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[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]Did I try?[QUOTE="Sandvichman"] I was banned from black ops by a hacker, and i cant go into killzone any more, how do you justify that?Sandvichman
Complain to Sony.
Why would i do that? Id rather see the source be taken care of.i would as well, when sony installed a rootkit on my PC... and tried to steal my Pc hardware from me.... i wanna see them burn for thinking they own my PC that consists of no sony products.
[QUOTE="tomarlyn"]Hacking is basically cyber terrorism.Espada12
Not really, hacking has a very negative stereotype attached to the word, but it is a good and a bad thing.. it all depends on the use.
I fail to see how this is good use.Why would i do that? Id rather see the source be taken care of.[QUOTE="Sandvichman"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]Did I try?
Complain to Sony.
markinthedark
i would as well, when sony installed a rootkit on my PC... and tried to steal my Pc hardware from me.... i wanna see them burn for thinking they own my PC that consists of no sony products.
So, 2 wrongs makes a right? Strawmen anyone.[QUOTE="markinthedark"]
If he's done nothing wrong, then the law will find him innocent and there'll be nothing to get worked up about.
Whereas if the law finds that he has contributed in some way - even if he kept it private - then the outcome of that could be important for all digital media corporations.Either way, it's a matter for the law to decide, not a bunch of ignorant 'hackers'.
[QUOTE="markinthedark"]Which is what Sony is fighting for... you arent allowed to use your PS3, in anyway that sony doesnt approve of. This is fact.Planeforger
Which is perfectly justified, really. Especially when the disapproved ways lead to compromised online play for the consumers, and piracy which hurts both Sony and the developers.
Again, if this is a breach of consumer rights, the courts will make a judgement on that. So surely everyone should just wait and see.
Sony hates consumers, this is fact.markinthedark
That's not fact, that's pointless Sony hate. They love consumers since consumers are the main source of their income.
sony loves consumers, why do they hide rootkits on their music CDs? I own no sony PC parts, why do i have a sony rootkit installed on my PC?
[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="tomarlyn"]Hacking is basically cyber terrorism.Sandvichman
Not really, hacking has a very negative stereotype attached to the word, but it is a good and a bad thing.. it all depends on the use.
I fail to see how this is good use. Its ok... let them feel rebelious
I was banned from black ops by a hacker, and i cant go into killzone any more, how do you justify that?SandvichmanDid I try?
Complain to Sony.
Why would i do that? Id rather see the source be taken care of. Thats what I said.[QUOTE="markinthedark"][QUOTE="Sandvichman"] Why would i do that? Id rather see the source be taken care of. Sandvichman
i would as well, when sony installed a rootkit on my PC... and tried to steal my Pc hardware from me.... i wanna see them burn for thinking they own my PC that consists of no sony products.
So, 2 wrongs makes a right? Strawmen anyone.strawman is the mythical invocation anyone that has no counter arguement makes. Strawman is soooo overused on system wars.
[QUOTE="Sandvichman"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"]Did I try?Why would i do that? Id rather see the source be taken care of. Thats what I said.Complain to Sony.
blue_hazy_basic
So why would i complain to sony? They didnt cause this, i would like to see it fixed, but im not going to complain.
So, 2 wrongs makes a right? Strawmen anyone.[QUOTE="Sandvichman"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]
i would as well, when sony installed a rootkit on my PC... and tried to steal my Pc hardware from me.... i wanna see them burn for thinking they own my PC that consists of no sony products.
markinthedark
strawman is the mythical invocation anyone that has no counter arguement makes. Strawman is soooo overused on system wars.
So your logic is, that since sony made a dumbass move 20 years ago, anything against is ok? Let me guess, if someone stole a car, it would be ok to steal his brothers car 20 years later? What is this, vendetta, vengeance, i like to see how this would work out in modern society.
sony loves consumers, why do they hide rootkits on their music CDs? I own no sony PC parts, why do i have a sony rootkit installed on my PC?
markinthedark
I've got no idea, although I'd guess that it was an ill-conceived attempt at copy prevention.
And in any case, didn't that happen ages ago?
Thats what I said.[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="Sandvichman"] Why would i do that? Id rather see the source be taken care of. Sandvichman
So why would i complain to sony? They didnt cause this, i would like to see it fixed, but im not going to complain.
Sony, by putting out all kinds of untruths, like Geo fleeing to south america to live there on the money raised for his legal defence to try and cut off his funding, brought them upon themselves. If they ahd proceeded in a reasonable manner I doubt this would ever have come to pass[QUOTE="markinthedark"][QUOTE="Sandvichman"] So, 2 wrongs makes a right? Strawmen anyone.Sandvichman
strawman is the mythical invocation anyone that has no counter arguement makes. Strawman is soooo overused on system wars.
So your logic is, that since sony made a dumbass move 20 years ago, anything against is ok? Let me guess, if someone stole a car, it would be ok to steal his brothers car 20 years later? What is this, vendetta, vengeance, i like to see how this would work out in modern society.not 20 years ago... and it was a willful attack against their consumers (that involved heavy funding).... which apparently jives with their corporate culture. If the idea of hiding rootkits on people's PCs is considered legit by the higher ups at sony.... why are we giving them so much credit now? Did sony learn their lesson, by having no repercussions for their actions? i know thats when i always learn my lesson.... when nothing happens.
[QUOTE="Sandvichman"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] Thats what I said.blue_hazy_basic
So why would i complain to sony? They didnt cause this, i would like to see it fixed, but im not going to complain.
Sony, by putting out all kinds of untruths, like Geo fleeing to south america to live there on the money raised for his legal defence to try and cut off his funding, brought them upon themselves. If they ahd proceeded in a reasonable manner I doubt this would ever have come to pass I cant care what sony did, they have done their shair, but geo is no angel, blackmailing, lying, tampering with evidence is not a good thing you know. And quite frankly, he ruined my game of black ops, why would i give him slack?[QUOTE="markinthedark"]
sony loves consumers, why do they hide rootkits on their music CDs? I own no sony PC parts, why do i have a sony rootkit installed on my PC?
Planeforger
I've got no idea, although I'd guess that it was an ill-conceived attempt at copy prevention.
And in any case, didn't that happen ages ago?
it was like 5 years ago, but regardless... do we really think sony totally learned their lesson and is in it for the consumers now? Or is sony the same old sony that will lie cheat and steal to get their way.
So your logic is, that since sony made a dumbass move 20 years ago, anything against is ok? Let me guess, if someone stole a car, it would be ok to steal his brothers car 20 years later? What is this, vendetta, vengeance, i like to see how this would work out in modern society.[QUOTE="Sandvichman"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]
strawman is the mythical invocation anyone that has no counter arguement makes. Strawman is soooo overused on system wars.
markinthedark
not 20 years ago... and it was a willful attack against their consumers (that involved heavy funding).... which apparently jives with their corporate culture. If the idea of hiding rootkits on people's PCs is considered legit by the higher ups at sony.... why are we giving them so much credit now? Did sony learn their lesson, by having no repercussions for their actions? i know thats when i always learn my lesson.... when nothing happens.
It was still a while ago, heck i wasnt even using computers then. It was a stupid move by them, but how does that amke geos actions ok? So someone craps on sony, hurt everyone including consumers, developers, but thats ok because you have this false sense of being this vendetta? Why should i justify this, because of him, i cant play black ops.[QUOTE="Planeforger"]
[QUOTE="markinthedark"]
sony loves consumers, why do they hide rootkits on their music CDs? I own no sony PC parts, why do i have a sony rootkit installed on my PC?
markinthedark
I've got no idea, although I'd guess that it was an ill-conceived attempt at copy prevention.
And in any case, didn't that happen ages ago?
it was like 5 years ago, but regardless... do we really think sony totally learned their lesson and is in it for the consumers now? Or is sony the same old sony that will lie cheat and steal to get their way.
What does that have to do with this case?
[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="Sandvichman"]Sony, by putting out all kinds of untruths, like Geo fleeing to south america to live there on the money raised for his legal defence to try and cut off his funding, brought them upon themselves. If they ahd proceeded in a reasonable manner I doubt this would ever have come to pass I cant care what sony did, they have done their shair, but geo is no angel, blackmailing, lying, tampering with evidence is not a good thing you know. And quite frankly, he ruined my game of black ops, why would i give him slack? Sandvich the sheer fact sony expects Mark to pay money for a video game enrages him. He's the top proponent of hacking and piracy since this whole george thing started. He's been there siding with and trying to defend every thing that happens to sony in this proceeding.So why would i complain to sony? They didnt cause this, i would like to see it fixed, but im not going to complain.
Sandvichman
[QUOTE="Sandvichman"]Sony, by putting out all kinds of untruths, like Geo fleeing to south america to live there on the money raised for his legal defence to try and cut off his funding, brought them upon themselves. If they ahd proceeded in a reasonable manner I doubt this would ever have come to passSo why would i complain to sony? They didnt cause this, i would like to see it fixed, but im not going to complain.
blue_hazy_basic
They didn't lie about the South America thing.
They very truthfully told the court that they couldn't get in contact with him because he was in South America at the time. They suggested that he might have done that to attempt to delay the trial as much as possible, but that's just standard legal practice, any big firm will do it.
Plus, they could be right.
GeoHot hasn't exactly been a model litigant this whole time - he publically told Sony to 'bring it on', and had made all sorts of inciteful claims. And that's after over a year of making public claims about hacking the PS3, not to mention his threats against Sony.
So...how exactly are his actions "acting in a reasonable manner"? Sony's just defending their interests through legal channels.
[QUOTE="markinthedark"][QUOTE="Planeforger"]
I've got no idea, although I'd guess that it was an ill-conceived attempt at copy prevention.
And in any case, didn't that happen ages ago?
Sandvichman
it was like 5 years ago, but regardless... do we really think sony totally learned their lesson and is in it for the consumers now? Or is sony the same old sony that will lie cheat and steal to get their way.
What does that have to do with this case?portraying geo as a international fugitive? using evidenciary proceedings to take geo's HDDs because they might have the SDK which they say will link him to SCEA... even thought the SDK is proven part of SCEI terms? They willfully lied to obtain his HDDs.
Sony lies, alot. Their track record is actually worse than MS's for anyone that cares to check it out.
I cant care what sony did, they have done their shair, but geo is no angel, blackmailing, lying, tampering with evidence is not a good thing you know. And quite frankly, he ruined my game of black ops, why would i give him slack? Sandvich the sheer fact sony expects Mark to pay money for a video game enrages him. He's the top proponent of hacking and piracy since this whole george thing started. He's been there siding with and trying to defend every thing that happens to sony in this proceeding. Sony's entire case against the dude specifically dances around the issue of pirated video games, since he didn't directly touch that - that's not what they're about. It's 100% 'using our hardware in a way we don't approve of.' Bringing up piracy is pretty much one of those strawman things that people were going on about earlier on this page. And anyway, Sony DADC is SecuROM, that software that people were still whining about... what, a month ago? I buy new, support devs/publishers, and am generally on the side of the companies on this forum. Even I'm not silly enough to vote 'Sony' on this case vs. 'consumers.' Why would I *want* them to win over specifically me?[QUOTE="Sandvichman"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] Sony, by putting out all kinds of untruths, like Geo fleeing to south america to live there on the money raised for his legal defence to try and cut off his funding, brought them upon themselves. If they ahd proceeded in a reasonable manner I doubt this would ever have come to passWilliamRLBaker
What does that have to do with this case?[QUOTE="Sandvichman"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]
it was like 5 years ago, but regardless... do we really think sony totally learned their lesson and is in it for the consumers now? Or is sony the same old sony that will lie cheat and steal to get their way.
markinthedark
portraying geo as a international fugitive? using evidenciary proceedings to take geo's HDDs because they might have the SDK which they say will link him to SCEA... even thought the SDK is proven part of SCEI terms? They willfully lied to obtain his HDDs.
Sony lies, alot. Their track record is actually worse than MS's for anyone that cares to check it out.
But you know what? I've got no sympathy. Hotz started this, Sony are ending it.I cant care what sony did, they have done their shair, but geo is no angel, blackmailing, lying, tampering with evidence is not a good thing you know. And quite frankly, he ruined my game of black ops, why would i give him slack? Sandvich the sheer fact sony expects Mark to pay money for a video game enrages him. He's the top proponent of hacking and piracy since this whole george thing started. He's been there siding with and trying to defend every thing that happens to sony in this proceeding.[QUOTE="Sandvichman"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"] Sony, by putting out all kinds of untruths, like Geo fleeing to south america to live there on the money raised for his legal defence to try and cut off his funding, brought them upon themselves. If they ahd proceeded in a reasonable manner I doubt this would ever have come to passWilliamRLBaker
oh snap personal attacks.
My natural reaction is to always to side with the underdog being crushed by the corporate gaint... because 90% of the time the common man being crushed by the corporate behemoth isnt being crushed because hes wrong, but because hes poor. Financially devastating someone is only an option available to one party.
If i see good reason to, my opinion will change because im not that thick headed... but i still havent seen a viable reason to side with sony on this issue.
If warren buffet or bill gates posted the metldr keys on their blog, sony would stay silent and do nothing. Its a power play against a percieved weak target and nothing more.
Hackers. I'm sick of super strict IP rights and of ignorant consumers.markop2003Yes, those hackers are delivering me freedom, the freedom if not being able to play black ops, they are also dropping freedom on my fat princess servers, or the freedom they used in killzone against me, i love freedom.
[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]Sandvich the sheer fact sony expects Mark to pay money for a video game enrages him. He's the top proponent of hacking and piracy since this whole george thing started. He's been there siding with and trying to defend every thing that happens to sony in this proceeding. Sony's entire case against the dude specifically dances around the issue of pirated video games, since he didn't directly touch that - that's not what they're about. It's 100% 'using our hardware in a way we don't approve of.' Bringing up piracy is pretty much one of those strawman things that people were going on about earlier on this page. And anyway, Sony DADC is SecuROM, that software that people were still whining about... what, a month ago? I buy new, support devs/publishers, and am generally on the side of the companies on this forum. Even I'm not silly enough to vote 'Sony' on this case vs. 'consumers.' Why would I *want* them to win over specifically me? i don't think its the hardware sony is upset about, its the manipulation of their software, gaining secure information, then distributing, I'm all for allowing people to use their own hardware for w/e thye want, but I believe if someone wants to do that then they should format and uninstall any copyrighted software.[QUOTE="Sandvichman"] I cant care what sony did, they have done their shair, but geo is no angel, blackmailing, lying, tampering with evidence is not a good thing you know. And quite frankly, he ruined my game of black ops, why would i give him slack?Makari
portraying geo as a international fugitive? using evidenciary proceedings to take geo's HDDs because they might have the SDK which they say will link him to SCEA... even thought the SDK is proven part of SCEI terms? They willfully lied to obtain his HDDs.
Sony lies, alot. Their track record is actually worse than MS's for anyone that cares to check it out.
markinthedark
I think you're forgetting that this is a court case.
Lawyers don't just argue a few small points, especially in a big case like this one - they'll comprehensively go through the list of anything they could potentially sue the opposing party for, and as long as they can justify that claim to some degree (even if it turns out to be wrong), then it's fine.
Perhaps they threw some of these things in there on the off-chance that they stick, perhaps they just wanted to clarify a point of law. Whatever the case, if the courts find no basis on some of these claims, they'll dismiss them immediately with no harm done.
They're not lying, they're just doing a pretty standard (large) lawsuit. If they were lying to the courts, they'd be in a ton of trouble by now.
As for portraying Geo as a fugitive...they merely said that he was overseas at the time. It was a bad time and he looked suspicious...what else is there to say?
As for obtaining the HDDs, they must have had a subpoena/warrant for that, which means that the seizure went through the proper legal channels, that the facts were all checked out, etc. If it was such a simple 'lie', why didn't anyone pick up on that?
[QUOTE="markinthedark"]
portraying geo as a international fugitive? using evidenciary proceedings to take geo's HDDs because they might have the SDK which they say will link him to SCEA... even thought the SDK is proven part of SCEI terms? They willfully lied to obtain his HDDs.
Sony lies, alot. Their track record is actually worse than MS's for anyone that cares to check it out.
Planeforger
I think you're forgetting that this is a court case.
Lawyers don't just argue a few small points, especially in a big case like this one - they'll comprehensively go through the list of anything they could potentially sue the opposing party for, and as long as they can justify that claim to some degree (even if it turns out to be wrong), then it's fine.
Perhaps they threw some of these things in there on the off-chance that they stick, perhaps they just wanted to clarify a point of law. Whatever the case, if the courts find no basis on some of these claims, they'll dismiss them immediately with no harm done.
They're not lying, they're just doing a pretty standard (large) lawsuit. If they were lying to the courts, they'd be in a ton of trouble by now.
As for portraying Geo as a fugitive...they merely said that he was overseas at the time. It was a bad time and he looked suspicious...what else is there to say?
As for obtaining the HDDs, they must have had a subpoena/warrant for that, which means that the seizure went through the proper legal channels, that the facts were all checked out, etc. If it was such a simple 'lie', why didn't anyone pick up on that?
well sony defers to their california legal team, if they lose the jurisdiction hearing, they lose out on a ton of money. So their singular goal is to win jurisdiction, no matter what the cost. Sony clearly didnt give them any ethical limitations.
and they didnt merely say geohot was out of the country, they insinuated he was dodging the law.
at this point sony would kill a baby if it won them california jurisdiction, dont convince yourself otherwise.
[QUOTE="markinthedark"]
portraying geo as a international fugitive? using evidenciary proceedings to take geo's HDDs because they might have the SDK which they say will link him to SCEA... even thought the SDK is proven part of SCEI terms? They willfully lied to obtain his HDDs.
Sony lies, alot. Their track record is actually worse than MS's for anyone that cares to check it out.
Planeforger
I think you're forgetting that this is a court case.
Lawyers don't just argue a few small points, especially in a big case like this one - they'll comprehensively go through the list of anything they could potentially sue the opposing party for, and as long as they can justify that claim to some degree (even if it turns out to be wrong), then it's fine.
Perhaps they threw some of these things in there on the off-chance that they stick, perhaps they just wanted to clarify a point of law. Whatever the case, if the courts find no basis on some of these claims, they'll dismiss them immediately with no harm done.
They're not lying, they're just doing a pretty standard (large) lawsuit. If they were lying to the courts, they'd be in a ton of trouble by now.
As for portraying Geo as a fugitive...they merely said that he was overseas at the time. It was a bad time and he looked suspicious...what else is there to say?
As for obtaining the HDDs, they must have had a subpoena/warrant for that, which means that the seizure went through the proper legal channels, that the facts were all checked out, etc. If it was such a simple 'lie', why didn't anyone pick up on that?
they aren't lying, they've just taken a couple shady steps then said 'oh, whoops, our mistake' when nothing panned out from it. if the police themselves did something like that it'd get the entire case tossed, but such is civil law!the whole other misc. people jumping on sony and especially their employees is pretty horrible, though. :\
edit: markinthedark, i don't think it's so much costing sony a ton of money that's at stake as it is costing *hotz* a ton of money if they land CA jurisdiction, and most likely a very friendly judge to them in the specific region they're gunning for. bouncing lawyers across the country to show up for court dates isn't as big a deal for an international corp as it is for a 20 year old dude.
My natural reaction is to always to side with the underdog being crushed by the corporate gaint... because 90% of the time the common man being crushed by the corporate behemoth isnt being crushed because hes wrong, but because hes poor. Financially devastating someone is only an option available to one party.
markinthedark
Well, in this case the underdog had provoked the big corporation numerous times (despite being warned...right?), and had intentionally revealed security details which would compromise the big company's products and income.
So this case is less about an underdog being crushed by a corporate giant, and more like an annoying kid constantly prodding an elder sibling in the hopes for attention, before eventually being punched in the face.
*edit* Although yes, fair points on the jurisdiction thing. I hadn't been following that part too closely.
[QUOTE="Planeforger"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]
portraying geo as a international fugitive? using evidenciary proceedings to take geo's HDDs because they might have the SDK which they say will link him to SCEA... even thought the SDK is proven part of SCEI terms? They willfully lied to obtain his HDDs.
Sony lies, alot. Their track record is actually worse than MS's for anyone that cares to check it out.
Makari
I think you're forgetting that this is a court case.
Lawyers don't just argue a few small points, especially in a big case like this one - they'll comprehensively go through the list of anything they could potentially sue the opposing party for, and as long as they can justify that claim to some degree (even if it turns out to be wrong), then it's fine.
Perhaps they threw some of these things in there on the off-chance that they stick, perhaps they just wanted to clarify a point of law. Whatever the case, if the courts find no basis on some of these claims, they'll dismiss them immediately with no harm done.
They're not lying, they're just doing a pretty standard (large) lawsuit. If they were lying to the courts, they'd be in a ton of trouble by now.
As for portraying Geo as a fugitive...they merely said that he was overseas at the time. It was a bad time and he looked suspicious...what else is there to say?
As for obtaining the HDDs, they must have had a subpoena/warrant for that, which means that the seizure went through the proper legal channels, that the facts were all checked out, etc. If it was such a simple 'lie', why didn't anyone pick up on that?
they aren't lying, they've just taken a couple shady steps then said 'oh, whoops, our mistake' when nothing panned out from it. if the police themselves did something like that it'd get the entire case tossed, but such is civil law! the whole other misc. people jumping on sony and especially their employees is pretty horrible, though. :\exactly SCEA said the PSn name Geo1hot was owned by geohot and they had proof. When it came proof time they were all like "whoops guess we lied, our bad"
sony is shady as hell. Just the sheer amount of frivilous documents they have sealed by the court proves a transparent trial won on legal grounds isnt on their agenda.
sony is shady as hell. Just the sheer amount of frivilous documents they have sealed by the court proves a transparent trial won on legal grounds isnt on their agenda.markinthedarkI love this, I truely do it's so easy to blame the big evil corperation for everything. Hotz is no different in the "Shady" department. "Oh thats not MY Ps3 I just hooked it up for my convient neighbor over here" Both sides will do whatever it takes to win the case, shady or not.
[QUOTE="markinthedark"]
My natural reaction is to always to side with the underdog being crushed by the corporate gaint... because 90% of the time the common man being crushed by the corporate behemoth isnt being crushed because hes wrong, but because hes poor. Financially devastating someone is only an option available to one party.
Planeforger
Well, in this case the underdog had provoked the big corporation numerous times (despite being warned...right?), and had intentionally revealed security details which would compromise the big company's products and income.
So this case is less about an underdog being crushed by a corporate giant, and more like an annoying kid constantly prodding an elder sibling in the hopes for attention, before eventually being punched in the face.
*edit* Although yes, fair points on the jurisdiction thing. I hadn't been following that part too closely.
the same lawsuit names failoverflow, that revealed and distributed nothing, remember that.
this isnt about what geohot told people... the case is what geohot did to his own ps3, which you would think he owns.
[QUOTE="markinthedark"]sony is shady as hell. Just the sheer amount of frivilous documents they have sealed by the court proves a transparent trial won on legal grounds isnt on their agenda.JynxzorI love this, I truely do it's so easy to blame the big evil corperation for everything. Hotz is no different in the "Shady" department. "Oh thats not MY Ps3 I just hooked it up for my convient neighbor over here" Both sides will do whatever it takes to win the case, shady or not.
how many big corporations do you know that put morals above their fiduciary duty to make money for their stock holders? name one.
all that PSN garbage is part of the jurisdiction trial... the hardware and firmware agreements are owned by SCEI. The PSN account is Sony's attempt to tie him to california.
If he circumvented the firmware and hardware security measures, then his beef is with SCEI. SCEA is jumping into this mess and trying everything they can to tie him to california (because they think they have a better chance in cali).... thats what this whole song and dance is about. Trying to say since he violated the SCEI terms, hes somehow under california and SCEA jurisdiction.
Sony is already operating under incredibly shakey legal grounds, which is why jurisdiction is so important to them. This whole lawsuit is based on BS, that has a chance of flying in california, but will be laughed at in any other state.
Hackers recently allowed me to turn my original xbox into a home media center at no cost.
I'll have to side with them...
Hmmm... and here I thought the overwhelming majority would vote for the consumer. I never realized so many people liked being bent over by a corporation.dzimmLoyalty knows no bounds.
I'm siding with Sony from day one for a few reasons.
1.I get sick of dishonest thieves wish they would just admit the real reason they did things.
2.anything to keep the online arena and my fun safe..WilliamRLBaker
I agree. There is no room for such people to have a misplaced sense of entitlement. That is what is wrong with todays society.
[QUOTE="dzimm"]Hmmm... and here I thought the overwhelming majority would vote for the consumer. I never realized so many people liked being bent over by a corporation.Stevo_the_gamerLoyalty knows no bounds.
Alot of people are mad because the hacking is affecting them, loyalty isn't really playing a part here.
Sure it does, nothing has really changed the past few weeks.Alot of people are mad because the hacking is affecting them, loyalty isn't really playing a part here.
Espada12
Sure it does, nothing has really changed the past few weeks.[QUOTE="Espada12"]
Alot of people are mad because the hacking is affecting them, loyalty isn't really playing a part here.
Stevo_the_gamer
Maybe in the start, but recently I've seen more people going against the hackers, not saying they are siding with sony, but more people are pulling their support due to the shenanigans within the last few weeks.
[QUOTE="dzimm"]Hmmm... and here I thought the overwhelming majority would vote for the consumer. I never realized so many people liked being bent over by a corporation.Stevo_the_gamerLoyalty knows no bounds. Not really. The poll is a false choice.
how many big corporations do you know that put morals above their fiduciary duty to make money for their stock holders? name onemarkinthedarkWhat does that have to do with anything I said? Trying to prove that companies are the big bad wolf of the world are we? Many companies a few weeks ago put "Profits" to the side and made very large donations to victims in Japan. Sure you can write this off as a PR move but hell you could say that about anything that ever did happen in the world to anyone. "I helped a granny across the street" Well that was just a PR spin so those hot girls across the street would think your kind.... It's far too easy to blame companies for peoples misgivings and to not bother looking at the whole picture, this issue is where it is not becase of Geohot nor Sony the big issue we have today is because of a poorly thought out DMCA. Of course companies will take advantage of it to make more money...anyone would take advantage of a law that supports them more than the oposing side. Hell police abuse trafic laws all the time to slap people with minor felonies, not usually just because they are jerks but because they have quotas they have to hit to keep there jobs! Blaming Sony for using the law to put itself in the best position to make money is asanine, blaming Sony for attempting to seek the best jurisdiction for there case is asanine. Saying Sony is being "Shady as hell" for doing everything it is legaly allowed to do is stupid as well. Geohot is doing everything he can to win juristiction in a favorable position as well and using "Shady as hell" means to accomplish the same goals. This is a classic case of needing to villify your oposition, you obviously don't want Sony to win for whatever reason. You need to vilify them so you feel good about your position, same way people who want Hotz to loose vilify him as a evil hacker when he is no such thing. He is a person fighting for his rights and has every right to do so, do I agree with how he went about it? Hell no, but I will still give him his day in court and look forward to see what results of this. Personally I don't think Geohot should suffer any legal penalties but he should get a firm slap on the wrist if the law rules against him. Hell I don't "agree" with everything Sony is doing in the case either so don't think I'm a Sony apolagist because they earned quite a bit of scorn from me for the root-kit scandal and other such events. But I still will not deny them the right to fight for there products safety and the safety of there consumers. If Sony is to loose this I think that Other OS should be reinstated and supported for all PS3 modles that can use the feature "the fats" while working on ways to prevent "jailbroken" devices from communicating with there online systems as a jailbroken PS3 should have 0 right to be supported by Sony via software updates or network conectivity to the PSN.
Based on the iPhone Jailbreaking court case which Apple LOST.
"Monday'sdecision, (.pdf) which applies to all mobile smart phones and not the iPad, does not require Apple or other handset makers to allow jailbreaking. Instead, it makes it lawful to circumvent controls designed to block jailbreaking."
Other exemptions to the DMCA announced Monday include:
*allow the unlocking of mobile phones to change carriers.
*allow the cracking of video game digital rights management controls to probe security flaws.
*allow the breaking of DVD encryption by professors, students and documentary makers so the clips can be used for education and commentary.
*allow the blind to circumvent locks on e-books to enable read-aloud features.
*allow the bypassing of broken or irreplaceable dongles.
LINK -->http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/
From a legal perspective it seems that the precedent would agree with Geohotz who has always stated he unlocked the PS3 to use additional features similar to the iPhone.
You yourself are saying all sorts of untruths, Sony never said Geohot "Fled" Sony's LAWYERS said it was a rather convient time to leave the country but said nothing of him fleeing his court battle. Geohots Lawyer is also suspect of some unscrupulous actions as well, I guess we should lump him in as Geohot himself as well right?JynxzorAh so now the lawyers are acting on their own? And what did Geohots lawyer do? I missed that, do you have a link?
Sony are not allowed to contact Geo so how does that have relevance? They would have to contact his attorneys, not him personally. Geo is no saint. Sony did the right thing suing him, trying to fight the battle by proxy through the press before it comes to trial, not so much.They didn't lie about the South America thing.
They very truthfully told the court that they couldn't get in contact with him because he was in South America at the time. They suggested that he might have done that to attempt to delay the trial as much as possible, but that's just standard legal practice, any big firm will do it.Plus, they could be right.
GeoHot hasn't exactly been a model litigant this whole time - he publically told Sony to 'bring it on', and had made all sorts of inciteful claims. And that's after over a year of making public claims about hacking the PS3, not to mention his threats against Sony.So...how exactly are his actions "acting in a reasonable manner"? Sony's just defending their interests through legal channels.
Planeforger
If you buy an console and sign up to their online service, you should know what you're getting into. If you don't like the service they're offering, don't buy it. To claim that Sony is doing the wrong thing is disingenuous - they have to protect their business model, as much as any of us would if put in a similar position.
What Sony hasn't counted on is the fact that gamers have become much better educated/sophisticated in the last few years, particularly with Web 2.0 stuff around - they're not just willing to tow the line of the manufacturers like people did with previous generations of consoles (mainly because they weren't so like computers).
Hacking for the "right" reasons still leads to the fact that it can be abused for the wrong reasons - A flaw exploited to provide a user with something good can easily be turned around and be used to do something bad. Hackers may be limited to what they can do to a console compared to a PC, but it wouldn't stop it being potentially spectacular and damaging to both Sony and PS3 users.
Ah so now the lawyers are acting on their own? And what did Geohots lawyer do? I missed that, do you have a link?blue_hazy_basicGeohotz lawyers is the guy who spun Sony saying "Geohot is not in the country" into "Geohot is fleeing the country!" and also accusing Sony of "Misleading the courts because controler cards were left out" Those were asked for by the intermediary that was in possesion of the drives and Sony didn't say anything about it yet his lawyer tried to put Sony in a dark light anyways. The third party examining the products requested that they get All parts of the hard-drives that had been removed so they could make a full report to Sony. It's all legal spin to make whatever side they are on look best and the oposition look bad. Hell Sony never ever said "Geohot fled the country" but his Lawyer was all like "Geohot did not flee the country like Sony is saying!"
I side with Sony and the game makers, since by extension I am siding with consumers. More piracy leads to stricter copy protection measures and more expensive games, and if we end up having to use serial keys it will be the hackers' faults. Banishing the hackers from PS3 will ensure those of us who play fair will be able to enjoy our PS3s uninhibited with a minimal amount of fuss.
The precedent doesn't really work here because had that DMCA exception added. The exception is specific to mobile devices and doesn't extend to consoles. It is possible in 2012 they may add another exemption for this, but making it specific to mobile devices in the first place makes me suspicious that they may view the situation differently with stuff expected to be in the home.Based on the iPhone Jailbreaking court case which Apple LOST.
"Monday'sdecision, (.pdf) which applies to all mobile smart phones and not the iPad, does not require Apple or other handset makers to allow jailbreaking. Instead, it makes it lawful to circumvent controls designed to block jailbreaking."
Other exemptions to the DMCA announced Monday include:
*allow the unlocking of mobile phones to change carriers.
*allow the cracking of video game digital rights management controls to probe security flaws.
*allow the breaking of DVD encryption by professors, students and documentary makers so the clips can be used for education and commentary.
*allow the blind to circumvent locks on e-books to enable read-aloud features.
*allow the bypassing of broken or irreplaceable dongles.LINK -->http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/07/feds-ok-iphone-jailbreaking/
From a legal perspective it seems that the precedent would agree with Geohotz who has always stated he unlocked the PS3 to use additional features similar to the iPhone.
sonic_spark
[QUOTE="TheMoreYouOwn"]
I've no problem turning your 360/ps3/Wii, whatever into whatever the hell you want, as long as it's kept in the privacy of your own home. Releasing info to the general public which compromises the security of the product (especially in cases like this which involve software that you are leasing...no different than when you purchase a computer with Windows or MacOS) doesn't do anyone any good...except bragging rights for the hacker and inevitably, pirators. The industry and general consumers suffer for it.
Mazoch
That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. It's one thing to tinkering with your machine at home, another is posting trade secrets in a public forum.
Pretty much this. None of this would have gone this far if the guy didint release this info to the public. He did it just to increase his e-penis. Its a dumb mind set to think oh let me release this to the public im sure everyone elsout there has the same exact intention as I do.
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