Guess what, consolites, 90% of US DS Gamers Pirate their games...

OH NO

Piracy sinking PC games industry

And don't try to bring up sales thank you.

[QUOTE="BreakingPoint8"]So that's like 18 million DS owners who supposedly pirate games? Sounds like BS to me.Grodus5

and I bet many pc gamers don't have a clue how to pirate games.

OH NO

Piracy sinking PC games industry

And don't try to bring up sales thank you.

JLF1

That's already been debunked.

"After listening to the Q3 2008 Electronic Arts Earnings Conference Call we have learned that Crysis has been a strong performer with sales having exceeded expectations. EA also reported Crysis reaching the platinum mark meaning over 1 million copies of the game have been sold worldwide."

Link

Does this mean the 2 million DS owners that buy games have a 50 games attach rate :lol:

Piracy statements always blown out of proportion.

[QUOTE="the_h_bomb"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] But they seem to support his claims that the R4 chip is a big problem. So unless you have some kind of evidence to the contrary, then I suggest you quit now.Vandalvideo

So now you're saying that we shouldn't take his statements at face value and we should just accept that the "R4 chip is a big problem" . I suppose that's some progress

Where's ELSPAs evidence? they don't even track American sales.

They're BSing.

[QUOTE="Grodus5"][QUOTE="BreakingPoint8"]So that's like 18 million DS owners who supposedly pirate games? Sounds like BS to me.imprezawrx500

and I bet many pc gamers don't have a clue how to pirate games.

Only if you count popcap gamers. PC gamers in general often have higher knowledge about computers than console gamers. Since they have to take a lot more in account when they want to play a game. And considering the DS has a very high casual appeal, the number of PC gamers that know how to pirate games is probably far higher than the number of DS gamers. Especially considering the fact that a PC can play pirated games "out of the box", whereas a DS needs a special piece of hardware.

Did a few hermits actually believe this? I thought you guys were smarter :?

Well, I know four people IRL who have a DS, including me. Two of them have an R4 card with pirate games. Just a bit of anecdotal evidence.

[QUOTE="JLF1"]

OH NO

Piracy sinking PC games industry

And don't try to bring up sales thank you.

DragonfireXZ95

That's already been debunked.

"After listening to the Q3 2008 Electronic Arts Earnings Conference Call we have learned that Crysis has been a strong performer with sales having exceeded expectations. EA also reported Crysis reaching the platinum mark meaning over 1 million copies of the game have been sold worldwide."

Link

MM?

sales are not proof enough to debunk the DS article so why should why bring up sales up to counter this one?

Until you find rocksolid proof that piracy don't sink pc gaming without mentioning sales then I will believe you.

And until you find proof you this article can be used as the truth.

Look, they don't have to prove their point. They are people with credibility who have made a claim. Does that mean what they say are 100% true? No, but you can't just use deductive reasoning and say Youre wrong. You're a layman. Bring evidence, or bring nothing. Its as simple as t that.Vandalvideo

Okay, using your own bull**** logic against you, you are basicially saying that, without proof, it would be perfectally acceptable for police officer to arrest person who knows nothing of the law, for, say, breathing the air?

90%= BS

how many lil kids do you think are pirating games?

seriously?

[QUOTE="the_h_bomb"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] You're misinterpreting the number. "90% of US DS gamers pirate their games" that does not equate to "90% of US DS games are pirated" It means that a large majority of DS gamers have pirated a game.Vandalvideo

So what are you saying, that Ds owners pirate 1 game and then buy the rest?

DS software sales are fantastic, there are numerous titles on the system that have PWNED everything on the "software monster" that is the 360, developer support is increasing on a daily basis

There's no possible way that statistic is even close to true. The DS is the most lucrative platform around

"it is thought that 90% pf gamers yadda yadda" != statistics, that equals some idiot trying to stir the pot and looking stupid in the process.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="JLF1"]

OH NO

Piracy sinking PC games industry

And don't try to bring up sales thank you.

JLF1

That's already been debunked.

"After listening to the Q3 2008 Electronic Arts Earnings Conference Call we have learned that Crysis has been a strong performer with sales having exceeded expectations. EA also reported Crysis reaching the platinum mark meaning over 1 million copies of the game have been sold worldwide."

Link

MM?

sales are not proof enough to debunk the DS article so why should why bring up sales up to counter this one?

Until you find rocksolid proof that piracy don't sink pc gaming without mentioning sales then I will believe you.

And until you find proof you this article can be used as the truth.

actually your article uses crysis sales and us reatail sales to proove their point.so the fact that crysis is selling 1 million immediately busts the article

So around 18 million DS gamers pirate their games? 90% sounds BS.

[QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="JLF1"]

OH NO

Piracy sinking PC games industry

And don't try to bring up sales thank you.

naval

That's already been debunked.

"After listening to the Q3 2008 Electronic Arts Earnings Conference Call we have learned that Crysis has been a strong performer with sales having exceeded expectations. EA also reported Crysis reaching the platinum mark meaning over 1 million copies of the game have been sold worldwide."

Link

MM?

sales are not proof enough to debunk the DS article so why should why bring up sales up to counter this one?

Until you find rocksolid proof that piracy don't sink pc gaming without mentioning sales then I will believe you.

And until you find proof you this article can be used as the truth.

actually your article uses crysis sales and us reatail sales to proove their point.so the fact that crysis is selling 1 million immediately busts the article

But the fact that New super mario bros, brainage, pokemon, has sold to more than 10% on all ds systems don't busts the ds article?

And maybe the article is about viruses or trojans that could attack your PC if you download illegal games that would kill all the PC hardware in a sec and kill PC gaming with it?

Face it hermits, if the DS has such a big problem with illegal downloads imagine what percentage the PC has. You can't win this battle, if you seriously believe that illegal download are hurting consoles and handhelds more than PC games then you have been brainwashed.

90%= BS

how many lil kids do you think are pirating games?

seriously?

CwlHeddwyn

I know about 20-25 people who have DS's. Out of all of them about 16 of them have R4's. They are alot more popular than you may think..........

90%= BS

how many lil kids do you think are pirating games?

seriously?

CwlHeddwyn

I know about 20-25 people who have DS's. Out of all of them about 16 of them have R4's. They are alot more popular than you may think..........

But the fact that New super mario bros, brainage, pokemon, has sold to more than 10% on all ds systems don't busts the ds article?

And maybe the article is about viruses or trojans that could attack your PC if you download illegal games that would kill all the PC hardware in a sec and kill PC gaming with it?

Face it hermits, if the DS has such a big problem with illegal downloads imagine what percentage the PC has. You can't win this battle, if you seriously believe that illegal download are hurting consoles and handhelds more than PC games then you have been brainwashed.

JLF1

unless the articles doesn't shows what reason it came up with the figures like the blog you mentioned did, you cannot bust it with sales. also pc gamers never said piracy doesn't happens on pc , but always said consoles also suffer from a large amount of piracy . while 90% may not be totally accurate, but number would definitley would be quite big

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"]

90%= BS

how many lil kids do you think are pirating games?

seriously?

AA7

I know about 20-25 people who have DS's. Out of all of them about 16 of them have R4's. They are alot more popular than you may think..........

16 of 20-25 people is not 90%

[QUOTE="JLF1"]

But the fact that New super mario bros, brainage, pokemon, has sold to more than 10% on all ds systems don't busts the ds article?

And maybe the article is about viruses or trojans that could attack your PC if you download illegal games that would kill all the PC hardware in a sec and kill PC gaming with it?

Face it hermits, if the DS has such a big problem with illegal downloads imagine what percentage the PC has. You can't win this battle, if you seriously believe that illegal download are hurting consoles and handhelds more than PC games then you have been brainwashed.

naval

unless the articles doesn't shows what reason it came up with the figures like the blog you mentioned did, you cannot bust it with sales. also pc gamers never said piracy doesn't happens on pc , but always said consoles also suffer from a large amount of piracy . while 90% may not be totally accurate, but number would definitley would be quite big

The same argument can be used against the "PC dying article". Even if Crysis has sold 1M does not debunk the article, until you can find proof that the illegal download percentage is lover than it was when the article was writhen you can't debunk it.

And why should we trust a article that don't put out proof how they got the numbers?

Are you seriously believing that all those soccer moms and 5 year olds that everyone claims own a DS own a R4?

The DS is a very big casual handheld. Are you saying that casuals know how to get games on the ds illegaly? And no I don't care if your sister or somebody else casual does it, 90% of all most know how to do it.

Yup, you read it right. Pirating, which is causing "the fall of PC gaming," is actually extremely rampant on other gaming platforms, specifically the DS...

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=181131

90% of gamers in the US are believed to pirate their games using the R4.

"Oh, noes. PC gaming is dying. Pirating only happens there...." :lol:

dgsag

Well...it's very easy to pirate games on the DS. Ridiculously easy, actually. It's about as protected as the Dreamcast.

That's all i have to say on this matter.

and yet DS software sales consistently do the best out of all the systems. BS i say :|samusarmada

As in, if they get 30% of the DS market to buy games, it'll be more than any nextGen console's total base.

[QUOTE="samusarmada"]and yet DS software sales consistently do the best out of all the systems. BS i say :|Dreams-Visions

As in, if they get 30% of the DS market to buy games, it'll be more than any nextGen console's total base.

good point.

90% still way too high though.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

[QUOTE="samusarmada"]and yet DS software sales consistently do the best out of all the systems. BS i say :|samusarmada

As in, if they get 30% of the DS market to buy games, it'll be more than any nextGen console's total base.

good point.

90% still way too high though.

I don't see any reason for the ELSPA to lie about it. What would they have to gain from such an indictment, were it untrue? And don't you think Nintendo would have come back strongly against such a claim if it were unfounded?

Again, this isn't some random analyst commenting. This is coming directly from the Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers Association

http://www.elspa.com/

All they do is fight piracy.

[QUOTE="samusarmada"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

[QUOTE="samusarmada"]and yet DS software sales consistently do the best out of all the systems. BS i say :|Dreams-Visions

As in, if they get 30% of the DS market to buy games, it'll be more than any nextGen console's total base.

good point.

90% still way too high though.

I don't see any reason for the ELSPA to lie about it. What would they have to gain from such an indictment, were it untrue? And don't you think Nintendo would have come back strongly against such a claim if it were unfounded?

Again, this isn't some random analyst commenting. This is coming directly from the Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers Association

http://www.elspa.com/

All they do is fight piracy.

"The implications are massive. In America it's thought 90 per cent of Nintendo DS users are playing pirated games because of R4s."

there doesnt seem to be much evidence, just assumptions. I would like to see how they came to this conclusion before I judge it any further.

The same argument can be used against the "PC dying article". Even if Crysis has sold 1M does not debunk the article, until you can find proof that the illegal download percentage is lover than it was when the article was writhen you can't debunk it.

And why should we trust a article that don't put out proof how they got the numbers?

Are you seriously believing that all those soccer moms and 5 year olds that everyone claims own a DS own a R4?

The DS is a very big casual handheld. Are you saying that casuals know how to get games on the ds illegaly? And no I don't care if your sister or somebody else casual does it, 90% of all most know how to do it.

JLF1

it does debunks the article since article uses low sales of crysis to prooves its point

i agree 90% seems too high but why should the person lie. he is some a responsible agency which fights piracy. mostly his methods must have some flaws but even then the number would most probably be quite high.

[QUOTE="samusarmada"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

[QUOTE="samusarmada"]and yet DS software sales consistently do the best out of all the systems. BS i say :|Dreams-Visions

As in, if they get 30% of the DS market to buy games, it'll be more than any nextGen console's total base.

good point.

90% still way too high though.

I don't see any reason for the ELSPA to lie about it. What would they have to gain from such an indictment, were it untrue? And don't you think Nintendo would have come back strongly against such a claim if it were unfounded?

Again, this isn't some random analyst commenting. This is coming directly from the Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers Association

http://www.elspa.com/

All they do is fight piracy.

Regardless 90% is way too high. BTW weren't so called credible people also saying college kids were pirating, like 45% or so bu that number turned out to be less than right.

We all know there is Piracy but if 90% of DS owners in the states meaning it probably would be atleast around half of the owners worldwide then if it's so bad in the USA... would be pirating.. if that's the case then Nintendo should be in crisis mode and doing whatever... Also I don't see why Nintendo would have to answer this. Sure it would stop the debate but them addressing it all leads room to more discussion and it becomes a more serious issue to some people. I don't think they believe their userbase is altered by these alegations. Ofcourse the DS is being pirated, but 90% in the states means they might as well just give the software away and mark the prices of the DS up a couple $100 then. lol :p

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="samusarmada"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

[QUOTE="samusarmada"]and yet DS software sales consistently do the best out of all the systems. BS i say :|kcpp2b

As in, if they get 30% of the DS market to buy games, it'll be more than any nextGen console's total base.

good point.

90% still way too high though.

I don't see any reason for the ELSPA to lie about it. What would they have to gain from such an indictment, were it untrue? And don't you think Nintendo would have come back strongly against such a claim if it were unfounded?

Again, this isn't some random analyst commenting. This is coming directly from the Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers Association

http://www.elspa.com/

All they do is fight piracy.

Regardless 90% is way too high. BTW weren't so called credible people also saying college kids were pirating, like 45% or so bu that number turned out to be less than right.

We all know there is Piracy but if 90% of DS owners in the states meaning it probably would be atleast around half of the owners worldwide then if it's so bad in the USA... would be pirating.. if that's the case then Nintendo should be in crisis mode and doing whatever... Also I don't see why Nintendo would have to answer this. Sure it would stop the debate but them addressing it all leads room to more discussion and it becomes a more serious issue to some people. I don't think they believe their userbase is altered by these alegations. Ofcourse the DS is being pirated, but 90% in the states means they might as well just give the software away and mark the prices of the DS up a couple $100 then. lol :p

Agreed. I guess the only real way to find out is to ask the creators of this R4 how their sales are going. They must have a massive operation, no?

[QUOTE="AA7"][QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"]

90%= BS

how many lil kids do you think are pirating games?

seriously?

JLF1

I know about 20-25 people who have DS's. Out of all of them about 16 of them have R4's. They are alot more popular than you may think..........

16 of 20-25 people is not 90%

No, but its much higher than most people would think. Pirating games is growing in popularit......free game or paid ones? Not much of a debate for most.

there doesnt seem to be much evidence, just assumptions. I would like to see how they came to this conclusion before I judge it any further.

samusarmada

Agreed.

i agree 90% seems too high but why should the person lie. naval

I'm sure they have no vested interest in that sort of thing.

[QUOTE="JLF1"][QUOTE="AA7"][QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"]

90%= BS

how many lil kids do you think are pirating games?

seriously?

AA7

I know about 20-25 people who have DS's. Out of all of them about 16 of them have R4's. They are alot more popular than you may think..........

16 of 20-25 people is not 90%

No, but its much higher than most people would think. Pirating games is growing in popularit......free game or paid ones? Not much of a debate for most.

must agree there. especially when there's no risk to the hardware involved.

[QUOTE="naval"]i agree 90% seems too high but why should the person lie. Jandurin

I'm sure they have no vested interest in that sort of thing.

But the ELPSA doesn't make money by website hits. They've been around almost 20 years. Reads like this won't cause their already sizable membership to grow, I don't think (60 member companies at present).

I don't see any reason for them to exaggerate. It may be an educated guess, but I bet it was made to bring attention to themselves.

It may be an educated guess, but I bet it was made to bring attention to themselves.Dreams-Visions

Money is not nearly as important as being recognized.

Unless you meant "wasn't" as opposed to "was".

Agreed. I guess the only real way to find out is to ask the creators of this R4 how their sales are going. They must have a massive operation, no?

Dreams-Visions

Yeah but then we have to argue over if sales means in the hands of pirates or just a number of items sold to street retailers LOL

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]It may be an educated guess, but I bet it was made to bring attention to themselves.Jandurin

Money is not nearly as important as being recognized.

Unless you meant "wasn't" as opposed to "was".

I meant wasn't :)

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Agreed. I guess the only real way to find out is to ask the creators of this R4 how their sales are going. They must have a massive operation, no?

kcpp2b

Yeah but then we have to argue over if sales means in the hands of pirates or just a number of items sold to street retailers LOL

lulz. shipped vs. sold! :D

No, if what I'm reading is correct, they can't make enough of these things. Every site I've stopped by (resellers) says "On Back Order" or "Pre-Order". So I don't think any of these are sitting on any shelves.

[QUOTE="kcpp2b"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Agreed. I guess the only real way to find out is to ask the creators of this R4 how their sales are going. They must have a massive operation, no?

Dreams-Visions

Yeah but then we have to argue over if sales means in the hands of pirates or just a number of items sold to street retailers LOL

lulz. shipped vs. sold! :D

No, if what I'm reading is correct, they can't make enough of these things. Every site I've stopped by (resellers) says "On Back Order" or "Pre-Order". So I don't think any of these are sitting on any shelves.

I'm sure it sells crazy but way is that number 90%. Like I was saying... Nintendo might as well just mod their new games somehow or give them away for free and sell the DS for $599.99.... but software sales worldwide aren't in favor of this 90% number at all. Cause worldwide the pirating would probably half the owner of the DS which is what now 25 Million? Or 30m Not sure.

Yeah I think it's mostly street vendors buying the chip things on wholesale and then trying to sell them off. So 90% number is shipped and sold to vendors not all sales lol haha