Graphics are stagnating.

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="Eggimannd"]

So it has been nearly four years since Crysis came out and it is still the graphics king. Vanilla Crysis by itself looks better than 99% of games out there and then modded just takes it to a whole other level. So much so that I feel that even next gen graphics won't really be much better.

Filthybastrd

I disagree. Everything in crysis looks "good", however there are games that narrow their focus and look "great".

The same goes for mods. Taken to an extreme, half-life2 modded up can have requirements as steep as 4+ gigs of memory.

Who would guess that was a going on 7 year old game?

Modded HL2 looks great but the old engine is quite apparent when you actually play it.

I don't really see your point about Crysis. I thought Metro 2033 looked better fpr a while but then I got my Crysis modding together. (finding the PoM/Af mod, removing duplicate files from HD foliage/Rygels HD textures so the crappy Rygel foliage would'nt be used) and I can't really think of any games that does anything in particular better than Crysis does.

Sry bout the weird angles, head bopping.

I think the modded character models in hl2 look better than the ones in crysis. Crysis runs much smoother than metro2033 and has more polish, but metro definitely is the better looking game. If a modding community ever springs up around it, it could probably look and run even better.

Just look at any recent CG movie....even Crysis can't touch it.

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

I disagree. Everything in crysis looks "good", however there are games that narrow their focus and look "great".

The same goes for mods. Taken to an extreme, half-life2 modded up can have requirements as steep as 4+ gigs of memory.

Who would guess that was a going on 7 year old game?

topgunmv

Modded HL2 looks great but the old engine is quite apparent when you actually play it.

I don't really see your point about Crysis. I thought Metro 2033 looked better fpr a while but then I got my Crysis modding together. (finding the PoM/Af mod, removing duplicate files from HD foliage/Rygels HD textures so the crappy Rygel foliage would'nt be used) and I can't really think of any games that does anything in particular better than Crysis does.

Sry bout the weird angles, head bopping.

I think the modded character models in hl2 look better than the ones in crysis. Crysis runs much smoother than metro2033 and has more polish, but metro definitely is the better looking game. If a modding community ever springs up around it, it could probably look and run even better.

If I get time later, I'll do a proper maxed comparison since I have both games. My current opinion is that Crysis both runs and looks better. Metro might need some mods (and som physics would'nt hurt ;)

In the meantime, here's HL2 from a quicksave I had:

Edit: Seems my second GPU is asleep lol :D 9% load at 51 MHz :!:

i think people are forgetting about the difference that graphical fidelity isnt just about how the game looks, its also about physics operations, conducting every process in real-time, photorealistic animation quality (Which some games are reaching, more notoriously L.A. Noire, with its new motion capture technology that has seen the light of day in movies like Avatar, etc), having the game world essentially run in 4D (Which will be the biggest hurdle). Having a 4D game world is essentially having every single object/action interact with the environment and having a process of time elapsing within the game world which affects everything in it dynamically. These all mean that games still have a very, very long way to go

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

Modded HL2 looks great but the old engine is quite apparent when you actually play it.

I don't really see your point about Crysis. I thought Metro 2033 looked better fpr a while but then I got my Crysis modding together. (finding the PoM/Af mod, removing duplicate files from HD foliage/Rygels HD textures so the crappy Rygel foliage would'nt be used) and I can't really think of any games that does anything in particular better than Crysis does.

Sry bout the weird angles, head bopping.

Filthybastrd

I think the modded character models in hl2 look better than the ones in crysis. Crysis runs much smoother than metro2033 and has more polish, but metro definitely is the better looking game. If a modding community ever springs up around it, it could probably look and run even better.

If I get time later, I'll do a proper maxed comparison since I have both games. My current opinion is that Crysis both runs and looks better. Metro might need some mods (and som physics would'nt hurt ;)

In the meantime, here's HL2 from a quicksave I had:

Edit: Seems my second GPU is asleep lol :D 9% load at 51 MHz :!:

Crysis definitely has its moments, especially warhead

I just think metro looks more amazing, due in large part to the more focused nature.

These days for making games its much less about the poly count, much more about the textures applied. The poly count as gone down in fact over the last couple of years but detail seems to have stayed the same/increased because of how well textures and bump maps are applied to the low poly models. Quite often they are baked on from an original high poly model

consoles are maxed out and its just not worth it to make a super high end game for just pc anymore .

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"]There's still room for improvement. As it is, textures are still essentially paint on a canvas. Realistically, "textures" would be a part of the object in question, and change dynamically. We don't have anything remotely like that yet. That and everything is still made of hollow "meshes". Literally there is nothing on the inside of a video game character or object.Eggimannd

Of course there's still place for improvement. I just don't think we will ever see the kind of huge graphical leap from last gen to this current gen. Next gen games are just gonna slightly improve over time until the reach another peak.

when nintendo releases it's next console holiday 2011 you will see an enourmous difference in console games, and because of that large difference on par with the pc for like... 6 months, Then you'll see pc games go into ultra realism. ^^ It's all just speculation but I'm confident this'll be how it plays out.

These days for making games its much less about the poly count, much more about the textures applied. The poly count as gone down in fact over the last couple of years but detail seems to have stayed the same/increased because of how well textures and bump maps are applied to the low poly models. Quite often they are baked on from an original high poly model

_Matt_

[QUOTE="_Matt_"]

These days for making games its much less about the poly count, much more about the textures applied. The poly count as gone down in fact over the last couple of years but detail seems to have stayed the same/increased because of how well textures and bump maps are applied to the low poly models. Quite often they are baked on from an original high poly model

bobbetybob

I think that may actually take longer in a sense as you have to individually paint each face, whereas for low poly modelling you can unwrap the UVW pretty quickly and apply several unwraps from a single texture onto the model to get good results.

Not to mention that high poly modelling may look amazing, but it takes its toll on home consoles :P

So it has been nearly four years since Crysis came out and it is still the graphics king. Vanilla Crysis by itself looks better than 99% of games out there and then modded just takes it to a whole other level. So much so that I feel that even next gen graphics won't really be much better.

But, taking aside the fact that Crysis was a game light years ahead of its time, I am actually saying this because I feel that graphics are stagnating. Gaming started with graphics in Black and white and then moved up from 2D to 3D. It always had a lot of place to improve on as we've seen blurry 3D sprites evolve over the years into fully detailed characters that are getting closer and closer to real life graphics.

So as we are getting closer and closer to realistic graphics, what exactly are next gen graphics going to do to make graphics looks better than games such as Crysis fully modded? I doubt just pouring polygon over polygon at this point is going to make a difference. I also doubt textures and details are going to get much better.

So what is next really? 3D? That doesn't really add anything to the graphics per say. Virtual reality? I think we're still a bit far off from that.

Eggimannd

[QUOTE="Roushrsh"]You know what would be amazing? CGI like graphics for a game, seems rather impossible thoughSPBoss

CGI graphics are already happening, this video is two years old, THIS proves that consolization is affecting pc games.

The poly count as gone down in fact over the last couple of years

_Matt_

I think that may actually take longer in a sense as you have to individually paint each face, whereas for low poly modelling you can unwrap the UVW pretty quickly and apply several unwraps from a single texture onto the model to get good results.

Not to mention that high poly modelling may look amazing, but it takes its toll on home consoles :P

_Matt_

[QUOTE="_Matt_"]

The poly count as gone down in fact over the last couple of years

Teufelhuhn

according to Naughty dog, Drakes model in UC2 has 47,000 polygons, alot in the face for lip movement.

I personally think God of War 3 set the new standard as far as graphics and details go, more specifically with characters. But there's always room for improvement.TheMoreYouOwn

[QUOTE="_Matt_"]

The poly count as gone down in fact over the last couple of years

Teufelhuhn

Its what I have been taught in my uni. The graphics look better and better but the poly count for a lot of games isn't increasing. I mean Assassins creed 2, the models have a fairly low poly count, most of the detail is from very well baked on textures.

[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]I personally think God of War 3 set the new standard as far as graphics and details go, more specifically with characters. But there's always room for improvement.Advid-Gamer

If you stare at Kratos the whole time, then yes it set the standard. Best looking character I've seen on any platform.

Lol @ people referring games with low *** textures. Please.

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]I personally think God of War 3 set the new standard as far as graphics and details go, more specifically with characters. But there's always room for improvement.theuncharted34

If you stare at Kratos the whole time, then yes it set the standard. Best looking character I've seen on any platform.

And we can all blame it on MS not keeping to the 5 year console rule. Consoles hold back gaming these days. PC's used to be the one people made cutting edge games on. Now it's pretty much consoles only. Once maxed out like they are we start to see the same visuals in every game we play... Which means I feel less compelled to buy games.

Here's to another 5 years of stale old graphics.

The real issue isn't more powerful graphics, it's the time and recources it takes to make them . If the game fails, the developper goes broke . 100 man teams are normal today in big game studio's .

zekere

That's where there is a thing called leasing tech engines.

There is no excuse for not making top tier games these days for consoles that been out now for 4-5 years.

360 holding everything back pretty much

PS2 did the same last gen

360 holding everything back pretty much

PS2 did the same last gen

HaloinventedFPS

according to Naughty dog, Drakes model in UC2 has 47,000 polygons, alot in the face for lip movement.

theuncharted34

That is for cut scenes the normal poly count is lower while in game.

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]I personally think God of War 3 set the new standard as far as graphics and details go, more specifically with characters. But there's always room for improvement.theuncharted34

If you stare at Kratos the whole time, then yes it set the standard. Best looking character I've seen on any platform.

You serious...

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[QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

360 holding everything back pretty much

PS2 did the same last gen

abuabed

Lazy devs

[QUOTE="abuabed"][QUOTE="HaloinventedFPS"]

360 holding everything back pretty much

PS2 did the same last gen

HaloinventedFPS

Lazy devs

Graphics are stagnating because developers are focused on 5-year old hardware. PC exclusive developers tend not to have the funds to license or create a engine that's capable of graphics like the Cry Engine.

There are two reasons I can think of as to why graphics havn't had much of an improvement: Hardware and Consoles limit.

First off, I want to say that I find the whole "Consolized" arguement completely immature and stupid to say the least, but even I can't deny the fact that console gaming has a huge impact on how far developers will push the hardware of gaming machines. Since most games these days are either on consoles, or have a console port, developers need to be able to run the game on older hardware. Consoles are using hardware from 5+ years ago, and this holds back the PC version (as far as visuals are concerned) by a good margin. Yes, PC versions will almost ALWAYS look better, but they could have looked MUCH better if the game was dedicated to being 100% a PC game.

However, it's completely unfair to say consoles are the only reason for the "stall" in the graphic push. Hardware itself is a huge issue, since a gaming rig to even MAX Crysis probably cost roughly $1,500-ish (complete guess on my part). That's a huge investment, and I have doubts even half of the PC ppulation has a rig capable to pulling it off. This creates a problem for devs, because now they need to make games that the majority of PC gamers will be able to actually play. Crysis is a rare breed, trying to push hardware to it's limit, however it is not good on a buisiness standpoint, because not everyone is going to be able to play the game on the max settings. There is a reason Blizzard is able to sell billions of copies for each game they made, and that's because they take older hardware into consideration when they create their games (isn't ONLY because they make good games).

Granted, this could all be completely incorrect, and I expect a Hermit to come out and tell me, "No, consoles ruined everything", but this is simply my perspective on why graphics havn't improved much since 2007 (I believe that's when Crysis was released). Honestly, once we get next gen consoles, PC games will push the hardware harder, and the cycle will more then likely continue.

Graphics are stagnating because developers are focused on 5-year old hardware. PC exclusive developers tend not to have the funds to license or create a engine that's capable of graphics like the Cry Engine.

Mystic-G

ProjecktCD does and they made their own game engine plus developed The Witcher 2 with only a budget of 8 million.

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[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

Graphics are stagnating because developers are focused on 5-year old hardware. PC exclusive developers tend not to have the funds to license or create a engine that's capable of graphics like the Cry Engine.

Hakkai007

ProjecktCD does and they made their own game engine plus developed The Witcher 2 with only a budget of 8 million.

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I'm well aware of this... how they managed to build and develop a game of such quality from scratch with such a low budget is beyond me. They clearly are able to do something not every developer does so let's not pretend other devs can do it too.

And I will throw in some more to prove a point.

I can't wait until it comes out. Then people will post The Witcher 2 screenshots instead of Crysis in graphics whore threads.

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I'm well aware of this... how they managed to build and develop a game of such quality from scratch with such a low budget is beyond me. They clearly are able to do something not every developer does so let's not pretend other devs can do it too.

Mystic-G

Well it's not like they have magical powers.

So other developers should be able to accomplish this.

How is this news to anyone?

[QUOTE="Advid-Gamer"][QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]I personally think God of War 3 set the new standard as far as graphics and details go, more specifically with characters. But there's always room for improvement.theuncharted34

If you stare at Kratos the whole time, then yes it set the standard. Best looking character I've seen on any platform.

And I will throw in some more to prove a point.

I can't wait until it comes out. Then people will post The Witcher 2 screenshots instead of Crysis in graphics whore threads.

Hakkai007

As aesthetically pleasing as that is, it is nowhere near as technically advanced as Crysis.

I don't think anything will be for the remainder of this gen.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

I'm well aware of this... how they managed to build and develop a game of such quality from scratch with such a low budget is beyond me. They clearly are able to do something not every developer does so let's not pretend other devs can do it too.

Hakkai007

Well it's not like they have magical powers.

So other developers should be able to accomplish this.

[QUOTE="Hakkai007"]

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

Graphics are stagnating because developers are focused on 5-year old hardware. PC exclusive developers tend not to have the funds to license or create a engine that's capable of graphics like the Cry Engine.

Mystic-G

ProjecktCD does and they made their own game engine plus developed The Witcher 2 with only a budget of 8 million.

.

.

.

I'm well aware of this... how they managed to build and develop a game of such quality from scratch with such a low budget is beyond me. They clearly are able to do something not every developer does so let's not pretend other devs can do it too.

How Activision managed to spend 50 million developing a Call of Duty game which still runs on an Idtech 3 engine is also beyond me.

Bohemia with Arma is also a good example of small developer with a relatively small budget building on pretty amazing technology.

Eventually, graphics will reach a point where the only thing in which will improve will be scale.Stevo_the_gamer

graphics are stagnating? good. it's enviorment size that should be growing. interactrion with those enviorments should become deeper, and breadth and depth of content should expand.

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"]There's still room for improvement. As it is, textures are still essentially paint on a canvas. Realistically, "textures" would be a part of the object in question, and change dynamically. We don't have anything remotely like that yet. That and everything is still made of hollow "meshes". Literally there is nothing on the inside of a video game character or object.Eggimannd

Of course there's still place for improvement. I just don't think we will ever see the kind of huge graphical leap from last gen to this current gen. Next gen games are just gonna slightly improve over time until the reach another peak.

My personal thought on this subject is that most developers aren't willing to make PC-centric games due to the heavy risk of piracy, along with the common perception that consoles are dominant.

At this point, I highly doubt we'll get a PC-exclusive that would have a similar impact made by HL2's initial release. I can only hope that more people would agree with me that Valve should bribe the crap out of console-centric companies such as Square, Rockstar, and Platinum Games.

You people say this every generation and every generation you are wrong.Birdy09

A ongoing theme this gen is software has stopped advancing at its usual rate, despite hardware continuing to march forward. We most likely could see a significant leap in graphics right now, the hardware is there, but someone has to actually make the games to utilize it.

My personal thought on this subject is that most developers aren't willing to make PC-centric games due to the heavy risk of piracy

flashn00b

People keep saying this, and I have to keep reminding them that consoles are more cross platform centric than PC, which isn't in line with the piracy theory.

... and they will continue to stagnate as long as devs focus on the 360 and the PS3. Not that that is a bad thing, necessarily, as gameplay could use some focus too.