Hardcores are killing console gaming

Think about it, we constantly want games to best the best damn things ever. Those games take time, and they are few and far between for developers.

Think back to the 80s where arcade games were coming out like crazy and everyone wanted to play them. That's the same thing that Nintendo is trying to accomplish, they're trying to go back to the days where the most hardcore games were SMB and Pac-Man, yet were easy to pick up and play.

Imagine if only hardcore games were made, we'd have hardly any games and though they'd be good, they would appeal to about 2% of people. If a game sold bad, the developer that madeit would be pretty much screwed. Though there are measures to prevent that now, it'd be pretty much what was going on in 83. Now if you try to make games that appeal to casuals/non-gamers, sure 2% of people won't buy them, but the percent that will will be a hell of a lot higher than 2%, plus those games would be cheaper.

Casuals and non-gamers won't kill gaming, they outnumber the hardcores, with game sales increasing, it's coming clear that casuals and non-gamers are preserving gaming. It's a harsh reality to accept, but the casualization of gaming may just be what can help it. Hardcores like me have become obsolete and needy.

Imagine if the only songs that existed were the stuff that was played only on MTV.

That would be such a boring world of music. I wouldn't want gaming to be that way. I dont think anyone here believe casual/non-gamers will kill gaming, just that they'll make hardcore games very rare. It'll kill their gaming preference.

Hardcores made this industry what it is. Who the hell do you think buys the most games and software?

This thread is a disgrace to the history of gaming.

Imagine if the only songs that existed were the stuff that was played only on MTV.

That would be such a boring world of music. I wouldn't want gaming to be that way. I dont think anyone here believe casual/non-gamers will kill gaming, just that they'll make hardcore games very rare. It'll kill their gaming preference.

XaosII

thats a bad comparrison, music doesn't take a team of 150+ just to make one song. Games are costing more to produce now and even more people are involved in the process. Even simple games can have substance.

In the last month or so, the site had a story from NPD showing how most games are bought by a minority of people. Hardcore gamers buy a disproportionate amount of games compared to the average gamer so they are gamers that a lot of publishers are aiming for. You can put out a game and hope it appeals to casuals. Maybe they buy it or maybe they won't. They may have already bought a game recently and won't buy another one. However, if you appeal to the hard core market and if the game is decent, you can expect right away pretty good sales. If it has broad appeal with hard cores, like Halo or GTA, you win big. Nintendo is doing very well with casuals as does EA with the Sims. But few others do that well.

Hardcores made this industry what it is. Who the hell do you think buys the most games and software?

jethrovegas

casual gamers as a whole buy many more games than hardcores.

We're sorry for wanting a game with depth.Ragnarok1051

I'm not trying to say that you should be ashamed of yourself for being hardcore, it's just that trying to appeal to hardcores only hurts publishers and developers.

I don't think you should worry about a lack of good titles because it's the exact opposite right now with all the great stuff coming out in the next few months. If developers don't want to make a big blockbuster game then they can release games on the Xbox live arcade or PSN store.

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

Hardcores made this industry what it is. Who the hell do you think buys the most games and software?

Ontain

casual gamers as a whole buy many more games than hardcores.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6173525.html

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

Hardcores made this industry what it is. Who the hell do you think buys the most games and software?

Ontain

casual gamers as a whole buy many more games than hardcores.

No they do not. Does the average casual by more than 10-15 games a year? If so, I would say that they are hardly "Casual".

Hardcores make up the majority of the sales in the industry.

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

Hardcores made this industry what it is. Who the hell do you think buys the most games and software?

JayPee89

casual gamers as a whole buy many more games than hardcores.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6173525.html

I think he means altogether. 1 hardcore buys more games than 1 casual.

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]We're sorry for wanting a game with depth.CJL13

I'm not trying to say that you should be ashamed of yourself for being hardcore, it's just that trying to appeal to hardcores only hurts publishers and developers.

I don't think you should worry about a lack of good titles because it's the exact opposite right now with all the great stuff coming out in the next few months. If developers don't want to make a big blockbuster game then they can release games on the Xbox live arcade or PSN store.

dracula_16

True, but not everyone can get their consoles online. (Like me) They could sell games at lower prices, but they might get less money.

[QUOTE="CJL13"]

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]We're sorry for wanting a game with depth.JayPee89

I'm not trying to say that you should be ashamed of yourself for being hardcore, it's just that trying to appeal to hardcores only hurts publishers and developers.

Pretty much everyone has a PC, so all they have to do is buy the game, plus PC games are pretty cheap compared to console games. Maybe I should reword the topic to say that it hurts console gaming.

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

Hardcores made this industry what it is. Who the hell do you think buys the most games and software?

jethrovegas

casual gamers as a whole buy many more games than hardcores.

No they do not. Does the average casual by more than 10-15 games a year? If so, I would say that they are hardly "Casual".

Hardcores make up the majority of the sales in the industry.

hardcore make up the majority of sales? yes that's why mario party 8, transformers and spiderman and other movie titles always make it to the top sales. :roll:

The problem with some hardcores is that they believe the world revolves around them and, therefore, developers should cater to them and only them.norfair_dweller

Your attitude disgusts me.

We created gaming, and we are not some small fringe group; hardcores make up the majority of the sales in the games industry.

Do you think that 4 million casuals went out and purchased Gears of War?

Do you think that 3 million casuals went out and bought Oblivion?

Do you think that 1.7 million casuals went out and bought Dead Rising?

Do you think that of the 18 million people that bought GTA: San Andreas, that the majority were "casuals"?

Hardcores are the lifeblood of gaming.

[QUOTE="CJL13"]

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]We're sorry for wanting a game with depth.JayPee89

I'm not trying to say that you should be ashamed of yourself for being hardcore, it's just that trying to appeal to hardcores only hurts publishers and developers.

epic likes selling it's engine ;)

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]We're sorry for wanting a game with depth.CJL13

I'm not trying to say that you should be ashamed of yourself for being hardcore, it's just that trying to appeal to hardcores only hurts publishers and developers wallets.

[QUOTE="norfair_dweller"]The problem with some hardcores is that they believe the world revolves around them and, therefore, developers should cater to them and only them.jethrovegas

Your attitude disgusts me.

We created gaming, and we are not some small fringe group; hardcores make up the majority of the sales in the games industry.

Do you think that 4 million casuals went out and purchased Gears of War?

Do you think that 3 million casuals went out and bought Oblivion?

Do you think that 1.7 million casuals went out and bought Dead Rising?

Do you think that of the 18 million people that bought GTA: San Andreas, that the majority were "casuals"?

Hardcores are the lifeblood of gaming.

Do you have proof that casuals do not outnumber hardcore gamers?

Hardcores made this industry what it is. Who the hell do you think buys the most games and software?

This thread is a disgrace to the history of gaming.

jethrovegas

So true, so true man.

So, I suppose that even though "Pacman and Mario were simple", that EVERYONE played them. If I remember, only nerds played video games in the 80s and it was a waste of time and not socially acceptable. You HAD to be hardcore then. Hardcore gamers are the foundation of video games.

Might as well have video games become electronic versions of scrabble while we are at it huh?

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

[QUOTE="norfair_dweller"]The problem with some hardcores is that they believe the world revolves around them and, therefore, developers should cater to them and only them.norfair_dweller

Your attitude disgusts me.

We created gaming, and we are not some small fringe group; hardcores make up the majority of the sales in the games industry.

Do you think that 4 million casuals went out and purchased Gears of War?

Do you think that 3 million casuals went out and bought Oblivion?

Do you think that 1.7 million casuals went out and bought Dead Rising?

Do you think that of the 18 million people that bought GTA: San Andreas, that the majority were "casuals"?

Hardcores are the lifeblood of gaming.

Do you have proof that casuals do not outnumber hardcore gamers?

The proof is in the pudding:

These are the best selling games thus far this generation:

Gears of War: 4 million units.

The Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion: 3 million units.

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess: 4 million units.

Casual my eye.

[QUOTE="Ontain"][QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

Hardcores made this industry what it is. Who the hell do you think buys the most games and software?

JayPee89

casual gamers as a whole buy many more games than hardcores.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6173525.html

still 2%. lets do the math. if they buy 4.5 games a month that's 54 games a year. x2 = 108

if the 98% buy 4 games a year. that's 4x 98 = 392

look who bought the most games by almost 4 -1.

[QUOTE="norfair_dweller"][QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

[QUOTE="norfair_dweller"]The problem with some hardcores is that they believe the world revolves around them and, therefore, developers should cater to them and only them.jethrovegas

Your attitude disgusts me.

We created gaming, and we are not some small fringe group; hardcores make up the majority of the sales in the games industry.

Do you think that 4 million casuals went out and purchased Gears of War?

Do you think that 3 million casuals went out and bought Oblivion?

Do you think that 1.7 million casuals went out and bought Dead Rising?

Do you think that of the 18 million people that bought GTA: San Andreas, that the majority were "casuals"?

Hardcores are the lifeblood of gaming.

Do you have proof that casuals do not outnumber hardcore gamers?

The proof is in the pudding:

These are the best selling games thus far this generation:

Gears of War: 4 million units.

The Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion: 3 million units.

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess: 4 million units.

Casual my eye.

Have you read the posts in this thread that prove that casuals outnumber hardcore gamers?

[QUOTE="norfair_dweller"]The problem with some hardcores is that they believe the world revolves around them and, therefore, developers should cater to them and only them.jethrovegas

Your attitude disgusts me.

We created gaming, and we are not some small fringe group; hardcores make up the majority of the sales in the games industry.

Do you think that 4 million casuals went out and purchased Gears of War?

Do you think that 3 million casuals went out and bought Oblivion?

Do you think that 1.7 million casuals went out and bought Dead Rising?

Do you think that of the 18 million people that bought GTA: San Andreas, that the majority were "casuals"?

Hardcores are the lifeblood of gaming.

errr.... what? Is this a joke thread?Tamarind_Face

I'm pretty sure it is.

I dont want to go back like 3 gens so please keep those minigames and mario where they are id take 360/ps3/pc games instead of them anyday.

Imagine if the only songs that existed were the stuff that was played only on MTV.

That would be such a boring world of music. I wouldn't want gaming to be that way. I dont think anyone here believe casual/non-gamers will kill gaming, just that they'll make hardcore games very rare. It'll kill their gaming preference.

XaosII

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

Hardcores made this industry what it is. Who the hell do you think buys the most games and software?

This thread is a disgrace to the history of gaming.

SemiMaster

So true, so true man.

So, I suppose that even though "Pacman and Mario were simple", that EVERYONE played them. If I remember, only nerds played video games in the 80s and it was a waste of time and not socially acceptable. You HAD to be hardcore then. Hardcore gamers are the foundation of video games.

Might as well have video games become electronic versions of scrabble while we are at it huh?

That stigma is still around today. A lot of people believe that only geeks, nerds, dorks or whatever childlike name you want call gamers play video games.

Hardcore gamers really do fuel the gaming market, there's no denying that. There was an article that was posted on this site not too long ago stating that "Heavy Gamers" (hardcore, 3.8 million of them) are the ones that buy the most games.

Your attitude disgusts me.

We created gaming, and we are not some small fringe group; hardcores make up the majority of the sales in the games industry.

Do you think that 4 million casuals went out and purchased Gears of War?

Do you think that 3 million casuals went out and bought Oblivion?

Do you think that 1.7 million casuals went out and bought Dead Rising?

Do you think that of the 18 million people that bought GTA: San Andreas, that the majority were "casuals"?

Hardcores are the lifeblood of gaming.jethrovegas

Look at last generation. The entire focus of the industry was appealing to the hardcore gamer, and it hurt the industry. We saw several large publishers, with business plans aimed solely at the core gamer, sink into significant debt (Atari, Ubisoft), even having to completely overhaul their business plan (Majesco), or even going out of business (Acclaim). The core gamer may buy a lot of games, but not enough to sustain an entire industry of this size, all aiming to make the next epic blockbuster hit with huge budgets and long development cycles.

And that was last gen. This gen? It's even worse. Development teams need to be larger, development cycles are longer, and the budgets are even bigger. It's even more of a risk to put out a game than ever.

That's why we're seeing a market realignment towards more casual gamers. Yeah, the games might not sell as much, but they're much cheaper and faster to make than core gamer games. Add in the wild success of games like Nintendogs or Brain Age and it's clear there's a significant market there that is just beginning to be tapped.

So stop it with the "Me! Me! Me!" attitude. Do you care about the games non-gamers are buying? No. But get used to the fact that you aren't the only demographic in the market, and stop getting upset that companies aren't pandering to you only.

[QUOTE="jethrovegas"]

[QUOTE="norfair_dweller"]The problem with some hardcores is that they believe the world revolves around them and, therefore, developers should cater to them and only them.thew13

Your attitude disgusts me.

We created gaming, and we are not some small fringe group; hardcores make up the majority of the sales in the games industry.

Do you think that 4 million casuals went out and purchased Gears of War? More than 1/2I would wager

Do you think that 3 million casuals went out and bought Oblivion?not likely

Do you think that 1.7 million casuals went out and bought Dead Rising? The majority possibly

Do you think that of the 18 million people that bought GTA: San Andreas, that the majority were "casuals"? I hope you are joking here, I know people that only playGTA games(and not because they are hardcore) The vast Majority of GTA players are casual.

Hardcores are the lifeblood of gaming.

Imagine if the only songs that existed were the stuff that was played only on MTV.

That would be such a boring world of music. I wouldn't want gaming to be that way. I dont think anyone here believe casual/non-gamers will kill gaming, just that they'll make hardcore games very rare. It'll kill their gaming preference.

XaosII

Amen to that. No crappy music for people with a good taste in music, and no crappy games for hardcore players.

Give us something worth our time. If it is not good, then don't bother.

[QUOTE="XaosII"]

Imagine if the only songs that existed were the stuff that was played only on MTV.

That would be such a boring world of music. I wouldn't want gaming to be that way. I dont think anyone here believe casual/non-gamers will kill gaming, just that they'll make hardcore games very rare. It'll kill their gaming preference.

X_CAPCOM_X

Amen to that. No crappy music for people with a good taste in music, and no crappy games for hardcore players.

Give us something worth our time. If it is not good, then don't bother.

Think about it, we constantly want games to best the best damn things ever. Those games take time, and they are few and far between for developers.

Think back to the 80s where arcade games were coming out like crazy and everyone wanted to play them. That's the same thing that Nintendo is trying to accomplish, they're trying to go back to the days where the most hardcore games were SMB and Pac-Man, yet were easy to pick up and play.

Imagine if only hardcore games were made, we'd have hardly any games and though they'd be good, they would appeal to about 2% of people. If a game sold bad, the developer that madeit would be pretty much screwed. Though there are measures to prevent that now, it'd be pretty much what was going on in 83. Now if you try to make games that appeal to casuals/non-gamers, sure 2% of people won't buy them, but the percent that will will be a hell of a lot higher than 2%, plus those games would be cheaper.

Casuals and non-gamers won't kill gaming, they outnumber the hardcores, with game sales increasing, it's coming clear that casuals and non-gamers are preserving gaming. It's a harsh reality to accept, but the casualization of gaming may just be what can help it. Hardcores like me have become obsolete and needy.

CJL13

I think the opposite is true about the crash in the 80's. There were too many second rate games being made.

That's a good point. Casuals don't even "breathe" games like we do so I doubt they would make up anywhere as near as much of the market as we do. That only applies with super mainstream games like Halo or other ines that everyone and their family plays, lol.

-Genesis