Homefront, only new games get Muliplayer.

[QUOTE="iAtrocious"]

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

If you buy use games, you don't support the developers. It's as simple as that.

Don't waste time making a counter argument, there is none. :)

theuncharted34

Good job at the response; comes to show that you had a single reply to the several different arguments I presented in more than one post. You didn't need to lower yourself just to get a last post, though :).

Funny thing is, PS3 fanboys always express how 360 owners have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome for paying for Live, yet look at what we have here...

there was no need for a long response. The argument was over and done with.

That, is another thing entirely and has nothing to do with the subject matter.

You called the argument over and done with because you couldn't elaborate a cohesive response and counter-argument to it. Quite a difference between an argument being done with and an argument being ignored.

i have no problem with this..developers should get something out of a used game sale.lawlessx

I understand why publishers think stuff liks this is a swell idea, but I don't understand why people agree. They are making money off of used products by forcing people to pay to regain access to removed functionality. Essentially, instead of the seller getting those $10, it'ill go into the publisher's pocket. What's fair about that? The manufacturer has f*** all to do with that transaction. They have been paid for the game already.

With that said, THQ has made their online pass less s***ty with Homefront. Unlike the thread title says, they don't force you to pay to play multiplayer like they did with UFC, you only need to pay if you want to go past level 5/70.

But all in all (exclusive DLC BS) this game is sounding quite unappealing on the business side of things. Unless it's truly amazing on the game side, I think I'll have to pass until the price has dropped considerably. Hopefully there'll still be people playing it or I won't buy it at all. Shame. Kaos will probably go under if this doesn't do alright.

Funny thing is, PS3 fanboys always express how 360 owners have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome for paying for Live, yet look at what we have here...

iAtrocious

[QUOTE="iAtrocious"]

Funny thing is, PS3 fanboys always express how 360 owners have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome for paying for Live, yet look at what we have here...

thom_maytees

Straying off topic, but ok :lol:

Stockholm Syndrome, iirc, is a psychological condition where the person who's affected by it considers his malefactor as innocent of his incorrect actions, going as far as protecting or preventing him from being harmed. You really should look it up on Wikipedia, though -- the article there's probably more reliable than me.

[QUOTE="dotWithShoes"][QUOTE="lawlessx"]i have no problem with this..developers should get something out of a used game sale.Wasdie

Because it's their software?

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

[QUOTE="iAtrocious"]

Good job at the response; comes to show that you had a single reply to the several different arguments I presented in more than one post. You didn't need to lower yourself just to get a last post, though :).

Funny thing is, PS3 fanboys always express how 360 owners have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome for paying for Live, yet look at what we have here...

iAtrocious

there was no need for a long response. The argument was over and done with.

That, is another thing entirely and has nothing to do with the subject matter.

You called the argument over and done with because you couldn't elaborate a cohesive response and counter-argument to it. Quite a difference between an argument being done with and an argument being ignored.

but, your argument was entirely situational. You gave no examples of what games you bought used, what games had pre - launch dlc, (and again, they probably were just quick cash in games with low standards) when this is the case, it doesn't matter because I won't buy a game from a cruddy developer, they'll get enough money anyways if it's a cash in like madden or call of duty, or these big name wrpg's with extensive dlc.

and $60.00 for a game is completely reasonable considering how much it takes to make a game these days. Alot of these developers need to sell a million copies just to break even these days.

And yes, if you buy a quality game used, you are not supporting the developers, and you do not support the finer ends of the industry, nor do you care.

Don't worry, you'll get the last word in kanye west.

EDIT: and btw, ignoring a baseless argument is the same thing as it being over.

[QUOTE="babyeatermax"]This is just ripping people off. Let the slippery slop begin.theuncharted34

how is that fair? you're ripping the developer's off when you buy a used game.

Used games sales are almost as bad as piracy if you ask me.

Hahahaha. No.

[QUOTE="babyeatermax"]This is just ripping people off. Let the slippery slop begin.theuncharted34

how is that fair? you're ripping the developer's off when you buy a used game.

Used games sales are almost as bad as piracy if you ask me.

but, your argument was entirely situational. You gave no examples of what games you bought used, what games had pre - launch dlc, (and again, they probably were just quick cash in games with low standards) when this is the case, it doesn't matter because I won't buy a game from a cruddy developer, they'll get enough money anyways if it's a cash in like madden or call of duty, or these big name wrpg's with extensive dlc.

and $60.00 for a game is completely reasonable considering how much it takes to make a game these days. Alot of these developers need to sell a million copies just to break even these days.

And yes, if you buy a quality game used, you are not supporting the developers, and you do not support the finer ends of the industry, nor do you care.

Don't worry, you'll get the last word in kanye west.

EDIT: and btw, ignoring a baseless argument is the same thing as it being over.

theuncharted34

[QUOTE="iAtrocious"]

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

there was no need for a long response. The argument was over and done with.

That, is another thing entirely and has nothing to do with the subject matter.

theuncharted34

You called the argument over and done with because you couldn't elaborate a cohesive response and counter-argument to it. Quite a difference between an argument being done with and an argument being ignored.

but, your argument was entirely situational. You gave no examples of what games you bought used, what games had pre - launch dlc, (and again, they probably were just quick cash in games with low standards) when this is the case, it doesn't matter because I won't buy a game from a cruddy developer, they'll get enough money anyways if it's a cash in like madden or call of duty, or these big name wrpg's with extensive dlc.

and $60.00 for a game is completely reasonable considering how much it takes to make a game these days. Alot of these developers need to sell a million copies just to break even these days.

And yes, if you buy a quality game used, you are not supporting the developers, and you do not support the finer ends of the industry, nor do you care.

Don't worry, you'll get the last word in kanye west.

EDIT: and btw, ignoring a baseless argument is the same thing as it being over.

Why, what, even? The games I bought used were Oblivion IV GoTY edition, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. I got as gifts Fallout 3 and FarCry 2, both used as well.

I've already given you enough reasons to point out why I wouldn't buy new when I have the option to buy used, and I'll cite them here, adding some new ones:

- The revenue from the sale of a game doesn't go to the developers or the staff -- they have a salary, and get paid to make a game, regardless of its sales. The publishers get the money -- the publishers, who do nothing but advertise the game in the hopes that it sells in enough quantity to fill their pockets.

- I've no debt to the publishers, OR the developing team. I enjoy their product, sure -- but I pay for it. And they make their share, regardless of used game sales or not.

- Several other industries, such as cinema, books and hardware suffer from second-hand sales, but you sure as heck don't see them whining about it as much as game publishers do.

- A game's inserted in a market. If its prices are too high to compete with a well conserved copy, it's their own fault for selling at that price tag. And even if it weren't, this is free competition.

- What twisted view do you have to believe that, when I have my job, and they have theirs, I should sacrifice my income to promote their welfare -- at NO GAIN OF MY OWN.

I'm sure I covered a few more on previous posts, as have other users, but this is a moot point. I contribute to the gaming industry, a lot -- Brazil has a majority of jailbreaked consoles and pirate games, that sell releases at US$5,00, if you don't want to download them. But no, I insist on remaining legal, and paying US$125,00 on a game (it is the least I can do) -- so, yes, I'll save a couple dozen dollars when possible. And even if I lived in the U.S., or wherever, I'd buy used games.

Don't bother replying; not if you intend me to see it. I'm off.

it would always equal out anyways,

more ppl will buy new games, and as a result, the used games will become considerably cheaper becuz of the high supply, possibly as much as 10 bucks cheaper.

It's funny how everyone here has undying loyalty to a developer (in general) who really only cares about their bottom line and who is capable & maybe even willing to exploit them as soon as it means extra cash lining their pockets. How naive.

Anyway, whenever a game is purchased, the developer and publisher get their cut of the money. After that property is purchased and after they have gotten their cut of the profit for the product that THEY determined the price of, that should be it. Anything else is double dipping.

What's next? I am going to buy an old couch from my friend, but wait! You have to pay the original manufacturer an extra $20 dollars, because you didn't buy it new and, umm, they deserve it :roll:

Seriously people...

Why, what, even? The games I bought used were Oblivion IV GoTY edition, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. I got as gifts Fallout 3 and FarCry 2, both used as well.

I've already given you enough reasons to point out why I wouldn't buy new when I have the option to buy used, and I'll cite them here, adding some new ones:

- The revenue from the sale of a game doesn't go to the developers or the staff -- they have a salary, and get paid to make a game, regardless of its sales. The publishers get the money -- the publishers, who do nothing but advertise the game in the hopes that it sells in enough quantity to fill their pockets.

- I've no debt to the publishers, OR the developing team. I enjoy their product, sure -- but I pay for it. And they make their share, regardless of used game sales or not.

- Several other industries, such as cinema, books and hardware suffer from second-hand sales, but you sure as heck don't see them whining about it as much as game publishers do.

- A game's inserted in a market. If its prices are too high to compete with a well conserved copy, it's their own fault for selling at that price tag. And even if it weren't, this is free competition.

- What twisted view do you have to believe that, when I have my job, and they have theirs, I should sacrifice my income to promote their welfare -- at NO GAIN OF MY OWN.

I'm sure I covered a few more on previous posts, as have other users, but this is a moot point. I contribute to the gaming industry, a lot -- Brazil has a majority of jailbreaked consoles and pirate games, that sell releases at US$5,00, if you don't want to download them. But no, I insist on remaining legal, and paying US$125,00 on a game (it is the least I can do) -- so, yes, I'll save a couple dozen dollars when possible. And even if I lived in the U.S., or wherever, I'd buy used games.

Don't bother replying; not if you intend me to see it. I'm off.

iAtrocious

Other mediums don't have to deal with costs associated with running an online service though. Something which is likely to see an increase in use with a new user. Granted this only applies to the publishers that actually do run their own service. Or dedicated servers I guess.

And I don't think there are chains of stores making big profits off of the used market the way Gamestop does. The real culprit in this ordeal as far as I'm concerned. It's tragicomical that publishers have to suck up to them. And extraordinarily dumb of people to trade in their games.

There are some cirumstances that makes an online pass less bad than it should be. But I'm still not ok with it.

And it's like...Homefront has this, other multiplayer shooters don't. Is this a good idea for a new IP launching into a competitive market?

Another reason not to buy it, i can understand maybe a known game have a pass. But a brand new game, limiting your mp audience to just the people who buy it new pretty much is silly. I would worry about gaining a fanbase, before trying to take all of their money, if it doesn't sell your not making a second game.

Only reason they are whining is becuase games sales dropped becuase of the ecomny tanking. They are just driving the idustury into the ground even more

Another reason not to buy it, i can understand maybe a known game have a pass. But a brand new game, limiting your mp audience to just the people who buy it new pretty much is silly. I would worry about gaining a fanbase, before trying to take all of their money, if it doesn't sell your not making a second game.

Only reason they are whining is becuase games sales dropped becuase of the ecomny tanking.

James161324

[QUOTE="babyeatermax"]This is just ripping people off. Let the slippery slop begin.theuncharted34

how is that fair? you're ripping the developer's off when you buy a used game.

Used games sales are almost as bad as piracy if you ask me.

:lol: funny stuff.

where are all the movie studios complaining about used dvds and blurays? or the car manufacturers? i mean, these things cost millions of dollars to make. why aren't they crying?

also, have you ever bought anything used?

Don't see what the big deal is. Can't stand having to pay 10 bucks for a copy of a game you bought used so you can save 5 bucks? Then wait until sales or holidays where it goes 20-30 bucks. Doubt even 70% of the people complaining would even be playing the MP for longer than a week.

Understandable.

Online infrastructure cost time and money(especially good ones). Devs should get something from you if want to use said service.

It would be hilarious if CoD or some other big game did something like this. :lol:

More fanbois embracing corp greed. Once a game is paid for once it should be free of restrictions no matter who they sell it to or what they do with it. I wonder if you could do a class action suit on this.judahstarguy

I agree, BUT since you're using the services of the company still you don't get the benefits. If someone registers a product with a warrenty then sells it to someone else, that person doesn't get coverage and must pay a fine to get any service help. I'm betting these costs are going towards server upseek. A studio like Kaos knows the importance of dedicated servers.

Understandable.

Online infrastructure cost time and money(especially good ones). Devs should get something from you if want to use said service.

dercoo

To the developer, used game sales aren't much different than piracy. SAGE_OF_FIRE

fine with me

this is a good drm for consoles

just like removing lan is good drm for PC

anything else is just overboard, im looking at you ubisoft

I am the only one who thinks that if this was an Activision game that this would be getting dissed to hell here on SW?

MobilechicaneX

I'm Proud of this thread for not degenerating into a gamestop hate thread. Also, the only real way to support the Devs is Pre-ordering. Why? Because companies like gamestop and best buy order the number of units to buy based off pre-orders, you dont support them buy getting new copies. Also, When you spend your 59.99 on whatever game, the Devs see exactly ZERO dollars of that. Devs are paid by the publisher and the publisher has allready gotten their money from gamestop/bestbuy/target when said companies purchased however many units of game X from them (if you were able to get a game at cost, they are really about 25-30 dollars) the publisher only see's a very very very insignificantly small amount of money from actual sales to consumers. Personally, i never buy used, but not because of some white knight concept of supporting these guys who get paid no matter how few thousand or multi- millions of copies sell. I have OCD; Besides, when you get down to brass tacks, you can buy pretty much ANYTHING, second hand, but the only group crying about losing money is the game industry. To me, thats just plain greedy. jigglebilly1983

Other than that I agree with the rest of your post. I typically buy new for a couple reasons. 1) I hate the idea of someone else I don't know handling a game I will eventually buy. Who knows what transferred from his/her hand to the disk. Secondly, I also do things in my life based on how I would want to be treated if I were in the other shoes. Kind of a karma thing, so I am also trying to be selfless and be concerned with others. It really is sad that the majority of humanity is all about themselves and how to take advantage of other people to meet their own selfish needs.

It makes a lot of sense they would do this. Especially since used games hurt the industry.

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

[QUOTE="dotWithShoes"] Why should a dev get money twice for ONE copy of a game?Captain__Tripps

Because it's their software?

Used games do hurt the developers, I don't blame them for taking these measures.

Wasdie

[QUOTE="Captain__Tripps"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Because it's their software?

dotWithShoes

Let's say you own a hammer store that sells hammers for $10. I go in and buy a hammer for $10. A month later I go back to your store and another customer brings one of your hammers to check out and is about to hand you over $10. Instead, I tell that customer that I am not using the hammer I bought a month earlier and they could just buy mine for $7.

Don't know why you are a hammer salesmen, but that was the only thing I could think of. But if you were in this situation wouldn't you be feeling a little cheated out of that $10 sale? That is what a store like Gamestop does. A customer brings up a $60 game and the employee takes it out of their hands and hands them a $55 game and convinces them to buy that instead.

Publisher/Developers don't have problems with people putting their games on Ebay, or selling to a friend, or on craigslist, etc because the people buying those games were actively searching for used games. They have a problem with Gamestops that have customers actively looking for a new copy of a game and leaving with a pre owned copy.

EA do this ... Works fine usually.

Could be better, like i'd like to be able to lend a friend FIFA and him be able to play online. Are the keys transferable?

EA do this ... Works fine usually.

Could be better, like i'd like to be able to lend a friend FIFA and him be able to play online. Are the keys transferable?

-Snooze-

What happend to yo sig!?

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

EA do this ... Works fine usually.

Could be better, like i'd like to be able to lend a friend FIFA and him be able to play online. Are the keys transferable?

Master_ShakeXXX

What happend to yo sig!?

No idea ... This has happened twice now. I'll put it back on later.

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

EA do this ... Works fine usually.

Could be better, like i'd like to be able to lend a friend FIFA and him be able to play online. Are the keys transferable?

-Snooze-

What happend to yo sig!?

No idea ... This has happened twice now. I'll put it back on later.

You sure the mods aint removing it? They can be pretty strict about stuff like that from time to time.

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

EA do this ... Works fine usually.

Could be better, like i'd like to be able to lend a friend FIFA and him be able to play online. Are the keys transferable?

-Snooze-

What happend to yo sig!?

No idea ... This has happened twice now. I'll put it back on later.

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

What happend to yo sig!?

Master_ShakeXXX

No idea ... This has happened twice now. I'll put it back on later.

You sure the mods aint removing it? They can be pretty strict about stuff like that from time to time.

Surely they'd have the courtesy to message me regarding the issue. How else would I know not to stick it back up?

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

No idea ... This has happened twice now. I'll put it back on later.

-Snooze-

You sure the mods aint removing it? They can be pretty strict about stuff like that from time to time.

Surely they'd have the courtesy to message me regarding the issue. How else would I know not to stick it back up?

True, true. I once had this avatar of an animated girl jumping up and down all happy, and they removed it. I was like W...T...F.No telling why mods do what they do I tell ya.

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

[QUOTE="-Snooze-"]

No idea ... This has happened twice now. I'll put it back on later.

-Snooze-

You sure the mods aint removing it? They can be pretty strict about stuff like that from time to time.

Surely they'd have the courtesy to message me regarding the issue. How else would I know not to stick it back up?

It does make sense for THQ, but will probably end up with the MP being dead quicker.tehsystemwarior

Am I the only one who sees this as a good thing? I mean some people truly dont care about online. They can discount the code 2$ and sell it on ebay if they're never going to use it. A picture of this would be silver users.

Also... why does this even work in LIVE considering the online aspect of the game is supposedly hosted by Microsoft with your funds?

This is just ripping people off. Let the slippery slop begin.babyeatermax

not really from a buisness standpoint.

FYI companies dont make any cash out of used game nor does the console licenser unlike new games.Surprised that console gaming hasnt switched to a more PC like system with CD keys for acessing multiplayer portionsand all that jazz this gen with the more widespread adoption of online.

Well considering the recent trend of games (Bioware's dlc system) its not at all surprising. Looks like consoles are starting to get their DRM equivalent.

Publishers shouldn't get anything from a used game sale. They got their money on the original sale. I can however understand them wanting to charge you for using the online portion when you buy used (in this one specific case), but in general, I would say what they're wanting is wrong. And no matter how the developers see it, buying used is in no shape or form anything like piracy. The very idea is absurb. Buying used is not the same as stealing.

I'm Proud of this thread for not degenerating into a gamestop hate thread. Also, the only real way to support the Devs is Pre-ordering. Why? Because companies like gamestop and best buy order the number of units to buy based off pre-orders, you dont support them buy getting new copies. Also, When you spend your 59.99 on whatever game, the Devs see exactly ZERO dollars of that. Devs are paid by the publisher and the publisher has allready gotten their money from gamestop/bestbuy/target when said companies purchased however many units of game X from them (if you were able to get a game at cost, they are really about 25-30 dollars) the publisher only see's a very very very insignificantly small amount of money from actual sales to consumers. Personally, i never buy used, but not because of some white knight concept of supporting these guys who get paid no matter how few thousand or multi- millions of copies sell. I have OCD; Besides, when you get down to brass tacks, you can buy pretty much ANYTHING, second hand, but the only group crying about losing money is the game industry. To me, thats just plain greedy. jigglebilly1983

Quoting for great justice!!!

Some people still don't get it.

I can however understand them wanting to charge you for using the online portion when you buy used (in this one specific case)

LovePotionNo9

Even then it doesn't make sense because multiplayer access is tied to possession of the game. Even if a single used copy were to have 100+ owners there could only ever be one person online at any one time.

[QUOTE="theuncharted34"]

[QUOTE="iAtrocious"]

Yes, I do, though I don't see the pertinence of that, here.

I support the developers -- I'm not going to, however,pay double the price just to have a game come with a pretty seal on it. And, as far as I know, no developing teams have actually lost more than they've gained from used game sales. They're still doing pretty dandy.

iAtrocious

I don't think the opportunity to save half the cost of a new game is ever present if you know where to look.

I just think you should support the gaming industry if you really enjoy it so much, but whatever.

My collection of 27 retail games has four copies that I bought used -- and I regret not saving more by buying other used games. Point is, I support them, but they don't have support me: their games come with pre-launch DLC, usually over-charged and with a lack of content, and they charge a whopping US$60,00 for games at launch -- with taxes, import fees and whatnot, that becomes a little over US$120,00 here. Now, you want to ask me to "support" developers by paying these absurd prices? Please.

I don't owe them anything. They make games to make money. I buy their games for the smallest cost to save my money. It's a fair trade, and it's a game we both play.