Game Demo in New Super Mario Bros Wii will become standard like saving

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]

Didn't you say Mario games were never hardcore?? I agree with that Nintendo games are not really hardcore. So where are the "challenge and punishment" in them???

And by no means I've considered videogames aseducational, but it certainly reflects certain aspects of people.

GreenGoblin2099

Mario isn't hardcore. This isn't to say that I never found it difficult. I wasn't always good at platformers. When I was six I played SMB3 and was stuck on the level before bowsers castle. Took me hours of playing and fustration to beat it. Did it feel good? Yes. Did the hours of fustration do anything for me? No, I didn't enjoy constantly dying. I only continued to play because I wanted to continue and finish the game. By no means did I like that level. If I could have skipped it back then, I may have. With no option but to beat it to move on I had to beat it. Lesson is I may have accomplished somethhing but the only part I liked was that I didn;t have to do it again.

If how I play games reflects on the personality I hold and certain aspects of me then I really have no clue why I am even discussing this with you. Just becaise one will quit in a video game or accept help does not mean they will do the same in reality. What a silly way to judge someone.

It does, even if you don't think so...

Here's a lil article so you can get an idea.

http://www.economist.com/sciencetechnology/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13726738

Bottom line:

"The upshot of both studies is that video games are like any other medium. Feed the user with aggressive thoughts and you risk making him aggressive. Feed him with the milk of human kindness and the opposite will probably happen. No great surprise, perhaps. But a salutary reminder both that the older generation should not rush to judgment on youthful habits it does not understand, and that the medium is not always the message."

Apply Demo stuff and see what you get.

;)

Apply super guide : "People get to finish the game they spent money on, without disturbing other people's enjoyment of the game"

Don't apply super guide: "People can't finish the game, kept dying at the same area, (Feed the user with aggressive thoughts and you risk making him aggressive), people gets grumpy and pick up another game to play" (there are SO many selections of games for people these day, if you can't finish it, people will simply switch which is giving the same lesson as super guide.

And going with your logic, I can tell a lot from a person that's against Super guide, and like I said many times before, it won't affect you in any ways, why would you care? Future generation? Don't make me laugh, school and parents are way more influential than video games.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]

Didn't you say Mario games were never hardcore?? I agree with that Nintendo games are not really hardcore. So where are the "challenge and punishment" in them???

And by no means I've considered videogames aseducational, but it certainly reflects certain aspects of people.

GreenGoblin2099

Mario isn't hardcore. This isn't to say that I never found it difficult. I wasn't always good at platformers. When I was six I played SMB3 and was stuck on the level before bowsers castle. Took me hours of playing and fustration to beat it. Did it feel good? Yes. Did the hours of fustration do anything for me? No, I didn't enjoy constantly dying. I only continued to play because I wanted to continue and finish the game. By no means did I like that level. If I could have skipped it back then, I may have. With no option but to beat it to move on I had to beat it. Lesson is I may have accomplished somethhing but the only part I liked was that I didn;t have to do it again.

If how I play games reflects on the personality I hold and certain aspects of me then I really have no clue why I am even discussing this with you. Just becaise one will quit in a video game or accept help does not mean they will do the same in reality. What a silly way to judge someone.

It does, even if you don't think so...

Here's a lil article so you can get an idea.

http://www.economist.com/sciencetechnology/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13726738

Bottom line:

"The upshot of both studies is that video games are like any other medium. Feed the user with aggressive thoughts and you risk making him aggressive. Feed him with the milk of human kindness and the opposite will probably happen. No great surprise, perhaps. But a salutary reminder both that the older generation should not rush to judgment on youthful habits it does not understand, and that the medium is not always the message."

Apply Demo stuff and see what you get.

;)

This article said that if you let someone plsy aggressive games they will in turn be more aggressive andessentially if they play helping games they will help. Well duh, if I am watching an action movie, I'm not going to be in asad mood, I'mgoing to be in an actiony mood.It does nothing to say that if I want to use a guide to finish my game, I am now a lazy person.That is a stretch.Again, how I play my games does not reflect who I am as a person. Forgive me but 2 studies cannot conclude that I am now subject to a stereotype based on how I enjoy something in my spare time. No, like I said, that's ridiculous and I'm not going to extrapolate Super Guide to come up with a conclusion.

This article said that if you let someone plsy aggressive games they will in turn be more aggressive andessentially if they play helping games they will help. Well duh, if I am watching an action movie, I'm not going to be in asad mood, I'mgoing to be in an actiony mood.It does nothing to say that if I want to use a guide to finish my game, I am now a lazy person.ActicEdge

That is correct sir.

But appliying Demo to kids, well kids are like sponges, what tells you it won't have any significant influence on their lives to have games where you can just skip stuff you can't do. PErseverance could be banished.

That is a stretch.Again, how I play my games does not reflect who I am as a person. Forgive me but 2 studies cannot conclude that I am now subject to a stereotype based on how I enjoy something in my spare time. No, like I said, that's ridiculous and I'm not going to extrapolate Super Guide to come up with a conclusion.

ActicEdge

It does. Every single aspect of your life tells a bit about you even the way you have your fun.

I'll give you a lil example:

I'm not really interested in trophies/achievements, but when I get my hands on a game I like to complete them 100% and that implies getting all trophies. I consider myself a completionist and that's how I see myself in life. I want everything I can possibly get.

However I'm well aware of my limits and those games I haven't completed 100% are beyond said limits and that doesn't mean my life is any different. There are certain thing I can't accomplish or are just not worth the trouble.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

This article said that if you let someone plsy aggressive games they will in turn be more aggressive andessentially if they play helping games they will help. Well duh, if I am watching an action movie, I'm not going to be in asad mood, I'mgoing to be in an actiony mood.It does nothing to say that if I want to use a guide to finish my game, I am now a lazy person.GreenGoblin2099

That is correct sir.

But appliying Demo to kids, well kids are like sponges, what tells you it won't have any significant influence on their lives to have games where you can just skip stuff you can't do. PErseverance could be banished.

That is a stretch.Again, how I play my games does not reflect who I am as a person. Forgive me but 2 studies cannot conclude that I am now subject to a stereotype based on how I enjoy something in my spare time. No, like I said, that's ridiculous and I'm not going to extrapolate Super Guide to come up with a conclusion.

ActicEdge

It does. Every single aspect of your life tells a bit about you even the way you have your fun.

I'll give you a lil example:

I'm not really interested in trophies/achievements, but when I get my hands on a game I like to complete them 100% and that implies getting all trophies. I consider myself a completionist and that's how I see myself in life. I want everything I can possibly get.

However I'm well aware of my limits and those games I haven't completed 100% are beyond said limits and that doesn't mean my life is any different. There are certain thing I can't accomplish or are just not worth the trouble.

Perseverence in games is not perserverence in reality. Kids are sponges, the ability to skip however is not going to banish perserverence because life isn't a game. Work isn't a game and school isn't a game. You can't "skip" them, it doesn't work that way. Relating the boundries of life to Super Guide is beyond silly.

As far as how you have fun relating to your life, that I disagree on. Not in the context of video games. Video games are designed for the purpose of entertainment, how you find that entertainment is not telling of who you are. I don't think there is a study around that can tell me that because I enjoy shooting Zombies in the head with a shotgun in RE5 and I also enjoy jumping in Koopa's heads in super mario I am a certain type of person with a certain personality. No, I complete games 100% as well because I enjoy it. The satisfaction of fully completing a game and having fun doing it is not telling of my attidue in reality. I don't believe that for a second.

Perseverence in games is not perserverence in reality. Kids are sponges, the ability to skip however is not going to banish perserverence because life isn't a game. Work isn't a game and school isn't a game. You can't "skip" them, it doesn't work that way. Relating the boundries of life to Super Guide is beyond silly.

As far as how you have fun relating to your life, that I disagree on. Not in the context of video games. Video games are designed for the purpose of entertainment, how you find that entertainment is not telling of who you are. I don't think there is a study around that can tell me that because I enjoy shooting Zombies in the head with a shotgun in RE5 and I also enjoy jumping in Koopa's heads in super mario I am a certain type of person with a certain personality. No, I complete games 100% as well because I enjoy it. The satisfaction of fully completing a game and having fun doing it is not telling of my attidue in reality. I don't believe that for a second.

ActicEdge

Ok, I think I see where you're going... but I think you've missed my point.

It's not what kind of games you play, what you find entertaining what gives an idea of who you are (even though I'm certain it could because) it's the choices you make in life.

Competetitive people will choose competitive games and certainly will try to best others. Creative people will choose games that give them the option to get their creativity working. Of course, it doesn't mean they will strictly restrain their gaming to those genres, but you get the idea.

When SFIV came out, I used to go to the GF boards and there were a lot of talking about boosting. Why would anyone boost?? because they'd like to think they are best than the rest of the world but they can't do it on their own merits.

I can give you 1 million examples on how the choices you make in life tell something about you, but I think you should've gotten the idea by now.

Oh and btw, this is doesn't mean you are being steretyped like you've said. In the end it's the sum of all these aspects what shows who you really are.

Oh and btw, this is doesn't mean you are being steretyped like you've said. In the end it's the sum of all these aspects what shows who you really are.GreenGoblin2099

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]Oh and btw, this is doesn't mean you are being steretyped like you've said. In the end it's the sum of all these aspects what shows who you really are.IronBass

I'm not sure if you were trying to bash my logic or agreeing with that... but that's what I said :|

I'm not sure if you were trying to bash my logic or agreeing with that... but that's what I said :|GreenGoblin2099

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]I'm not sure if you were trying to bash my logic or agreeing with that... but that's what I said :|IronBass

Oh, in that case, thanx!

:P

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

So over dramatic.

Do you know how the feature works first of all?

ActicEdge

Yeah I know it's a lil bit, but my point remains the same... after all my point remains the same "you can't handle it, g..t..f..o.."

And yes, I know how it works but difficult settings are there for a reason, so why would Nintendo add this socasual can "enjoy" a game??It's not enjoying at all, it's not playing at all.

I really don't get this forum. I really don't. You have to die eight times in a level to be offered the tutorial. If you can't handle it GFTO? Really? This is your response to what could be a useful feature for people struggling with a part of a game? One thing sbout difficulty settings in a platformer is, they really are worthless. To make the game more difficult the creators are limited to either, decreasing your time to do it, moving obstacles to make the movement more difficult or adding more enemies. You're better off just building an entirely new level than wasting your time artificially making the game more difficult.And again,why does it matter to you how others enjy the game they purchase with their money? They all have to play the same way as you or you're not happy? (shakes head, how ridiculous)

I think it's because the majority of posters on this forum (yourself excluded, you're one of the few that has a brain) are either a) idiots, b) hypocrites, or most likely c) both idiots and hypocrites.

I usually stay away from threads concerning this topic because people can be so melodramatic. its like 'I dont have a Wii and never will but i dont want the game to play itself Nintendo is forcing me to use it because i cant control myself!"

You know what? thats your problem. It was successful in Alone in the Dark and will be in NSMB.Wii. Im expecting this to be huge, to point where next gen, we might have an extra button on the controller dedicated just to this. A save button and a guide button would be amazing.

I think Game Demo is a great idea but it won't become standard.

Cant wait for it. I hope it will be harder than DS version.

This is innovation?! Don't make me laugh. This is called casualization aka catering-to-lazy-people. Tell me what is the point of even calling it a game. Just when you think Wii can't dumb down games anymore. They come up with yet another mind boggling idea. This is ruining gaming to the max. Next up.. 1 button game controllers because who the hell can be bothered pressing buttons? Too tedious. Oh right nearly forgot. Natal Lol. The casualization is spreading after all.

They may aswell put every game in god mode. Hand us all free Action Replays with every game. That would be pretty much equivalent to what Nintendo are trying to do now. Whoever said this was just a prototype they where totally wrong. This is becoming a reality. They bought this crap up when asked about the new Zelda. The next Zelda is going to be a casual piece of crap. Theres no doubt about that now. Casuals ruin games. Stamped and approved.

Nintendo games: Easier and easier each gen.Messiahbolical-

who cares if theyre easier as long as theyre good experiences? single player games have a predetermined outcome; you win. theres no pride to be taken in that (or at least, there shouldnt be). its like giving yourself a pat on the back for managing to do your job to a mediocre standard of performance.

anyway, this feature is 5/5, literally no drawbacks, would like to see how it could be applied to more types of games.

ps: moar lol @ all yall saying you should 'work harder' on beating these games. yeah, ok, good luck with that one. video games arent worth work to a lot of people. to me, yeah, ill take a crack at the tough sections, whatever. but to my children and parents playing this game co-op during a thanksgiving or whatever? you explain to them that they need to 'work harder' on playing a video game. to many people video games are not worth any degree of 'work'. thats perfectly valid.

Whoever says that Nintendo makes games easier and easier each gen hasn't played the latest Punch Out!! or acheived SuperStar status at WSR. Lucia is a freaking demon.

Sorry but Nintendo didn't invent this. Alone In The Dark did.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"]Nintendo games: Easier and easier each gen.Messiahbolical-

If only you actually researched before you talked. It would be better for everyone.

you didn't do your research did you?

Get it through your fanboy head that the feature is OPTIONAL. You don't have to use it!

Because of this nintendo can make their games harder without scaring off their casual fanbase.

Hopefully this will allow Ninty to finally up the difficulty in future Zelda games!

I think peopel should actually read about what this thing is before posting some whiny rant about how "their games will get easier, casuals ruin everything, casuals casual casual, kiddy, not hardcore like me, blah blah blah".

If anything, this means their games are going to get a lot harder, since they will no longer have to worry about less skilled gamers being unable to complete this. Like before Super Mario Galaxy was released, they mentioned the team had toned down the difficulty of the game, and Miyamoto had originally wanted it much harder than it is, but they thought it would alienate too many gamers. Now, they can make it as hard as they like, and if you want your game to be hard, don't use the optional help feature, that is only avalible (and even then, it's just an offer, nothing is making you accept it) once you die 8 times.

And some are going on about how it will let "teh casuals" complete games, taking away from their "achievements". In which case, I must question why you even play games, because it would seem to be so you can blow your own trumpet, and boast about how you completed a hard game that none of those filthy casuals could, and aren't you so great?

Games are for fun, stop taking them so seriously.

I think peopel should actually read about what this thing is before posting some whiny rant about how "their games will get easier, casuals ruin everything, casuals casual casual, kiddy, not hardcore like me, blah blah blah".

If anything, this means their games are going to get a lot harder, since they will no longer have to worry about less skilled gamers being unable to complete this. Like before Super Mario Galaxy was released, they mentioned the team had toned down the difficulty of the game, and Miyamoto had originally wanted it much harder than it is, but they thought it would alienate too many gamers. Now, they can make it as hard as they like, and if you want your game to be hard, don't use the optional help feature, that is only avalible (and even then, it's just an offer, nothing is making you accept it) once you die 8 times.

And some are going on about how it will let "teh casuals" complete games, taking away from their "achievements". In which case, I must question why you even play games, because it would seem to be so you can blow your own trumpet, and boast about how you completed a hard game that none of those filthy casuals could, and aren't you so great?

Games are for fun, stop taking them so seriously.

WTF are people moaning about.

I guess we hermits are all noobs, because Gamefaqs exits, and it's on PC. :shock:..............:lol:

Interesting idea. I can't see it being of any use other than for platformers though.MarthRingman

[QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Damn, for a forum and people who are all opposed to casuals and other sharing their fun they sure do care a lot about how other people enjoy a game.

ActicEdge

Because that wouldn't be enjoying anything... that would be skipping the fun actually.

Skipping that sense of accomplishment you get when you master a game that has given you pain and suffering. Those feeling only a real gamer would know... this Demo stuff only ensures Nintendo will continue degrading gaming to please the casuals.

So over dramatic.

Do you know how the feature works first of all?

QFT....

What most Harda-Corda Gamaga don't understand is, if a game is hard enough that you die more than 10 times on your first try, and first try is always the hardest cause you are trying to get comfortable with the timings and strategies etc, then the game seizes to become fun, rather, it becomes something of an frustration and annoyance. Anyone played F-Zero or Ninja Gaiden? These are truly HARDCORE games and yes, I beat them all. But still, I have no energy to play these games on their hard diffculties cause, well, I'm not dying in a boss fight 20 times again. That kind of grind...I can only take so much. This is why I never ever redone NG on my X360 when I sold my original Xbox....Just don't have the energy or patience for it. All the rest of my Xbox was bought back to "Standard" as my original Xbox....All except NG. Now if NG had this feature, maybe I would not have drop it. But since it don't, I'm not going to throw my controller up against the wall 10 times over cause of me dying in boss fights 30 times over!

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"]Nintendo games: Easier and easier each gen.Bigboi500

This too.

Right now, after SR2, I have even less reason to return to GTA IV. It's simple. I die in SR 2, I start at whatever save point I left off immediately, and get right back into the action. Most importantly, I skip the long ass boring drives that take, it seems sometimes, all day to complete.

I die in GTA IV. Even with Cell phone, I start WAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY back in the begining, drive like a acorn hole to my next point, and if anyone drove cars in GTA IV, you should know that driving in GTA IV is like driving a shopping cart loaded with 10 tons of rock without any suspension. FRUSTRATING AS HELL! Finally, get there, new type of mission begin. Being first time, I die again. So there I go, from the begining again...And what's even more, you also loose the ammo, armor or health from previously failed missions. That had me in rage! It's like R* WANT to punish us by making the game all pretty on the outside, but PAIN on the inside!

So now, let's take all these harda-corda gamaga's attitude to this feature, "Bu...Bu....The game shoulda return to teh begining. It's the, teh "Realism"! It's the what game is all about! Why should u star in teh middle? It's no teh fun! If you can't swallow star in the begining, you teh casualagadagata! You no harda-cordaz! You should leave the gamega to us, the harda-corda gamagas if you can handle the "HARDNESS!"

See what I done there?

Oh god, that terrible idea is coming back? Is it still "innovative" if the result is crap?

If videogames teach kids anything, it's patience and perseverence. Now they're going to buy Mario and have the level beat itself for them? Mario games, as well as most other Nintendo games, are aimed at kids. What are you teaching them now, Nintendo? This is BS.

hakanakumono

Nope!

You are wrong!

Making models teaches kids patience and perseverence.

Video games is all about fun WITHOUT becoming frustraing, especially now when you are older and have..."other commitments".

More than once as a kid, playing Battletoads, I wish I can skip a level to end my frustration. Even today, at NG 2 and others, I wish sometimes the game would just stop punishing me just because I forgot to do something at the correct time. Now, I'll probably play through NSBM Wii the first time without this feature. But If I play through again and stuck in the same area, you bet your ass I will use it if it becomes avalaible. Sorry, I don't know what other world you live in. But I play games for fun, not dying 20 times just to get past a spot, level or boss cause the game keep on hammering me in because I don't know the strategy, timing or the reflex hasn't been develop yet!

[QUOTE="Messiahbolical-"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

If only you actually researched before you talked. It would be better for everyone.

ActicEdge

Mario has never been hardcore. What on earth are you talking about. The sense of accomplishment from beating mario never triuphed the fun I had doing it. That was why I played, for fun, not for some bragging right. Chack points, punishments etc, those aren't part of fun. Those are hinderances. If someone does not want to be hindered for their enjoyment, why on earth should they? We're playing for fun fiorst and foremost, not for gamer cred. I really don't get the mentality that because the feature exists, people are simply not going to play the game at all. No not really, they bought the game to play, the vast majority of people aren't going to abuse it.

While Mario has never been a hardcore game, it certainly contain many hardcore elements. I.e. Super Mario Land. You can rush through the game in like under 10 hours. I've done it in one setting before. But once you get to star road....Man....I didn't realize how TOUGH that was! I still can't believe how I lasted that long as a kid and beat the entire thing! Cause I gave up on the frustration factor alone when I got the GBA version. Again, Super Mario 64. I got a college roommate who said just how Kiddie the game was and he rather play ridge racer and tekken on the PS1 cause it's more "manly". I challenged him to a $200 bet, Super Mario 64, red coin challenge, rainbow road. 2 lives......

After 2 hours, he tossed the controller back in my face and gave me $200 bucks. Forever more, he never ever said Ps1 games are manly when I showed him how to do it! (he was lucky, I didn't chanllenge him to get up the castle roof without beating a single stage!)

Alone in the dark already has a skip feature. It encourages lazy game design more than anything IMO.tomarlyn

Except Alone in the Dark was such a suck ass game from begining to end that they put it in so players can save themselves the though, "Why in the world did I wasted $50 for this craptastic game?!?!?!"

I don't think Nintendo will ruin their #1 franchises.....

My goodness, they practicly take the controller out of you're hand and play the game for you these days with the level of difficulty. How about instead of letting you skip hard parts, you stop crying about how hard a game is and practice untill you can finish it????gasp!

Seriously, If a MARIO game is too hard for you, you should probably just stick with wii sports and wii fit.

That's terrible. If it's too difficult to finish, you can just skip over it? That's basically ignoring game design flaws assuming theu aren't just doimg this for casual gamers. If the later, then it pretty much proves Nintendo dropped the hardcore crowd, at least to some extend. I mean multiple difficulty levels are there for a reason. Hard games need to be hard. Easy games should be easy. I guess considering NSMB co-op gameplay, this could be good but as a standard, it just nerfs games to high hell. Say goodbye to challenging gameplay if that happens.sonicthemegaman

Well, making different levels of difficulites in a platform games would rather nigh difficult. Not immposibble, but rather very diffcult. So far, I haven't seen any level of difficulties in a true platform game, especially 2D....i mean, what you going to do? Make the hole bigger? Enemies that take two stomps to kill? Or...what?

And besides, as so many said, this is an OPTION, and it will only appear after you die 8 times...By that time, the game usually ceases to be fun...It's more frustration by then......

[QUOTE="sonicthemegaman"]That's terrible. If it's too difficult to finish, you can just skip over it? That's basically ignoring game design flaws assuming theu aren't just doimg this for casual gamers. If the later, then it pretty much proves Nintendo dropped the hardcore crowd, at least to some extend. I mean multiple difficulty levels are there for a reason. Hard games need to be hard. Easy games should be easy. I guess considering NSMB co-op gameplay, this could be good but as a standard, it just nerfs games to high hell. Say goodbye to challenging gameplay if that happens.StryderK

Well, making different levels of difficulites in a platform games would rather nigh difficult. Not immposibble, but rather very diffcult. So far, I haven't seen any level of difficulties in a true platform game, especially 2D....i mean, what you going to do? Make the hole bigger? Enemies that take two stomps to kill? Or...what?

And besides, as so many said, this is an OPTION, and it will only appear after you die 8 times...By that time, the game usually ceases to be fun...It's more frustration by then......

Developers shouldn't have to suck up to those people.sonicthemegaman

Developers do whatever they can to make the game more accessible to consumers. If casual gamers don't want to do a certain level, then they can just skip it. Veterans can play it at their own leisure. The game isn't forcing you to skip certain points.

It's similar to changing the difficulty halfway through a game to get past a certain point, like what I used to do when I was playing on a high difficulty, and couldn't finish that certain level.

Once I had finished the playthrough, I would try to repeat it at a higher difficulty, because by then, I would have become more knowledgeable of the game.

[QUOTE="sonicthemegaman"] Developers shouldn't have to suck up to those people.SpinoRaptor24

Developers do whatever they can to make the game more accessible to consumers. If casual gamers don't want to do a certain level, then they can just skip it. Veterans can play it at their own leisure. The game isn't forcing you to skip certain points.

It's similar to changing the difficulty halfway through a game to get past a certain point, like what I used to do when I was playing on a high difficulty, and couldn't finish that certain level.

Once I had finished the playthrough, I would try to repeat it at a higher difficulty, because by then, I would have become more knowledgeable of the game.

Like I've said several times, games are accessible enough.sonicthemegaman

Omg...
Seriously quite the whining it looks interesting. Let's see how it works.
I think they should add some kind of achievement for people who play through it without skipping a part.
That way You avoid the Prince of Persia syndrome.

If you want a more difficult game, that is what difficult setting are for.

Otherwise, while it is really interesting idea, I could see some developers eventually abusing that, and making more games cheap and/or punishing (i.e. Battletoads).