First PlayStation 5 Rumors Point To 8-Core Zen CPU and Navi GPU - Lots of Devkits Already Out

Newest rumour is that Navi is not a high end GPU architecture think of it as a new Polaris chip. With rumoured performance of the chip to be on par with a GTX 1080... But the good thing is that it will probably run a lot better and cost around $250 so PC gamers can rejoice at this news but console gamers waiting for the PS5?... Its a HUGE step up from the standard PS4/X1 but its not that far from the X1X in terms of GPU performance obviously the 16GB GDDR6 and Zen cores will help overall performance.

Honestly it looks pretty great in terms of price to performance, a $400-500 console with GTX 1080 performance. Not bad... But if you already have a PC you can probably just get the Navi card for $250 and bam PS5 performance.

Looks like mining is fading off its peak so prices by the time the PS5 comes out will stabilise and it will be back to the good old days for PC gaming.

It would be an amazing generational jump if we can manage a 9-10 tflop gpu in there. And is that 16gb confirmed? The CPU will be the biggest gain factor. Will be interesting to see what dynamic gameplay elements developers can come up with with such cpu power. If it is anything close to the recently released 2700x we are in for a real treat.

@jahnee: 16GB is more less confirmed by basic common sense and knowledge of the state of the industry, Anything more than 16GB is too costly for a console and offers little to no advantage and HBM2 is also very costly and GDDR6 offers similar bandwidth but is a lot cheaper to manufacture.

Zen will help consoles out a LOT.

• 8 core Picasso Zen2 CPU (2x 4 cores on one die based off Raven Ridge)
• 16GB Samsung GDDR6
• Navi 150w GTX 1080 equivilent chip
• 1TB-2TB SSHD 5400RPM or 7200RPM 2.5"
• 4K Bluray

The Ram and HDD depend on the target price of the console and if they want to break even or take a loss.

I predict a $450-500 console.

EDIT:

Anything close to 2700x?...

Not even close, the 2700X is 105w CPU, consoles by EU law cannot exceed 200w. So that means they HAVE to use a low powered Zen chip meaning it WILL be a APU/Mobile zen chip... Something like a 2200/2400G with a lower core clock to keep the temp's and TDP under 30w because you need to save space for a 150w GPU which also will be on the same die... meaning neither will run at full force due to TDP and heat dissapation.

Creating a console is not as simple as throwing in parts, there are laws... Prices... TDP's... and Heat to worry about. You push the clock to far you have heat issues so you have to spend more money on better cooling meaning you have less money for other componants... Its tricky.

Zen2 8 core APU/CPU at 2- 2.5GHz would give you that 30w TDP or lower target.

Remember Zen is still beaten by i5 4 core CPU's due to the higher frequincies and stronger per core performance. A i5 6600K at 4.5Ghz destroys a 4Ghz 1700X unless its a game coded to use more than 4 cores... So a 2.5Ghz Zen based CPU is not impressive by even today's PC standards even for gaming, BUT it will do and is better than what the current consoles have.

Glue two RX-480 together. It's a die shrink Vega 64 level GPU into RX-480/RX-580's 232 mm2 die size.

RX-680 ~= Vega 64 ~= GTX 1080.

AMD already shifted Vega 64's 64 ROPS setup into mainstream Vega 24. Vega 24's 3.8 TFLOPS needs more TFLOPS and 7 nm process tech can deliver Vega 64's TFLOPS at RX-580's size chip.

Vega 64's 7nm replacement is something else.

RX-480/RX-580 has effectively used last gen Tonga GPU design with slightly higher CU, high clock speed, better memory compression and 256 bit GDDR5-8000 memory setup.

Vega 56/64 used the newer GPU design with tile cache rendering.

Navi GPU eq GTX 1080 = 250 $

Zen CPU/APU= 50-75$

12-16 GDR6 RAM = ???

Power Supply = ??

Motherboard or Electronic Circuit on Console = ???

DVD Player = ??

Heat Sink and Air Cooler = ???

Plastic Box , adapter Cable, and Controller =??

Cost of Development and Research =???

Cost of Manufacturing = ???

Marketing and Distribution =???

How many Dollar loss SONY willing to take for PS5?

As long PS5's 7nm APU chip size is similar to PS4's 28nm 348 mm2 or PS4 Pro's 16nm 321 mm2 chip size.

it wont, because it is 7nm not 16 or 28

They dont buy at retail prices.

The $250 gpu price in retail includes profit from the GPU manufacturer, the retailer and the GPU board partner like Asus for example with the price of cooler and packaging included.

A retail GPU with the $250 would cost less than half of that for a console manufacturer to buy raw chips from AMD, this applies to all the componants in a build its why consoles cant be matched when it comes to price and performance.

• Navi/Zen SOC = $150-180
• GDDR6 16GB = $50-60
• PSU = $20-25
• fans/case = $20-30
• Custom Motherboard = $50
• 4K Bluray drive = $50-60

Could cost anywhere from $340 to $405.... This is just a example, I don't know the exact prices. The usually break even so if its a $400 console on shelf they probably sell them for $350 to the retailer who then sells it for $400, meaning the console cost $340 ish to manufacture.

60 $ for 16 GB GDR6?? are you sure, you can't even 16 GB ddr4 for the same price, even though ddr4 already release few years ago. 250 dollar is the founders edition price, which amd sold to other manufacture, ASUS, MSI, etc gpu version cost more than founder edition. That is why half of the 500$ of X is from GPU cost

All console always sold at loss (Unless you talk about Nintendo), it is just how many dollar they are willing to give, that is why game get rarely discount and gamer must pay for online service to cover loss at hardware sales. Nothing special it is just how the business work

@drserigala: Again don't confuse retail price with what Sony and MS pay. Also DDR is system RAM is sold in retail and to partners, GDDR isn't sold in retail... There is no packaging, shipping, marketing, retail profit margins and so on to worry about its strictly manufacturing prices with deals made to satisfy both parties... GDDR6 sold from Samsung to Sony for a PS5 would be huge bulk purchase amounts so individual units would cost SIGNIFICANTLY less than you could imagine.

I have worked along side some who works for Pentax and I can tell you I got deals for Camera bodies from him directly at the prices they sell to retailers and the difference between that price and what a average consumer pay's is 25-35% less.

Remember they buy from manufactuers for parts in bulk amounts they do not buy from retail... Otherwise consoles would be 1/3rd the performance they are currently at.

I would guess that the launch price will be around £349.99.

Seems like the Navi rumours replacing the RX polaris line could be true as GCN is limited to 64 compute units... and the Vega 64 has already hit that limit so I assume that Navi the PS5 model will run like digital foundry states with less than 64 compute units with a lower core clock with the only advantage being the TDP since its a 7nm process vs 14nm in Vega.

2020-2021 my guess, also really dumb if not full bc. I would like them to drop base consoles and keep going with pro and x along side the next boxes. Seems like common sense but Sony have been dicks with bc.

That would be too risky, by the time 2021 rolls around AMD would be rolling out their Next Gen line of graphics architecture. In order to stay relevant they would have to launch prior to that... I say 2020 Christmas the latest, but could be 2019 also if they start production by the end of this year if all the parts fall in place(excuse the pun) with GDDR6/Navi production yeilds.

Interesting to note though that a year after the release of the PS5 its hardware will already be old due to them launching a system with a GPU architecture that is literally on its last cycle with GCN, it will be just like the PS4/X1 being out classed from the get go by mid range GPU's like the HD 7950 and a year later being matched by entry level gaming cards like the GTX 750 Ti.

That said $400 is $400 can't argue with the performance you get especially when the companies are breaking even or selling at a loss.

@drserigala: PS4 and PS4 Pro were never sold at a loss. You forget Sony is a hardware company with ties to other hardware companies who are purchasing these components by the millions... They're going to get them for cheap.

I doubt Navi GPU will have a GTX1080 performance. Considering the price, the desktop version of NAVI GPU will be 250$, but Sony can not afford a 250$ gpu for a 500$ console. So, most likely, they will gimp Navi GPU to a GTX 1070 performance to reduce the cost. Honestly, if in 2020 PS5 will only have 1070 performance, a 4 year old gpu by then, that kinda sucks.

Still no 4k and 60fps for the next gen of consoles. And the graphics won't leap that much compared to today.

What a stupid prediction. Scorpio is already 1070 performance at 4k resolution

@GioVela2010 said:

@ivangrozny said:

I doubt Navi GPU will have a GTX1080 performance. Considering the price, the desktop version of NAVI GPU will be 250$, but Sony can not afford a 250$ gpu for a 500$ console. So, most likely, they will gimp Navi GPU to a GTX 1070 performance to reduce the cost. Honestly, if in 2020 PS5 will only have 1070 performance, a 4 year old gpu by then, that kinda sucks.

Still no 4k and 60fps for the next gen of consoles. And the graphics won't leap that much compared to today.

What a stupid prediction. Scorpio is already 1070 performance at 4k resolution

Only in your dreams. GTX 1070 can do 4k and 60 fps at high settings. Xbox One X is only 30 fps. Xbox One X performance is equivalent to gtx 1060. Gtx 1060 does 4k and 30 fps in Far Cry 5, which basically matches One X

@ivangrozny said:

@GioVela2010 said:

@ivangrozny said:

I doubt Navi GPU will have a GTX1080 performance. Considering the price, the desktop version of NAVI GPU will be 250$, but Sony can not afford a 250$ gpu for a 500$ console. So, most likely, they will gimp Navi GPU to a GTX 1070 performance to reduce the cost. Honestly, if in 2020 PS5 will only have 1070 performance, a 4 year old gpu by then, that kinda sucks.

Still no 4k and 60fps for the next gen of consoles. And the graphics won't leap that much compared to today.

What a stupid prediction. Scorpio is already 1070 performance at 4k resolution

Only in your dreams. GTX 1070 can do 4k and 60 fps at high settings. Xbox One X is only 30 fps. Xbox One X performance is equivalent to gtx 1060. Gtx 1060 does 4k and 30 fps in Far Cry 5, which basically matches One X

GTX 1060 cannot run Far Cry 5 at X1X settings and lock 30 FPS.

And GTX 1070 is not twice as powerful as a 1060..

My claim is based on 28 nm process tech at 348 mm2 size chip vs 16 nm process tech at 321 mm2 size chip price pattern.

PS5's APU with 7 nm process tech could have 321 mm2 to 348 mm2

PS4's GPU = 212 mm2 Pitcairn based at 28 nm with elements from Hawaii's 8 ACE units IP block.

PS4 Pro's GPU = 232 mm2 Polaris based at 16 nm with elements from Vega RPM IP block.

Sony doesn't like stock PC GPU offers, hence Sony adds surprises into the mix. PS4 devs (for Horizon Dawn) was surprised with PS4 Pro's Vega RPM features.

Don't compare retail GDDR4 memory price against ODM level memory price.

@ivangrozny said:

@GioVela2010 said:

@ivangrozny said:

I doubt Navi GPU will have a GTX1080 performance. Considering the price, the desktop version of NAVI GPU will be 250$, but Sony can not afford a 250$ gpu for a 500$ console. So, most likely, they will gimp Navi GPU to a GTX 1070 performance to reduce the cost. Honestly, if in 2020 PS5 will only have 1070 performance, a 4 year old gpu by then, that kinda sucks.

Still no 4k and 60fps for the next gen of consoles. And the graphics won't leap that much compared to today.

What a stupid prediction. Scorpio is already 1070 performance at 4k resolution

Only in your dreams. GTX 1070 can do 4k and 60 fps at high settings. Xbox One X is only 30 fps. Xbox One X performance is equivalent to gtx 1060. Gtx 1060 does 4k and 30 fps in Far Cry 5, which basically matches One X

According to Digital Foundry, both RX-580 and GTX 1060 wasn't able to match Xbox One X's 4K solid 30 fps results.

Xbox One X's result is between GTX 1070 and RX-580/GTX 1060 which could be GTX 980 TI FE or R9-Fury Pro range.

@ronvalencia said:

@ivangrozny said:

@GioVela2010 said:

What a stupid prediction. Scorpio is already 1070 performance at 4k resolution

Only in your dreams. GTX 1070 can do 4k and 60 fps at high settings. Xbox One X is only 30 fps. Xbox One X performance is equivalent to gtx 1060. Gtx 1060 does 4k and 30 fps in Far Cry 5, which basically matches One X

For Far Cry 5, according to Digital Foundry, both RX-580 and GTX 1060 wasn't able to match Xbox One X's 4K solid 30 fps results.

at the same settings?

7 nm is twice the density over 14 nm or 16 nm silicon.

PS4 Pro's is 2.3X over the original PS4 when it shifted from 28 nm to 16 nm.

A full NAVI $250 segment requires all CU to be operational and some CUs needs to disabled for yield issues on game consoles.

@drlostrib said:

@ronvalencia said:

@ivangrozny said:

@GioVela2010 said:

What a stupid prediction. Scorpio is already 1070 performance at 4k resolution

Only in your dreams. GTX 1070 can do 4k and 60 fps at high settings. Xbox One X is only 30 fps. Xbox One X performance is equivalent to gtx 1060. Gtx 1060 does 4k and 30 fps in Far Cry 5, which basically matches One X

For Far Cry 5, according to Digital Foundry, both RX-580 and GTX 1060 wasn't able to match Xbox One X's 4K solid 30 fps results.

at the same settings?

Affirmative. Digital Foundry configured RX-580's and GTX 1060's graphics settings into X1X's graphics settings and both PC GPUs failed to match Xbox One X's solid 30 fps 4K results.

4K resolution hammers memory bandwidth.

I always read those hardware specs before hopping to bed with my GF. It really helps with my perfomance!

I've always found hardware specs rather arousing. Apart from Xbone specs, that is.

@ronvalencia said:

@drlostrib said:

@ronvalencia said:

@ivangrozny said:

@GioVela2010 said:

What a stupid prediction. Scorpio is already 1070 performance at 4k resolution

Only in your dreams. GTX 1070 can do 4k and 60 fps at high settings. Xbox One X is only 30 fps. Xbox One X performance is equivalent to gtx 1060. Gtx 1060 does 4k and 30 fps in Far Cry 5, which basically matches One X

For Far Cry 5, according to Digital Foundry, both RX-580 and GTX 1060 wasn't able to match Xbox One X's 4K solid 30 fps results.

at the same settings?

Affirmative. Digital Foundry configured RX-580's and GTX 1060's graphics settings into X1X's graphics settings and both PC GPUs failed to match Xbox One X's solid 30 fps 4K results.

4K resolution hammers memory bandwidth.

Digital Foundry is not always 100% right. There are plenty of benchmarks on youtube showing gtx 1060 doing stable 30 fps in Far Cry 5. Probably drivers were updated.

No shit. But 7 nm doesn't make it cheaper. My point stands, PS5 won't be able to afford the gpu to be half the cost of the console. If the desktop version of Navi GPU will offer 1080 performance at 250$, then, for consoles, they will have to go with a cheaper version.

@GioVela2010 said:

@ivangrozny said:

@GioVela2010 said:

@ivangrozny said:

I doubt Navi GPU will have a GTX1080 performance. Considering the price, the desktop version of NAVI GPU will be 250$, but Sony can not afford a 250$ gpu for a 500$ console. So, most likely, they will gimp Navi GPU to a GTX 1070 performance to reduce the cost. Honestly, if in 2020 PS5 will only have 1070 performance, a 4 year old gpu by then, that kinda sucks.

Still no 4k and 60fps for the next gen of consoles. And the graphics won't leap that much compared to today.

What a stupid prediction. Scorpio is already 1070 performance at 4k resolution

Only in your dreams. GTX 1070 can do 4k and 60 fps at high settings. Xbox One X is only 30 fps. Xbox One X performance is equivalent to gtx 1060. Gtx 1060 does 4k and 30 fps in Far Cry 5, which basically matches One X

GTX 1060 cannot run Far Cry 5 at X1X settings and lock 30 FPS.

And GTX 1070 is not twice as powerful as a 1060..

One X being slightly above GTX 1060 doesn't make it match 1070. There is an average 44% of performance difference between 1060 and 1070.

That's quite disappointing if true.

The Vega 64 already delivers GTX 1080 performance. They can slash the price on it by next year to compete with the new line of Nvidia cards. This I why I think the rumour is bogus.

The GTX 1170, which releases this year, will have equal performance to the GTX 1080, while the GTX 1260 (a cheapo budget card), launching in 2020, will likewise have equal or better performance to the GTX 1080. Releasing a $250 GTX 1080 isn't exactly groundbreaking.

https://www.globalfoundries.com/technology-solutions/cmos/performance/7nm-finfet

This technology provides world-class performance, power, area and cost advantages from 7nm scaling. Based on 3D FinFET transistor architecture and optical lithography with EUV compatibility at key levels, 7LP technology delivers more than twice the logic and SRAM density, and either >40% performance boost or >60% total power reduction, compared to 14nm foundry FinFET offerings.

Apply >60 percent improvement on X1X's 6 TFLOPS yields 9.6 TFLOPS,

Apply >60 percent improvement on RX-580's 6.17 TFLOPS yields 9.872 TFLOPS <---------- lands on GTX 1080 range.

X1X's GPU is already better than RX-580/GTX 1060 in Far Cry 5.

$250 price card is RX-580 replacement not Vega 64 replacement.

@ivangrozny said:

@GioVela2010 said:

@ivangrozny said:

@GioVela2010 said:

What a stupid prediction. Scorpio is already 1070 performance at 4k resolution

Only in your dreams. GTX 1070 can do 4k and 60 fps at high settings. Xbox One X is only 30 fps. Xbox One X performance is equivalent to gtx 1060. Gtx 1060 does 4k and 30 fps in Far Cry 5, which basically matches One X

GTX 1060 cannot run Far Cry 5 at X1X settings and lock 30 FPS.

And GTX 1070 is not twice as powerful as a 1060..

One X being slightly above GTX 1060 doesn't make it match 1070. There is an average 44% of performance difference between 1060 and 1070.

1070 is only 29 percent better RX-580. Xbox One X is better than RX-580 and GTX 1060.

Apply Global Foundries's >60 percent power reduction on RX-580 with corresponding clock speed increase, it lands on GTX 1080 range.

Apply Global Foundries's >60 percent power reduction on X1X with corresponding clock speed increase, it lands on GTX 1080 range.

The difference between RX-580 and GTX 1070 is about 21 percent at minimum frame rates and average frame rates.

Add 60 percent improvement for RX-580, it lands on GTX 1080 range

From 28 nm to 16 nm shift, Sony managed to keep $399 price target.

From PS4 Pro, X1X has $499 price target with 4GB extra GDDR5-6800, 384 bit bus PCB(50 percent higher trace lines), 11.5 percent larger silicon with 28.65 percent higher clock speed, UHD-blu-ray drive, 8 GB Flash storage, improved Jaguar CPU with 10 percent higher clock speed and vapour cooling solution.

Did Gamespot retract the lie about the PS5 not playing PS4 games? They just made up crap to get in the discussion.

Vega will be replaced this year with a 12nm refresh... Navi will come out next year to replace Polaris series BUT due to infinity fabric we could see two 60CU chips on one die which would give us 120 CU flagship beast of a GPU that would probably compete against the 1180i, MAYBE!... Chances are we won't see anything flagship till 2020 when AMD release their Next Gen architecture based GPU's.

There's nothing new with linking multiple smaller GPUs e.g. internally, Hawaii has four 7770 type GPUs glued by a single GPC, global data cache sharing, geometry bus and L2 cache (not connected to RBEs)

Diagram doesn't show RBEs being connected to memory controllers. Decoupling RBEs from memory controllers via tile cache improvements may enables scaling.

For Vega and Fury, AMD just adds more CUs for each SE lane instead of adding more lanes. I prefer more lanes, hence increasing RBE (includes ROPS) and geometry units which should yield better scaling.

GTX 980 Ti, 1080 Ti and Titan V has six lanes equivalent. Titan V's TFLOPS scaling vs results gain from GTX 1080 Ti is not good.

Vega 64 at 12 nm has very minor improvements i.e. slightly smaller chip size and slightly higher clock-speed. Vega 64 at 1800 Mhz would be a surprise.

https://www.globalfoundries.com/news-events/press-releases/globalfoundries-introduces-new-12nm-finfet-technology-for-high-performance-applications

The new 12LP technology provides as much as a 15 percent improvement in circuit density and more than a 10 percent improvement in performance over 16/14nm FinFET solutions on the market today

Vega 64 12 nm with 1689 Mhz clock speed air cooled from 1536Mhz wouldn't match GTX 1080 Ti

@ronvalencia: I know its why everyone is frustrated with AMD right now, they are offering zero competition which is the reason why Nvidia is in no rush to put anything new out.

@ivangrozny said:

@GioVela2010 said:

@ivangrozny said:

@GioVela2010 said:

What a stupid prediction. Scorpio is already 1070 performance at 4k resolution

Only in your dreams. GTX 1070 can do 4k and 60 fps at high settings. Xbox One X is only 30 fps. Xbox One X performance is equivalent to gtx 1060. Gtx 1060 does 4k and 30 fps in Far Cry 5, which basically matches One X

GTX 1060 cannot run Far Cry 5 at X1X settings and lock 30 FPS.

And GTX 1070 is not twice as powerful as a 1060..

One X being slightly above GTX 1060 doesn't make it match 1070. There is an average 44% of performance difference between 1060 and 1070.

Slightly above? 1060 can’t even lock 30 FPS with every single setting set to LOW.

X1X Lock’s 30 FPS (10% better minimum frames). While having what is equivalent to all High on PC.

Ive yet to see a 1070 lock 30 FPS on Ultra either. Sure that’s Ultra, but the difference between Ultra and High is just 10% in frame rates

Supposedly there’s a “75% chance” that the PS5 releases in 2020.

By then a Navi/Ryzen based APU to power the console should be available at an affordable price range. Around $400 I’d assume.

Sounds weak. Didn't we say the PS4 would be 8 core?

I feel like next gen will suck.

7 nm Ryzen 3700 may have 16 CPU cores while consoles has 8 embedded Ryzen CPU cores.

Current lowest Ryzen 3 has quad CPU cores with 4 disabled CPU cores i.e. AMD can sell 8 active cores at Ryzen 3 prices.

No clue what you just said.

Give me the 5 year old version.

PC's next year's Ryzen 7-3700 model may have twice the CPU core count over this year's Ryzen 7-2700 model's 8 CPU core count.