programmer with access to 5.5. If the proper system is used then 5.5 can actually be used.

Given 5.5 SPU's each with 256kb of memory on chip with zero latency the programmer is capable of essentially writing a script for an spu. That script will run with little or no input from the PPU. Consider this example running on the Xenon (xbox 360).

you want to render a character in the range of 20,000 polygons. He animates, he has advanced lighting, he uses morphing for his muscles & facial expression and he's being rendered in split screen. So we have

Morph Each Vert - on the CPU
Skin (animate) Each Vert - on the CPU


Render 20,000 polys for Viewport 0's shadow - directly on the GPU
Render 20,000 polys for Viewport 0's main - directly on the GPU

Render 20,000 polys for Viewport 1's shadow - directly on the GPU
Render 20,000 polys for Viewport 1's main - directly on the GPU

so from the "systems" point of view (POV) you've passed over the entire vertex set twice with progressively more complex systems. You then send that data to the GPU four times to render shadow & main viewport for each viewport.

Now consider that the system will normally not render faces we can't see (facing away). For an average model around 50% of the faces cannot be seen. Sadly a GPU cannot tell if a face can be seen or not until its actually processed the verts themselves.

If we assume each poly uses 3 new verts then we have the following data pattern.

2x60,000 verts processed on the CPU
4x20,000 polys rendered, touching 240,000 verts in the process - on the GPU.

factoring in that we can't see 50% of the faces we have

2x60,000 verts processed on the CPU
4x20,000 polys rendered, touching 240,000 verts in the process, rendering 4x10,000 polys.

120,000 vert processes on CPU
80,000 polys rendered using 240,000 vertex accesses.

The CPU has limitations. All its memory access goes through a shared L2 cache (1MB) meaning even if we move this process off to a different thread the execution of this code WILL both affect the other threads (Slow them down) AND be affected by other threads itself. In short it will be memory access bound across the board.

Further to that the GPU has to read each element of a vertex into its local cache before it can decide to render or not. Assume each read of a parameter takes 1 cycle, most polys use at least (Position, Normal, Binrm, UV's, Cols) so conservatively we'd be seeing 5 attributes read in... 5 cycles per vertex.'

These numbers are building.... in short its not a quick process.

Now - consider leveraging a single SPU to do this work.


Morph Each Vert - on an SPU
requires the data to be DMA'd in from main memory (zero cache problems)
Skin (animate) Each Vert - on the SPU at the same time
data is already in the local spu memory, no dma required, no cache issues

now consider that the spu itself is faster at executing vector code in general so the above processing without memory concerns is already at least twice as fast as the PPU on both machines. Factor in zero memory latency and what you end up with is the same process as 360, running twice the speed with zero memory issues and having zero affect on any and all other code running on the system - its quick.

It gets better.

The spu's are great at data processing as exemplified above. Previously we would have sent all 80,000 polys to the GPU for rendering BUT the spu's can help out here. We already stated that roughly 50% of the verts can't be seen as they face the wrong way.... the spu can remove these verts VERY quickly with no issues and no affect on any other system. So at the cost of a small amount of spu time we remove all the polys we cannot see and upload to the GPU only what actually needs to render.

Using this type of setup the SPU's can be used to help out the GPU. Because the SPU's are so versatile I would predict that within a few generations of games we'll start seeing graphics more advanced on ps3 than we will on 360.

SPU's are a very under-utilised element of ps3 in current gen games and those that do use them use them in almost niave ways; we will get better."

 

Read it and weep, Xbox 360 fanboys. LMAO!

:lol:

 

Warkunt

Owned! 

[QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="Pepperpop10"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]lol. There are so many people like you who post stuff like that just to justify their purchase. If you were a real gamer, you wouldn't care what anybody thinks of your choice of console.Warkunt

yah. and you're obviously here, on system wars, to debate aren't you? if you're not then maybe you're wasting your time. system wars is about debates. the sooner you understand that, the better. you're basically calling every poster on System Wars a fake gamer.

If we take the average bank account and withdraw $1000, we can buy many things. You can buy gum, shoes, baseball cards, condoms, computers, cars, prostitutes...The list goes on. But you can put that money to something useful and enjoy yourself while you're at it. Head to local Best Buy, march in, purchase Wii and 360, buy Oblivion, Zelda, Paper Mario, Gears of War... And go home, plug both in, have time of life.

Oh wait, that's not nonsense: It's logic. And sense. And stuff.

if you aren't trying to prove something then why do you have the sales count of each new next-gen console in your signature? LOL! did you contradict yourself beyond belief there? because i think you did.

the PS3 is getting its butt kicked by Wii60? the Wii is automatically out of the picture. it only sold that many because apparently it's some kind of fad. "it's cheap and it's next-gen so let me buy it wiiiii" and as far as the 360 goes, it's been out for over a year. DUH! and the PS3. 4-5 months out and it's expensive. and the real good games will come later so of course it's going to sell as much as it has. but stay tuned for what will happen pretty soon.

Why didn't you answer my question? What make you think the PS3 is going to win over the 360 by just have better graphics if that were the case why didn't the old Xbox mop the floor with the PS2 then??

Your Logic Fails!!!:lol:

kingpoopa84

Warkunt please answer my question. I HATE! HATE! HATE! being ignored!

[QUOTE="kingpoopa84"]

Why didn't you answer my question? What make you think the PS3 is going to win over the 360 by just have better graphics if that were the case why didn't the old Xbox mop the floor with the PS2 then??

Your Logic Fails!!!:lol:

Warkunt

well the whole point of this thread is to prove that the PS3 prevails in system specs. and well, it already has more exclusives announced for this year than the 360 did in a year. exclusive = only the PS3 will get it. understand? the 360 stands for Gears of War right now. the PS3 stands for the future and more, original games. you'll see soon.

[QUOTE="kingpoopa84"]

Why didn't you answer my question? What make you think the PS3 is going to win over the 360 by just have better graphics if that were the case why didn't the old Xbox mop the floor with the PS2 then??

Your Logic Fails!!!:lol:

kingpoopa84

Warkunt please answer my question. I HATE! HATE! HATE! being ignored!

He'll continue to ignore you because he doesn't want to except the truth.. The PS3 may be more powerful but that doesn't mean sht for games...  Look at all the companies jumping ship on the PS brand...  It doesn't seem like their too impressed with sony's "spec sheets"...  

[QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

RossRichard

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

Alright, you opened the can of worms. PDZ, PGR3, Kameo, Condemned, Oblivion (360 had it first, not counting PC), GRAW, FNR3 (same, last gen had it too but it sold well on 360), Dead Rising, Gears, Crackdown, Lost Planet, GRAW2, I know theres more but they are slipping my mind. Anyway say what you want but all of these games sold really, really well and due to those sales could be considered 'killer aps.'

We could talk about PS3 but that would be like kicking a dying man right in the nads. Just not right.

Hey Slime avatar guy, you were starting off so good. Respond to me, unless I owned you. Thats fine too.

i'm replying to a lot more people than you think. lol. calm down, i know you're desperate to get owned. didn't i link you already to the PS3 exclusives page? and no, not every game you mentioned sold really well. give some proof. the top selling game, and the only that i consider a real killer app on the 360 is Gears. the only excellent exclusive in an enitre year. amen.

[QUOTE="kingpoopa84"][QUOTE="kingpoopa84"]

Why didn't you answer my question? What make you think the PS3 is going to win over the 360 by just have better graphics if that were the case why didn't the old Xbox mop the floor with the PS2 then??

Your Logic Fails!!!:lol:

OhSnapitz

Warkunt please answer my question. I HATE! HATE! HATE! being ignored!

He'll continue to ignore you because he doesn't want to except the truth.. The PS3 may be more powerful but that doesn't mean sht for games...  Look at all the companies jumping ship on the PS brand...  It doesn't seem like their too impressed with sony's "spec sheets"...  

i'm not ignoring. this isn't an instand messenger. takes longer than that to reply to a bunch of 360 fanboys in denial. LOL! isn't it obvious?

[QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"][QUOTE="RossRichard"][QUOTE="Warkunt"]

Bunch of nonsense, trying to look smart

 

Warkunt

You dont understand a single word of that, do you? If you would, you would clearly see that is not ownage. Games and sales are what makes a good system. As of right now, PS3 cant compete in that area.

please. how many killer aps did the 360 get in one year? gears of war and what else..

*cricket cricket*

Alright, you opened the can of worms. PDZ, PGR3, Kameo, Condemned, Oblivion (360 had it first, not counting PC), GRAW, FNR3 (same, last gen had it too but it sold well on 360), Dead Rising, Gears, Crackdown, Lost Planet, GRAW2, I know theres more but they are slipping my mind. Anyway say what you want but all of these games sold really, really well and due to those sales could be considered 'killer aps.'

We could talk about PS3 but that would be like kicking a dying man right in the nads. Just not right.

Hey Slime avatar guy, you were starting off so good. Respond to me, unless I owned you. Thats fine too.

i'm replying to a lot more people than you think. lol. calm down, i know you're desperate to get owned. didn't i link you already to the PS3 exclusives page? and no, not every game you mentioned sold really well. give some proof. the top selling game, and the only that i consider a real killer app on the 360 is Gears. the only excellent exclusive in an enitre year. amen.