Graphics are the Ultimate Gimmick

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I agree, look at these examples, the grafical gimmicks bring nothing.

 

As can be clearly seen, the graphics bring nothing new.

menes777

Obvious bullshot, you know graphics aren't that good.  :P

Yeah. The resolution is too high. :lol: SVGA wasn't around yet when that game released.

[QUOTE="LastRambo341"]Yeh, I think people call motion controls "a gimmick" but they do not know what it actually means. They actually think that "gimmicks" mean something that is useless or something that does not improve.Cranler

Wii was a weak console that had no way of competing against the big boys so they tried to take the attention away from the console and hype up with the motion controls which turn out to be inferior to existing control devices. Sounds like a gimmick to me. Now the wiiu doesnt even come with motion control.

Lots of people think of motion conmtrol as a gimmick including Randy Pitchford.

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/174504/Randy_Pitchford_has_no_interest_in_nextgen_motion_control_gimmicks.php

I agree, look at these examples, the grafical gimmicks bring nothing.

 

As can be clearly seen, the graphics bring nothing new.

tenaka2

[QUOTE="Link3301"]

[QUOTE="Bruin1986"] Your statement/opinion is objectively incorrect. More powerful hardware does not simply allow for better graphics. It has direct impact on gameplay options for developers. Larger environments with more complicated layouts as more AI controlled bots. Mass AI can be individualized so that single characters in large masses of characters can have individual, separate AI. More complicated physics simulations allow for more options. Look at Knack...it looks like physics will be a huge part of the game. I could go on and on about how more powerful hardware increases gameplay possibilities beyond simply graphics...Cranler

Yes but developers have not come anywhere near harnessing the power of current hardware and past hardware. Thus, new hardware is a useless "innovation" as things are right now. Half-Life, a game from 1998, has enemy AI that bests games today. Its AI is even better than the AI in Half-Life 2

You're not getting the point, and you should look at the definition of gimmick.

Graphics is important because it drives immersion, innovation and gives the ability to construct decent storylines. I do disagree with Crytek about 60% of the game being graphics because there's much more to the game, such as gameplay and sound. I just think 60% is too much, but it's Crytek post-consolisation so it's not surprising.

The importance of graphics is dependant on the game. For example, Hotline Miami is still a great game without graphics in mind because it is obviously focused on gameplay, it's what makes the game awesome. On the other hand, Heavy Rain wouldn't be good if the graphics are poor - if you're playing it for the story, it's important for the game to look good.

Cyberdot

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I agree, look at these examples, the grafical gimmicks bring nothing.

 

As can be clearly seen, the graphics bring nothing new.

burgeg

Seriously what useful innovation is graphics even getting us right now. Everything gameplay wise that can be done on 8th gen consoles can be done on 7th gen consoles and current PCs. the new tech powering new consoles and current and upcoming PCs does not improve developers abilities to design great games and innovate. Graphics are an even bigger gimmick right now than the Wii U gamepad, Wiimotes, Kinect, and every other motion controller. At least motion controllers open up new gameplay and design options. Same could be said for touch controls, they actual open up new opportunities for designers. Graphics aren't doing anything right now. We don't need new tech just to get developers to do something besides generic bro shooter bro warfare 37. Just look at the Indie market. Most of those games don't even use current console and PC tech to its fullest and are way more innovative than most AAA titles.

Link3301

When games like GTA have full destructible environments and we can go inside every building available then I'll say "graphics" as you would call it don't matter anymore.

When technology hits that stage I'll be satisfied.

EDIT : so no, graphics are not a gimmick.

Yeh, I think people call motion controls "a gimmick" but they do not know what it actually means. They actually think that "gimmicks" mean something that is useless or something that does not improve.LastRambo341

Wii was a weak console that had no way of competing against the big boys so they tried to take the attention away from the console and hype up with the motion controls which turn out to be inferior to existing control devices. Sounds like a gimmick to me. Now the wiiu doesnt even come with motion control.

Lots of people think of motion conmtrol as a gimmick including Randy Pitchford.

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/174504/Randy_Pitchford_has_no_interest_in_nextgen_motion_control_gimmicks.php

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="Link3301"]

Yes but developers have not come anywhere near harnessing the power of current hardware and past hardware. Thus, new hardware is a useless "innovation" as things are right now. Half-Life, a game from 1998, has enemy AI that bests games today. Its AI is even better than the AI in Half-Life 2

Jag85

[QUOTE="tenaka2"]

I agree, look at these examples, the grafical gimmicks bring nothing.

As can be clearly seen, the graphics bring nothing new.

I used to be a Dual Analogs FPS player back with PS2/Xbox/Gamecube as well as I still am a M/KB FPS player but I've adapted and started Using WiiMote for FPS and can say that they do actually beat out the precision of even Mouse and Keyboard.  Mouse and Keyboard controls are great for FPS dont get me wrong, I love Mouse and Keyboard but WiiMote Pointer controls are superior to them.

Until the Mouse and Keyboard can prove accuracy as shown in this video, the WiiMote will remain the best method for FPS.  Dual Analogs could never do what's in that video so they are out of the running.

nini200

I've seen videos and articles that tip it in favor of m/k and dual analog as well, though not many because those users really don't have anything to prove/defend. The reason for that is because they are enjoying the genre to a muuuuch greater extent then gamers only playing on nintendo platforms. 

I remember when RE4 on Wii showed off the potential for the pointer controls and everyone became extremely excited for the possibilities (as people did for many of the theorized advancements motion controls would bring but never did), however, after than game there wasn't a whole lot of quality 3rd and 1st person shooters on the system, nowhere near what the m/k and dual analog platforms were getting. Not getting RE5 certainly didn't help. 

My point is there is really no point in contesting its alleged superiority when it's not even coming close breaking even with the amount of quality 1/3rd person shooter titles other platforms are receiving. That alone makes it a complete non threat to the m/k and dual analog control schemes. 

[QUOTE="Jag85"][QUOTE="Cranler"]

 

Wii was a weak console that had no way of competing against the big boys so they tried to take the attention away from the console and hype up with the motion controls which turn out to be inferior to existing control devices. Sounds like a gimmick to me. Now the wiiu doesnt even come with motion control.

 

Lots of people think of motion conmtrol as a gimmick including Randy Pitchford.

 

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/174504/Randy_Pitchford_has_no_interest_in_nextgen_motion_control_gimmicks.php

Cranler

Not really. While the the 360 and especially PS3 were making losses on each console sold, the Wii was making a profit on every console sold. This fact automatically negates whatever profits DLC and Live Gold were making for Microsoft. And in addition to hardware profits, the Wii also sold a lot more software units than the 360 and PS3. Furthermore, a lot of those software sales came from low-budget first-party titles that made way more profit for Nintendo. And while the Wii's sales have slowed down significantly towards the end of the generation, that won't be enough to close the 25 million console sales gap between the Wii and 360. All the facts point to the Wii clearly winning last generation, financially speaking.

As for the Wii U Gamepad, it supports motion sensors and accelerators like the WiiMote, in addition to a gyroscope sensor like the 3DS (which is useful for FPS aiming). I haven't played Zombi U, so I have no idea whether it makes use of motion sensors or not.

[QUOTE="Jag85"][QUOTE="Cranler"] Until recently most shooters had enemies that stood still in the open or just charged the player. Today most shooters have enemies taking cover, grenade flushing and flanking. Cranler

[QUOTE="Link3301"]

Seriously what useful innovation is graphics even getting us right now. Everything gameplay wise that can be done on 8th gen consoles can be done on 7th gen consoles and current PCs. the new tech powering new consoles and current and upcoming PCs does not improve developers abilities to design great games and innovate. Graphics are an even bigger gimmick right now than the Wii U gamepad, Wiimotes, Kinect, and every other motion controller. At least motion controllers open up new gameplay and design options. Same could be said for touch controls, they actual open up new opportunities for designers. Graphics aren't doing anything right now. We don't need new tech just to get developers to do something besides generic bro shooter bro warfare 37. Just look at the Indie market. Most of those games don't even use current console and PC tech to its fullest and are way more innovative than most AAA titles.

HAZE-Unit

When games like GTA have full destructible environments and we can go inside every building available then I'll say "graphics" as you would call it don't matter anymore.

When technology hits that stage I'll be satisfied.

EDIT : so no, graphics are not a gimmick.

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="Jag85"] Firstly, the Wii won the last gen. Secondly, the Wii initially wasn't even marketed as a direct competitor to the PS360. And finally, the Wii U Gamepad features motion control.Jag85

Not really. While the the 360 and especially PS3 were making losses on each console sold, the Wii was making a profit on every console sold. This fact automatically negates whatever profits DLC and Live Gold were making for Microsoft. And in addition to hardware profits, the Wii also sold a lot more software units than the 360 and PS3. Furthermore, a lot of those software sales came from low-budget first-party titles that made way more profit for Nintendo. And while the Wii's sales have slowed down significantly towards the end of the generation, that won't be enough to close the 25 million console sales gap between the Wii and 360. All the facts point to the Wii clearly winning last generation, financially speaking.

As for the Wii U Gamepad, it supports motion sensors and accelerators like the WiiMote, in addition to a gyroscope sensor like the 3DS (which is useful for FPS aiming). I haven't played Zombi U, so I have no idea whether it makes use of motion sensors or not.

Back in 2001, Metal Gear Solid 2 already had enemies taking cover, grenade flushing, and flanking.Jag85

Graphics are the farthest thing from as gimmick, they are the building block of all games. I am working on a open world game with CE3. I have ran the game on a pc with similar hardware to current consoles, and it was extremely limiting to say the least, for starters I could only run the game on the lowest settings, and it still was under 10 fps the whole time. I have a pc running it with a GTX 570, and the benefits of the better hardware are huge. I am creating battles in the streets of Chicago with hundreds of men. This amount of AI is simply not possible on consoles. Ther is a significant jump on everything each gen. Do you think MAG would have run on PS2 ? Do you think ARMA 3(270km map), or Planetside 2(thousands of players at once) would run on PS3 ? BF3 on pc is 64 players, on consoles it's 24, clearly, better hardware, and better graphics are very important.

SentientMind

[QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Cranler"]
Console sales arent everything, factor in all the dlc and Live Gold subs and MS most likely won the gen. Plus the ps360 are still selling strong while wii is dead in the water. 360 is currently outselling wii and wiiu combined on a month to month basis. Feb 2103 the 360 sold 300k while the wiiu sold a mere 65k. Lets not forget that the wii was a fad fluke that will never happen again. Wiiu gamepad features motion control you say? Is motion control used for aiming in Zombie u with the wiiu gamepad?Cranler

Not really. While the the 360 and especially PS3 were making losses on each console sold, the Wii was making a profit on every console sold. This fact automatically negates whatever profits DLC and Live Gold were making for Microsoft. And in addition to hardware profits, the Wii also sold a lot more software units than the 360 and PS3. Furthermore, a lot of those software sales came from low-budget first-party titles that made way more profit for Nintendo. And while the Wii's sales have slowed down significantly towards the end of the generation, that won't be enough to close the 25 million console sales gap between the Wii and 360. All the facts point to the Wii clearly winning last generation, financially speaking.

As for the Wii U Gamepad, it supports motion sensors and accelerators like the WiiMote, in addition to a gyroscope sensor like the 3DS (which is useful for FPS aiming). I haven't played Zombi U, so I have no idea whether it makes use of motion sensors or not.

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Cranler"]
Console sales arent everything, factor in all the dlc and Live Gold subs and MS most likely won the gen. Plus the ps360 are still selling strong while wii is dead in the water. 360 is currently outselling wii and wiiu combined on a month to month basis. Feb 2103 the 360 sold 300k while the wiiu sold a mere 65k. Lets not forget that the wii was a fad fluke that will never happen again. Wiiu gamepad features motion control you say? Is motion control used for 360 and PS3 combined. In addition, the Wii's top sellers shifted a lot more units than the PS360's top sellers did. It's clear the Wii won last gen by a considerable margin, in terms of both hardware and software sales.Jag85

You can praise the Wii as much as you want but can you play Killzone or Uncharted? Exactly, so you lose.SchnabbleTab

Not really. While the the 360 and especially PS3 were making losses on each console sold, the Wii was making a profit on every console sold. This fact automatically negates whatever profits DLC and Live Gold were making for Microsoft. And in addition to hardware profits, the Wii also sold a lot more software units than the 360 and PS3. Furthermore, a lot of those software sales came from low-budget first-party titles that made way more profit for Nintendo. And while the Wii's sales have slowed down significantly towards the end of the generation, that won't be enough to close the 25 million console sales gap between the Wii and 360. All the facts point to the Wii clearly winning last generation, financially speaking.

As for the Wii U Gamepad, it supports motion sensors and accelerators like the WiiMote, in addition to a gyroscope sensor like the 3DS (which is useful for FPS aiming). I haven't played Zombi U, so I have no idea whether it makes use of motion sensors or not.

Been gaming over 30 years now and I'll be lying my ass off if I said I don't like great graphics. I disagree with you TC.

Graphics are the farthest thing from as gimmick, they are the building block of all games. I am working on a open world game with CE3. I have ran the game on a pc with similar hardware to current consoles, and it was extremely limiting to say the least, for starters I could only run the game on the lowest settings, and it still was under 10 fps the whole time. I have a pc running it with a GTX 570, and the benefits of the better hardware are huge. I am creating battles in the streets of Chicago with hundreds of men. This amount of AI is simply not possible on consoles. Ther is a significant jump on everything each gen. Do you think MAG would have run on PS2 ? Do you think ARMA 3(270km map), or Planetside 2(thousands of players at once) would run on PS3 ? BF3 on pc is 64 players, on consoles it's 24, clearly, better hardware, and better graphics are very important.

[QUOTE="Jag85"][QUOTE="Cranler"] We dont have the numbers for how much MS makes from dlc or from other online services. MS does have at least 15 million Live Gold subs. Also remember that while the wiiu has the highest selling games they didnt have that many popular games. Add up all the COD's, Halos, GTA, RDR, Bioshock and all the other million plus selling games and its not far off.Cranler

[QUOTE="Jag85"][QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="Jag85"]

[QUOTE="Cranler"]
Console sales arent everything, factor in all the dlc and Live Gold subs and MS most likely won the gen. Plus the ps360 are still selling strong while wii is dead in the water. 360 is currently outselling wii and wiiu combined on a month to month basis. Feb 2103 the 360 sold 300k while the wiiu sold a mere 65k. Lets not forget that the wii was a fad fluke that will never happen again. Wiiu gamepad features motion control you say? Is motion control used for 360 and PS3 combined. In addition, the Wii's top sellers shifted a lot more units than the PS360's top sellers did. It's clear the Wii won last gen by a considerable margin, in terms of both hardware and software sales.SchnabbleTab

I do;t care about killzone and most modern shooters. I don't know why the cows try to use it as ownage.

[QUOTE="Cranler"][QUOTE="Jag85"] Not sure what you mean by that second paragraph. The Wii had more million sellers than both the 360 and PS3 combined. In addition, the Wii's top sellers shifted a lot more units than the PS360's top sellers did. It's clear the Wii won last gen by a considerable margin, in terms of both hardware and software sales.Jag85

Seriously what useful innovation is graphics even getting us right now. Everything gameplay wise that can be done on 8th gen consoles can be done on 7th gen consoles and current PCs. the new tech powering new consoles and current and upcoming PCs does not improve developers abilities to design great games and innovate. Graphics are an even bigger gimmick right now than the Wii U gamepad, Wiimotes, Kinect, and every other motion controller. At least motion controllers open up new gameplay and design options. Same could be said for touch controls, they actual open up new opportunities for designers. Graphics aren't doing anything right now. We don't need new tech just to get developers to do something besides generic bro shooter bro warfare 37. Just look at the Indie market. Most of those games don't even use current console and PC tech to its fullest and are way more innovative than most AAA titles.

Link3301

as far as the indie scene goes, thats a crock of sh*t. they rehash 2d platformers with some kind of later gen mechanic and call it innovative. example was braid...i'm sorry but even the developer was inspired by pop sands of time. everything is hybrid....don't let the name indie fool you....nothing is new under the sun. its just a matter of combining mechanics from different genres now

[QUOTE="SentientMind"]

Graphics are the farthest thing from as gimmick, they are the building block of all games. I am working on a open world game with CE3. I have ran the game on a pc with similar hardware to current consoles, and it was extremely limiting to say the least, for starters I could only run the game on the lowest settings, and it still was under 10 fps the whole time. I have a pc running it with a GTX 570, and the benefits of the better hardware are huge. I am creating battles in the streets of Chicago with hundreds of men. This amount of AI is simply not possible on consoles. Ther is a significant jump on everything each gen. Do you think MAG would have run on PS2 ? Do you think ARMA 3(270km map), or Planetside 2(thousands of players at once) would run on PS3 ? BF3 on pc is 64 players, on consoles it's 24, clearly, better hardware, and better graphics are very important.

Jag85

WoW supports thousands of players because of the server farms that actually run the game.  Not because the client has primitive graphics.  The game itself could have Crysis 3 like graphics and still support thousands of players.  But that won't happen because 1) it's not the theme of WoW, 2) Blizzard doesn't need that level of graphics to keep players interested and 3) it would alienate the fan base that has relied on not needing a powerful machine to run the game. 

[QUOTE="LastRambo341"]Yeh, I think people call motion controls "a gimmick" but they do not know what it actually means. They actually think that "gimmicks" mean something that is useless or something that does not improve.Cranler

Wii was a weak console that had no way of competing against the big boys so they tried to take the attention away from the console and hype up with the motion controls which turn out to be inferior to existing control devices. Sounds like a gimmick to me. Now the wiiu doesnt even come with motion control.

Lots of people think of motion conmtrol as a gimmick including Randy Pitchford.

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/174504/Randy_Pitchford_has_no_interest_in_nextgen_motion_control_gimmicks.php

[QUOTE="bobbetybob"]I don't think you know what the word gimmick means.Link3301

gim·mick

noun

1.

an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, especially one designed to attract attention orincrease appeal.

[QUOTE="Link3301"]

Seriously what useful innovation is graphics even getting us right now. Everything gameplay wise that can be done on 8th gen consoles can be done on 7th gen consoles and current PCs. the new tech powering new consoles and current and upcoming PCs does not improve developers abilities to design great games and innovate. Graphics are an even bigger gimmick right now than the Wii U gamepad, Wiimotes, Kinect, and every other motion controller. At least motion controllers open up new gameplay and design options. Same could be said for touch controls, they actual open up new opportunities for designers. Graphics aren't doing anything right now. We don't need new tech just to get developers to do something besides generic bro shooter bro warfare 37. Just look at the Indie market. Most of those games don't even use current console and PC tech to its fullest and are way more innovative than most AAA titles.

jsmoke03

as far as the indie scene goes, thats a crock of sh*t. they rehash 2d platformers with some kind of later gen mechanic and call it innovative. example was braid...i'm sorry but even the developer was inspired by pop sands of time. everything is hybrid....don't let the name indie fool you....nothing is new under the sun. its just a matter of combining mechanics from different genres now

[QUOTE="Jag85"][QUOTE="Cranler"] I highly doubt the wii had more million+ selling games than 360. Wii fit or whichever one came with wiiu doesnt count btw. Cranler

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2011/110425e.pdf (page 3)

As of March 2011, at least 103 different Wii games had sold over a million units each.

Wikipedia's list of best-selling Xbox 360 games to date barely has even half as many million sellers. Even if we consider that it's missing some games, it still won't come anywhere close.