Hacking - The Legal Grounds.

With recent events unfolding with GeoHotz being pursued by Sony, and 'Anonymous' now attacking them allegedly, where do they all stand in terms of the law? I'm not too sure about all the laws regarding hacking and i'm assuming they're different here in the UK than in the US but where do we stand as consumers? Because though i don't know the laws inside out, i'm pretty displeased with the recent 'hacking war' and feel that us consumers, you know, the ones who buy their console to play games are getting the thick end of the stick because of hackers ego's and Sony's iron fist.

I guess my question is, as consumers where do you feel the blame lies and what can we do about it?

I'm siding with Sony from day one for a few reasons.
1.I get sick of dishonest thieves wish they would just admit the real reason they did things.
2.anything to keep the online arena and my fun safe..

The hackers are hurting both Sony and the consumers, so they're undoubtedly the worst of the lot.

Geo has designated himself as their figurehead, and he initiated most of the things that Sony responded to, so I suppose most of the blame goes to him.

As for Sony, I've never owned any of their gaming platforms, but I do think that they've been acting more or less in the right here. Actually, I'm not really sure what they've done wrong...

I've no problem turning your 360/ps3/Wii, whatever into whatever the hell you want, as long as it's kept in the privacy of your own home. Releasing info to the general public which compromises the security of the product (especially in cases like this which involve software that you are leasing...no different than when you purchase a computer with Windows or MacOS) doesn't do anyone any good...except bragging rights for the hacker and inevitably, pirators. The industry and general consumers suffer for it.

Same, i'm with Sony on this. I mean, they've certainly been flexing their corporation muscle recently but i guess that's a good message to send to the others. I don't know how anyone can side with Hotz, i mean he released the skeleton key onto the internet, that's damn irresponsible. Perhaps if he'd shown Sony how easy it was, they'd have lauded him.

if script kiddies i mean Anon didnt get involved i would have been a lot more neutral, but since they started acting as if they were some force not to be messed with...wait sorry the basement dwellers who are overly fond trolling people when they ran out of pizza getting themselves involved "in the name of the consumer" even though it essentially isnt their fight.

Ah well think they got a massive backlash for this one i had some respect for them with the wikileaks thing but now nah....they are a disjointed organisation of idiots that are easily led by the current trend.

I've no problem turning your 360/ps3/Wii, whatever into whatever the hell you want, as long as it's kept in the privacy of your own home. Releasing info to the general public which compromises the security of the product (especially in cases like this which involve software that you are leasing...no different than when you purchase a computer with Windows or MacOS) doesn't do anyone any good...except bragging rights for the hacker and inevitably, pirators. The industry and general consumers suffer for it.

TheMoreYouOwn

That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. It's one thing to tinkering with your machine at home, another is posting trade secrets in a public forum.

I wonder how many people here pirate movies, music or jailbreak their iPhones.

"Hacking" is only bad until it inconveniences them.

Hmm...dont really care either way, i have a pc and we have admins in our servers, so even if there is a hacker hes only there for about 1 minute. Plus if its steam server vac protected you submit his steam id with proof and there is a good chance he wont be able to play on vac protected servers anymore.

I wonder how many people here pirate movies, music or jailbreak their iPhones.

"Hacking" is only bad until it inconveniences them.

XaosII

I wonder how many people here pirate movies, music or jailbreak their iPhones.

"Hacking" is only bad until it inconveniences them.

XaosII

nope i fully support the music industry, as a musician myself i know how hard it is to get off the ground and i respect where those musicians have gotten to if anything im one of THE most vocal supporters of the industry an anti-piracy in the music industry you will ever meet.

My 300 cds and 30 odd vinyls,aswell as around 30 band t-shirts and seen over 100 bands live aswell.Piracy is something i hate cause its essentially causing stagnation in the upper echelons and labels are less willing to take risks as profits decline it hurts me.

Im also a person who buys dvd's still and goes to the cinema least every few weeks aswell.

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

I wonder how many people here pirate movies, music or jailbreak their iPhones.

"Hacking" is only bad until it inconveniences them.

campzor

Hmmm... and here I thought the overwhelming majority would vote for the consumer. I never realized so many people liked being bent over by a corporation.dzimm

Well it's not as bad as you think actually after the first time. :P

Hmmm... and here I thought the overwhelming majority would vote for the consumer. I never realized so many people liked being bent over by a corporation.dzimm

On an unrelated note, Sony's security is absolute crap if they're relying on "security through obscurity".

Hmmm... and here I thought the overwhelming majority would vote for the consumer. I never realized so many people liked being bent over by a corporation.dzimm

thing is i live in the UK consumers are held more higlhy in regard to the corporations.

Also the government bend us over more than any corporation ever do..our fuel duty is astronomical here for a start and night outs cost a bomb.

[QUOTE="dzimm"]Hmmm... and here I thought the overwhelming majority would vote for the consumer. I never realized so many people liked being bent over by a corporation.campzor

Then I take it you're on the side of the consumer.

Let me put it like this: if the consumer isn't getting screwed by hackers, and they're not getting screwed by Sony, then the consumer wins. Isn't that a good thing?

[QUOTE="campzor"][QUOTE="dzimm"]Hmmm... and here I thought the overwhelming majority would vote for the consumer. I never realized so many people liked being bent over by a corporation.dzimm

Then I take it you're on the side of the consumer.

Hmmm... and here I thought the overwhelming majority would vote for the consumer. I never realized so many people liked being bent over by a corporation.dzimm

This poll is kind of a trap, honestly. Common sense dictates that, obviously, we don't want to be "bent over" as you so elegantly put it. And as of yet, nobody has been, as much as the minority will scream on about how Linux removal was akin to a Sony rear pounding.

Hmmm... and here I thought the overwhelming majority would vote for the consumer. I never realized so many people liked being bent over by a corporation.dzimm

[QUOTE="dzimm"]Hmmm... and here I thought the overwhelming majority would vote for the consumer. I never realized so many people liked being bent over by a corporation.TheMoreYouOwn

This poll is kind of a trap, honestly. Common sense dictates that, obviously, we don't want to be "bent over" as you so elegantly put it. And as of yet, nobody has been, as much as the minority will scream on about how Linux removal was akin to a Sony rear pounding.

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

I wonder how many people here pirate movies, music or jailbreak their iPhones.

"Hacking" is only bad until it inconveniences them.

campzor

Consumer. Purchasing a product should make it yours.caughtjoo

Consumers = PSN users.

[QUOTE="caughtjoo"]Consumer. Purchasing a product should make it yours.Ratchet_Fan8

I'm siding with Sony from day one for a few reasons.
1.I get sick of dishonest thieves wish they would just admit the real reason they did things.
2.anything to keep the online arena and my fun safe..

WilliamRLBaker

I agree with you. However, since sony caused the anon to attack by going a tad too far, I voted for the consumer. I'd prefer sony, but if they try to fight the hackers, the war is going to be long and drawn out. Quick war please.

DDOS isn't hacking. SAGE_OF_FIRE

Indeed, DDOS is normally how you troll corporations.

people hate gehot because he released the metldr keys... but that has nothing to do with the lawsuit. As sony named failoverflow in the same suit and they distributed nothing.

Sony wants to say they own your PS3, and you arent allowed to touch it unless they approve. Thats really all there is to it. Hopefully sony wins this suit, and the law gets applied to PCs... because i have been installling way too much homebrew to my PC and i gots no right,

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

I'm siding with Sony from day one for a few reasons.
1.I get sick of dishonest thieves wish they would just admit the real reason they did things.
2.anything to keep the online arena and my fun safe..

RandomWinner

I agree with you. However, since sony caused the anon to attack by going a tad too far, I voted for the consumer. I'd prefer sony, but if they try to fight the hackers, the war is going to be long and drawn out. Quick war please.

I wonder how many people here pirate movies, music or jailbreak their iPhones.

"Hacking" is only bad until it inconveniences them.

XaosII

I can't speak for everyone, but I'm one of those weirdos who thinks that buying everything and supporting the industry is the right thing to do.
Nor do I have a PS3, so none of this inconveniences me in any way. It just seems pretty clear from this 'neutral' position that the 'hackers'/attention seekers/arrogant sociopaths are in the wrong here.

Consumers... and by extension the "hackers". I'm tired of big corporations getting their way... nickel and diming me to death and so forth. Anyone that can knock them down a peg, I salute you! *salutes*

Sony needs knocked down a few pegs, do they deserve to have things stolen from them? no... should they have more rights than any individual... no sir. If Sony feels that strongly about piracy, they should be going after the individual who is pirating software... "Oh but thats too difficult to persecute each individual.." Well too BLEEPING BAD, the law should not make concessions for large corporations out of convenience...

people hate gehot because he released the metldr keys... but that has nothing to do with the lawsuit. As sony named failoverflow in the same suit and they distributed nothing.

Sony wants to say they own your PS3, and you arent allowed to touch it unless they approve. Thats really all there is to it. Hopefully sony wins this suit, and the law gets applied to PCs... because i have been installling way too much homebrew to my PC and i gots no right,

markinthedark

Consumers... and by extension the "hackers". I'm tired of big corporations getting their way... nickel and diming me to death and so forth. Anyone that can knock them down a peg, I salute you! *salutes*

Sony needs knocked down a few pegs, do they deserve to have things stolen from them? no... should they have more rights than any individual... no sir. If Sony feels that strongly about piracy, they should be going after the individual who is pirating software... "Oh but thats too difficult to persecute each individual.." Well too BLEEPING BAD, the law should not make concessions for large corporations out of convenience...

moistsandwich

Consumers... and by extension the "hackers". I'm tired of big corporations getting their way... nickel and diming me to death and so forth. Anyone that can knock them down a peg, I salute you! *salutes*

Sony needs knocked down a few pegs, do they deserve to have things stolen from them? no... should they have more rights than any individual... no sir. If Sony feels that strongly about piracy, they should be going after the individual who is pirating software... "Oh but thats too difficult to persecute each individual.." Well too BLEEPING BAD, the law should not make concessions for large corporations out of convenience...

moistsandwich

How are you nickeled and dimed when you voluntarily do the purchasing?

Consumers... and by extension the "hackers". I'm tired of big corporations getting their way... nickel and diming me to death and so forth. Anyone that can knock them down a peg, I salute you! *salutes*

Sony needs knocked down a few pegs, do they deserve to have things stolen from them? no... should they have more rights than any individual... no sir. If Sony feels that strongly about piracy, they should be going after the individual who is pirating software... "Oh but thats too difficult to persecute each individual.." Well too BLEEPING BAD, the law should not make concessions for large corporations out of convenience...

moistsandwich

How in this case would sony have more rights than an individual? The hackers are altering sony's code to perform illegal operations. Also why would sony go after individuals pirating and not the source of the problem? I don't understand your post at all dude.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

people hate gehot because he released the metldr keys... but that has nothing to do with the lawsuit. As sony named failoverflow in the same suit and they distributed nothing.

Sony wants to say they own your PS3, and you arent allowed to touch it unless they approve. Thats really all there is to it. Hopefully sony wins this suit, and the law gets applied to PCs... because i have been installling way too much homebrew to my PC and i gots no right,

lucky_star

they arent saying that, they named failoverflow in the same suit they are hitting geohot with, and failoverflow released no frimware, no metldr keys, nothing, they kept it all private.

Sony is going after failoverflow, because they used sony hardware in an unapproved method. Which is what Sony is fighting for... you arent allowed to use your PS3, in anyway that sony doesnt approve of. This is fact.

and again i want to point out sony sees no problem in secretly installing rootkits on everyone's PC. Sony hates consumers, Sony wants control over systems they didnt even sell to you, this is fact. If you bought a PC with no sony hardware, they want control over your PC as well, and will secretly install rootkits to gain control of your PC.

Hacking is basically cyber terrorism.tomarlyn

Not really, hacking has a very negative stereotype attached to the word, but it is a good and a bad thing.. it all depends on the use.

Hacking is basically cyber terrorism.tomarlyn

[QUOTE="moistsandwich"]

Consumers... and by extension the "hackers". I'm tired of big corporations getting their way... nickel and diming me to death and so forth. Anyone that can knock them down a peg, I salute you! *salutes*

Sony needs knocked down a few pegs, do they deserve to have things stolen from them? no... should they have more rights than any individual... no sir. If Sony feels that strongly about piracy, they should be going after the individual who is pirating software... "Oh but thats too difficult to persecute each individual.." Well too BLEEPING BAD, the law should not make concessions for large corporations out of convenience...

Espada12

How in this case would sony have more rights than an individual? The hackers are altering sony's code to perform illegal operations. Also why would sony go after individuals pirating and not the source of the problem? I don't understand your post at all dude.

SOmeone makes a video about me and puts in on youtube... I dont like it so I say "I WANT EVERY PERSONS IP WHO WATCHED THAT VIDEO RIGHT NOW"... think I'll get it?

[QUOTE="moistsandwich"]

Consumers... and by extension the "hackers". I'm tired of big corporations getting their way... nickel and diming me to death and so forth. Anyone that can knock them down a peg, I salute you! *salutes*

Sony needs knocked down a few pegs, do they deserve to have things stolen from them? no... should they have more rights than any individual... no sir. If Sony feels that strongly about piracy, they should be going after the individual who is pirating software... "Oh but thats too difficult to persecute each individual.." Well too BLEEPING BAD, the law should not make concessions for large corporations out of convenience...

TheMoreYouOwn

How are you nickeled and dimed when you voluntarily do the purchasing?

Every purchase is voluntary... so where did the term "nickel and diming" come from then? Or is everyone who ever used it in the wrong?

Just because I have a choice on whether to purchase something, doesnt mean I'm not being "nickel and dimed".

[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]Hacking is basically cyber terrorism.blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"]Hacking is basically cyber terrorism.Sandvichman

Complain to Sony.

[QUOTE="Sandvichman"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] Whats putting out misinformation to the press by a giant corporation vs an individual?blue_hazy_basic

Complain to Sony.

they arent saying that, they named failoverflow in the same suit they are hitting geohot with, and failoverflow released no frimware, no metldr keys, nothing, they kept it all private. Sony is going after failoverflow, because they used sony hardware in an unapproved method. markinthedark

If he's done nothing wrong, then the law will find him innocent and there'll be nothing to get worked up about.
Whereas if the law finds that he has contributed in some way - even if he kept it private - then the outcome of that could be important for all digital media corporations.

Either way, it's a matter for the law to decide, not a bunch of ignorant 'hackers'.

Which is what Sony is fighting for... you arent allowed to use your PS3, in anyway that sony doesnt approve of. This is fact.markinthedark

Which is perfectly justified, really. Especially when the disapproved ways lead to compromised online play for the consumers, and piracy which hurts both Sony and the developers.

Again, if this is a breach of consumer rights, the courts will make a judgement on that. So surely everyone should just wait and see.

Sony hates consumers, this is fact.markinthedark

That's not fact, that's pointless Sony hate. They love consumers since consumers are the main source of their income.