Face it: Halo 3 is a generic shooter.

Bioshock and crysis are not innovative..FlockofSpagheti

Oh my, how wrong you are.

[QUOTE="daqua_99"]Halo 3 will be a great game, but the only thing seperating it from Call of Duty will be the storyline, which many people who play it will ignore ... musicalmac

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]

What are we using as the basis of comparison when calling it a generic storyline?

TrueReligion_

In terms of originality or innovation. I know these two words are brought up alot here, and I hate to use them--but the fact is that Halo does not have a very original storyline. It does not innovate story-telling in any way. However, that does not mean Halo has a bad storyline. It does not mean Halo's story line isn't captivating or intriguing: the only thing is that it's not original; it brought nothing to the table storywise. People give Bungie too much credit for their storyline in Halo--it's definitely great, but it doesn't deserve all the praise people give it around here.

It's one of the best storylines of any FPS i've ever played. :| You're just blabbering nonsense now. It doesn't "innovate storytelling" so it's a generic story? So what do you want? All the cutscenes to play out in slow-motion? :?

Seriously, that's such a rediculous statement. If the storyline is deep, captivating and intriquing as you say - how is it generic? Surely a generic story would be the opposite?

Halo is a unique, incredibly deep universe. It's far from generic. Support your points with something which actually makes sense other than "innovative storyline" please.

Bungie SHOULD receive credit as they've taken a first-person-shooter and given it a storyline as deep as most RPGs.

[QUOTE="D0013ER"]

What are we using as the basis of comparison when calling it a generic storyline?

TrueReligion_

In terms of originality or innovation. I know these two words are brought up alot here, and I hate to use them--but the fact is that Halo does not have a very original storyline. It does not innovate story-telling in any way. However, that does not mean Halo has a bad storyline. It does not mean Halo's story line isn't captivating or intriguing: the only thing is that it's not original; it brought nothing to the table storywise. People give Bungie too much credit for their storyline in Halo--it's definitely great, but it doesn't deserve all the praise people give it around here.

That's...actually a much more logical answer than I was expecting, I can live with that. Though it sounds like most people find nothing wrong with a non-innovative story (and to a lesser extent, non-innovative games) as long as they're done right. In other words, it's not always about doing something different every time, but just doing something that's already been done before and doing it better...

Crysis doesn't innovate at all. At least Forge, Saved films and Equipment bring something new and innovate at the same time.braydee1234

all of those have been done before.....

but open ended and non-linnear shooters like crysis...with the most complete enviroment interaction to date....are rare.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Vox"]

Halo brought an epic storyline to the table. :| Honestly, i'm happy with that. Most FPS games have little storyline at all, and often the plot is simply an excuse to throw you into certain battlefields a la PDZ and Gears of War. Halo is a genuinely deep, expansive universe to get lost in however. You play to find out what happens next, not just to shoot stuff in the face.

Halo 2 also brought about an incredibly innovative matchmaking and party system which hasn't been matched to this day.

sonicare

Very well put. Most fps are far from innovaitve - the basic gameplay is very similar in a lot of them. But each of them have their own unique features, controls, and perks that help to separate them. Halo had a captivating storyline, unique universe, solid gameplay, good graphics, very good enemyand friendlyAI,excellent console controls, well done multiplayer, etc. etc. etc. All of that combined for an experience that was far from "generic." I've played very few shooters that were truly "innovative" -> how do you redefine the fps genre? But I've played many that, like halo, were well done.

Well it is. The aim of Halo 3 is basically to shoot almost everything that moves. That would be the same as (going back to my example) Call of Duty. The only differences in the game are associated with the storyline (ie setting, different weapons, graphics, ext) .... without a proper storyline the two games will be the same daqua_99

As would every shooter ever made. :|

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]Bioshock and crysis are not innovative..BioShockOwnz

Oh my, how wrong you are.

Look are opinion is not the problem. The problem is that you bring nothing to the table to support your opinion. You cant just sit there, and say something is generic because of what fanboys claim. You have not played the final release of the game. There for how you to know what kind of innovation, or new stuff it might bring? You should fix how you post then people wont bash you.

xscrapzx

You seem to be missing my point. I honestly don't care if people bash me or not. I wrote what I believed based on the preivews I have read and my experience with the series. I have recognized that the game may be very different from how it looks. But my point is STILL the same. Games dont have to be innovative. They just have to be fun. If anyone bashes me because, IMO, Halo 3 seems "generic" then they are ignorant and refuse to look at my point. It is okay to disagree with me. NinjaVox disagrees with me, but at least he can agree with my point, as opposed to the people who say "this thread fails!" or "Crysis is not innovative."

[QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]Bioshock and crysis are not innovative..smokeydabear076

Oh my, how wrong you are.

they seem to think that FPS/RPG hybrids have never been done before.

No need to get offensive. I never bashed Halo's storyline. All I said was that it isn't very original. I never said it was told in a poor manner. I'm a big Halo fan--and I've read all the books. There's no need to get but-hurt.

TrueReligion_

Point out the offense, by all means. :| It isn't a generic storyline; and as somebody else said, try looking the word up. You're throwing it around far too much and then end up eating your own words. You start by saying it's generic, you get challenged so you revert to "no it's awesome! just not original..."

So explain by all means how it isn't original. 'Cause it involves aliens? :roll:

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"][QUOTE="D0013ER"]

What are we using as the basis of comparison when calling it a generic storyline?

Ninja-Vox

In terms of originality or innovation. I know these two words are brought up alot here, and I hate to use them--but the fact is that Halo does not have a very original storyline. It does not innovate story-telling in any way. However, that does not mean Halo has a bad storyline. It does not mean Halo's story line isn't captivating or intriguing: the only thing is that it's not original; it brought nothing to the table storywise. People give Bungie too much credit for their storyline in Halo--it's definitely great, but it doesn't deserve all the praise people give it around here.

It's one of the best storylines of any FPS i've ever played. :| You're just blabbering nonsense now. It doesn't "innovate storytelling" so it's a generic story? So what do you want? All the cutscenes to play out in slow-motion? :?

Seriously, that's such a rediculous statement. If the storyline is deep, captivating and intriquing as you say - how is it generic? Surely a generic story would be the opposite?

Halo is a unique, incredibly deep universe. It's far from generic. Support your points with something which actually makes sense other than "innovative storyline" please.

Bungie SHOULD receive credit as they've taken a first-person-shooter and given it a storyline as deep as most RPGs.

I don't care if it's the most innovative FPS you played. It IS generic. stories can be generic, but still be captivating. You're argument is definitely flawed. Do you even know what generic means?

[QUOTE="sonicare"]Please expalin why crysis is so innovative.cobrax25

Its like Farcry...it may not be inovative....but open ended, non-linnear gameplay is not common in FPS's.

But it is linear, though.

No matter how to play the game, the story unfolds in the same way.

....... btw, what the hell is Crysis about, anyway? Freaking aliens again?

How many freaking alien games are we going to get?

Well it is. The aim of Halo 3 is basically to shoot almost everything that moves. That would be the same as (going back to my example) Call of Duty. The only differences in the game are associated with the storyline (ie setting, different weapons, graphics, ext) .... without a proper storyline the two games will be the same daqua_99

Um... through that train of thought, I can make it so that no game ever is innovative. If you distill the mechanics enough, you end up with a base for all games.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that you don't make a compelling argument... at all.

[QUOTE="daqua_99"]Well it is. The aim of Halo 3 is basically to shoot almost everything that moves. That would be the same as (going back to my example) Call of Duty. The only differences in the game are associated with the storyline (ie setting, different weapons, graphics, ext) .... without a proper storyline the two games will be the same Grive

Um... through that train of thought, I can make it so that no game ever is innovative. If you distill the mechanics enough, you end up with a base for all games.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that you don't make a compelling argument... at all.

Meh, all games are the same: press buttons, do stuff.

[QUOTE="cobrax25"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"]Please expalin why crysis is so innovative.Chloroformality

Its like Farcry...it may not be inovative....but open ended, non-linnear gameplay is not common in FPS's.

But it is linear, though.

No matter how to play the game, the story unfolds in the same way.

....... btw, what the hell is Crysis about, anyway? Freaking aliens again?

How many freaking alien games are we going to get?

Hasn't it been revealed that Crysis will have multiple endings depending on how you play? I am not sure, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that it has.

[QUOTE="cobrax25"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"]Please expalin why crysis is so innovative.Chloroformality

Its like Farcry...it may not be inovative....but open ended, non-linnear gameplay is not common in FPS's.

But it is linear, though.

No matter how to play the game, the story unfolds in the same way.

....... btw, what the hell is Crysis about, anyway? Freaking aliens again?

How many freaking alien games are we going to get?

the story is dynamic....it unfolds differently depending on what happens in the game.

I was reffering to the gameplay...like Farcry...crysis takes place all in one massive level that allows you to go anywhere whenever you want too, and approach situations differently from many different sides.

I don't care if it's the most innovative FPS you played. It IS generic. TrueReligion_

I don't care if it's the most innovative FPS you played. It IS generic. stories can be generic, but still be captivating. You're argument is definitely flawed. Do you even know what generic means?

TrueReligion_

Basically, you didn't respond to a single point i made and instead said "i dont care what you think it IS generic."

Great job. :)

Halo1 revolutionized FPS games, Halo 2 continued it, Halo 3 is going to improve upon it. Meanwhile, EVERY OTHER FPS in the world copied the core mechanics of Halo1 that made it stand out, and now it's become standard. Many cows and sheep forget this, and say Halo never brought anything new to the table. Fact is, Halo MADE the table.GanonBuRAP

Made the table? Absolutely not. Re-painted the table? Sure.

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]

I don't care if it's the most innovative FPS you played. It IS generic. stories can be generic, but still be captivating. You're argument is definitely flawed. Do you even know what generic means?

Ninja-Vox

Basically, you didn't respond to a single point i made and instead said "i dont care what you think it IS generic."

Great job. :)

Ever read "Ringworld" by Larry Niven? :|

...didn't think so.

Halo1 revolutionized FPS games, Halo 2 continued it, Halo 3 is going to improve upon it. Meanwhile, EVERY OTHER FPS in the world copied the core mechanics of Halo1 that made it stand out, and now it's become standard. Many cows and sheep forget this, and say Halo never brought anything new to the table. Fact is, Halo MADE the table.GanonBuRAP

Halo 1 revolutionized CONSOLE FPS games, Halo 2 didn't revolutionize anything at all (except maybe online), we have yet to see just what Halo 3 is going revolutionize, if anything at all.

Now that I think about it, Halo had some pretty cliched characters. You had the cigar-chomping, hard-as-nails, badass combat buddy who always had to say something witty (sergeant johnson)

the chief himself was kind of cliche, being a badass silent protagonist, he was neither intersting (in the games) nor mysterious. he was not mysterious because no one was encouraged to even ask questions (to themselves)about the cheif. he was just there.

I don't care if it's the most innovative FPS you played. It IS generic. stories can be generic, but still be captivating. You're argument is definitely flawed. Do you even know what generic means?

TrueReligion_

I'd love to know where i said it was the most innovative FPS i've ever played, too. :roll:

Ever read "Ringworld" by Larry Niven? :|

...didn't think so.

TrueReligion_

So the game is generic because it uses a well known concept for a space ecosystem, which also happens to be the most viable way to make one with our current understanding of technology.

I guess no game is innovative, then. All take place in planets!

the chief himself was kind of cliche, being a badass silent protagonist, he was neither intersting (in the games) nor mysterious. he was not mysterious because no one was encouraged to even ask questions (to themselves)about the cheif. he was just there.

Mordred19

Not to mention, by the time of the game, the MC is kind of a legend/hero amongst soldiers, and the Spartan project is known to exist. You can hear the reactions of soldiers when they meet you, and at the beginning of H2 Johnson tells you to basically put a show for the cameras.

Ever read "Ringworld" by Larry Niven? :|

...didn't think so.

TrueReligion_

Yes, i have. :| It's part of "bungie's guide to science fiction." Way to be arrogant though. ;)

All you did there was reference something which influenced Halo's conception, which is even freely pointed out by Bungie themselves. I guess that makes the storyline "generic" though, right?

Boy, for someone so opinionated you're really avoiding backing up any of your points.

[QUOTE="TrueReligion_"]

Ever read "Ringworld" by Larry Niven? :|

...didn't think so.

Grive

So the game is generic because it uses a well known concept for a space ecosystem, which also happens to be the most viable way to make one with our current understanding of technology.

I guess no game is innovative, then. All take place in planets!

Aw but dude, Halo took place in like... SPACE. Generic storylines for the loss man! :roll:

And you know what? There is nothing wrong with that. I hate it when lemmings claim Halo 3 to be the most innovative thing in the galaxy, but I also hate it when people (cows) say: "Oh it's not innovative. Therefore it sucks!" We can all admit that Halo 3 will bring nothing new to the table. But games don't have to. All games have to do is be fun. Moral of the story: Enjoys games for what they are. You want innovation? Play Bioshock or Crysis. You want straight up action? Play Halo 3 or Call of Duty. There's nothing wrong with either. organic_machine

All 4 of those games you listed look awesome in my opinion :D

[QUOTE="organic_machine"]And you know what? There is nothing wrong with that. I hate it when lemmings claim Halo 3 to be the most innovative thing in the galaxy, but I also hate it when people (cows) say: "Oh it's not innovative. Therefore it sucks!" We can all admit that Halo 3 will bring nothing new to the table. But games don't have to. All games have to do is be fun. Moral of the story: Enjoys games for what they are. You want innovation? Play Bioshock or Crysis. You want straight up action? Play Halo 3 or Call of Duty. There's nothing wrong with either. proud722

All 4 of those games you listed look awesome in my opinion :D

Exactly. Generic can be a really great thing. Games like Painkiller and Timesplitters have already proved this.

[QUOTE="braydee1234"]Crysis doesn't innovate at all. At least Forge, Saved films and Equipment bring something new and innovate at the same time.cobrax25

all of those have been done before.....

but open ended and non-linnear shooters like crysis...with the most complete enviroment interaction to date....are rare.

Everyone's saying Forge has been done before, maybe it is like Gmod but when was something like this ever in a game from shipment? it's new and no other shooter does it. Similar can be said for the saved films, what other shooter has that? I can only think of racing games that do the same.

Halo 1 revolutionized CONSOLE FPS games, Halo 2 didn't revolutionize anything at all (except maybe online), we have yet to see just what Halo 3 is going revolutionize, if anything at all.

Now that I think about it, Halo had some pretty cliched characters. You had the cigar-chomping, hard-as-nails, badass combat buddy who always had to say something witty (sergeant johnson)

the chief himself was kind of cliche, being a badass silent protagonist, he was neither intersting (in the games) nor mysterious. he was not mysterious because no one was encouraged to even ask questions (to themselves)about the cheif. he was just there.

Mordred19

I'm gonna have to disagree. Marcus Fenix is a hell of a generic character. Gears of War is a hell of a generic game. That would be a prime example of the sort of thing the TC is talking about, i think at least, whereby the game isn't remotely innovative, offers nothing new, has shreds of a storyline but is still fun. It doesn't need any of that to be good.

Halo is not Gears of War. It has a huge, expansive storyline and deep characters. The relationship between MC and Cortana is one theme running through the whole storyline, plus the idea of inevitable defeat and blind faith. There's a lot to the story and a lot to the characters, unlike gears, which could be summarised in a single sentence.

How can the lemmings settle for a generic gaming experience then what they could get from the PC?

[QUOTE="cobrax25"]

[QUOTE="braydee1234"]Crysis doesn't innovate at all. At least Forge, Saved films and Equipment bring something new and innovate at the same time.braydee1234

all of those have been done before.....

but open ended and non-linnear shooters like crysis...with the most complete enviroment interaction to date....are rare.

Everyone's saying Forge has been done before, maybe it is like Gmod but when was something like this ever in a game from shipment? it's new and no other shooter does it. Similar can be said for the saved films, what other shooter has that? I can only think of racing games that do the same.

GMOD has done it....what more could you want? and either way almost every PC game has a level editor.

every PC game also lets you take videos of the game.

Halo1 and 2are not generic shooters. Generic shootersdo not earn AAA ratings. Hell, they don't earn AA ratings. Based on this, I do not think Halo 3 will be generic either. Halo 3 may not be all that innovative, but what it doesdo, it does better than the average shooter, which is why it's so highly praised.The_Game21x

Please expalin why crysis is so innovative.sonicare

Crysis has the nano suit which allows you to change between strength, speed, invisibility and 2 others (can't remember now), allows you to customize your weapons pretty much anyway you want, has completely destructible environments, has realistice AI (if you start attacking their camp, they shoot off flares to call in help, or if you light their vehicle on fire they know to get out), you fight in zero-g conditions, and the multiplayer mode power struggle.

[QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax25"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"]Please expalin why crysis is so innovative.cobrax25

Its like Farcry...it may not be inovative....but open ended, non-linnear gameplay is not common in FPS's.

But it is linear, though.

No matter how to play the game, the story unfolds in the same way.

....... btw, what the hell is Crysis about, anyway? Freaking aliens again?

How many freaking alien games are we going to get?

the story is dynamic....it unfolds differently depending on what happens in the game.

I was reffering to the gameplay...like Farcry...crysis takes place all in one massive level that allows you to go anywhere whenever you want too, and approach situations differently from many different sides.

That's great, but how exactly does killing people in different ways affect the story's outcome?

...... multiple endings doesn't seem like something that'd work in an FPS, especially one like Crysis where it's mainly twitch shooting.

Halo1 revolutionized FPS games, Halo 2 continued it, Halo 3 is going to improve upon it. Meanwhile, EVERY OTHER FPS in the world copied the core mechanics of Halo1 that made it stand out, and now it's become standard. Many cows and sheep forget this, and say Halo never brought anything new to the table. Fact is, Halo MADE the table.GanonBuRAP

[QUOTE="cobrax25"][QUOTE="Chloroformality"][QUOTE="cobrax25"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"]Please expalin why crysis is so innovative.Chloroformality

Its like Farcry...it may not be inovative....but open ended, non-linnear gameplay is not common in FPS's.

But it is linear, though.

No matter how to play the game, the story unfolds in the same way.

....... btw, what the hell is Crysis about, anyway? Freaking aliens again?

How many freaking alien games are we going to get?

the story is dynamic....it unfolds differently depending on what happens in the game.

I was reffering to the gameplay...like Farcry...crysis takes place all in one massive level that allows you to go anywhere whenever you want too, and approach situations differently from many different sides.

That's great, but how exactly does killing people in different ways affect the story's outcome?

...... multiple endings doesn't seem like something that'd work in an FPS, especially one like Crysis where it's mainly twitch shooting.

It works very well in FPS's....again the gameplay is open ended...you can choose what objectives to complete.

and crysis isnt at all a twich shooter.....I dont even know how you got to that conclusion....like Farcry it puts a large emphasis on stealth and scouting...versus running in guns blazing.

GMOD has done it....what more could you want? and either way almost every PC game has a level editor.

every PC game also lets you take videos of the game.

cobrax25

You dont know what you're talking about. Forge is not a level editor. Forge allows you to detach the camera and change the environment in real-time. Other people can be playing the game in first-person, running around shooting each other when you decide to drop a bunch of fusion cores around them and make a mine field. Someone can be storming away on a ghost when you spawn a wall of crates right in front of them. You can manipulate the environment as you please completely in real-time.

As for saved films again, you can detach the camera and free-roam around the battlefield watching everything happen. You can pause, rewind, take screenshots, and position the camera any way you like.

I'm not saying it's an amazing innovation, but you cant just make tiny, tangible links to things and right the whole thing off as "it's been done".

If you want to get technical. All FPS are generic, as they have characteristics that pertain to one another and encompass the same basic gameplay elements. But anyway, why are we even arguing semantics?

Generic is a very...well...generic term. (pun intended) By definition, anything can be classified as generic. It just depends on how loosely you wish to use the term. Within the spectrum of FPSs, it is not generic. Within the spectrum of videogames, it is generic, as it can be classified under the genre FPS. If you want to go farther, you could say that all videogames are generic because you use a controller or a gamepad and you manipulate characters in an artificial environment, on the television.

[QUOTE="cobrax25"]

GMOD has done it....what more could you want? and either way almost every PC game has a level editor.

every PC game also lets you take videos of the game.

Ninja-Vox

You dont know what you're talking about. Forge is not a level editor. Forge allows you to detach the camera and change the environment in real-time. Other people can be playing the game in first-person, running around shooting each other when you decide to drop a bunch of fusion cores around them and make a mine field. Someone can be storming away on a ghost when you spawn a wall of crates right in front of them. You can manipulate the environment as you please completely in real-time.

As for saved films again, you can detach the camera and free-roam around the battlefield watching everything happen. You can pause, rewind, take screenshots, and position the camera any way you like.

I'm not saying it's an amazing innovation, but you cant just make tiny, tangible links to things and right the whole thing off as "it's been done".

thats exacly what GMOD lets you do....and Battlefield TV does the exact same thing you just mentioned.

[QUOTE="proud722"]

[QUOTE="organic_machine"]And you know what? There is nothing wrong with that. I hate it when lemmings claim Halo 3 to be the most innovative thing in the galaxy, but I also hate it when people (cows) say: "Oh it's not innovative. Therefore it sucks!" We can all admit that Halo 3 will bring nothing new to the table. But games don't have to. All games have to do is be fun. Moral of the story: Enjoys games for what they are. You want innovation? Play Bioshock or Crysis. You want straight up action? Play Halo 3 or Call of Duty. There's nothing wrong with either. organic_machine

All 4 of those games you listed look awesome in my opinion :D

Exactly. Generic can be a really great thing. Games like Painkiller and Timesplitters have already proved this.

Ah but I like bioshock and crysis for how interesting and different they are, but generic is especially fun in arcade shooters(dam europe should of got crysis first *I sware ive never said that for any other game...when i was'nt on a rant* its the first time a eurpean publisher has made a awesome game in ages andI would have liked to have enjoyed that but unfourtantely its EA *sigh* ah well I can hope for crysis 2 :D)

And you know what? There is nothing wrong with that. I hate it when lemmings claim Halo 3 to be the most innovative thing in the galaxy, but I also hate it when people (cows) say: "Oh it's not innovative. Therefore it sucks!" We can all admit that Halo 3 will bring nothing new to the table. But games don't have to. All games have to do is be fun. Moral of the story: Enjoys games for what they are. You want innovation? Play Bioshock or Crysis. You want straight up action? Play Halo 3 or Call of Duty. There's nothing wrong with either. organic_machine

Agreed so very much. It's like God of War, the lead dev said " I don't bring anything new to the table, I just take other ideas and put htem into one..". Just watch the shows at gametrailers. God of War is great, not innovative, but a masterpiece.

thats exacly what GMOD lets you do....and Battlefield TV does the exact same thing you just mentioned.

cobrax25

No sorry, i happily said that something similar has been done with garry's mod, but battlefield TV is basically a replay. It's not up to the same standard as saved films at all. And either way; did you actually read my post? I said neither were huge innovations, but it's not fair to just write it off because of something - even a game mod - has done something similar.

Forge sounds completely unique. We dont know what it will entail, and Garry's mod doesn't allow you to host a game of counter-strike and drop a tank on somebody while it's in progress.