Sh*t like this earns tons of money whileactual good games like Ys 8 barely break 100k in Japan and don't even have an NA localization confirmed shows how f*cked up the industry is going.
I've never played an Ys game before but from what I read/see it's a great series, and I'm really looking forward to Ys VIII for PS4. If it's not coming to the West, I'd probably cry.
1. We're talking about software, not hardware. And what do you mean by "screen changes"? Do you mean flip-screen? If so, then Hydlide also had flip-screen, so that's where Zelda got it from. Or do you mean a torch system? If so, then I don't remember Adventure having such a system.
2. Hydlide's creator stated that he had never played Ultima when he developed Hydlide.
3. Again, you'll need to be more specific. What gameplay mechanics are you actually referring to here?
4. Okay.
5. FF and Pokemon have picked-up recently, with FFXV and Sun/Moon being the fastest-selling games in their respective series.
1. Adventure did have "torch" elements on some screens where it blocked your view of the maze except what is around you. And overall Adventure had the concept Zelda uses well before Zelda was released.
2. But he was influenced by a game that did have the influence, Dragon Slayer. The company that made Dragon Slayer was even sued by Garriot for plagiarism.
3. I am talking about the core root of the game, not its combat or its art design. The core design of From Softs games are rooted in old school RPG dungeon crawlers, skipping the JRPG template entirely. Once again, IGN's video connects the Souls series to games like Wizardry, Ultima Underworld, etc. Yes, Dark Souls was influenced by Zelda, Ico, Berserk and the like, but the core is rooted in Kings Field and Shadow Tower, which was influenced by what I just listed. In fact, the Souls series is pretty much an evolution from those games.
4. The Looking Glass legacy is huge and cannot be denied, impacting games outside its genre. Even modern adventure games are influenced by its legacy, Nevermind first person shooters and 3D action adventure titles. And in the last two generations of gaming, the Looking Glass legacy has dominated.
5. Fast selling doesn't mean that overall it will sell more. Fallout 4 sold faster than Skyrim for instance but it will not outsell it in the long run because the reception isn't as good. I doubt FFXV will top FFVII in sales as its reception is not great (better than XIII but still not great). Also FFXV had a regional and multiplatform launch at the same time, which is a factor. There are signs that FFXV's sales will hit the wall and slow considerably if they already didn't have. Also FFXV sold worse in Japan.
1. I don't remember the original Zelda having a torch, so I still don't see the connection there.
2. Hydlide's creator stated that he never played Dragon Slayer either when he developed Hydlide.
3. The dungeon-crawler genre has a long history in Japan, dating back to the '80s. Some of these '80s Japanese dungeon-crawlers had full 3D polygon dungeons with real-time first/third-person movement, such as Wibarm and Star Cruiser. And some of these old-school Japanese dungeon-crawlers had first/third-person, real-time, hack & slash combat systems, such as Getsu Fuuma Den and Crossed Swords. If dungeon-crawling is all you can think of, then that's a weak connection.
4. Sure.
5. It's too soon to say. We'll have to wait and see how high it goes.
@Jag85: 1. I said Dragon's Quest, not Zelda....however Zelda did feature a candle but the light mechanics are different.
2. Ok, I meant Tower of Daruga but my point still stands. In the end, the action RPG is rooted in games like Ultima and Wizardry. Japan does get some credit for mixing action and RPG elements together (they did not do it alone however, see Gauntlet), but once again using elements of western made games.
3. But it was born in the West, so its still a Japanese take on a western created genre. And Kings Field is too much like Ultima Underworld anyway with very similar designs in some aspects. People will keep making the connection and they have every reason to. And Star Cruiser is no where near the level of Ultima Underworld when it comes to evolutionary elements. Star Cruiser and Wilbarm do not do what UU is ultimately famous for, being the first to have a dynamic 3d environment while pioneering the mechanics to make it so.
4. Lets see, direct descendants include the Deus Ex, System Shock (and Bioshock), and Thief series, influenced everything Bethesda develops as does Arkane Studios, and were influences for the Tomb Raider and Half life series. Black Isle and Bioware, who brought WRPGs back from the dead, were heavily influenced by Looking Glass. The walking simulator like Dear Ester, Gone Home, and Everybody Comes to The Rapture come from Looking Glass legacy. Ultima Underworld played a role in the birth of the modern first person shooter due to its influence for Wolfenstein 3d. The legacy was not apparent in the 90s, but modern gaming runs on what Looking Glass accomplished. To say that its influence was limited as you say is ignorance. UU's influence was not only direct, it was broad, and leaves a absolutely huge developer tree. And System Shock itself is highly influential in modern game design as well, more so than even DOOM.
5. its not too soon, and just because a game sell fast doesn't mean it would sell more.
@Jag85: 1. I said Dragon's Quest, not Zelda....however Zelda did feature a candle but the light mechanics are different.
2. Ok, I meant Tower of Daruga but my point still stands. In the end, the action RPG is rooted in games like Ultima and Wizardry. Japan does get some credit for mixing action and RPG elements together (they did not do it alone however, see Gauntlet), but once again using elements of western made games.
3. But it was born in the West, so its still a Japanese take on a western created genre. And Kings Field is too much like Ultima Underworld anyway with very similar designs in some aspects. People will keep making the connection and they have every reason to. And Star Cruiser is no where near the level of Ultima Underworld when it comes to evolutionary elements. Star Cruiser and Wilbarm do not do what UU is ultimately famous for, being the first to have a dynamic 3d environment while pioneering the mechanics to make it so.
4. Lets see, direct descendants include the Deus Ex, System Shock (and Bioshock), and Thief series, influenced everything Bethesda develops as does Arkane Studios, and were influences for the Tomb Raider and Half life series. Black Isle and Bioware, who brought WRPGs back from the dead, were heavily influenced by Looking Glass. The walking simulator like Dear Ester, Gone Home, and Everybody Comes to The Rapture come from Looking Glass legacy. Ultima Underworld played a role in the birth of the modern first person shooter due to its influence for Wolfenstein 3d. The legacy was not apparent in the 90s, but modern gaming runs on what Looking Glass accomplished. To say that its influence was limited as you say is ignorance. UU's influence was not only direct, it was broad, and leaves a absolutely huge developer tree. And System Shock itself is highly influential in modern game design as well, more so than even DOOM.
5. its not too soon, and just because a game sell fast doesn't mean it would sell more.
1. Okay.
2. The Tower of Druaga wasn't influenced by Ultima either.
3. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "dynamic 3D environment"? And how does this relate to Souls?
4. I didn't say its influence is limited. And System Shock is nowhere near as influential as Doom.
5. On what basis are you predicting that it won't sell more?
@Jag85: 1. I said Dragon's Quest, not Zelda....however Zelda did feature a candle but the light mechanics are different.
2. Ok, I meant Tower of Daruga but my point still stands. In the end, the action RPG is rooted in games like Ultima and Wizardry. Japan does get some credit for mixing action and RPG elements together (they did not do it alone however, see Gauntlet), but once again using elements of western made games.
3. But it was born in the West, so its still a Japanese take on a western created genre. And Kings Field is too much like Ultima Underworld anyway with very similar designs in some aspects. People will keep making the connection and they have every reason to. And Star Cruiser is no where near the level of Ultima Underworld when it comes to evolutionary elements. Star Cruiser and Wilbarm do not do what UU is ultimately famous for, being the first to have a dynamic 3d environment while pioneering the mechanics to make it so.
4. Lets see, direct descendants include the Deus Ex, System Shock (and Bioshock), and Thief series, influenced everything Bethesda develops as does Arkane Studios, and were influences for the Tomb Raider and Half life series. Black Isle and Bioware, who brought WRPGs back from the dead, were heavily influenced by Looking Glass. The walking simulator like Dear Ester, Gone Home, and Everybody Comes to The Rapture come from Looking Glass legacy. Ultima Underworld played a role in the birth of the modern first person shooter due to its influence for Wolfenstein 3d. The legacy was not apparent in the 90s, but modern gaming runs on what Looking Glass accomplished. To say that its influence was limited as you say is ignorance. UU's influence was not only direct, it was broad, and leaves a absolutely huge developer tree. And System Shock itself is highly influential in modern game design as well, more so than even DOOM.
5. its not too soon, and just because a game sell fast doesn't mean it would sell more.
1. Okay.
2. The Tower of Druaga wasn't influenced by Ultima either.
3. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "dynamic 3D environment"? And how does this relate to Souls?
4. I didn't say its influence is limited. And System Shock is nowhere near as influential as Doom.
5. On what basis are you predicting that it won't sell more?
1. But its an example where the game could have an impact on Japanese developers.
2. But Black Onyx is also another influence to Hydlide and it was not only influenced by Ultima and Wizardry, it influenced Zelda as well, as Miyamoto mentioned it with Ultima. So the creation of Hydlide is an example of a game designer not knowing the full influences of his work.
3. Environmental interactivity is one such aspect, and UU was one of the first and definitely the one to pioneer how to do it, in a true 3d space. Environmental change is another, something important for first person shooters later down the line. Star Cruiser does not have this interactivity, its a more static world. King's Field follows this trend. It was no where near UU's level, it was there.
4. In modern game design, its more so. It even influenced Doom 3. While Doom has more cultural influence, Looking Glass has more game design influence.
5. Because of its reception shows tell tale signs of many people not fully receiving the title warmly, unlike say The Witcher 3, which has won widespread praise and was one of last years best sellers. A lot of hyped titles have frontloaded sales and FFXV was one of them. If SquareEnix wants FFXV to still sell, their post launch content has to not only be good, but fix the problems of the game. Also FFXV's numbers are based off of shipments, not actual sales.
1. But its an example where the game could have an impact on Japanese developers.
2. But Black Onyx is also another influence to Hydlide and it was not only influenced by Ultima and Wizardry, it influenced Zelda as well, as Miyamoto mentioned it with Ultima. So the creation of Hydlide is an example of a game designer not knowing the full influences of his work.
3. Environmental interactivity is one such aspect, and UU was one of the first and definitely the one to pioneer how to do it, in a true 3d space. Environmental change is another, something important for first person shooters later down the line. Star Cruiser does not have this interactivity, its a more static world. King's Field follows this trend. It was no where near UU's level, it was there.
4. In modern game design, its more so. It even influenced Doom 3. While Doom has more cultural influence, Looking Glass has more game design influence.
5. Because of its reception shows tell tale signs of many people not fully receiving the title warmly, unlike say The Witcher 3, which has won widespread praise and was one of last years best sellers. A lot of hyped titles have frontloaded sales and FFXV was one of them. If SquareEnix wants FFXV to still sell, their post launch content has to not only be good, but fix the problems of the game. Also FFXV's numbers are based off of shipments, not actual sales.
1. The first game with a light mechanic was Taito's 1977 arcade game Super Speed Race. Light mechanics also appeared in Sega's 1981 stealth arcade game 005 and ASCII's 1981 survival horror game Nostromo.
2. The Black Onyx was influenced by Wizardry, not Ultima.
3. Star Cruiser had 3D environmental change in 1988. In 1989, Sweet Home had environmental interactivity, environmental change and environment-based storytelling. And in the early '90s, The Life Stage: Virtual House had environmental interactivity and environmental change in a fully 3D polygon environment.
4. Far more games today take game design influence from Doom than they do from System Shock.
5. Online reception doesn't necessarily reflect mainstream sales. Many mediocre games sell tons of copies. The numbers include both shipments and digital sales. The initial 5 million shipment has definitely been sold, since they shipped a million more a month later.
1. But its an example where the game could have an impact on Japanese developers.
2. But Black Onyx is also another influence to Hydlide and it was not only influenced by Ultima and Wizardry, it influenced Zelda as well, as Miyamoto mentioned it with Ultima. So the creation of Hydlide is an example of a game designer not knowing the full influences of his work.
3. Environmental interactivity is one such aspect, and UU was one of the first and definitely the one to pioneer how to do it, in a true 3d space. Environmental change is another, something important for first person shooters later down the line. Star Cruiser does not have this interactivity, its a more static world. King's Field follows this trend. It was no where near UU's level, it was there.
4. In modern game design, its more so. It even influenced Doom 3. While Doom has more cultural influence, Looking Glass has more game design influence.
5. Because of its reception shows tell tale signs of many people not fully receiving the title warmly, unlike say The Witcher 3, which has won widespread praise and was one of last years best sellers. A lot of hyped titles have frontloaded sales and FFXV was one of them. If SquareEnix wants FFXV to still sell, their post launch content has to not only be good, but fix the problems of the game. Also FFXV's numbers are based off of shipments, not actual sales.
1. The first game with a light mechanic was Taito's 1977 arcade game Super Speed Race. Light mechanics also appeared in Sega's 1981 stealth arcade game 005 and ASCII's 1981 survival horror game Nostromo.
2. The Black Onyx was influenced by Wizardry, not Ultima.
3. Star Cruiser had 3D environmental change in 1988. In 1989, Sweet Home had environmental interactivity, environmental change and environment-based storytelling. And in the early '90s, The Life Stage: Virtual House had environmental interactivity and environmental change in a fully 3D polygon environment.
4. Far more games today take game design influence from Doom than they do from System Shock.
5. Online reception doesn't necessarily reflect mainstream sales. Many mediocre games sell tons of copies. The numbers include both shipments and digital sales. The initial 5 million shipment has definitely been sold, since they shipped a million more a month later.
1. But its how Adventure did it I am talking about, which Dragon Quest emulates.
2. yet it still proves my point. I consider Wizardry one of the most important games series ever made as well.
3. No, it really didn't. It was a static environment where the only truly dynamic aspects were the enemies. It have very few if at all meaningful environmental interactions. Also notice I said one of the first, not the first to do it as well, but its the first to do it in a 3d RPG.
4. Wrong. The fact is that System Shock influence has overtaken the first person shooter to where games like Doom are a rarity. In fact, the Doom series now takes elements from System Shock. And really, Doom really did not do anything that Wolfenstein 3d hadn't already done. From a game design perspective, Doom is very much over credited in importance.
5. But with a series like Final Fantasy, lukewarm reception could dent sales. It has happened with XII and XIII already. And by the looks of it, FFXV's sales are indeed, slowing down considerably and nearing saturation. And once again, the fact that FFXV was the fastest selling comes with an asterisk and that is that it was the first multiplatform worldwide release so sales saturation could come quicker. It is also struggling in Japan, underperforming XIII there. And its clear that FFXV is no where near as successful as AAA console WRPG sales.
1. The first game with a light mechanic was Taito's 1977 arcade game Super Speed Race. Light mechanics also appeared in Sega's 1981 stealth arcade game 005 and ASCII's 1981 survival horror game Nostromo.
2. The Black Onyx was influenced by Wizardry, not Ultima.
3. Star Cruiser had 3D environmental change in 1988. In 1989, Sweet Home had environmental interactivity, environmental change and environment-based storytelling. And in the early '90s, The Life Stage: Virtual House had environmental interactivity and environmental change in a fully 3D polygon environment.
4. Far more games today take game design influence from Doom than they do from System Shock.
5. Online reception doesn't necessarily reflect mainstream sales. Many mediocre games sell tons of copies. The numbers include both shipments and digital sales. The initial 5 million shipment has definitely been sold, since they shipped a million more a month later.
1. But its how Adventure did it I am talking about, which Dragon Quest emulates.
2. yet it still proves my point. I consider Wizardry one of the most important games series ever made as well.
3. No, it really didn't. It was a static environment where the only truly dynamic aspects were the enemies. It have very few if at all meaningful environmental interactions. Also notice I said one of the first, not the first to do it as well, but its the first to do it in a 3d RPG.
4. Wrong. The fact is that System Shock influence has overtaken the first person shooter to where games like Doom are a rarity. In fact, the Doom series now takes elements from System Shock. And really, Doom really did not do anything that Wolfenstein 3d hadn't already done. From a game design perspective, Doom is very much over credited in importance.
5. But with a series like Final Fantasy, lukewarm reception could dent sales. It has happened with XII and XIII already. And by the looks of it, FFXV's sales are indeed, slowing down considerably and nearing saturation. And once again, the fact that FFXV was the fastest selling comes with an asterisk and that is that it was the first multiplatform worldwide release so sales saturation could come quicker. It is also struggling in Japan, underperforming XIII there. And its clear that FFXV is no where near as successful as AAA console WRPG sales.
1. You mean how only the small area around you is visible? That's how Super Speed Race and Nostromo did it as well.
2. Your original point was about Ultima, not Wizardry.
3. In Star Cruiser, sections of the environment can change. And besides Sweet Home and The Life Stage, '80s visual novels like Portopia Serial Murder Case and Snatcher also had first-person environmental interaction as well as environment-based storytelling.
4. In terms of things like the gameplay mechanics, controls, multiplayer, and deathmatch, Doom's influence is still very evident in modern FPS games, to a far greater extent than System Shock or Wolfenstein 3D.
5. The Japanese console market has shrunk, due to the shift towards handhelds and mobiles. But FFXV has more than made up for it with Western sales. It was North America's second best-selling game over Christmas, behind only COD Infinite Warfare. And compared to the last major WRPG, Witcher 3, FFXV has sold at roughly the same pace.
1. The first game with a light mechanic was Taito's 1977 arcade game Super Speed Race. Light mechanics also appeared in Sega's 1981 stealth arcade game 005 and ASCII's 1981 survival horror game Nostromo.
2. The Black Onyx was influenced by Wizardry, not Ultima.
3. Star Cruiser had 3D environmental change in 1988. In 1989, Sweet Home had environmental interactivity, environmental change and environment-based storytelling. And in the early '90s, The Life Stage: Virtual House had environmental interactivity and environmental change in a fully 3D polygon environment.
4. Far more games today take game design influence from Doom than they do from System Shock.
5. Online reception doesn't necessarily reflect mainstream sales. Many mediocre games sell tons of copies. The numbers include both shipments and digital sales. The initial 5 million shipment has definitely been sold, since they shipped a million more a month later.
1. But its how Adventure did it I am talking about, which Dragon Quest emulates.
2. yet it still proves my point. I consider Wizardry one of the most important games series ever made as well.
3. No, it really didn't. It was a static environment where the only truly dynamic aspects were the enemies. It have very few if at all meaningful environmental interactions. Also notice I said one of the first, not the first to do it as well, but its the first to do it in a 3d RPG.
4. Wrong. The fact is that System Shock influence has overtaken the first person shooter to where games like Doom are a rarity. In fact, the Doom series now takes elements from System Shock. And really, Doom really did not do anything that Wolfenstein 3d hadn't already done. From a game design perspective, Doom is very much over credited in importance.
5. But with a series like Final Fantasy, lukewarm reception could dent sales. It has happened with XII and XIII already. And by the looks of it, FFXV's sales are indeed, slowing down considerably and nearing saturation. And once again, the fact that FFXV was the fastest selling comes with an asterisk and that is that it was the first multiplatform worldwide release so sales saturation could come quicker. It is also struggling in Japan, underperforming XIII there. And its clear that FFXV is no where near as successful as AAA console WRPG sales.
1. You mean how only the small area around you is visible? That's how Super Speed Race and Nostromo did it as well.
2. Your original point was about Ultima, not Wizardry.
3. In Star Cruiser, sections of the environment can change. And besides Sweet Home and The Life Stage, '80s visual novels like Portopia Serial Murder Case and Snatcher also had first-person environmental interaction as well as environment-based storytelling.
4. In terms of things like the gameplay mechanics, controls, multiplayer, and deathmatch, Doom's influence is still very evident in modern FPS games, to a far greater extent than System Shock or Wolfenstein 3D.
5. The Japanese console market has shrunk, due to the shift towards handhelds and mobiles. But FFXV has more than made up for it with Western sales. It was North America's second best-selling game over Christmas, behind only COD Infinite Warfare. And compared to the last major WRPG, Witcher 3, FFXV has sold at roughly the same pace.
1. But those aren't adventure games or RPGs.
I am not the only one making a connection as well.
http://1morecastle.com/2014/01/adventure-for-the-atari-2600-the-skyrim-of-its-day/
2. But Wizardry is also a huge influence, a different influence from Ultima, but a huge influence.
3. Not in the way that Ultima Underworld does it, and as for your latter point, they weren't true 3d. Once again, you fail to see Ultima Underworld's influence as a sum of its parts. It was influential due to how aspects came together, more than just one particular aspect. and really, Star Cruiser isn't a real RPG, its closer to System Shock than Ultima Underworld and Star Cruiser, unlike System Shock, isn't an immersive sim.
4. But some of these things were brought over from Wolfenstein 3d and overall Doom is just Wolfenstein 3d in space. Doom is an evolution of Wolfenstein 3d, not a revolution. Once again, its overcredited and nowhere near as important as people make it out to be. The fact of the matter is that the way System Shock handles shooters have trumped the way Doom handles them when it comes to single player. In fact, the Doom style gameplay was on its way out, and that's what makes the new Doom a little more noteworthy. Once again, Doom 3 has System Shock influence and the new Doom still has it.
http://www.gamerheadlines.com/2014/07/doom-beat-system-shock-system-shock-shaped-doom-3/
5. Ummmm....Fallout 4? Outsold the Witcher 3 and in its first year outpaced Skyrim in sales. Also once again, shipped are not sales and digital sales are not as prevalent in consoles as they are on PC. FFXV isn't on PC. In the case of TW3, digital is only a fraction of the sales, only around 30%. And The Witcher 3 has stronger legs to keep selling unlike FFXV,as TW3 has far better reception and acclaim than FFXV does.
1. You mean how only the small area around you is visible? That's how Super Speed Race and Nostromo did it as well.
2. Your original point was about Ultima, not Wizardry.
3. In Star Cruiser, sections of the environment can change. And besides Sweet Home and The Life Stage, '80s visual novels like Portopia Serial Murder Case and Snatcher also had first-person environmental interaction as well as environment-based storytelling.
4. In terms of things like the gameplay mechanics, controls, multiplayer, and deathmatch, Doom's influence is still very evident in modern FPS games, to a far greater extent than System Shock or Wolfenstein 3D.
5. The Japanese console market has shrunk, due to the shift towards handhelds and mobiles. But FFXV has more than made up for it with Western sales. It was North America's second best-selling game over Christmas, behind only COD Infinite Warfare. And compared to the last major WRPG, Witcher 3, FFXV has sold at roughly the same pace.
1. But those aren't adventure games or RPGs.
I am not the only one making a connection as well.
http://1morecastle.com/2014/01/adventure-for-the-atari-2600-the-skyrim-of-its-day/
2. But Wizardry is also a huge influence, a different influence from Ultima, but a huge influence.
3. Not in the way that Ultima Underworld does it, and as for your latter point, they weren't true 3d. Once again, you fail to see Ultima Underworld's influence as a sum of its parts. It was influential due to how aspects came together, more than just one particular aspect. and really, Star Cruiser isn't a real RPG, its closer to System Shock than Ultima Underworld and Star Cruiser, unlike System Shock, isn't an immersive sim.
4. But some of these things were brought over from Wolfenstein 3d and overall Doom is just Wolfenstein 3d in space. Doom is an evolution of Wolfenstein 3d, not a revolution. Once again, its overcredited and nowhere near as important as people make it out to be. The fact of the matter is that the way System Shock handles shooters have trumped the way Doom handles them when it comes to single player. In fact, the Doom style gameplay was on its way out, and that's what makes the new Doom a little more noteworthy. Once again, Doom 3 has System Shock influence and the new Doom still has it.
http://www.gamerheadlines.com/2014/07/doom-beat-system-shock-system-shock-shaped-doom-3/
5. Ummmm....Fallout 4? Outsold the Witcher 3 and in its first year outpaced Skyrim in sales. Also once again, shipped are not sales and digital sales are not as prevalent in consoles as they are on PC. FFXV isn't on PC. In the case of TW3, digital is only a fraction of the sales, only around 30%. And The Witcher 3 has stronger legs to keep selling unlike FFXV,as TW3 has far better reception and acclaim than FFXV does.
1. There was also a Japanese action-adventure from the early '80s, Panorama Toh, which used a flashlight in the same manner. The concept was around in several Japanese games at the time. There's no need to make a connection to a game that wasn't even available in Japan at the time.
2. And yet Zelda doesn't play anything like Wizardry.
3. The point is that those elements were around in other Japanese games, before and after UU. And in Souls' case, Miyazaki cited Ico as his biggest influence. It was from Ico where he got the environmental interaction and environment-based storytelling from.
4. Doom is a spiritual successor to Wolfeinsten 3D. And like you said, Doom had a bigger cultural influence. What made Doom so influential was its deathmatch multiplayer, the basis for FPS multiplayer to this day. Doom 3 is irrelevant, since that's a survival horror, before the reboot brought it back to its roots.
5. Fallout 4 outpaced Skyrim in shipments, but its actual sales figures are unknown. Besides, that's just one company, Bethesda. Other WRPGs don't sell as well as Bethesda games do. And again, critical acclaim doesn't necessarily correlate with sales. It's a factor, but not the only factor. Marketing usually plays a much bigger role in sales than critical acclaim does.
@Jag85: 1. Once again, define available. You do not think game designers could of had the game before the general public? Its been the case early in Japan.
2. But that doesn't mean there is no influence. Once again, Ultima and Wizardry influenced games outside the genre.
3. But King's Field is Dark Souls biggest influence and Demon Souls was the spiritual successor to it. Many elements found in the Souls series comes from Kings field and Shadow Tower and that cannot be denied. Also, King's Field once again, predates Miyazaki's involvement with the company.
4. But cultural influence isn't everything. In fact, its quite overrated by itself. And really, the only influence still standing that Doom really has is the multiplayer. For single player side of FPS's, System Shock by far has much more influence, and increasingly so throughout the years. And even with Doom going back to its roots, guess what? It still has System Shock elements. Oh, and the multiplayer is the new Doom's weak link, so obviously, Dooms impact on multiplayer is rather limited. Goldeneye's multiplayer is far more influential and Counterstrike modernized it.
The fact of the matter is Doom's influence was short term and immediate, but its influence waned over time. System Shock on the other hand, the opposite is true, and now is one of modern gaming's most influential games. Even Titanfall 2's campaign dips in System Shocks playbook. Even the walking simulator comes from System Shock's playbook, so the game has influence once again, outside the genre.
5. the Witcher 3 has now more than 10 million copies sold and that was in June, surpassing all single FF games but FFVII, which it will probably pass as well. Bioware can now match a Final Fantasy game in sales and I would not be surprised if Mass Effect Andromeda sells more than its expected to, due to not needing to play the past games. Also Bethesda stated just recently that Fallout 4 has been more successful in the time frame that Skyrim. So the big three AAA WRPG developers have left the Final Fantasy in the dust.
"Oh, and the multiplayer is the new Doom's weak link, so obviously, Dooms impact on multiplayer is rather limited."
How does someone sit at a computer and type this thinking they're making a good argument? Not saying Doom's multiplayer was or wasn't influential but that's not an argument for either.
"Oh, and the multiplayer is the new Doom's weak link, so obviously, Dooms impact on multiplayer is rather limited."
How does someone sit at a computer and type this thinking they're making a good argument? Not saying Doom's multiplayer was or wasn't influential but that's not an argument for either.
Because its multiplayer was quickly eclipsed.
In fact Doom's core design is pretty much outdated thanks to games like GoldenEye, Half Life, and System Shock. add to the fact that it was basically an upgrade to the more revolutionary Wolfenstein 3d and you got the most over credited game in gaming history.
"Oh, and the multiplayer is the new Doom's weak link, so obviously, Dooms impact on multiplayer is rather limited."
How does someone sit at a computer and type this thinking they're making a good argument? Not saying Doom's multiplayer was or wasn't influential but that's not an argument for either.
Because its multiplayer was quickly eclipsed.
In fact Doom's core design is pretty much outdated thanks to games like GoldenEye, Half Life, and System Shock. add to the fact that it was basically an upgrade to the more revolutionary Wolfenstein 3d and you got the most over credited game in gaming history.
None of that makes the above anywhere near a decent argument. Go look up how to form an argument, then re-read the above and get back to me.
@Jag85: 1. Once again, define available. You do not think game designers could of had the game before the general public? Its been the case early in Japan.
2. But that doesn't mean there is no influence.
3. But King's Field is Dark Souls biggest influence and Demon Souls was the spiritual successor to it. Many elements found in the Souls series comes from Kings field and Shadow Tower and that cannot be denied. Also, King's Field once again, predates Miyazaki's involvement with the company.
4. But cultural influence isn't everything. In fact, its quite overrated by itself. And really, the only influence still standing that Doom really has is the multiplayer. For single player side of FPS's, System Shock by far has much more influence, and increasingly so throughout the years. And even with Doom going back to its roots, guess what? It still has System Shock elements. Oh, and the multiplayer is the new Doom's weak link, so obviously, Dooms impact on multiplayer is rather limited. Goldeneye's multiplayer is far more influential and Counterstrike modernized it.
5. the Witcher 3 has now more than 10 million copies sold and that was in June, surpassing all single FF games but FFVII, which it will probably pass as well. Bioware can now match a Final Fantasy game in sales and I would not be surprised if Mass Effect Andromeda sells more than its expected to, due to not needing to play the past games. Also Bethesda stated just recently that Fallout 4 has been more successful in the time frame that Skyrim. So the big three AAA WRPG developers have left the Final Fantasy in the dust.
1. The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers contains numerous interviews with many different Japanese developers from the '80s. Not a single one of them has ever cited Adventure, or any Atari 2600 games. In the early '80s, consoles were irrelevant in Japan, which was ruled by arcades and computers at the time. It wasn't until the NES came out that consoles became relevant in Japan.
2. The influence is very minor.
3. Souls is Miyazaki's baby. And he said Ico was his biggest influence. So that's clearly what he modeled Souls' environmental interaction and environment-based storytelling after.
4. Modern FPS single-player campaigns have largely gone in a linear direction, which is the opposite to System Shock. So what kind of System Shock influence are you even referring to? As for multiplayer, Doom's deathmatch was the basis for the multiplayer in GoldenEye (which was essentially Doom meets Virtua Cop) and Counter-Strike.
5. That's 10 million shipped, and Witcher 3 took nearly a year to reach it. FFXV, in just over a month, has already matched ME3's lifetime figures. As for Fallout 4, they still haven't provided any sales figures beyond the initial 12 million shipment. To date, the only WRPGs that have passed FFVII are Skyrim and Fallout 4, while no WRPG has yet matched the first three generations of Pokemon.
"Oh, and the multiplayer is the new Doom's weak link, so obviously, Dooms impact on multiplayer is rather limited."
How does someone sit at a computer and type this thinking they're making a good argument? Not saying Doom's multiplayer was or wasn't influential but that's not an argument for either.
Because its multiplayer was quickly eclipsed.
In fact Doom's core design is pretty much outdated thanks to games like GoldenEye, Half Life, and System Shock. add to the fact that it was basically an upgrade to the more revolutionary Wolfenstein 3d and you got the most over credited game in gaming history.
None of that makes the above anywhere near a decent argument. Go look up how to form an argument, then re-read the above and get back to me.
It does make a decent argument, and it goes to show that the developers of Doom did not focus on the multiplayer because that's not what the game is famous for.
None of that makes the above anywhere near a decent argument. Go look up how to form an argument, then re-read the above and get back to me.
It does make a decent argument, and it goes to show that the developers of Doom did not focus on the multiplayer because that's not what the game is famous for.
Lol, even that isn't an argument for what you said above. I understand this might be hard for you, but try and think. Read over what you've been saying and to the best of you limited ability, actually form a coherent argument.
Just because something isn't popular anymore, doesn't mean it wasn't influential in its time or in the present. That's an asinine argument and anyone with any sort of grasp on reality would see that.
@Jag85: 1. But it is foolish to even think that Nintendo did not even look at the Atari 2600 and other systems while creating the NES.
2. Hardly. Ultima and Wizardry had fundamental impacts on the Japanese game industry. even if Miyamoto took a few elements, influence is still influence.
3. But once again, elements were taken from past FromSoft games and its core game design is rooted in old school dungeon crawlers. Oh, and Ico has Western influences as well. take your pick, King's Field or Ico, both heavily influenced by the West.
4. But even a linear FPS campaign can incorporate elements of System Shock. While not a FPS, Mass effect 2's Overlord DLC does just that. Doom's multiplayer is only a basis, and its the only real thing new it really brought to the table. And its Maze war that had the first online multiplayer for a first person shooter game well before Doom did it so it doesn't get pioneering credit either.
And really after the release of Half Life, which basically combined both the Doom style and the Looking Glass style, Doom became far less influential in the long run.
5. No, its 10 million SOLD and it is probably higher now as TW3 was one of 2016's top selling games and that number was revealed in the middle of last year. And FFXV's numbers are shipped, not sold. So you are in the wrong here. Once again, console digital sales are not as powerful and important as PC digital sales for AAA titles and FFXV is not on PC. Also, once again, FFXV is less likely than TW3 to actually keep selling as it has a weaker reception. The frontloaded hype sales are over, now its about the word of mouth, test of time sales, and FFXV may struggle with that. Really, there is a good chance that FFXV will not reach 10 million and die around 6 to 7 million actual sales, which is what happened to the last two main FF titles.
@Jag85: 1. But it is foolish to even think that Nintendo did not even look at the Atari 2600 and other systems while creating the NES.
2. Hardly. Ultima and Wizardry had fundamental impacts on the Japanese game industry. even if Miyamoto took a few elements, influence is still influence.
3. But once again, elements were taken from past FromSoft games and its core game design is rooted in old school dungeon crawlers. Oh, and Ico has Western influences as well. take your pick, King's Field or Ico, both heavily influenced by the West.
4. But even a linear FPS campaign can incorporate elements of System Shock. Doom's multiplayer is only a basis, and its the only real thing new it really brought to the table. And its Maze war that had the first online multiplayer for a first person shooter game well before Doom did it so it doesn't get pioneering credit either.
5. No, its 10 million SOLD and it is probably higher now as TW3 was one of 2016's top selling games and that number was revealed in the middle of last year. And FFXV's numbers are shipped, not sold. So you are in the wrong here. Once again, console digital sales are not as powerful and important as PC digital sales for AAA titles and FFXV is not on PC. Also, once again, FFXV is less likely than TW3 to actually keep selling as it has a weaker reception. The frontloaded hype sales are over, now its about the word of mouth, test of time sales, and FFXV may struggle with that. Really, there is a good chance that FFXV will not reach 10 million and die around 6 to 7 million actual sales, which is what happened to the last two main FF titles.
1. We're talking about software, not hardware. Atari 2600 games had no influence on Japanese developers.
2. The impact of Ultima & Wizardy lie in JRPGs, not Zelda. The only thing Zelda took from them is the idea of leveling-up, which it implemented in an entirely different manner, more akin to arcade power-ups.
3. We're talking about 3D environmental interaction, which Ico's 2D Western influences didn't have. Ico's 3D environmental interaction stems from Fumito Ueda's earlier Sega Saturn game, Enemy Zero.
4. What System Shock elements are you referring to? And Maze War (which was local network, not online) had no influence on the FPS genre, nor did it have deathmatch. The first FPS with deathmatch was MIDI Maze (which was essentially a first-person Pac-Man, as was Wolfenstein 3D). Ultimately, it was Doom's deathmatch that became the basis for FPS multiplayer.
5. Technically, they said nearly 10 million sold, which would mean over 9 million sold. Where did you hear about TW3 being one of 2016's top-selling games? It wasn't on NPD's top 10 list for 2016, or even 2015, whereas FFXV made the 2016 NPD top 10 despite releasing at the end of the year. Also, FFXV had another million restocked on top of the initial 5 million shipment, meaning that at least over 5 million had been sold during Christmas season. And it will be ported to PC and Scorpio, so sales will increase.
This and Pokemon and Yakuza 0 and The Last Guardian and Resident Evil 7 and Nioh and Nier Automata and Zelda and Persona and-
Remind me how Japanese games are dead again? lol
And I wouldn't want it any other way. :)
Seriously, I'm so sick of all these boring ass western games like CoD, Halo, Gears, Battlefield etc.
The west also has games like Dishonored 2, Undertale, Rocket League, The Witcher 3, etc. Quit with the shooter stereotypes, because Japanese games have stereotypes as well.
True, true. My point was that your typical bro-shooter is much more common than a quality RPG/JRPG now-a-days and I'm seriously bored of that. I wasn't condemning western games in general, like you mentioned, there's enough variety there as well.
@Jag85: 1. Yet Adventure has uncanny similarities to later Japanese action RPGs.
2. Ultima and Wizardry had an impact on Zelda's genre and that cannot be denied.
3. However, Dark Souls plays closer to Looking Glass Studio games than Ico. Dark Souls also plays more similar to Arx Fatalis than Ico and Zelda, because at its roots, its that type of game. Like Ultima Underworld, you can attack and kill NPCs and face consequences for what you do in dungeons outside of just combat.
4. Environmental storytelling and interaction. Once again, Looking Glass is the pioneer for doing it in a 3d space. Second, what else did DOOM do other than multiplayer? Nothing at its core that Wolfenstein 3d hadn't already done and technically Ultima Underworld was more advanced.
5. NDP does not pick up PC games or digital sales and its only for North America and TW3 is a bigger hit on PC than on consoles. The Witcher 3 is one of the top sellers on Steam last year and Steam is not The Witcher 3's most successful platform, where GOG is. And just because one million were stocked doesn't mean that they sold through the current one, but might. So realistically FFXV has not sold 6 million copies yet. Also, in Japan and the UK, FFXV is doing worse than what FFXIII was doing. So really, the jury is still out on how successful FFXV will be. But once again, FFXV does not have the acclaim that TW3 does to help It long term. And Final Fantasy are not great sellers on PC.
@texasgoldrush:
1. Multiple discovery.
2. The only thing they impacted is the level-up mechanic, which is more of an arcade-style permanent power-up in Zelda's case. That's as far as their influence goes. When it comes to how they actually play, Zelda is completely different. It's an evolution of the Hydlide formula, which combined Tower of Druaga's arcade action-adventure gameplay with Black Onyx style leveling-up, except Zelda toned-down the leveling-up and made it more like Pac-Man style arcade power-ups.
3. Souls' combat mechanics, controls, camera system, interface, inventory system, environmental interaction and dungeon design stem from Zelda, not UU. And Souls' environment-based storytelling stems from Ico, not UU. Again, Zelda and Ico are the games cited by Miyazaki as major inspirations, not UU.
4. When did the likes of COD and Battlefield have environmental storytelling? As for Doom, its engine and level design are more advanced than Wolfenstein and UU. In Wolfenstein and UU, the levels are based on a grid of large 2D tiles with square blocks making up walls. In Doom, level design is based on sectors of any shape and size, heights that could vary in real-time, dynamic lighting, and scripted events.
5. How much did Witcher 3 sell on GOG? In the UK, FFXIII had a faster start, but it dropped out of the top 10 within weeks, whereas FFXV has remained in the top 10 for months. And worldwide, it's already catching-up to FFXIII's lifetime console sales (6.6 million), despite under-performing in Japan, which means FFXV is doing better in the West than FFXIII did. As for the FF games on PC, they're just ports of old games.
@Jag85: 1. Not really. And you can have a situation like Hydlide where the creator didn't know their influences fully.
2. However once again, a game can influence another in a different genre.
3. Combat mechanics and camera maybe, but everything else have roots in old school dungeon crawlers. Once again, get of the Zelda and Ico horse, because the most important influence to Dark Souls is actually From Softs earlier titles. In fact, its environmental storytelling and level design comes from most, their earlier titles. These games predate Ico. And really, even if Miyazaki didn't play UU, the influences are still there due to the influence of King's Field.
4. Battlefield 1 has stealth gameplay and wide open levels where you can choose your approach. Also emergent gameplay is king in Battlefield. And Doom does some things better than Ultima Underworld, but not others when it comes to its mechanics and level design.
5. Once again, you only have shipped numbers, not sold. I do not doubt that the game will outsell FFXIII, but it is not going to outsell The Witcher 3, Diablo III, and of course Skyrim. And really, their lack of success in Japan opens of a very interesting option for SquareEnix for future titles, to sacrifice to the Japanese market and fully cater to The West.
1. Both of Hydlide's influences, Tower of Druaga and Black Onyx, have no connection to Adventure.
2. And I've already explained to you what specific mechanic they influenced, permanent power-ups. That's pretty much it.
3. Not just the combat mechanics and camera, but also the controls (movement, combat controls, context-sensitivity), inventory system and interface layout (down to the cross-shaped item menu), resurrection checkpoints, environmental interaction (right down to the pot-smashing shenanigans), Metroidvania-style level designs, boss battles, dungeon designs, etc. show clear Zelda influences. If you believe UU is a bigger influence, then you'll need to specify what mechanics you're referring to, instead of making vague assertions.
4. Stealth mechanics, wide open levels and emergent gameplay have been around in FPS games as early as GoldenEye, which wasn't influenced by System Shock at all (GoldenEye's influences were Doom, Virtua Cop, and Mario 64). And like I already explained, Doom's level design is more advanced than UU.
5. Okay.
Sh*t like this earns tons of money whileactual good games like Ys 8 barely break 100k in Japan and don't even have an NA localization confirmed shows how f*cked up the industry is going.
I've never played an Ys game before but from what I read/see it's a great series, and I'm really looking forward to Ys VIII for PS4. If it's not coming to the West, I'd probably cry.
You can play Ys 7 or Ys Memories of Celceta on PS Vita now, if you have one.
I'd say both still holds up as nice little games.
Anything before is too different, though they are not bad games.
Japanese games are doing well. I wouldnt be surprised if they just hit a slump last gen, and just were more invested into handhelds.
@charizard1605: RE7 has a western writer, Nioh is rooted in Dark Souls and Diablo (both whose roots are in Ultima Underworld).
And FFXV is no match for The Witcher 3 commercially and critically.
Lololololol.
Dark Souls is heavily rooted in other japanese works, such as Berserk (hell, it is basically an unofficial Berserk game). Diablo is NOT rooted in Ultima Underworld, how the heck could you come to that conclusion? Have you ever heard of Moria? Angband? Nethack?
This is why I have repeatedly stated that Ultima's influence is vastly overrated. Because you keep crediting Ultima, even when it deserves no credit.
@Maroxad: And Berserk is heavily influenced by Hellraiser and other Western dark fantasy including Warhammer probably.
Just pointing out there.
Yeah.
But my point is, that TGR is trying to credit everything to Ultima. It is getting rather silly at this point.
Odd what happens when you make some decent quality games that people want to play and don't just fulfill the status quo.
@Maroxad: And Berserk is heavily influenced by Hellraiser and other Western dark fantasy including Warhammer probably.
Just pointing out there.
Yeah.
But my point is, that TGR is trying to credit everything to Ultima. It is getting rather silly at this point.
Never played Ultima.I think I have Ultima something on GOG tho.
@Maroxad: And Berserk is heavily influenced by Hellraiser and other Western dark fantasy including Warhammer probably.
Just pointing out there.
Yeah.
But my point is, that TGR is trying to credit everything to Ultima. It is getting rather silly at this point.
Never played Ultima.I think I have Ultima something on GOG tho.
Some of them are pretty good, others have aged like milk
Good
5, 6, 7.1, 7.2, Underworld 1, Underworld 2
Aged Like Milk
1, 2, 3, 4, Online (By adding Trammel, the game lost what made it so good)
Some of course, were always bad,
8, 9
@Maroxad: I have 4, World of Ultima, World of Adventure 2
Ahh, I never played the two World of Ultima games, but they are based on the Ultima 6 engine.
U6 as stated, is a pretty good game, if you can make the investment to learn their rather clunky controls and UI.
Ultima 4 was a very novel idea at the time, and a huge step forward for the RPG genre at release. Basically, it was at the time of launch, arguably the RPG that did the best job of really immersing you in the world. There was no bad guy to defeat. Instead, you were on a quest of enlightenment. And the goal was to max your alignments and doing specific tasks in a non-linear manner before finally doing the final challenge in which you would become the avatar.
But as amazing it was at its time, it was massively superseded by following titles, both in the ultima series and outside.
Sh*t like this earns tons of money whileactual good games like Ys 8 barely break 100k in Japan and don't even have an NA localization confirmed shows how f*cked up the industry is going.
I've never played an Ys game before but from what I read/see it's a great series, and I'm really looking forward to Ys VIII for PS4. If it's not coming to the West, I'd probably cry.
You can play Ys 7 or Ys Memories of Celceta on PS Vita now, if you have one.
I'd say both still holds up as nice little games.
Anything before is too different, though they are not bad games.
No Vita but I was planning to get one, and one of the exclusive games I wanted to play is Ys Memory of Celceta.
Wait a sec. Broke even in first 24 hours...what about after the 24 hours? All profits then, it's not like they lost money apparently and no doubt Square likely invested a crazy amount of money into this to begin with.
@Maroxad: And Berserk is heavily influenced by Hellraiser and other Western dark fantasy including Warhammer probably.
Just pointing out there.
Yeah.
But my point is, that TGR is trying to credit everything to Ultima. It is getting rather silly at this point.
Never played Ultima.I think I have Ultima something on GOG tho.
Some of them are pretty good, others have aged like milk
Good
5, 6, 7.1, 7.2, Underworld 1, Underworld 2
Aged Like Milk
1, 2, 3, 4, Online (By adding Trammel, the game lost what made it so good)
Some of course, were always bad,
8, 9
The NES version of IV has not. Its the best way to play IV now.
Pretty good news, FFXV is fantastic
Japanese games are doing well. I wouldnt be surprised if they just hit a slump last gen, and just were more invested into handhelds.
@charizard1605: RE7 has a western writer, Nioh is rooted in Dark Souls and Diablo (both whose roots are in Ultima Underworld).
And FFXV is no match for The Witcher 3 commercially and critically.
Lololololol.
Dark Souls is heavily rooted in other japanese works, such as Berserk (hell, it is basically an unofficial Berserk game). Diablo is NOT rooted in Ultima Underworld, how the heck could you come to that conclusion? Have you ever heard of Moria? Angband? Nethack?
This is why I have repeatedly stated that Ultima's influence is vastly overrated. Because you keep crediting Ultima, even when it deserves no credit.
Ummm...did you miss that I also gave credit to Wizardry and Dungeon Master?
Dark Souls is rooted in these old dungeon crawlers and I mention Ultima underworld the most because that's what King's Field resembles.
And Diablo is influenced by Ultima Underworld, nevermind taking things from Ultima VIII Pagan. Rob Pardo is a huge fan of the game.
And denying Looking Glass's impact (not just Ultima Underworld, but System Shock) on today's games is ignorance.
Ummm...did you miss that I also gave credit to Wizardry and Dungeon Master?
Dark Souls is rooted in these old dungeon crawlers and I mention Ultima underworld the most because that's what King's Field resembles.
And Diablo is influenced by Ultima Underworld, nevermind taking things from Ultima VIII Pagan. Rob Pardo is a huge fan of the game.
And denying Looking Glass's impact (not just Ultima Underworld, but System Shock) on today's games is ignorance.
Nobody is denying Looking Glass's impact. However Diablo was NOT inspired by Ultima Underworld. That assertion is just stupid beyond belief. Being a fan of something does not mean inspiration, especially when all the developer quotes concern themselves with primarily angband and moria. Nethack was also mentioned. Hell, Diablo was essentially a roguelike, but with action combat, multiplayer, less attention to detail and no default permadeath.
Give credit where its due. It really makes me suspect you havent played these games.
The NES version of IV has not. Its the best way to play IV now.
Oh but it has. Since the NES version does not fix why Ultima 4 has aged like milk.
The reasons for it aging like milk is that it is so heavily superseded. Other games do the whole throw you in a world and let you live and roleplay in it a lot more meaningfully, while also being a HELL lot less grindy. Notably, Ultima 7.
Show Ultima 4 to the modern audience, and quite frankly, the game will be interpreted as a colossal grind. For its time, it was arguably one of, if not the best non-tabletop RPG ever made. It was so far ahead of its time it would take jRPGs years to catch up. However, Ultima 4 was also a pioneer, and many of its developments and concepts with developers finding far superior solutions to the problems Ultima 4 tackled.
You can play Ys 7 or Ys Memories of Celceta on PS Vita now, if you have one.
I'd say both still holds up as nice little games.
Anything before is too different, though they are not bad games.
No Vita but I was planning to get one, and one of the exclusive games I wanted to play is Ys Memory of Celceta.
I'd say Memories of Celceta is one of the weaker Ys titles, but it's still one of the best JRPGs on Vita. However, I'm not sure whether finding a copy is an option now.... it was rare when I found it in 2014.
The NES version of IV has not. Its the best way to play IV now.
Oh but it has. Since the NES version does not fix why Ultima 4 has aged like milk.
The reasons for it aging like milk is that it is so heavily superseded. Other games do the whole throw you in a world and let you live and roleplay in it a lot more meaningfully, while also being a HELL lot less grindy. Notably, Ultima 7.
Show Ultima 4 to the modern audience, and quite frankly, the game will be interpreted as a colossal grind. For its time, it was arguably one of, if not the best non-tabletop RPG ever made. It was so far ahead of its time it would take jRPGs years to catch up. However, Ultima 4 was also a pioneer, and many of its developments and concepts with developers finding far superior solutions to the problems Ultima 4 tackled.
The NES version took a lot of the grind out, its much faster.
Ummm...did you miss that I also gave credit to Wizardry and Dungeon Master?
Dark Souls is rooted in these old dungeon crawlers and I mention Ultima underworld the most because that's what King's Field resembles.
And Diablo is influenced by Ultima Underworld, nevermind taking things from Ultima VIII Pagan. Rob Pardo is a huge fan of the game.
And denying Looking Glass's impact (not just Ultima Underworld, but System Shock) on today's games is ignorance.
Nobody is denying Looking Glass's impact. However Diablo was NOT inspired by Ultima Underworld. That assertion is just stupid beyond belief. Being a fan of something does not mean inspiration, especially when all the developer quotes concern themselves with primarily angband and moria. Nethack was also mentioned. Hell, Diablo was essentially a roguelike, but with action combat, multiplayer, less attention to detail and no default permadeath.
Give credit where its due. It really makes me suspect you havent played these games.
Its not similar, I will give you that and they were indeed inspired by past games, however, they were still also influenced by UU (its not as strong, yes, but its there).....and lets not forget that Diablo has similarities to Ultima VIII Pagan. Why not call Diablo, Pyros? So it does have Ultima influence.
I am giving credit to where its due.
FFXV is such a garbage game that this trash selling so much it only serves to confirm that the masses have incredibly awful taste and you should never trust it.
This game's world is empty, the story is unfinished even more so than MGSV's, the battle system is completely braindead and pointless worse than Kingdom Hearts 2's on the PS2. The dungeons are all the fucking same and empty... I hate and I'm telling you, I hate FF13 with a passion but I would take that terrible game any day of the week over FFXV. Goddammit what a fucking garbage game! Nothing pisses me off more than seeing trash like FFXV succeed. Like seriously, you have to be out of your goddamn mind to think that this game is anything but rushed diarrhea.
The NES version took a lot of the grind out, its much faster.
Its not similar, I will give you that and they were indeed inspired by past games, however, they were still also influenced by UU.....and lets not forget that Diablo has similarities to Ultima VIII Pagan. Why not call Diablo, Pyros? So it does have Ultima influence.
http://ultimacodex.com/2013/01/ultima-8-and-diablo/
I am giving credit to where its due.
Moving the goalpost. You talked about Ultima Underworld, and then you moved to Ultima 8. As for the blog you linked. That is not evidence. Those were people linking similarities. Hell, what inspired Diablo's perspective and UI was none other than X-Com. Similarities != Inspiration.
Dont take assertions as facts. And lol at the guy stating that Ultima invented computer RPGs. Talk about not doing his research.
As for U4 NES. Sure it is less grindy. But the game still has you achieve your goals via grinding. Later Ultima games never really felt grindy at all.
The NES version took a lot of the grind out, its much faster.
Its not similar, I will give you that and they were indeed inspired by past games, however, they were still also influenced by UU.....and lets not forget that Diablo has similarities to Ultima VIII Pagan. Why not call Diablo, Pyros? So it does have Ultima influence.
http://ultimacodex.com/2013/01/ultima-8-and-diablo/
I am giving credit to where its due.
Moving the goalpost. You talked about Ultima Underworld, and then you moved to Ultima 8. As for the blog you linked. That is not evidence. Those were people linking similarities. Hell, what inspired Diablo's perspective and UI was none other than X-Com. Similarities != Inspiration.
Dont take assertions as facts. And lol at the guy stating that Ultima invented computer RPGs. Talk about not doing his research.
As for U4 NES. Sure it is less grindy. But the game still has you achieve your goals via grinding. Later Ultima games never really felt grindy at all.
Diablo is similar to the Slasher of Veils as well. Basically, Diablo takes cues from the Stygian Abyss and Pagan settings.
Ultima did set the foundation for CRPGs, it did not invent them, but it is the most influential after Wizardry's initial impact.
But U4 also has its sense of adventure, so while there is some grind, that doesn't mean it isn't playable today. It has less grind than most JRPGs.
The NES version took a lot of the grind out, its much faster.
Its not similar, I will give you that and they were indeed inspired by past games, however, they were still also influenced by UU.....and lets not forget that Diablo has similarities to Ultima VIII Pagan. Why not call Diablo, Pyros? So it does have Ultima influence.
http://ultimacodex.com/2013/01/ultima-8-and-diablo/
I am giving credit to where its due.
Moving the goalpost. You talked about Ultima Underworld, and then you moved to Ultima 8. As for the blog you linked. That is not evidence. Those were people linking similarities. Hell, what inspired Diablo's perspective and UI was none other than X-Com. Similarities != Inspiration.
Dont take assertions as facts. And lol at the guy stating that Ultima invented computer RPGs. Talk about not doing his research.
As for U4 NES. Sure it is less grindy. But the game still has you achieve your goals via grinding. Later Ultima games never really felt grindy at all.
Diablo is similar to the Slasher of Veils as well. Basically, Diablo takes cues from the Stygian Abyss and Pagan settings.
Ultima did set the foundation for CRPGs, it did not invent them, but it is the most influential after Wizardry's initial impact.
But U4 also has its sense of adventure, so while there is some grind, that doesn't mean it isn't playable today. It has less grind than most JRPGs.
No it doesnt. The setting and atmosphere of Diablo kinda reeks of that found in roguelikes at the time. http://www.whoinspired.com/wiki/Diablo
Setting the ofundation does not mean invent them. The guy said invent them.
@Maroxad: Yet the depiction of the setting and the characters is very similar to that of the Ultima series, especially the Stygian Abyss and Pagan.
Settings like what I listed were around in fantasy tales, but its how Diablo depicts them that are too similar not to be influenced by it.
@Maroxad: Yet the depiction of the setting and the characters is very similar to that of the Ultima series, especially the Stygian Abyss and Pagan.
Settings like what I listed were around in fantasy tales, but its how Diablo depicts them that are too similar not to be influenced by it.
The depiction of the setting in Diablo is akin to early roguelikes. Hell, it is very Moria like, right down to the whole starting in a town before entering the one dungeon. As for how Diablo is designed, that is a pretty common depictions of demons. You should probably stop with the mental gymnastics already. You already won the gold medal.
Edit: But lets get real here.
There is both plenty of western and eastern design philsophies in modern RPGs, especially jRPGs, who are mainly a blend of btoh old school jrpg design and more modernized western design. That is kinda how evolution works.
@Maroxad: Yet the depiction of the setting and the characters is very similar to that of the Ultima series, especially the Stygian Abyss and Pagan.
Settings like what I listed were around in fantasy tales, but its how Diablo depicts them that are too similar not to be influenced by it.
The depiction of the setting in Diablo is akin to early roguelikes. Hell, it is very Moria like, right down to the whole starting in a town before entering the one dungeon. As for how Diablo is designed, that is a pretty common depictions of demons. You should probably stop with the mental gymnastics already. You already won the gold medal.
Edit: But lets get real here.
There is both plenty of western and eastern design philsophies in modern RPGs, especially jRPGs, who are mainly a blend of btoh old school jrpg design and more modernized western design. That is kinda how evolution works.
However once again, how it depicts it is close to how Ultima VIII does it to where it is clearly influenced. Once again, people are going to make that connection, enough to where some felt it is a ripoff.
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