Gaming is degrading fast, who is to blame? Nintendo?

Have you noticed that games are degrading really fast?

"On one hand, you have the overwhelmingly complicated development cycle of games. I grew up in a time where we created side-scrollers with enemies being school teachers which we sawed in half and blew up with grenades. You could get away with several weeks of work and sell it for vodka on floppy disks.

Now you require at least a $10 million development budget (cough-GTA4-DLC-cough) to make SOMETHING for PC/PS3/360. And a whole lot more for something else.

This is probably why companies such as Valve go for "Episodic" content and multiplayer games that demand a lot less resources to be put to risk. Or look at EA pumping same games every year with minor modifications.

The fact is that HARDCORE games as we know them are fading away. They are becoming too expensive to develop and are overshadowed by accessible games for casuals."

"And there it goes, add swearing, cut gameplay = Battlefield Bad Company.

Add cartoonish graphics, cut gameplay even more (screw classes, right? Who needs them) = the new Battlefield console game that I won't even bother to remember the name of.

Yeah, it sells, right? It sure does!

Now let's go even deeper into the "overcomplicated" situation. Do you know where the original battlefield got the ideas from?"

A long article with a lot of examples of degraded games - full read

If good games rarely sell these days, why make them? I know, lets keep churning out Wii Carnival and Wii Cooking!:lol:FirstDiscovery

I challenge you to a cooking mama cook-off

Have you noticed that games are degrading really fast?

"On one hand, you have the overwhelmingly complicated development cycle of games. I grew up in a time where we created side-scrollers with enemies being school teachers which we sawed in half and blew up with grenades. You could get away with several weeks of work and sell it for vodka on floppy disks.

Now you require at least a $10 million development budget (cough-GTA4-DLC-cough) to make SOMETHING for PC/PS3/360. And a whole lot more for something else.

This is probably why companies such as Valve go for "Episodic" content and multiplayer games that demand a lot less resources to be put to risk. Or look at EA pumping same games every year with minor modifications.

The fact is that HARDCORE games as we know them are fading away. They are becoming too expensive to develop and are overshadowed by accessible games for casuals."

"And there it goes, add swearing, cut gameplay = Battlefield Bad Company.

Add cartoonish graphics, cut gameplay even more (screw classes, right? Who needs them) = the new Battlefield console game that I won't even bother to remember the name of.

Yeah, it sells, right? It sure does!

Now let's go even deeper into the "overcomplicated" situation. Do you know where the original battlefield got the ideas from?"

A long article with a lot of examples of degraded games - full read

mynameisdigo

Nintendo was never to blame. Nintendo is the one who we should thanks for trying to save the industry the second time. Look a lot of Devs are in financial trouble right now due to the failure of a lot f HD games they produced in which they though that wil sell, which it didn't. Nintendo offered help to these devs who put 90% of their resources to HD gaming.

These crappy games you see on Wii are giving them profit and perhaps the only consistent part of their portfolio that is earning them profit. So, these fanboys are bashing the Wii for its crappy games, but we hardcore gamers are not the majority revenue stream of the gaming industry. It is casuals. Casuals will always be, and has always been the driving force of the revenue for game developers.

I believe because of this HD hype, knowing that not even majority in the US, and especially the world, owns HDTV, or LCD. They felt alienated or not inclined, or no need to buy these HDTVs which leads them no need to buy HD consoles. Wii became their prefered choice as we saw on the Wii demographics. We hardcore gamers MUST NOT BE SELFISH on denying these casuals their prefered games, whether it's crap or not. So what if they like those crap games, these crap games are giving them profit and in return will help you hardcore gamers to create a HD quality game. Admit it or not, we need the casuals whether you like it or not. We are not that big stream of the the video game economy as much as you think.

If good games rarely sell these days, why make them? I know, lets keep churning out Wii Carnival and Wii Cooking!:lol:FirstDiscovery

So that people recognize your company as making a great game.

We need to act before it's too late! We need to stop this casual Crap! Only way to this is to slice the head off Nintendo!

Viva la Hardcore gamer Revolution!

We need to act before it's too late! We need to stop this casual Crap! Only way to this is to slice the head off Nintendo!zaku101

I dispute the degradation to which you perceive, but assuming it were more than a fabrication, blame would be placed solely upon the consumers.

*adjusts monocle, sips tea*

i blame DLC....seriesly,we have to pay cash JUST for somethings devs didnt make? like costumes? we have to pay 5 bucks to get Gow Costume...just for that... >_> lame,i hate pay'd DLC,ripp off...Ratchet_Fan8

[QUOTE="Ratchet_Fan8"]i blame DLC....seriesly,we have to pay cash JUST for somethings devs didnt make? like costumes? we have to pay 5 bucks to get Gow Costume...just for that... >_> lame,i hate pay'd DLC,ripp off...Aljosa23

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"][QUOTE="Ratchet_Fan8"]i blame DLC....seriesly,we have to pay cash JUST for somethings devs didnt make? like costumes? we have to pay 5 bucks to get Gow Costume...just for that... >_> lame,i hate pay'd DLC,ripp off...Ratchet_Fan8

Have you noticed that games are degrading really fast?

mynameisdigo

I stopped reading here, for my answer is no.

don't blame nintendo. blame dev's, they keep wanting to make games that will become massively mainstream so they can sell alot of copies and make their money back. its a catch 22 because its not cheap to make a game nowadays so you have to appeal to as wide an audience as possible and you tend to overlook the small percentage of really hardcore gamers that consistently want more. i can safely say that had games continued in the direction they were capable of games would be a lot more indepth and a bit more "hardcore" z4twenny

[QUOTE="z4twenny"]don't blame nintendo. blame dev's, they keep wanting to make games that will become massively mainstream so they can sell alot of copies and make their money back. its a catch 22 because its not cheap to make a game nowadays so you have to appeal to as wide an audience as possible and you tend to overlook the small percentage of really hardcore gamers that consistently want more. i can safely say that had games continued in the direction they were capable of games would be a lot more indepth and a bit more "hardcore" FirstDiscovery

[QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"][QUOTE="z4twenny"]don't blame nintendo. blame dev's, they keep wanting to make games that will become massively mainstream so they can sell alot of copies and make their money back. its a catch 22 because its not cheap to make a game nowadays so you have to appeal to as wide an audience as possible and you tend to overlook the small percentage of really hardcore gamers that consistently want more. i can safely say that had games continued in the direction they were capable of games would be a lot more indepth and a bit more "hardcore" Zaistev_basic

Now because of Wii, PS3 is a flop. Now there is nobody to sell games too:|

THE END

[QUOTE="Zaistev_basic"][QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"]Yeah and who was it that bought in the console that took people away from hardcore consoles? Who was it that brought in the console where you can make a game with two brain cells and get it to sell? Like Apple products, Nintendo is an insult to humanity's intelligenceFirstDiscovery

Well PS1 and PS2 used to sell. True, but the technology (non-HD) does NOT require a lot of time to make games comapare to HD, the dev costs are much lower, and the consumers are in the same page. When X360 was released, not everyone was going to jump in to the HD gaming. You cannot blame the Wii for offering an alternative which the casuals really wanted, just because PS3 did not sell well. Sounds like sour grapes. Just because your console did not sell well you blame the one who beats it? If there's to blame, it's the devs for putting all their eggs into one basket and for depending too much on a technology which majority of the consumers does not need.

[QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"][QUOTE="Zaistev_basic"]One day PSone and PS2 were succesful. Games used to sell Now because of Wii, PS3 is a flop. Now there is nobody to sell games too:| THE END If the HD model aka Hollywood model continue as you like, the gaming industry will be asking for bailout already. You have to admit that casuals have their own taste and Wii offered that very well. Casual, again and again, has always been the driving force of the video games industry. Dev are trying to force their HD gaming to the casuals. Guess what, they did not buy it. Devs have put thier resources into one basket. As a result, they are now paying the price and they paid dearly. We hardcore gamer also paid dearly for not understanding that gaming support to be diverse and not just for hardcore. Are you TOO SELFISH that the games you wanted should be only available to the market? Are hardcore gone astray that we lost the true meaning of a gamer?Zaistev_basic

[QUOTE="Zaistev_basic"][QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"]FirstDiscovery

If the Wii not existed, video games as we know it are already asking for a bailout, or worst financial situation than now. Will X360 and PS3 get non-gamers and female consumers into gaming? Not much. Is the First person shooting, Role Playing games that takes more time to play, appealing to the casuals who takes gaming as just a past-time, but not the hobby? Not much either.

Again, stop being a sour grapes. If there is anyone to blame for the financial trouble of video games is us hardcore gamers who demand unrealisitically and selfishly for "EPIC" games in which takes a lot of resources and time that only appeal to us and not to casuals. You cannot deny now that casuals have spoken. Wishing Wii hasn't existed is wishing that casual are force into liking our kind of games, which is very SELFISH.

Last point is that during PS2, dev cost are not as high as HD gaming. If the game did not sell well, the profit margin is still stable or proftiable enough. Again, you have NO RIGHT to blame casuals for not buying your kinds of games and console.

HD and Nintendo. Meaning everyone.

Nintendo - invites gimmicky gaming.

HD - too costly to develop for, leading a lack of risk taking - the same risk that gave birth ot some of the games we're having installments of today.

HD and Nintendo. Meaning everyone.

Nintendo - invites gimmicky gaming.

HD - too costly to develop for, leading a lack of risk taking - the same risk that gave birth ot some of the games we're having installments of today.

i blame on the casual gamers.

developers nowaday dumb down their games and add bunch of randomness to their games so the bad players can have a chance againts better players. See Halo 2-3, Super Smash Bro Brawl.

i blame on the casual gamers.

developers nowaday dumb down their games and add bunch of randomness to their games so the bad players can have a chance againts better players. See Halo 2-3, Super Smash Bro Brawl.

[QUOTE="z4twenny"]don't blame nintendo. blame dev's, they keep wanting to make games that will become massively mainstream so they can sell alot of copies and make their money back. its a catch 22 because its not cheap to make a game nowadays so you have to appeal to as wide an audience as possible and you tend to overlook the small percentage of really hardcore gamers that consistently want more. i can safely say that had games continued in the direction they were capable of games would be a lot more indepth and a bit more "hardcore" FirstDiscovery

Funny, I felt the same way after reading this post. BTW, "hardcore console" is an oxymoron.

[QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"][QUOTE="z4twenny"]don't blame nintendo. blame dev's, they keep wanting to make games that will become massively mainstream so they can sell alot of copies and make their money back. its a catch 22 because its not cheap to make a game nowadays so you have to appeal to as wide an audience as possible and you tend to overlook the small percentage of really hardcore gamers that consistently want more. i can safely say that had games continued in the direction they were capable of games would be a lot more indepth and a bit more "hardcore" svetzenlether

Funny, I felt the same way after reading this post. BTW, "hardcore console" is an oxymoron.

gaming is getting more casual on consoles. but there will always be that hardcore niche on pc.paullywog

[QUOTE="svetzenlether"]

[QUOTE="FirstDiscovery"]Yeah and who was it that bought in the console that took people away from hardcore consoles? Who was it that brought in the console where you can make a game with two brain cells and get it to sell? Like Apple products, Nintendo is an insult to humanity's intelligenceZaistev_basic

Funny, I felt the same way after reading this post. BTW, "hardcore console" is an oxymoron.

Actually, I wasn't referring to Nintendo...

Gamers of course, for wanting shooter after shooter followed by the annual Madden game.Aljosa23

If Nintendo is to blame, where's the other four fingers pointing to? HD gaming gave the hardcore the graphics that they demanded, however, until now, no one really knew the price that they have to pay for it. Nintendo knew that, and that's why when they are asked why aren't they making the jump to HD, Nintendo pointed out that not everybody have HDTVs in their house. It's a good explanation, but that explanation is only scratching the surface. The Gamecube and the N64 both emphasized graphics, and they both are disappointing. Nintendo is backed to a wall here, do they keep going the graphics route and compete with Sony and Microsoft? For the average hardcore gamer, looking at it now, that's a no brainer. Now picture all three consoles with HD graphics. Now what? All three are expensive to develop, and the only way you're going to be able to cover those expenses are to sell your company to big name publishers like Activision-Blizzard, EA, or Ubisoft. Two of them only see the green and treat the red as the root of all evil. The only games that can sell are established licenses (Madden, GTA, and Call of Duty), FPS or RPGs, and we all know that games with new concepts like Prince of Persia and Mirror's Edge have flopped commerically, and yet games like Call of Duty: WaW and Need for Speed: Undercover are both selling well. What kind of message is that sending to the publishers? This is a beginning of a very slippery slope, and sooner or later, the popular genres are going to be oversaturated, and because it's too risky to innovate, creativity have died and commercialization took its place. They are signs that have brought the downfall of the Hip-Hop and Rock industries, and the ones that brought Hollywood to its knees. Why do companies like Pixar do so well even though they have only released one sequel in their timeline so far? Andrew Stanton once said that he never looks at what the market wants, he decides that he wants to make and if they don't like it, leave it. A lot of people were skeptical of Wall-E, and yet it was adored by both critics and audience. Super Mario Galaxy is so far arguably the best game of this generation, and it was a work of art. Yet this game is also innovative, and above all else, it is a fun game to play for everyone without feeling shallow. This industry is no longer progressed by how many polygons are in a model, but on experiencing gaming in a new and fun way.hiphops_savior

Wow, I have not much to say but you said it better man! Quote of the day!!!!

[QUOTE="Zaistev_basic"][QUOTE="svetzenlether"] "

Funny, I felt the same way after reading this post. BTW, "hardcore console" is an oxymoron.

svetzenlether

Actually, I wasn't referring to Nintendo...

I apologized!

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

HD and Nintendo. Meaning everyone.

Nintendo - invites gimmicky gaming.

HD - too costly to develop for, leading a lack of risk taking - the same risk that gave birth ot some of the games we're having installments of today.

Zaistev_basic

maby im wrong here, but havent the last...what? 30 years? been flooded with quality games that are not HD?

how is ninty proving that exactly?

or do you think that gaming started with HD and nobody understands games from non-hd era exist??

HD and Nintendo. Meaning everyone.

Nintendo - invites gimmicky gaming.

HD - too costly to develop for, leading a lack of risk taking - the same risk that gave birth ot some of the games we're having installments of today.

maby im wrong here, but havent the last...what? 30 years? been flooded with quality games that are not HD?

how is ninty proving that exactly?

or do you think that gaming started with HD and nobody understands games from non-hd era exist??

get a wii and save the industry :Dhabkeinbock

[QUOTE="habkeinbock"]get a wii and save the industry :DZaistev_basic

[QUOTE="Zaistev_basic"][QUOTE="habkeinbock"]get a wii and save the industry :Dshadow_hosi

Its everyones fault. Publishers force for easier less deep experiences for money, devs make those games because they want money, hardcore gamers eat up any hyped game, casuals don't know any better in terms of what to buy. All our faults, deal with it.ActicEdge

That.

[QUOTE="shadow_hosi"][QUOTE="Zaistev_basic"] Even if everyone buys a Wii, if the Devs keep creating crap HD-games (which is also a large sum of them), and stubbornly continue to create quality only for HD, then buying all the Wii's won't save it either. Oligopolies like EA, Activision, etc... are to be blame for their greed. Zaistev_basic