Is it possible to build a 400$ PC and run games as powerfull as Killzone 2?

[QUOTE="lemaklendir02"]

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"]

There

Power supply-BFG 550W - $50

CPu-Athlon 2 x3 2,7 GHZ ( triple core ) - $72

Mobo-Asrock Am3 with 2 PC-X x16 slots for sli/crossfire - $60

Vga-Sapphire Ati 5670- $93 Great mainstream vga that can play most games even at 1080p

RAM-Kingston 2GB DDR3 1333 - $53

HD -250GB seagate $45

Case- Gigabyte - $27

Add $10-15 for a keyboard and mouse and you are set

much better than consoles and only $400 ( 410-420 with a KB+M )

You dont need a dvd drive just use various DD services

adamosmaki

you push to hard man....

playing today pc games at 1080p with 5670.... :))

it struggle playing crysis at 720p

Compared to CryEngine3, CryEngine2 is not as efficient e.g. lights rendering.

For efficient lighting, Crysis 2 (CryEngine3) also uses deferred rendering method. Crysis PC uses brute force method i.e. not very efficient, hence why you don't see Crysis (CryEngine2) on consoles. Same console constrains and similar rendering methods.

ronvalencia

Remember to note that deferred lighting is not simply a cheaper form of lighting, there are disadvantages. I remember reading somewhere the most notable issues are regarding transparency and antialiasing.

PC gamers in particular are well aware of the AA issues.

[QUOTE="kolkov01"]

I issue a challenge

Show me that you can build a 400$ PC that runs games as graphically amazing as Killzone 2

adamosmaki

There

Power supply-BFG 550W - $50

CPu-Athlon 2 x3 2,7 GHZ ( triple core ) - $72

Mobo-Asrock Am3 with 2 PC-X x16 slots for sli/crossfire - $60

Vga-Sapphire Ati 5670- $93 Great mainstream vga that can play most games even at 1080p

RAM-Kingston 2GB DDR3 1333 - $53

HD -250GB seagate $45

Case- Gigabyte - $27

Add $10-15 for a keyboard and mouse and you are set

much better than consoles and only $400 ( 410-420 with a KB+M )

You dont need a dvd drive just use various DD services

You forgot Windows 7 and I would want a DVD burner and I would want more than 250GB, and I would want it in a Raid 0 config

[QUOTE="windsquid9000"]You know that there's more holes in your argument than pores on the human body, right? mythrol

Can a Video card be too powerful for some computers?????Munasha

Yes, that's called being bottlenecked.

A GPU still requires the CPU in order to complete it's work, if the CPU is very weak; then the GPU is not running at its full capability.

It happened to me years ago when I had a 7900GT and a 2ghz single core processor, when I upgraded to a 2.8ghz dual core I received a significant boost in graphical performance.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

For efficient lighting, Crysis 2 (CryEngine3) also uses deferred rendering method. Crysis PC uses brute force method i.e. not very efficient, hence why you don't see Crysis (CryEngine2) on consoles. Same console constrains and similar rendering methods.

Remember to note that deferred lighting is not simply a cheaper form of lighting, there are disadvantages. I remember reading somewhere the most notable issues are regarding transparency and antialiasing.

PC gamers in particular are well aware of the AA issues.

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"]

[QUOTE="kolkov01"]

I issue a challenge

Show me that you can build a 400$ PC that runs games as graphically amazing as Killzone 2

HermitGTX

There

Power supply-BFG 550W - $50

CPu-Athlon 2 x3 2,7 GHZ ( triple core ) - $72

Mobo-Asrock Am3 with 2 PC-X x16 slots for sli/crossfire - $60

Vga-Sapphire Ati 5670- $93 Great mainstream vga that can play most games even at 1080p

RAM-Kingston 2GB DDR3 1333 - $53

HD -250GB seagate $45

Case- Gigabyte - $27

Add $10-15 for a keyboard and mouse and you are set

much better than consoles and only $400 ( 410-420 with a KB+M )

You dont need a dvd drive just use various DD services

You forgot Windows 7 and I would want a DVD burner

Crytek uses a hybrid method i.e. best of both worlds.ronvalencia

Hopefully that's the case, I'm skeptical of the performance implications of running two lighting methods at once.

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"]

There

Power supply-BFG 550W - $50

CPu-Athlon 2 x3 2,7 GHZ ( triple core ) - $72

Mobo-Asrock Am3 with 2 PC-X x16 slots for sli/crossfire - $60

Vga-Sapphire Ati 5670- $93 Great mainstream vga that can play most games even at 1080p

RAM-Kingston 2GB DDR3 1333 - $53

HD -250GB seagate $45

Case- Gigabyte - $27

Add $10-15 for a keyboard and mouse and you are set

much better than consoles and only $400 ( 410-420 with a KB+M )

You dont need a dvd drive just use various DD services

You forgot Windows 7 and I would want a DVD burner

[QUOTE="Munasha"]Can a Video card be too powerful for some computers?????AnnoyedDragon

Yes, that's called being bottlenecked.

A GPU still requires the CPU in order to complete it's work, if the CPU is very weak; then the GPU is not running at its full capability.

It happened to me years ago when I had a 7900GT and a 2ghz single core processor, when I upgraded to a 2.8ghz dual core I received a significant boost in graphical performance.

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"]

[QUOTE="kolkov01"]

I issue a challenge

Show me that you can build a 400$ PC that runs games as graphically amazing as Killzone 2

HermitGTX

There

Power supply-BFG 550W - $50

CPu-Athlon 2 x3 2,7 GHZ ( triple core ) - $72

Mobo-Asrock Am3 with 2 PC-X x16 slots for sli/crossfire - $60

Vga-Sapphire Ati 5670- $93 Great mainstream vga that can play most games even at 1080p

RAM-Kingston 2GB DDR3 1333 - $53

HD -250GB seagate $45

Case- Gigabyte - $27

Add $10-15 for a keyboard and mouse and you are set

much better than consoles and only $400 ( 410-420 with a KB+M )

You dont need a dvd drive just use various DD services

You forgot Windows 7 and I would want a DVD burner and I would want more than 250GB, and I would want it in a Raid 0 config

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"][QUOTE="HermitGTX"]

You forgot Windows 7 and I would want a DVD burner

savagetwinkie

and why is that please? Although winxp is my main OS I can still run games like WOW,Guild Wars, Supreme commander , Command and conquer 3, anno 1404 and even Bad company 2 beta perfectly fine and yes even though the performance is not comparable to Winxp most of those games run perfectly fine

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]Crytek uses a hybrid method i.e. best of both worlds.AnnoyedDragon

Hopefully that's the case, I'm skeptical of the performance implications of running two lighting methods at once.

Refer to http://www.crytek.com/fileadmin/user_upload/inside/presentations/2009/Light_Propagation_Volumes.pdf

Benchmarks on page 29.

In addition to SSAO (Screen Space Ambient Occlusion), CryEngine3 includes SSGI (Screen Space Global Illumination).

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="adamosmaki"] Linux+wine and a Dvd burner is not necessary for gaming even though you can buy one for only $20-30adamosmaki

and why is that please? Although winxp is my main OS I can still run games like WOW,Guild Wars, Supreme commander , Command and conquer 3, anno 1404 and even Bad company 2 beta perfectly fine and yes even though the performance is not comparable to Winxp most of those games run perfectly fine

Depends on the API i.e. DirectX 9 or DirectX 10.ronvalencia

Well the 7900GT is a DirectX 9 GPU, so no surprise there.

Still, the CPU does play a role in GPU performance, even in DirectX 11 that boasts one of its new features as being taking advantage of multiple CPU cores.

Like Geforce 7, PS3's RSX follows the DirectX9 workload model i.e. CELL can cover the CPU stages sufficiently. DirectX9's limitation didn't stop Crytek doing the following "Vegetation in games has always been mainly static, with some sort of simple bending to give the illusion of wind. Our game scenes can have thousands of different vegetations, but still we pushed the envelope further by making vegetation react to global and local wind sources, and we bend not only the vegetation but also the leaves, in detail, with all computations procedurally and efficiently done on the GPU."ronvalencia

I'd have to question how much of that would make it into the console versions, considering what we saw in the tech demos. For example we have seen surrounding vegetation react to explosions in Crysis, the CryEngine 3 tech demos lacked this. To go from lacking it; to having each individual leaf react is a bit of a stretch.

I'd have to question how much of that would make it into the console versions, considering what we saw in the tech demos. For example we have seen surrounding vegetation react to explosions in Crysis, the CryEngine 3 tech demos lacked this. To go from lacking it; to having each individual leaf react is a bit of a stretch.

AnnoyedDragon

Refer to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kvl31g77Z8

at 01:19 timestamp.

On the PC, CPU plays a role in gaming but not in sameextent as PS3's workload model.

On Intel's GMA IGPs, CPU still plays a large role.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

Hush now, or we will start talking about the free HDTV that seems to come with every console :P

Teufelhuhn

What's that they say? They use a TV for more than gaming? What a coincidence, I use my PC for all sorts of none gaming tasks as well. Even my GPU is used to accelerate various tasks such as Badaboom media converter, GPU acceleration of Blu-ray films and even acceleration of HD flash video over YouTube.

That said these sort of topics can be easily turned around by asking them for a console with the functionality of a PC; at any price. In the end they are comparing two things that are incomparable, a dedicated mass produced device to a modular one with a wide range of capabilities. With PC you are paying for things that were excluded from consoles because they didn't have to consider that functionality.

At the end of the day I stand by the good old saying of you get what you pay for, if you are 100% price driven there are cheaper means of gaming than the PS3/360 out there. I know console gamers recognise this saying, they only use it selectively for their advantage. Take for instance that the PS3 is no longer the cheapest Blu-ray player, people would still argue its value because reviews consider it the best Blu-ray player out there.

What's that? Paying more for additional quality/features? Imagine that.
AnnoyedDragon

Refer to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kvl31g77Z8

at 01:19 timestamp.

ronvalencia

A little far away to note individual leaf movement. Also that clip was listed as next gen ready, I'm not questioning the engines ability to do what you mentioned; just whether that will translate over to consoles like you said.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Depends on the API i.e. DirectX 9 or DirectX 10.AnnoyedDragon

Well the 7900GT is a DirectX 9 GPU, so no surprise there.

Still, the CPU does play a role in GPU performance, even in DirectX 11 that boasts one of its new features as being taking advantage of multiple CPU cores.

Like Geforce 7, PS3's RSX follows the DirectX9 workload model i.e. CELL can cover the CPU stages sufficiently. DirectX9's limitation didn't stop Crytek doing the following "Vegetation in games has always been mainly static, with some sort of simple bending to give the illusion of wind. Our game scenes can have thousands of different vegetations, but still we pushed the envelope further by making vegetation react to global and local wind sources, and we bend not only the vegetation but also the leaves, in detail, with all computations procedurally and efficiently done on the GPU."ronvalencia

I'd have to question how much of that would make it into the console versions, considering what we saw in the tech demos. For example we have seen surrounding vegetation react to explosions in Crysis, the CryEngine 3 tech demos lacked this. To go from lacking it; to having each individual leaf react is a bit of a stretch.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

Refer to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kvl31g77Z8

at 01:19 timestamp.

A little far away to note individual leaf movement. Also that clip was listed as next gen ready, I'm not questioning the engines ability to do what you mentioned; just whether that will translate over to consoles like you said.

So, this is another of the myriads of Crysis threads.

If that's not your intent, it's most certainly can happen.

Of course, I may have just changed history with my post, for the good.:P

SolidTy

A 400$ pc wont run Crysis at the level that puts it beyond any console.

[QUOTE="HermitGTX"]

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"]

There

Power supply-BFG 550W - $50

CPu-Athlon 2 x3 2,7 GHZ ( triple core ) - $72

Mobo-Asrock Am3 with 2 PC-X x16 slots for sli/crossfire - $60

Vga-Sapphire Ati 5670- $93 Great mainstream vga that can play most games even at 1080p

RAM-Kingston 2GB DDR3 1333 - $53

HD -250GB seagate $45

Case- Gigabyte - $27

Add $10-15 for a keyboard and mouse and you are set

much better than consoles and only $400 ( 410-420 with a KB+M )

You dont need a dvd drive just use various DD services

iliatay

You forgot Windows 7 and I would want a DVD burner and I would want more than 250GB, and I would want it in a Raid 0 config

He has no OS included in his price and that is a must .

Direct X is really a standardization, it s basicly a bunch of precompiled libraries. But the consoles do allow assembly to be used, giving you much better control over the hardware. You can basicly make your own graphics API or if your program takes up too much cpu time or memory, make small microprograms that you can call. It basicly supports all of the features of dx9. If soemthing ends up being bloated or you think of a better way to produce something you can take a bit better control of the cpu and add assembly and make things even more effient. That is one benefit of consoles since they have standard hardware. savagetwinkie

DX API is an abstraction layer for the underlying JIT driver/hardware. ATI and NV GPUs makes hardware assumptions based on DX API design e.g. register count and constants. There's a differences between Intel Larrabee and Direct3D native GPUs. Also, Intel GMA X3100 has 128 scalar processors and it performs poorly.

PS3's RSX uses LibCGM i.e. thin layer API. LibCGM doesn't overcome G7X's design issues btw. On PC+NV GPU, you have NVAPI (part of "The way it's meant to be played"). NVIDIA has it's own standards.

A 400$ pc wont run Crysis at the level that puts it beyond any console.TheSterls

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

I'd have to question how much of that would make it into the console versions, considering what we saw in the tech demos. For example we have seen surrounding vegetation react to explosions in Crysis, the CryEngine 3 tech demos lacked this. To go from lacking it; to having each individual leaf react is a bit of a stretch.

ronvalencia

Direct X is really a standardization, it s basicly a bunch of precompiled libraries. But the consoles do allow assembly to be used, giving you much better control over the hardware. You can basicly make your own graphics API or if your program takes up too much cpu time or memory, make small microprograms that you can call. It basicly supports all of the features of dx9. If soemthing ends up being bloated or you think of a better way to produce something you can take a bit better control of the cpu and add assembly and make things even more effient. That is one benefit of consoles since they have standard hardware. savagetwinkie

I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment as I was refering to PC gaming when talking about DirectX.

RSX has the same pixel pipeline count as (G70) Geforce 7800 GTX? It's limited on ROPs count and dedicated VRAM bandwidth but compute power would be similar. ronvalencia

Only I'm not questioning RSX's performance in comparison to G70. What I said was surrounding vegetation's reaction to explosions was removed from the console tech demo, as you can see here at 0:40. I assume it was removed for performance reasons, therefore how do you go from removing that to being able to have every leaf respond to explosions like you suggested?

I wouldn't even consider GPU computing on consoles, Crysis 2 is going to stress their GPUs enough in the graphics department as it is. Havok FX tried GPU computing on G70 GPUs, it didn't go too well.

-edit

Sorry to run but it's like 02:30 here, night.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] Direct X is really a standardization, it s basicly a bunch of precompiled libraries. But the consoles do allow assembly to be used, giving you much better control over the hardware. You can basicly make your own graphics API or if your program takes up too much cpu time or memory, make small microprograms that you can call. It basicly supports all of the features of dx9. If soemthing ends up being bloated or you think of a better way to produce something you can take a bit better control of the cpu and add assembly and make things even more effient. That is one benefit of consoles since they have standard hardware. savagetwinkie

DirectX includes D3D JIT complier. e.g. Aug2009_D3DCompiler_42_x64.cab.

How would FarCry 2 gain some DX10.1 features on so called NVIDIA DX10.0 GPUs? Hint: NVAPI.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]Direct X is really a standardization, it s basicly a bunch of precompiled libraries. But the consoles do allow assembly to be used, giving you much better control over the hardware. You can basicly make your own graphics API or if your program takes up too much cpu time or memory, make small microprograms that you can call. It basicly supports all of the features of dx9. If soemthing ends up being bloated or you think of a better way to produce something you can take a bit better control of the cpu and add assembly and make things even more effient. That is one benefit of consoles since they have standard hardware. AnnoyedDragon

I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment as I was refering to PC gaming when talking about DirectX.

RSX has the same pixel pipeline count as (G70) Geforce 7800 GTX? It's limited on ROPs count and dedicated VRAM bandwidth but compute power would be similar. ronvalencia

Only I'm not questioning RSX's performance in comparison to G70. What I said was surrounding vegetation's reaction to explosions was removed from the console tech demo, as you can see here at 0:40. I assume it was removed for performance reasons, therefore how do you go from removing that to being able to have every leaf respond to explosions like you suggested?

I wouldn't even consider GPU computing on consoles, Crysis 2 is going to stress their GPUs enough in the graphics department as it is. Havok FX tried GPU computing on G70 GPUs, it didn't go too well.

-edit

Sorry to run but it's like 02:30 here, night.

MY PC only costed round $500 and I can run Crysis on 'high' settings. o.o

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

DX API is an abstraction layer for the underlying hardware. ATI and NV GPUs makes hardware assumptions based on DX API design e.g. register count and constants. There's a differences between Intel Larrabee and Direct3D native GPUs. PS3's RSX uses LibCGM i.e. thin layer API. LibCGM doesn't overcome G7X's design issues btw. On PC+NV GPU, you have NVAPI (part of "The way it's meant to be played").ronvalencia

DirectX includes D3D JIT complier. e.g. Aug2009_D3DCompiler_42_x64.cab.

How would FarCry 2 gain some DX10.1 features on so called NVIDIA DX10.0 GPUs? Hint: NVAPI.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]Direct X is really a standardization, it s basicly a bunch of precompiled libraries. But the consoles do allow assembly to be used, giving you much better control over the hardware. You can basicly make your own graphics API or if your program takes up too much cpu time or memory, make small microprograms that you can call. It basicly supports all of the features of dx9. If soemthing ends up being bloated or you think of a better way to produce something you can take a bit better control of the cpu and add assembly and make things even more effient. That is one benefit of consoles since they have standard hardware. AnnoyedDragon

I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment as I was refering to PC gaming when talking about DirectX.

RSX has the same pixel pipeline count as (G70) Geforce 7800 GTX? It's limited on ROPs count and dedicated VRAM bandwidth but compute power would be similar. ronvalencia

Only I'm not questioning RSX's performance in comparison to G70. What I said was surrounding vegetation's reaction to explosions was removed from the console tech demo, as you can see here at 0:40. I assume it was removed for performance reasons, therefore how do you go from removing that to being able to have every leaf respond to explosions like you suggested?

I wouldn't even consider GPU computing on consoles, Crysis 2 is going to stress their GPUs enough in the graphics department as it is. Havok FX tried GPU computing on G70 GPUs, it didn't go too well.

-edit

Sorry to run but it's like 02:30 here, night.

[QUOTE="TheSterls"]A 400$ pc wont run Crysis at the level that puts it beyond any console.Vandalvideo

Look at the list that he made and look at the fact he doesnt even have an OS included in his pricing .

Look at the list that he made and look at the fact he doesnt even have an OS included in his pricing .TheSterls

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] but from what i read the consoles do support assembly, and from what i read of directx they are precompiled libraries that the cards support, but my point is you can use assembly to get under that layer.

savagetwinkie

DirectX includes D3D JIT complier. e.g. Aug2009_D3DCompiler_42_x64.cab.

How would FarCry 2 gain some DX10.1 features on so called NVIDIA DX10.0 GPUs? Hint: NVAPI.

From pure performance POV, the GPU hardware has to natively support D3D release i.e. note why full D3D11 API release = new D3D11 hardware.

On non-native hardware, you can emulate D3D11 calls with a series of instructions, but their overall performance is slow.

For FarCry2, ATI D3D10.1 GPUs runs on DX10.1 path while NV D3D10.0 GPUs runs on NVAPI path. There's a backwards D3D 10.0 path.

On NVAPI, Refer to http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nvapi.html

• Frame Rendering. Ability to control Video and DX rendering not available in DX runtime.

FarCry 2's NV DX10 kitbash. http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2008/10/22/nvidia-gpus-support-dx10-1-features-in-far-cry-2/1

the red team will go out and try to get every ISV to implement things that aren't supported [by our GPUs] for competitive reasons. That really isn't good for game developers, Microsoft and also for us too. So I'd rather not say what [DX10.1] features we don't support - NVIDIA

For pure performance, the hardware has to natively support API features.

Low level programming doesn't overcome RSX's MSAA and HDR FP limitation (you can do it with multiplecycle consuming LogLuv HDR method).

On the side note, LOL at "That really isn't good forMicrosoft"NVIDIA POV i.e. NVIDIA kit-bashed Microsoft's APIs. How would that be good for Microsoft?

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

DirectX includes D3D JIT complier. e.g. Aug2009_D3DCompiler_42_x64.cab.

How would FarCry 2 gain some DX10.1 features on so called NVIDIA DX10.0 GPUs? Hint: NVAPI.

ronvalencia

From pureperformance POV, the GPU hardware has to natively support D3D release. For high performance,note whyfull D3D11 API release = new D3D11 hardware. On non-native hardware, you can emulate D3D11 calls with a series of instructions, but their overall performance is slow.

For FarCry2, ATI D3D10.1 GPUs runs on DX10.1 path while NV D3D10.0 GPUs runs on NVAPI path. There's a backwards D3D 10.0 path.

On NVAPI, Refer to http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nvapi.html

• Frame Rendering. Ability to control Video and DX rendering not available in DX runtime.

And i noticed the rest of your post, but i'm not saying you can over come hardware limitations with programming in assembly, i'm saying if your doing something in directx and it happens to be doing more then you need, its completly possibly to ditch the directx solution in write your own microprogram, that is very very specific to that processor.

Whats all this bs about cases costing $100 and the need to buy new windows O.o

OK lets say we add $100 for windows, $100 for case, pretty lights, a kitten whatever else you want. THATS 600.

FIND ME SOMEONE WITH A PS3 THAT DOESNT HAVE A PC. 600-400=200. windows+case=200=fail?

I issue a challenge

Show me that you can build a 400$ PC that runs games as graphically amazing as Killzone 2

kolkov01

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] But that NVAPI is that nvidia only? i'm no expert on this stuff, but what i go to school for i tend to work under the api type of deal, from my understanding directx is precompiled libraries but that is supported by the hardware. And even then i doubt directx is the only thing they support or do the same, nvidia and ati likely have their own implementation at the hardware level, and what i'm saying is i can't find it but i read the at least the 360's GPU can be used with assembly. Which basicly skips the API.

savagetwinkie

From pureperformance POV, the GPU hardware has to natively support D3D release. For high performance,note whyfull D3D11 API release = new D3D11 hardware. On non-native hardware, you can emulate D3D11 calls with a series of instructions, but their overall performance is slow.

For FarCry2, ATI D3D10.1 GPUs runs on DX10.1 path while NV D3D10.0 GPUs runs on NVAPI path. There's a backwards D3D 10.0 path.

On NVAPI, Refer to http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nvapi.html

• Frame Rendering. Ability to control Video and DX rendering not available in DX runtime.

And i noticed the rest of your post, but i'm not saying you can over come hardware limitations with programming in assembly, i'm saying if your doing something in directx and it happens to be doing more then you need, its completly possibly to ditch the directx solution in write your own microprogram, that is very very specific to that processor.

The "ability to control Video and DX rendering not available in DX runtime" requires NDA.

From http://www.crytek.com/fileadmin/user_upload/inside/presentations/2009/Light_Propagation_Volumes.pdf

On Page 17, some GPU hardware features used in consoles (i.e. Xbox 360 and PS3) and DX10 APIs but not possible with DX9c APIs (do it the long way).

On Page 3, rendering budget being possible on Geforce 7 series GPUs.

Get me a 200$ brand new PS3 that can run good games.

[QUOTE="kolkov01"]

I issue a challenge

Show me that you can build a 400$ PC that runs games as graphically amazing as Killzone 2

Mr_BillGates

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] But that NVAPI is that nvidia only? i'm no expert on this stuff, but what i go to school for i tend to work under the api type of deal, from my understanding directx is precompiled libraries but that is supported by the hardware. And even then i doubt directx is the only thing they support or do the same, nvidia and ati likely have their own implementation at the hardware level, and what i'm saying is i can't find it but i read the at least the 360's GPU can be used with assembly. Which basicly skips the API.

savagetwinkie

From pureperformance POV, the GPU hardware has to natively support D3D release. For high performance,note whyfull D3D11 API release = new D3D11 hardware. On non-native hardware, you can emulate D3D11 calls with a series of instructions, but their overall performance is slow.

For FarCry2, ATI D3D10.1 GPUs runs on DX10.1 path while NV D3D10.0 GPUs runs on NVAPI path. There's a backwards D3D 10.0 path.

On NVAPI, Refer to http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nvapi.html

• Frame Rendering. Ability to control Video and DX rendering not available in DX runtime.

And i noticed the rest of your post, but i'm not saying you can over come hardware limitations with programming in assembly, i'm saying if your doing something in directx and it happens to be doing more then you need, its completly possibly to ditch the directx solution in write your own microprogram, that is very very specific to that processor.

[QUOTE="iliatay"] so ur gonna play with no sound? and its really obvious that u dont even have a pc.lowe0

As for my not owning a PC: care to put your time where your mouth is? 4 hours of volunteer work for charity. If it's so obvious that I don't own a PC, then this should be a no-brainer for you. Let's see your response in this thread.