How did Bioware go so wrong?

[QUOTE="Game-fu"]

Sad thing is: I thought this was a thread about SWTOR. You can see EA's heavy-handed "casual" influence and financial corner-cutting in that game, too. Pathetic.

edidili

I don't think I'd agree with the financial corner-cutting part when it comes to sw tor. Doesn't that game have the biggest budget in the gaming industry?

That's what they say, but if so: it all went into the voice acting. I guess I just look at the inexplicable limitations with crafting, exploring, space travel, etc. and can only pin-point one reason: money. Whether it is due to the lack thereof or just getting the game out before the end of the quarter; this seems like the the only explanation EA really cares about.

This some up everything perfectly. It's just a hate bandwagon, and everyone is hopping on because it's "cool" to hate on it.AcidSoldner

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Really 95% of whats wrong with DAII is THAT IT WAS RUSHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just like beloved RPG companies such as Troika, Black Isle, and Obsidian....and even Bethesda. And really Bioware has already learned from that mistake, in which they delayed ME3. However, the rest of the problems with DAII are the fans that cannot follow an unorthodox storyline, can't accept that this is not a heroic tale which the player has control of everything, and favor broken and unbalanced RPG systems JUST BECAUSE they are RPG systems. And really the leveling system of DAII is far superior to DAO's and the only real "dumbed down" thing about the RPG systems in DAII is the crafting system. DAO's was bloated however.DarkLink77

I could follow the story fine. It just sucked. As did the level design, most of the characters (with the exception of Varric, and don't bother trying to change my mind, because you aren't going to). I wanted a more balanced game. I wanted a character study. I wanted a frame narrative. I thought all the ideas behind the game were really cool.

But the execution was absolute sh*t. The design was either crap because it was rushed, or because they were trying to dumb the game down. Dragon Age II is an awful game. You can make all of the excuses you like for it, but there's a reason to many people hate it, and it's not because we were too stupid to understand the story.

[QUOTE="AcidSoldner"]This some up everything perfectly. It's just a hate bandwagon, and everyone is hopping on because it's "cool" to hate on it.foxhound_fox

I wasn't aware Bioware did 'go so wrong'. I'm enjoying their titles and have done for a long time.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="musalala"]

LOL you do know that ME3 was delayed to put multi-player right, if anything its going to be a traight up Gears of war clone but lacking the all the essential components of soild MP that are found in modern shooters, why would someone waste their time with ME3"s multiplayer when they can play COD or Battlefeild.

I wish Like Batman AC and Skyrim, Bioware would just stick to making an amazing single player experience and the rest will take care of itself.

Also The reasonwhy DA II sucked was not only that it was rushed but that it was just s***t all around, form the twilight wanna be romances, the p**s poor writing and dialogue, the dumbed down combat, the out dated graphics and yes lest we forget "Teh presS a Butt5on and Teh Awesome happens."

musalala

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/05/04/mass-effect-3-delayed-to-adjust-mechanics-for-larger-market-opp/

Then soon after they announced Multiplayer.

If you deny this, you are in serieos denial. The game that is mass effect 3 is going to b a straight up gears of war clone, a shooter

The witcher 2 and dragon age origins may be flawed games but they are still better games than the abomination known as DA2. On every measurable and objective indicator they are better games,

Critical Reception

Fan Reception

Sales

Dragon Age 2is s***t whether you want to admit this or not...its s***t

Bioware admited it

EA admited it

The Critics agree

The fans agree

Defending it only shows how big of a Fanboy you are.

I like how EA is to blame whereas it was BIOWARE's choice to go to them, thier choice to want to appeal to a mass more people. DA2 was far from terrible. But then DA 1 was **** compared to NWN 1-2 ... so can we please stop pretending dragon-age is good just because it has modern graphics? it was a lazy pile of crap from the start... BG successor my ass.

I like how EA is to blame whereas it was BIOWARE's choice to go to them, thier choice to want to appeal to a mass more people. DA2 was far from terrible. But then DA 1 was **** compared to NWN 1-2 ... so can we please stop pretending dragon-age is good just because it has modern graphics? it was a lazy pile of crap from the start... BG successor my ass.

PC360Wii

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]Really 95% of whats wrong with DAII is THAT IT WAS RUSHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just like beloved RPG companies such as Troika, Black Isle, and Obsidian....and even Bethesda. And really Bioware has already learned from that mistake, in which they delayed ME3. However, the rest of the problems with DAII are the fans that cannot follow an unorthodox storyline, can't accept that this is not a heroic tale which the player has control of everything, and favor broken and unbalanced RPG systems JUST BECAUSE they are RPG systems. And really the leveling system of DAII is far superior to DAO's and the only real "dumbed down" thing about the RPG systems in DAII is the crafting system. DAO's was bloated however.dreman999

I could follow the story fine. It just sucked. As did the level design, most of the characters (with the exception of Varric, and don't bother trying to change my mind, because you aren't going to). I wanted a more balanced game. I wanted a character study. I wanted a frame narrative. I thought all the ideas behind the game were really cool.

But the execution was absolute sh*t. The design was either crap because it was rushed, or because they were trying to dumb the game down. Dragon Age II is an awful game. You can make all of the excuses you like for it, but there's a reason to many people hate it, and it's not because we were too stupid to understand the story.

They didn't go wrong. I really, REALLY enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins. I mean, rarely do I get so sucked into a game's world and become so immersed into for hours and hours on end. DAO was memorable. A classic. A true gem and master of its genre. But like I said, BioWare did not go wrong. EA I'm sure has a force choke hold BioWare to some degree. It's also the market of evolving gamers. Not necessarily evolving into interesting, good gamers. More catered to the pick-me-up-action games that we know and see today.Lots of complaints flew BioWare's way about DAO's slow and unsatisfying combat, which I disagree and agree to an extent. DA2's faster and visceral combat was satisfying for me and it felt fluid. But at the same time, it's like BioWare forgot what the core gameplay was about by choosing to go this route. The story had potential, but it was smoke-screened by flat and disassociated characters that failed to breathe life into the game (except Varic, he was actually an interesting character, also funny as hell). I did appreciate the mage vs templars conflict to it. It was almost like reading a Dragon Age book. Take the good with the bad. Pros and cons, and in DA2's case, the game wasn't terrible, or even slightly bad. It just didn't live up to YOUR expectations of what the game should be. Still a good, solid, Dragon Age game at the end of the day. I enjoyed my 45 hours of gameplay of DA2. No regrets. Now, moving along, we have Star Wars The Old Republic MMORPG. I have participated and played in two stress test beta weekends. The game is simply amazing. It's better than I expected, and I'm not even a huge Star Wars fan. All the doubts I had, from stiff animations, boring gameplay, lack of difficulty, even visuals, were washed away. The story part is actually worth investing your time into. Some of the neutral/grey-area choices you could make are very dynamic. Playing as either dark or light are excellent. A nice touch to an MMORPG. BioWare, I would say, is declining if you really want to sit and compare old to new games. Mass Effect 1 is better than Mass Effect 2. DAO is better than DA2. Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic is better than them all. And if you want to go back even further, Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. Simply amazing games. As for upcoming games, Mass Effect 3, I'm a skeptic. I don't think it will be that good. But then again, ME series is no longer my concern after they gave me the disappointment ME2. Although they are making it up to me with The Old Republic. So yes, they are declining but I think they could get that groove back. Maybe if EA took their sticky hands out of their creative freedom more, it would be a good start. Somehow I doubt it. At one point or another, a developer's gotta say, enough is enough and they need to start making games they're passionate about. Not games that make them money, only.Elann2008

Two things I'm still trying to figure out about the haters... 1. Why did they buy the game if they hated it (you got a ton of advance warning about the content before release). 2. How can you hate it if you never bought and played it?:lol::lol:topsemag55

1. i ahd it preordered, it was the sequel to an amazing rpg, i mean i would play it after dragon age origins, which is basically what bioware did, cash in dragon age origins success even more with the sequel, make one decent game, make twice the money

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] That's a load of sh*t.

I could follow the story fine. It just sucked. As did the level design, most of the characters (with the exception of Varric, and don't bother trying to change my mind, because you aren't going to). I wanted a more balanced game. I wanted a character study. I wanted a frame narrative. I thought all the ideas behind the game were really cool.

But the execution was absolute sh*t. The design was either crap because it was rushed, or because they were trying to dumb the game down. Dragon Age II is an awful game. You can make all of the excuses you like for it, but there's a reason to many people hate it, and it's not because we were too stupid to understand the story.

texasgoldrush

no they weren't, characters in dragon age 2 were horrible, they tried so hard to make them different they overdid it and badly.

btw you crap about the story being too complicated for us commoners to understand it in alol its majesty its lol.

After playing Skyrim for all weekend, I decided to slightly mix things up a little earlier today by pulling out my copy of Dragon Age: Origins.

Now, I don't know if you've actually played Dragon Age: Origins. The problem with the game is that it gets a stigma attached to it simply because of Dragon Age II, that bastardized excuse for a game that is supposed to be its sequel, and because Bioware made it, who seem to have no f***ing clue these days.

But the thing with Origins is, it is great. Fantastic. It is arguably Bioware's last great game, and definitely the last great RPG they developed. It stands as a masterpiece in its genre, and is one of the deepest, most complex RPGs developed in the last decade and a half, and it is indisputably Bioware's best work since Baldur's Gate 2. It also stands as one of the greatest RPGs ever developed.

The story may have been nothing special, and the overall setting may have been highly derivative, but the overall atmosphere was brilliant, the quest structure is probably second to none, the music was wonderful, the characterization was great, the dialog was tightly written, the combat and gameplay mechanics were great, and overall, it was probably the last bastion of the true old complex RPG that made no bones about what it was, and did not even attempt to streamline any of its components for the mass audience (Skyrim, great game though it is, does streamline its elements heavily to keep them accessible. I have no issues with this, as unlike other games, streamlining here does not mean that said elements are compromised)

My question is, how did Bioware go from making a game as good as this, a game that borders on being an all time masterpiece, to the worthless piece of s**t that was Dragon Age II? How did they go so wrong? Where did they go so wrong?

And considering their increased (misguided) push towards moving away from the traditional RPG market, is there really no chance that I can see a true sequel to Dragon Age Origins, a game that proudly upholds the tradition of the old WRPG that Origins so proudly tried to usher into the 21st century?

charizard1605

DA 2 was a step back. The only thing I can say about it is that the gameplay is better. I like actually doing the actions. But thats not to say DA: Origins had a bad combat system because i liked that combat system too, just DA 2's better.

DA 2 had the same dungeons (copy and paste dungeons everywhere..... straight up pure laziness on their behalf), the facial hair looks stupid in character creation (looks like fake glue on facial hair), the story was pathetic, it was more linear, side quests were bland. It was just a cash in for them. They sold out.

and how was it "overdone"? It wasn't. DAII's characterization was a natural progression from Awakenings, from caracitures like Oghren and Zervan to more human like characters like Nathaniel Howe and Sigrun. DAII is a step further.texasgoldrush

c'mon they overdid it, isabella was like she had all the STD in the world, merril was beyond brain damaged, anders too damn whiney, he was a victim of everything, and the others, juyst mediocre

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]

After playing Skyrim for all weekend, I decided to slightly mix things up a little earlier today by pulling out my copy of Dragon Age: Origins.

Now, I don't know if you've actually played Dragon Age: Origins. The problem with the game is that it gets a stigma attached to it simply because of Dragon Age II, that bastardized excuse for a game that is supposed to be its sequel, and because Bioware made it, who seem to have no f***ing clue these days.

But the thing with Origins is, it is great. Fantastic. It is arguably Bioware's last great game, and definitely the last great RPG they developed. It stands as a masterpiece in its genre, and is one of the deepest, most complex RPGs developed in the last decade and a half, and it is indisputably Bioware's best work since Baldur's Gate 2. It also stands as one of the greatest RPGs ever developed.

The story may have been nothing special, and the overall setting may have been highly derivative, but the overall atmosphere was brilliant, the quest structure is probably second to none, the music was wonderful, the characterization was great, the dialog was tightly written, the combat and gameplay mechanics were great, and overall, it was probably the last bastion of the true old complex RPG that made no bones about what it was, and did not even attempt to streamline any of its components for the mass audience (Skyrim, great game though it is, does streamline its elements heavily to keep them accessible. I have no issues with this, as unlike other games, streamlining here does not mean that said elements are compromised)

My question is, how did Bioware go from making a game as good as this, a game that borders on being an all time masterpiece, to the worthless piece of s**t that was Dragon Age II? How did they go so wrong? Where did they go so wrong?

And considering their increased (misguided) push towards moving away from the traditional RPG market, is there really no chance that I can see a true sequel to Dragon Age Origins, a game that proudly upholds the tradition of the old WRPG that Origins so proudly tried to usher into the 21st century?

ristactionjakso

DA 2 was a step back. The only thing I can say about it is that the gameplay is better. I like actually doing the actions. But thats not to say DA: Origins had a bad combat system because i liked that combat system too, just DA 2's better.

DA 2 had the same dungeons (copy and paste dungeons everywhere..... straight up pure laziness on their behalf), the facial hair looks stupid in character creation (looks like fake glue on facial hair), the story was pathetic, it was more linear, side quests were bland. It was just a cash in for them. They sold out.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]and how was it "overdone"? It wasn't. DAII's characterization was a natural progression from Awakenings, from caracitures like Oghren and Zervan to more human like characters like Nathaniel Howe and Sigrun. DAII is a step further.Krelian-co

c'mon they overdid it, isabella was like she had all the STD in the world, merril was beyond brain damaged, anders too damn whiney, he was a victim of everything, and the others, juyst mediocre

In my opinion, they're still the best there is.

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] And where you get that info? Bioware said that they needed more time to be put into the game. IN FACT, when the first draft of the script leaked, they mentioned that they have not even finished putting the story in yet, but before the delay, it was supposed to be released last month. And what makes you think they won't have a great single player experience? So a game like DAO didn't have outdated graphics and twilight wannabe romances, or dumb combat (in which you can exploit a combo of overpowered skills in which Bioware never even bothered to balance). I love how you can Mana Clash a mage in DAO and he dies instantly or how one of Leliana's attacks does way more damage than even the most powerful warrior attacks. The game was stupidly unbalanced. I rather take a more balanced press a button for awesome game than a broken unbalanced RPG with fake depth because some builds just suck while others break the game. And really The Witcher 2 is press a button for awesome, far more than DAII. Hell Press X to instantly kill three enemies. Very easy late game. And really, all the inconsistant writing moments in the game actually come from the parts they cut out, such as characters not recoginizing a mage (because originally a mage wasn't supposed to do that quest or part). And most of the dialogue is excellent, far better than Skyrims, a lot better than most of Deus Ex HRs, and even the Witcher 2 doesn't quite compare to the character relationships of DAII.texasgoldrush

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/05/04/mass-effect-3-delayed-to-adjust-mechanics-for-larger-market-opp/

Then soon after they announced Multiplayer.

If you deny this, you are in serieos denial. The game that is mass effect 3 is going to b a straight up gears of war clone, a shooter

The witcher 2 and dragon age origins may be flawed games but they are still better games than the abomination known as DA2. On every measurable and objective indicator they are better games,

Critical Reception

Fan Reception

Sales

Dragon Age 2is s***t whether you want to admit this or not...its s***t

Bioware admited it

EA admited it

The Critics agree

The fans agree

Defending it only shows how big of a Fanboy you are.

LOL and you want to believe a company that made the exact same BS promises with DA2..Yes lets all get shafted again as we did with DA2

And again you are side stepping my arguement, there is no way that DA2 can be considered a success when it performed badly when compared to the original. A sequel of an established franchise that barely sold a third of its original game that scored significantly lower than the original that was flat out rejected by the fan base, again only the biggest fan boy would pretend that it was a success let alone that its BETTER. EA expected to sell 4.5 million units of DA 2

http://www.huliq.com/10177/huliq-projects-dragon-age-2-sales-figures-will-exceed-45-million

And it barely sold over 1.5 million ( it shipped 2 million) , the sales were so F****** bad they resorted to trying to entice customers by giving away ME 2 for free? Yes absolutly DA 2 was an earth shattering success.

And WTF do you want them to say to openly say our game is complete s*** we know we f**** up of course they will sugar coat it and say things like didn't meet expectations..and the "fanbase was dissapointed" thats translates to "yeah its crap"

Did you read the qoute from the CEO of EA they want to appeal to a "wider market" you honestly believe that means bringing deeper RPG mechanics or the exact opposite? ME 1 to ME2 we got a stripped down RPG what do you think this means for mass effect 3 if the want a "wider market?" If you want to live in your little delusion where making a game appeal to a wider market means adding "deeper" RPG mechanics then be my guest.

ME 3 is basically going to be like Crysis 2, Crysis 2 is a straight fps with very light RPG mechanics, you can customise you weapon and suit powers and thats it . ME 3 is basically this a shooter with very light rpg elements.

Dude Bioware hasn't been the same since their EA overlords took over.

How did they go wrong? They chose to go wrong. Simple as that. Instead of making a bigger better version of DA:Origins, they decided to "streamline"(dumbdown/consolize/etc) the game to something simpler and easier to pick up and play. They forgot that what made Origins great in the first place and replaced it with what they though would make the most $$$. DA2 wasn't a bad game, just like with FFXIII it was just pretty damn dissapointing: how the hell did they go backwards and not forward in quality/quantity/choices/gameplay/variety/etc? That's where the bad rep came from.

Mass Effect 2 is gears of war level bad. I can't take that game seriously with the writing and gameplay. I thought it was one of the dumbest games I've ever played.

nhh18

Mass Effect 2 is gears of war level bad. I can't take that game seriously with the writing and gameplay. I thought it was one of the dumbest games I've ever played.

nhh18

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]

The story may have been nothing special, and the overall setting may have been highly derivative, but the overall atmosphere was brilliant, the quest structure is probably second to none, the music was wonderful, the characterization was great, the dialog was tightly written, the combat and gameplay mechanics were great, and overall, it was probably the last bastion of the true old complex RPG that made no bones about what it was

StealthSting

The atmosphere was far from brilliant at times. The quest structure and the progression of the game was just as derivative as the setting. I mean come on, I finished the Magi story and just by the structure of the game 'til that moment I knew what else was there in store for me. Let me guess: I'll be visiting the Elfs next, where I'll be doing a lot of boring chores for them, and at some point, I'll have to be doing the exact same thing in a Dwarf City--ohh, lo and behold, unfortunately I was right.

The game was predictable. The level design was horrible at times. The cities and the world felt lifeless. I will agree that I did enjoy the characters, the writing was good, and there was quite a few music tracks that I enjoyed. The combat was also good imo--even if a lot of people disagree--at least it was much better than Kotor or Jade Empire.

But really, I could write an essay on the problems that I found in the game. Now I haven't touched Dragon Age 2 because of my experience with the first, but really, when I see people complaining about something like the level design in the second one, then by god it must be horrible because if the first one is the standard of quality, then, god.

[QUOTE="Ballroompirate"]

[QUOTE="call_of_duty_10"]

Dunno.

I have got a feeling that DA3 will be just like DA2.

If that happens,the series is dead for me.

Bioware needs to learn from CDProject RED.The Witcher 2 destroys every bioware game this gen.

call_of_duty_10

You mean destroys them in pirates pirating their game :P

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="musalala"]

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/05/04/mass-effect-3-delayed-to-adjust-mechanics-for-larger-market-opp/

Then soon after they announced Multiplayer.

If you deny this, you are in serieos denial. The game that is mass effect 3 is going to b a straight up gears of war clone, a shooter

The witcher 2 and dragon age origins may be flawed games but they are still better games than the abomination known as DA2. On every measurable and objective indicator they are better games,

Critical Reception

Fan Reception

Sales

Dragon Age 2is s***t whether you want to admit this or not...its s***t

Bioware admited it

EA admited it

The Critics agree

The fans agree

Defending it only shows how big of a Fanboy you are.

musalala

LOL and you want to believe a company that made the exact same BS promises with DA2..Yes lets all get shafted again as we did with DA2

And again you are side stepping my arguement, there is no way that DA2 can be considered a success when it performed badly when compared to the original. A sequel of an established franchise that barely sold a third of its original game that scored significantly lower than the original that was flat out rejected by the fan base, again only the biggest fan boy would pretend that it was a success let alone that its BETTER. EA expected to sell 4.5 million units of DA 2

http://www.huliq.com/10177/huliq-projects-dragon-age-2-sales-figures-will-exceed-45-million

And it barely sold over 1.5 million ( it shipped 2 million) , the sales were so F****** bad they resorted to trying to entice customers by giving away ME 2 for free? Yes absolutly DA 2 was an earth shattering success.

And WTF do you want them to say to openly say our game is complete s*** we know we f**** up of course they will sugar coat it and say things like didn't meet expectations..and the "fanbase was dissapointed" thats translates to "yeah its crap"

Did you read the qoute from the CEO of EA they want to appeal to a "wider market" you honestly believe that means bringing deeper RPG mechanics or the exact opposite? ME 1 to ME2 we got a stripped down RPG what do you think this means for mass effect 3 if the want a "wider market?" If you want to live in your little delusion where making a game appeal to a wider market means adding "deeper" RPG mechanics then be my guest.

ME 3 is basically going to be like Crysis 2, Crysis 2 is a straight fps with very light RPG mechanics, you can customise you weapon and suit powers and thats it . ME 3 is basically this a shooter with very light rpg elements.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="dreman999"] And the reason it sucked is because it was rush...Everything was rush. You did get a character study because they wanted to rush the play to the interesting part of the character development with out allowing the characters to develop. The frame narrative was just a way to rush everything to the cool part of the story. If you thought the execution is sh*t. That's because it was rush. That how we know it was rushed. You have no drive in the intro, no real way of character development on till later in the game for your main character, no depth of concept of the environment you are in, the level design is copy and paste......DA2 is a rushed game.....That is why it's bad. All the thing that make bw games what they are is not developed well in the game.Krelian-co

no they weren't, characters in dragon age 2 were horrible, they tried so hard to make them different they overdid it and badly.

btw you crap about the story being too complicated for us commoners to understand it in alol its majesty its lol.

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] How is ME3 a Gears of War clone when you can modify your weapons and tailor your powers? Its deeper, and its confirmed to have deeper comabt mechanics to ME2. You kust have selective info here. Look who is in denial here. The critics gave it a metacritic in the 80's, still a respectable score for DAII, a game that was rushed. DAII still sold well. And here you go again trying to say that Bioware admitted it was crap...but they didn't. They said they made some missteps and they will account for them in the next game, which is caused by rushing a game out the door. Repeating dungeon designs, poor encounter designs, cut story bits are all caused by RUSHING THE GAME. They also said that they will use many DAII elements in DAIII such as the friendship/rivalry system and the talking protagonist, while bringing back some DAO elements as well. They basically said that DAIII will be combining elements of DAO and DAII.dreman999

LOL and you want to believe a company that made the exact same BS promises with DA2..Yes lets all get shafted again as we did with DA2

And again you are side stepping my arguement, there is no way that DA2 can be considered a success when it performed badly when compared to the original. A sequel of an established franchise that barely sold a third of its original game that scored significantly lower than the original that was flat out rejected by the fan base, again only the biggest fan boy would pretend that it was a success let alone that its BETTER. EA expected to sell 4.5 million units of DA 2

http://www.huliq.com/10177/huliq-projects-dragon-age-2-sales-figures-will-exceed-45-million

And it barely sold over 1.5 million ( it shipped 2 million) , the sales were so F****** bad they resorted to trying to entice customers by giving away ME 2 for free? Yes absolutly DA 2 was an earth shattering success.

And WTF do you want them to say to openly say our game is complete s*** we know we f**** up of course they will sugar coat it and say things like didn't meet expectations..and the "fanbase was dissapointed" thats translates to "yeah its crap"

Did you read the qoute from the CEO of EA they want to appeal to a "wider market" you honestly believe that means bringing deeper RPG mechanics or the exact opposite? ME 1 to ME2 we got a stripped down RPG what do you think this means for mass effect 3 if the want a "wider market?" If you want to live in your little delusion where making a game appeal to a wider market means adding "deeper" RPG mechanics then be my guest.

ME 3 is basically going to be like Crysis 2, Crysis 2 is a straight fps with very light RPG mechanics, you can customise you weapon and suit powers and thats it . ME 3 is basically this a shooter with very light rpg elements.

EA maybe, look at the vampiric history of EA ,name a single company that has been bought out by EA that actaully turned out for the better, This one game that you want to so casually sweep under the rug shows the direction they are taking WITH ALL their Ips, this is why everyone is so concerned

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]and how was it "overdone"? It wasn't. DAII's characterization was a natural progression from Awakenings, from caracitures like Oghren and Zervan to more human like characters like Nathaniel Howe and Sigrun. DAII is a step further.Krelian-co

c'mon they overdid it, isabella was like she had all the STD in the world, merril was beyond brain damaged, anders too damn whiney, he was a victim of everything, and the others, juyst mediocre

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="musalala"]

LOL and you want to believe a company that made the exact same BS promises with DA2..Yes lets all get shafted again as we did with DA2

And again you are side stepping my arguement, there is no way that DA2 can be considered a success when it performed badly when compared to the original. A sequel of an established franchise that barely sold a third of its original game that scored significantly lower than the original that was flat out rejected by the fan base, again only the biggest fan boy would pretend that it was a success let alone that its BETTER. EA expected to sell 4.5 million units of DA 2

http://www.huliq.com/10177/huliq-projects-dragon-age-2-sales-figures-will-exceed-45-million

And it barely sold over 1.5 million ( it shipped 2 million) , the sales were so F****** bad they resorted to trying to entice customers by giving away ME 2 for free? Yes absolutly DA 2 was an earth shattering success.

And WTF do you want them to say to openly say our game is complete s*** we know we f**** up of course they will sugar coat it and say things like didn't meet expectations..and the "fanbase was dissapointed" thats translates to "yeah its crap"

Did you read the qoute from the CEO of EA they want to appeal to a "wider market" you honestly believe that means bringing deeper RPG mechanics or the exact opposite? ME 1 to ME2 we got a stripped down RPG what do you think this means for mass effect 3 if the want a "wider market?" If you want to live in your little delusion where making a game appeal to a wider market means adding "deeper" RPG mechanics then be my guest.

ME 3 is basically going to be like Crysis 2, Crysis 2 is a straight fps with very light RPG mechanics, you can customise you weapon and suit powers and thats it . ME 3 is basically this a shooter with very light rpg elements.

musalala

EA maybe, look at the vampiric history of EA ,name a single company that has been bought out by EA that actaully turned out for the better, This one game that you want to so casually sweep under the rug shows the direction they are taking WITH ALL their Ips, this is why everyone is so concerned

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"]and how was it "overdone"? It wasn't. DAII's characterization was a natural progression from Awakenings, from caracitures like Oghren and Zervan to more human like characters like Nathaniel Howe and Sigrun. DAII is a step further.dreman999

c'mon they overdid it, isabella was like she had all the STD in the world, merril was beyond brain damaged, anders too damn whiney, he was a victim of everything, and the others, juyst mediocre

lets just agree to disagree, the way i see it you are just justifying the annoying characters.

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

c'mon they overdid it, isabella was like she had all the STD in the world, merril was beyond brain damaged, anders too damn whiney, he was a victim of everything, and the others, juyst mediocre

Krelian-co

lets just agree to disagree, the way i see it you are just justifying the annoying characters.

I don't know how bioware went so wrong. Maybe they started believing their own bull****. Maybe they wern't that good in the first place. Either way I won't be supporting them.

Go Gears of Mass Effect....

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] Again, how does one mediocre game means the end of a company that made so many great games.It was not even the dumbing down of the game that made it bad.dreman999

EA maybe, look at the vampiric history of EA ,name a single company that has been bought out by EA that actaully turned out for the better, This one game that you want to so casually sweep under the rug shows the direction they are taking WITH ALL their Ips, this is why everyone is so concerned

LOL really DA origins was made with the help of EA? are you sure about that?

Which quality games are you talking about? DA 2?

What I find absolutly hilarious about this BS claim that EA allows compaines to make better games is that after Bioware had all this "money" they go on to release a game that has recycled environments and scaled back in every conceivable way in other words a budget rushed game...yes absolutly EA is definatly finacing some amazing games for Bioware.

Compare games made by bioware pre EA and post EA, compare bioware"s behaviour pre EA and post EA ( and before you mention mass effct 2 its production began before EA aquired them so some of the old Bioware magic was still there)

For example Bioware point blank stated there would be no DRM with DA2, how did that turn out ...oh yes thats right it was a lie an out right BLATANT lie would pre ea bioware have done this?

and finally

"The character development and world, the very thing that make BW games great was never developed enough. That is what wrong with DA"

You shot your own foot would pre EA bioware have done this? Dragon age origins was in development until they felt it was ready DA2 was rushed out? why was this? The fact that with the release of DA2 we see a complete change in the way that Bioware does things is a clear indication of things to come, the old bioware would never dream of releasing such a p*** poor product and to add insult to injury all the lies that acompanied this game all the reasurrances that they were not dumbing it down all the deception pre EA bioware would not have done that. And also how come EA arent using the imaginery money you keep harping on about why release such a poor product if bioware now has access to more money.

[QUOTE="Krelian-co"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] 1. Ander's was always whiny, he's just more serious now....And they make a point to make fun of it. 2.Isabella being slutty does not make her a bad character...She is just as slutty as she is in DA:O. 3. They mostly did what your calling brain dead with Merril because we need a quaky funny character. For humor. It worked. She written to be super naive about the real world. But when it come to magic she is the most knowledgeable person in the room...If her keeper is not their.dreman999

lets just agree to disagree, the way i see it you are just justifying the annoying characters.

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="musalala"]

EA maybe, look at the vampiric history of EA ,name a single company that has been bought out by EA that actaully turned out for the better, This one game that you want to so casually sweep under the rug shows the direction they are taking WITH ALL their Ips, this is why everyone is so concerned

musalala

LOL really DA origins was made with the help of EA? are you sure about that?

Which quality games are you talking about? DA 2?

What I find absolutly hilarious about this BS claim that EA allows compaines to make better games is that after Bioware had all this "money" they go on to release a game that has recycled environments and scaled back in every conceivable way in other words a budget rushed game...yes absolutly EA is definatly finacing some amazing games for Bioware.

Compare games made by bioware pre EA and post EA, compare bioware"s behaviour pre EA and post EA ( and before you mention mass effct 2 its production began before EA aquired them so some of the old Bioware magic was still there)

For example Bioware point blank stated there would be no DRM with DA2, how did that turn out ...oh yes thats right it was a lie an out right BLATANT lie would pre ea bioware have done this?

and finally

"The character development and world, the very thing that make BW games great was never developed enough. That is what wrong with DA"

You shot your own foot would pre EA bioware have done this? Dragon age origins was in development until they felt it was ready DA2 was rushed out? why was this? The fact that with the release of DA2 we see a complete change in the way that Bioware does things is a clear indication of things to come, the old bioware would never dream of releasing such a p*** poor product and to add insult to injury all the lies that acompanied this game all the reasurrances that they were not dumbing it down all the deception pre EA bioware would not have done that. And also how come EA arent using the imaginery money you keep harping on about why release such a poor product if bioware now has access to more money.

Also, on your second statment. Look at ME2, ME3,and SWTOR...does it look like they are rushing those games? How long did it take them to make SWTOR? They rushed DA3. if that's the indication that they are rush production now on games......I should of been playing ME3 last month......Why am I not playing ME3?....Because it's not being rushed.Why have I not been playing SWTOR right now? Because it's not being rushed..... I think action speak louder then words on this... They are not changing how they make games because it made a failed game...Smart of them.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]1. DA would not even been started wit out EA. 2. BW would not have the finaces for the quality of games BW has now with out EA. 3.EA is better then microsoft. 4.EA is not the problem. Also, why bring up EA. I'm not talking about EA. And all the dumb down talk ignores what really went wrong with the game...It was rushed....The character development and world, the very thing that make BW games great was never developed enough. That is what wrong with DA2.AcidSoldner

this is od. theres a thread on neogaf with the same title and same post as charizards.

neogaf

charizard are you a member of neogaf?

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="dreman999"] 1. DA would not even been started wit out EA. 2. BW would not have the finaces for the quality of games BW has now with out EA. 3.EA is better then microsoft. 4.EA is not the problem. Also, why bring up EA. I'm not talking about EA. And all the dumb down talk ignores what really went wrong with the game...It was rushed....The character development and world, the very thing that make BW games great was never developed enough. That is what wrong with DA2.dreman999

LOL really DA origins was made with the help of EA? are you sure about that?

Which quality games are you talking about? DA 2?

What I find absolutly hilarious about this BS claim that EA allows compaines to make better games is that after Bioware had all this "money" they go on to release a game that has recycled environments and scaled back in every conceivable way in other words a budget rushed game...yes absolutly EA is definatly finacing some amazing games for Bioware.

Compare games made by bioware pre EA and post EA, compare bioware"s behaviour pre EA and post EA ( and before you mention mass effct 2 its production began before EA aquired them so some of the old Bioware magic was still there)

For example Bioware point blank stated there would be no DRM with DA2, how did that turn out ...oh yes thats right it was a lie an out right BLATANT lie would pre ea bioware have done this?

and finally

"The character development and world, the very thing that make BW games great was never developed enough. That is what wrong with DA"

You shot your own foot would pre EA bioware have done this? Dragon age origins was in development until they felt it was ready DA2 was rushed out? why was this? The fact that with the release of DA2 we see a complete change in the way that Bioware does things is a clear indication of things to come, the old bioware would never dream of releasing such a p*** poor product and to add insult to injury all the lies that acompanied this game all the reasurrances that they were not dumbing it down all the deception pre EA bioware would not have done that. And also how come EA arent using the imaginery money you keep harping on about why release such a poor product if bioware now has access to more money.

Also, on your second statment. Look at ME2, ME3,and SWTOR...does it look like they are rushing those games? How long did it take them to make SWTOR? They rushed DA3. if that's the indication that they are rush production now on games......I should of been playing ME3 last month......Why am I not playing ME3?....Because it's not being rushed.Why have I not been playing SWTOR right now? Because it's not being rushed..... I think action speak louder then words on this... They are not changing how they make games because it made a failed game...Smart of them.

Dragon age origins like mass effect 2 and even KOTOR all began production waaay before the EA aquisition, so the old bioware is still there

ME 3 was delayed not to polish the single player but to add multiplayer, I already posted a link

You avoided my question, if EA a good for bioware because it means more money why was game as poor as DA 2 released, a game that was essentially a budget game with so many corners cut. Surely the logic would be more money=better more polished games instead its more money=is s***

[QUOTE="dreman999"][QUOTE="musalala"]

LOL and you want to believe a company that made the exact same BS promises with DA2..Yes lets all get shafted again as we did with DA2

And again you are side stepping my arguement, there is no way that DA2 can be considered a success when it performed badly when compared to the original. A sequel of an established franchise that barely sold a third of its original game that scored significantly lower than the original that was flat out rejected by the fan base, again only the biggest fan boy would pretend that it was a success let alone that its BETTER. EA expected to sell 4.5 million units of DA 2

http://www.huliq.com/10177/huliq-projects-dragon-age-2-sales-figures-will-exceed-45-million

And it barely sold over 1.5 million ( it shipped 2 million) , the sales were so F****** bad they resorted to trying to entice customers by giving away ME 2 for free? Yes absolutly DA 2 was an earth shattering success.

And WTF do you want them to say to openly say our game is complete s*** we know we f**** up of course they will sugar coat it and say things like didn't meet expectations..and the "fanbase was dissapointed" thats translates to "yeah its crap"

Did you read the qoute from the CEO of EA they want to appeal to a "wider market" you honestly believe that means bringing deeper RPG mechanics or the exact opposite? ME 1 to ME2 we got a stripped down RPG what do you think this means for mass effect 3 if the want a "wider market?" If you want to live in your little delusion where making a game appeal to a wider market means adding "deeper" RPG mechanics then be my guest.

ME 3 is basically going to be like Crysis 2, Crysis 2 is a straight fps with very light RPG mechanics, you can customise you weapon and suit powers and thats it . ME 3 is basically this a shooter with very light rpg elements.

musalala

EA maybe, look at the vampiric history of EA ,name a single company that has been bought out by EA that actaully turned out for the better, This one game that you want to so casually sweep under the rug shows the direction they are taking WITH ALL their Ips, this is why everyone is so concerned

Criterion really is the only one.

Burnout 3 and beyond were significally better than the first two games which were published by Acclaim.

Then again, NFS: Hot Pursuit had overpriced DLC and its social networking aspect of it was milked to death.

They sold out to EA.

Now making as much profit as possible is the company's main goal. Producing quality games comes second.

[QUOTE="dreman999"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

LOL really DA origins was made with the help of EA? are you sure about that?

Which quality games are you talking about? DA 2?

What I find absolutly hilarious about this BS claim that EA allows compaines to make better games is that after Bioware had all this "money" they go on to release a game that has recycled environments and scaled back in every conceivable way in other words a budget rushed game...yes absolutly EA is definatly finacing some amazing games for Bioware.

Compare games made by bioware pre EA and post EA, compare bioware"s behaviour pre EA and post EA ( and before you mention mass effct 2 its production began before EA aquired them so some of the old Bioware magic was still there)

For example Bioware point blank stated there would be no DRM with DA2, how did that turn out ...oh yes thats right it was a lie an out right BLATANT lie would pre ea bioware have done this?

and finally

"The character development and world, the very thing that make BW games great was never developed enough. That is what wrong with DA"

You shot your own foot would pre EA bioware have done this? Dragon age origins was in development until they felt it was ready DA2 was rushed out? why was this? The fact that with the release of DA2 we see a complete change in the way that Bioware does things is a clear indication of things to come, the old bioware would never dream of releasing such a p*** poor product and to add insult to injury all the lies that acompanied this game all the reasurrances that they were not dumbing it down all the deception pre EA bioware would not have done that. And also how come EA arent using the imaginery money you keep harping on about why release such a poor product if bioware now has access to more money.

musalala

Also, on your second statment. Look at ME2, ME3,and SWTOR...does it look like they are rushing those games? How long did it take them to make SWTOR? They rushed DA3. if that's the indication that they are rush production now on games......I should of been playing ME3 last month......Why am I not playing ME3?....Because it's not being rushed.Why have I not been playing SWTOR right now? Because it's not being rushed..... I think action speak louder then words on this... They are not changing how they make games because it made a failed game...Smart of them.

Dragon age origins like mass effect 2 and even KOTOR all began production waaay before the EA aquisition, so the old bioware is still there

ME 3 was delayed not to polish the single player but to add multiplayer, I already posted a link

You avoided my question, if EA a good for bioware because it means more money why was game as poor as DA 2 released, a game that was essentially a budget game with so many corners cut?

EA let a game like DA:O print with the only changes to the game demanded is that they cloth women.....And let everything in DA: O that EA of old never allow to be published by them. And he way BW handles nudity now is even stranger because EA is allowing it now, made very clear by Dante's inferno. The point is arguing the fact that EA, a company to use to be the kind of company that would never publish a game like dragon age, allowed DA:O to publish after buying BW, only because BW already started on it, is a very groundless and ignorant argument....Because EA can stop production of the game at any time and massively censor the game.

Swtor product started because of the purchase. Swtor is the only reason why EA bought BW and production did not start utill after BW was bought by EA.

And about ME3, Please this is EA. You think it's a good idea to delay a game that a massive basis for revenue for the your company because they wanted to add mp...That they lose money to add mp and not try sell you ME3 and then sell you the mp separately. This is the same company that sold you 3 separate dlc's at the launch of DA:O....You really think EA would be willing to delay getting paid, and be willing not to try to make an up sell?

If the games delay, it means that it more then just mp they delayed the game for. And it's made clear by the fact that EA is not making you buy the mp as dlc at launch.

They sold out to EA.

Now making as much profit as possible is the company's main goal. Producing quality games comes second.

GiantAssPanda

That's the American way. Where have you been?

this is od. theres a thread on neogaf with the same title and same post as charizards.

neogaf

charizard are you a member of neogaf?

TheShadowLord07