Is it possible to build a 400$ PC and run games as powerfull as Killzone 2?

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kolkov01

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#301 kolkov01
Member since 2009 • 2350 Posts

[QUOTE="kolkov01"]I didn't create this challenge so I could own the PC, I was actually pretty supportive of the first few answers that actually had a rig in the budget I setAnnoyedDragon

Yes you did, instead of asking it in the PC hardware section where there are plenty of people who can help with this sort of thing; you posted it in SW. The sole purpose of this thread is to make a cost driven argument that has no regard for features of quality, to invalidate every advantage PC has to offer the moment it goes outside of your artificially placed price limit.

I could of course be wrong, but these sort of threads are not uncommon in SW; and they are far more often than not an attempt to bash PC because it's more expensive than consoles.

I created on system wars for two reasons:

First because you always get more answers on system wars then you do on any other section of the forum

Second: Because if the PC in question couldn't run graphics like Killzone 2 i'm pretty sure the cows would have been all over said poster

I'm actually a great supporter of the PC, I own more then 100 PC games

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savagetwinkie

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#302 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts
[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"] Youre talking to a guy that believes firmly that legal=moral....and that advocates theft of devs money though the used games market....True_Gamer_
I've told you multiple times now, create a thread if you want to discuss the legality / morality / effects / causes / whatever of piracy and buying used games. That's not what this thread is about. Yet you're trying to use piracy as the reason PC gaming is cheaper.

And youre trying to use the used games as the reason that console gaming is cheaper....I guess you cannot support your view through new games.... :lol:

Ok go to the store, look at the prices on the shelves, PC games ALL brand new, then you got a selection of used vs new console games, regardless of what is morally correct, i can get an actual hard copy and pay for it. And remember its not me ripping off the dev's its the game store, i'm a customer of the game store, if i want to buy directly from the manufacturer i have that option too.
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deactivated-635601fd996cc

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#303 deactivated-635601fd996cc
Member since 2009 • 4381 Posts
[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"] Youre talking to a guy that believes firmly that legal=moral....and that advocates theft of devs money though the used games market....ocstew
I've told you multiple times now, create a thread if you want to discuss the legality / morality / effects / causes / whatever of piracy and buying used games. That's not what this thread is about. Yet you're trying to use piracy as the reason PC gaming is cheaper.

Hey hello? Are you gonna respond to this? Well look who can count? I believe the PC has way more bang for buck. Can you debate that instead of setting stupid and unwinable arguments?

Hello?
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True_Gamer_

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#304 True_Gamer_
Member since 2006 • 6750 Posts

[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"][QUOTE="mythrol"] I've told you multiple times now, create a thread if you want to discuss the legality / morality / effects / causes / whatever of piracy and buying used games. That's not what this thread is about. Yet you're trying to use piracy as the reason PC gaming is cheaper.mythrol
And youre trying to use the used games as the reason that console gaming is cheaper....I guess you cannot support your view through new games.... :lol:

No. I'm trying to discuss the hardware issue. Software prices can vary due to any number of reasons and are irrelevant in discussing the price of hardware.

Ok so we gonna have a PC and a PS3 without games....So Ill just get a cheapo prebuilt PC at £200+£50 BR Drive.....Nice try... :lol:

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mythrol

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#305 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts
[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"] Youre talking to a guy that believes firmly that legal=moral....and that advocates theft of devs money though the used games market....ocstew
I've told you multiple times now, create a thread if you want to discuss the legality / morality / effects / causes / whatever of piracy and buying used games. That's not what this thread is about. Yet you're trying to use piracy as the reason PC gaming is cheaper.

Hey hello? Are you gonna respond to this? Well look who can count? I believe the PC has way more bang for buck. Can you debate that instead of setting stupid and unwinable arguments?

No, I actually agree with you that PCs would have more bang for your buck. I think everyone assumes I'm some fanboy. I am not. Like I've said multiple times (and obviously I have to keep repeating it because people are unable to comprehend) PC has it's benefits. If you count the entire back library of PC games, I think you'd have a very strong argument for more bang/buck than any console. That's not the point I'm arguing. I'm aruging that PC gaming isn't as cheap as console gaming.
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True_Gamer_

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#306 True_Gamer_
Member since 2006 • 6750 Posts
[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"][QUOTE="mythrol"] I've told you multiple times now, create a thread if you want to discuss the legality / morality / effects / causes / whatever of piracy and buying used games. That's not what this thread is about. Yet you're trying to use piracy as the reason PC gaming is cheaper.savagetwinkie
And youre trying to use the used games as the reason that console gaming is cheaper....I guess you cannot support your view through new games.... :lol:

Ok go to the store, look at the prices on the shelves, PC games ALL brand new, then you got a selection of used vs new console games, regardless of what is morally correct, i can get an actual hard copy and pay for it. And remember its not me ripping off the dev's its the game store, i'm a customer of the game store, if i want to buy directly from the manufacturer i have that option too.

Downloading software for free is still legal in Greece....So is ok to pirate?
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savagetwinkie

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#307 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts

[QUOTE="kolkov01"]I didn't create this challenge so I could own the PC, I was actually pretty supportive of the first few answers that actually had a rig in the budget I setAnnoyedDragon

Yes you did, instead of asking it in the PC hardware section where there are plenty of people who can help with this sort of thing; you posted it in SW. The sole purpose of this thread is to make a cost driven argument that has no regard for features or quality, to invalidate every advantage PC has to offer the moment it goes outside of your artificially placed price limit.

I could of course be wrong, but these sort of threads are not uncommon in SW; and they are far more often than not an attempt to bash PC because it's more expensive than consoles.

So looking for a cost effective gaming solution, a web browser and tax software should be taken into consideration?
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iliatay

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#308 iliatay
Member since 2008 • 1325 Posts

[QUOTE="iliatay"]

[QUOTE="mythrol"] Back to trying to add more superficial prices to counter my argument? Are all PC elitist the same? I don't haz a argue, so I use FUD.mythrol

wut r u saying? im not adding superficial prices. how do u play ur ps3 without a tv or monitor?? please show me id love to know.

How are you gaming on a PC without a monitor? Possibly because you already own one? If you want to argue over a tv for my PS3 then obviously you'd have to purchase a monitor as well for your PC. Even more so because far more people own TV's than they do monitors.

ya and ill bet u anything that far more people have pcs than tvs nowadays. and anyways i can include a bluray rom, wireless card and a monitor on top of a gaming pc having the ability to whoop consoles graphicly in that 900 dollar price tag

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mythrol

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#309 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts

[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"] And youre trying to use the used games as the reason that console gaming is cheaper....I guess you cannot support your view through new games.... :lol:True_Gamer_

No. I'm trying to discuss the hardware issue. Software prices can vary due to any number of reasons and are irrelevant in discussing the price of hardware.

Ok so we gonna have a PC and a PS3 without games....So Ill just get a cheapo prebuilt PC at £200+£50 BR Drive.....Nice try... :lol:

Please send me the build . . .and don't forget the wifi.
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mythrol

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#310 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts

[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="iliatay"] wut r u saying? im not adding superficial prices. how do u play ur ps3 without a tv or monitor?? please show me id love to know.

iliatay

How are you gaming on a PC without a monitor? Possibly because you already own one? If you want to argue over a tv for my PS3 then obviously you'd have to purchase a monitor as well for your PC. Even more so because far more people own TV's than they do monitors.

ya and ill bet u anything that far more people have pcs than tvs nowadays. and anyways i can include a bluray rom, wireless card and a monitor on top of a gaming pc having the ability to whoop consoles graphicly in that 900 dollar price tag

Yes. For more than a console costs. I agree. PC gaming gives you the best performance. At a price.
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GTR2addict

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#311 GTR2addict
Member since 2007 • 11863 Posts
Surely you'll also need a copy of Windows to play any games. ;)Teufelhuhn
Students get windows 7 for 30$.
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Arach666

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#312 Arach666
Member since 2009 • 23285 Posts

[QUOTE="ocstew"][QUOTE="mythrol"] I've told you multiple times now, create a thread if you want to discuss the legality / morality / effects / causes / whatever of piracy and buying used games. That's not what this thread is about. Yet you're trying to use piracy as the reason PC gaming is cheaper.mythrol
Hey hello? Are you gonna respond to this? Well look who can count? I believe the PC has way more bang for buck. Can you debate that instead of setting stupid and unwinable arguments?

No, I actually agree with you that PCs would have more bang for your buck. I think everyone assumes I'm some fanboy. I am not. Like I've said multiple times (and obviously I have to keep repeating it because people are unable to comprehend) PC has it's benefits. If you count the entire back library of PC games, I think you'd have a very strong argument for more bang/buck than any console. That's not the point I'm arguing. I'm aruging that PC gaming isn't as cheap as console gaming.

Quality costs money,you know that don´t you mythrol?

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AnnoyedDragon

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#313 AnnoyedDragon
Member since 2006 • 9948 Posts

I created on system wars for two reasons:

First because you always get more answers on system wars then you do on any other section of the forum

Second: Because if the PC in question couldn't run graphics like Killzone 2 i'm pretty sure the cows would have been all over said poster

I'm actually a great supporter of the PC, I own more then 200 PC games

kolkov01

So you say...

The main problem is you chose a game that there is no means of measuring the system requirements on PC. Therefore you encouraged a SW argument, as PC gamers estimated low requirements; while console gamers attempted to blow them up to inflate the price/PS3 capability.

This thread attracts arguing; and I'm not entirely sure if that was accidental.

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#314 True_Gamer_
Member since 2006 • 6750 Posts

http://www.pixmania.gr/gr/gr/4029791/art/packard-bell/imedia-a2620-uk-aaaeee-ye.html?srcid=7255&Partenaire=skroutz&CodePromo=&aftrack=TWpJMk1EczFNakE1OzEyNjYxMDk2MDk7UGFydGVuYWlyZT1za3JvdXR6JkNvZGVQcm9tbz0= http://syncom.gr/pegasus/bin/pegweb3.dll?method=../h012/faq0011&code=6016 Nice eh?

http://technoshop.gr/product_info.php?products_id=8088

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#316 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts
[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"] And youre trying to use the used games as the reason that console gaming is cheaper....I guess you cannot support your view through new games.... :lol:True_Gamer_
Ok go to the store, look at the prices on the shelves, PC games ALL brand new, then you got a selection of used vs new console games, regardless of what is morally correct, i can get an actual hard copy and pay for it. And remember its not me ripping off the dev's its the game store, i'm a customer of the game store, if i want to buy directly from the manufacturer i have that option too.

Downloading software for free is still legal in Greece....So is ok to pirate?

Its still not a legit copy, you don't have a legit license, you won't be able to play normally online, you will have to find fixes to make it run. Its not a full legit retail copy, regardless of who you are supporting when you pay for a copy, you are getting a copy that you own and you payed for legallly. I guess if it doesn't matter if anything is moral i could go to staples, buy a pencil, go to a gunshop and stab the clerk and take the guns, go to gamestop and shoot the place and take a ps3 and all the current games. And while i'm at it i will take some body parts and sell them on the black market and preorder every game for ps3 for the next 3 years. SO I CAN GET A PS3 AT THE COST OF A PENCIL!!! This argument is about what is the cheapest gaming solutiong and the most bang for your buck. Not how you can circumvent cost, but you can make another thread about how to avoid paying for things.
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johnusabeis

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#317 johnusabeis
Member since 2004 • 2369 Posts

[QUOTE="kolkov01"]

I issue a challenge

Show me that you can build a 400$ PC that runs games as graphically amazing as Killzone 2

adamosmaki

There

Power supply-BFG 550W - $50

CPu-Athlon 2 x3 2,7 GHZ ( triple core ) - $72

Mobo-Asrock Am3 with 2 PC-X x16 slots for sli/crossfire - $60

Vga-Sapphire Ati 5670- $93 Great mainstream vga that can play most games even at 1080p

RAM-Kingston 2GB DDR3 1333 - $53

HD -250GB seagate $45

Case- Gigabyte - $27

Add $10-15 for a keyboard and mouse and you are set

much better than consoles and only $400 ( 410-420 with a KB+M )

You dont need a dvd drive just use various DD services

Youre forgeting wifi. remember thats a must here in system wars.
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iliatay

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#318 iliatay
Member since 2008 • 1325 Posts

[QUOTE="iliatay"]

[QUOTE="mythrol"] How are you gaming on a PC without a monitor? Possibly because you already own one? If you want to argue over a tv for my PS3 then obviously you'd have to purchase a monitor as well for your PC. Even more so because far more people own TV's than they do monitors.mythrol

ya and ill bet u anything that far more people have pcs than tvs nowadays. and anyways i can include a bluray rom, wireless card and a monitor on top of a gaming pc having the ability to whoop consoles graphicly in that 900 dollar price tag

Yes. For more than a console costs. I agree. PC gaming gives you the best performance. At a price.

i just proved u wrong. i can build a rig with a 1080p monitor and br drive and wifi for same or less than a ps3 + 1080p tv

dusted.

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ronvalencia

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#319 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"]

[QUOTE="kolkov01"] Please explain to me how to "pop in a vid card" in a laptop. . . Or a SFF PC that uses onboard graphics. lemaklendir02

For laptops with ExpressCard slot, refer to ViDock2. Refer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE5NmURV5P8&feature=related PS; My Sony laptop is fitted with Mobility Radeon HD 4650 GDDR3 and ExpressCard slot.

and how is a $300 attachment to install a vid card going to make it cheaper then buying a $300 console? And the 4670 isn't all that great with some newer games, see BFBC2, i have to play mine on low with a 1400x900 resolution :( otherwise it sux (this is the beta)

Beta != final release. Most console games aims for around 1280x720p. From http://www.xxxtremegamers.ca/gamers/index.php?action=printpage;topic=5165.0

BFBC2 PS3 renders at 720p.Like ATI Radeon HD 4600s, both PS3 and Xbox 360 includes 8 ROPs in thier GPUs.

Question was"explain to me how to "pop in a vid card" in a laptop". I answered with ViDock2 solution. My comment wasn't designed for price.

For price question. If the person lives in Oz and works in IT industry, the IT expense (i.e. PC) can be near zero net (up to 800 AUD) due to income tax minimisation schemes.

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mythrol

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#320 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts

[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="ocstew"] Hey hello? Are you gonna respond to this? Well look who can count? I believe the PC has way more bang for buck. Can you debate that instead of setting stupid and unwinable arguments?Arach666

No, I actually agree with you that PCs would have more bang for your buck. I think everyone assumes I'm some fanboy. I am not. Like I've said multiple times (and obviously I have to keep repeating it because people are unable to comprehend) PC has it's benefits. If you count the entire back library of PC games, I think you'd have a very strong argument for more bang/buck than any console. That's not the point I'm arguing. I'm aruging that PC gaming isn't as cheap as console gaming.

Quality costs money,you know that don´t you mythrol?

Sure does. I'm a fan of PC gaming. If anyone would like to see my build I'm currently working on:

CASE - NZXT LEXA S LEXS - 001BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower ($79.99 w/ $10 MIR) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811146060

PSU -OCZ 600W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817341017

MOBO - ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ($119.99 w/ $10 MIR) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131402

HDD - Samsung F3 500 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822152181

DVD - LG Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW ($24.99) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827136177

RAM - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600 ($84.99) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231277

CPU - AMD Phenom II X4 925 Deneb 2.8GHz ($140.99) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819103656

GPU - HIS H577FM1GD Radeon HD 5770 1GB ($162.99 + $10 off w/ Promo + $10 MIR) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814161317

COOLER - CM Hyper 212+ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835103065

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deactivated-635601fd996cc

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#321 deactivated-635601fd996cc
Member since 2009 • 4381 Posts
[QUOTE="iliatay"]

[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="iliatay"] ya and ill bet u anything that far more people have pcs than tvs nowadays. and anyways i can include a bluray rom, wireless card and a monitor on top of a gaming pc having the ability to whoop consoles graphicly in that 900 dollar price tag

Yes. For more than a console costs. I agree. PC gaming gives you the best performance. At a price.

i just proved u wrong. i can build a rig with a 1080p monitor and br drive and wifi for same or less than a ps3 + 1080p tv

dusted.

Good one
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kolkov01

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#322 kolkov01
Member since 2009 • 2350 Posts

[QUOTE="kolkov01"]

I created on system wars for two reasons:

First because you always get more answers on system wars then you do on any other section of the forum

Second: Because if the PC in question couldn't run graphics like Killzone 2 i'm pretty sure the cows would have been all over said poster

I'm actually a great supporter of the PC, I own more then 200 PC games

AnnoyedDragon

So you say...

The main problem is you chose a game that there is no means of measuring the system requirements on PC. Therefore you encouraged a SW argument, as PC gamers estimated low requirements; while console gamers attempted to blow them up to inflate the price/PS3 capability.

This thread attracts arguing; and I'm not entirely sure if that was accidental.

I know it atracts arguing. The only you can be sure of something is if you see how both sides react

I did the same when I wanted to learn more about the MAC's and I learned a lot thanks to that thread

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True_Gamer_

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#323 True_Gamer_
Member since 2006 • 6750 Posts
[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] Ok go to the store, look at the prices on the shelves, PC games ALL brand new, then you got a selection of used vs new console games, regardless of what is morally correct, i can get an actual hard copy and pay for it. And remember its not me ripping off the dev's its the game store, i'm a customer of the game store, if i want to buy directly from the manufacturer i have that option too.savagetwinkie
Downloading software for free is still legal in Greece....So is ok to pirate?

Its still not a legit copy, you don't have a legit license, you won't be able to play normally online, you will have to find fixes to make it run. Its not a full legit retail copy, regardless of who you are supporting when you pay for a copy, you are getting a copy that you own and you payed for legallly. I guess if it doesn't matter if anything is moral i could go to staples, buy a pencil, go to a gunshop and stab the clerk and take the guns, go to gamestop and shoot the place and take a ps3 and all the current games. And while i'm at it i will take some body parts and sell them on the black market and preorder every game for ps3 for the next 3 years. SO I CAN GET A PS3 AT THE COST OF A PENCIL!!! This argument is about what is the cheapest gaming solutiong and the most bang for your buck. Not how you can circumvent cost, but you can make another thread about how to avoid paying for things.

My point is simple: If buying used games (stealing from devs) is ok because its legal. Downloading games for free is ok as long as its legal. Thus if one is putting forward the used games as to justify the cost of console gaming Ill use the free downloading as teh benefit of PC gaming. Both are stealing from devs, both are legal in Greece. Killing people is illegal.
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savagetwinkie

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#325 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts
[QUOTE="iliatay"]

[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="iliatay"] ya and ill bet u anything that far more people have pcs than tvs nowadays. and anyways i can include a bluray rom, wireless card and a monitor on top of a gaming pc having the ability to whoop consoles graphicly in that 900 dollar price tag

Yes. For more than a console costs. I agree. PC gaming gives you the best performance. At a price.

i just proved u wrong. i can build a rig with a 1080p monitor and br drive and wifi for same or less than a ps3 + 1080p tv

dusted.

you have to take out the cost of a tv/monitor, that could be considered constant for both, my 32in lcd has my gaming pc and 360 hooked up to it, so just look at the system itself. Otherwise you need to tak into account you have a much much much better Tv vs the monitor.
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iliatay

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#326 iliatay
Member since 2008 • 1325 Posts

[QUOTE="iliatay"]

[QUOTE="mythrol"] Yes. For more than a console costs. I agree. PC gaming gives you the best performance. At a price.mythrol

i just proved u wrong. i can build a rig with a 1080p monitor and br drive and wifi for same or less than a ps3 + 1080p tv

dusted.

Your logic is absolutely. . .and I mean no disrespect. . . idiotic.

coming from u thats a compliment. in what way is it idiotic?

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AnnoyedDragon

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#327 AnnoyedDragon
Member since 2006 • 9948 Posts

The only you can be sure of something is if you see how both sides reactkolkov01

Sure of what exactly? If you specified a game that was actually on PC; people would have been able to quickly give you exact specifications to run that game. With Killzone 2 it is permanently left in the air, resulting in nothing but continuous arguing.

What was it you wanted to be sure about?

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mythrol

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#328 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts

[QUOTE="mythrol"][QUOTE="iliatay"] i just proved u wrong. i can build a rig with a 1080p monitor and br drive and wifi for same or less than a ps3 + 1080p tv

dusted.

iliatay

Your logic is absolutely. . .and I mean no disrespect. . . idiotic.

coming from u thats a compliment. in what way is it idiotic?

You're adding the cost of the price of a TV to the PS3; I assume that's because you can't compete at the PS3's price point. Which is my entire argument.
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Munasha

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#329 Munasha
Member since 2004 • 459 Posts
Can a Video card be too powerful for some computers?????
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iliatay

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#330 iliatay
Member since 2008 • 1325 Posts

[QUOTE="iliatay"]

[QUOTE="mythrol"] Yes. For more than a console costs. I agree. PC gaming gives you the best performance. At a price.savagetwinkie

i just proved u wrong. i can build a rig with a 1080p monitor and br drive and wifi for same or less than a ps3 + 1080p tv

dusted.

you have to take out the cost of a tv/monitor, that could be considered constant for both, my 32in lcd has my gaming pc and 360 hooked up to it, so just look at the system itself. Otherwise you need to tak into account you have a much much much better Tv vs the monitor.

hes boasting about bluray and hi-def so it must be 1080p. u not being able to afford a monitor for ur pc is not my problem... and monitors are meant for PC and tvs are meant for CONSOLES and typically thats how it is setup primarily.

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mythrol

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#331 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts
[QUOTE="True_Gamer_"] My point is simple: If buying used games (stealing from devs) is ok because its legal. Downloading games for free is ok as long as its legal. Thus if one is putting forward the used games as to justify the cost of console gaming Ill use the free downloading as teh benefit of PC gaming. Both are stealing from devs, both are legal in Greece. Killing people is illegal.

I was unaware that this was a Grecian ran gaming website. The large majority of the people who use this site are not from a country where piracy is legal. Yet used games are.
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savagetwinkie

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#332 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts
[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="True_Gamer_"] Downloading software for free is still legal in Greece....So is ok to pirate?True_Gamer_
Its still not a legit copy, you don't have a legit license, you won't be able to play normally online, you will have to find fixes to make it run. Its not a full legit retail copy, regardless of who you are supporting when you pay for a copy, you are getting a copy that you own and you payed for legallly. I guess if it doesn't matter if anything is moral i could go to staples, buy a pencil, go to a gunshop and stab the clerk and take the guns, go to gamestop and shoot the place and take a ps3 and all the current games. And while i'm at it i will take some body parts and sell them on the black market and preorder every game for ps3 for the next 3 years. SO I CAN GET A PS3 AT THE COST OF A PENCIL!!! This argument is about what is the cheapest gaming solutiong and the most bang for your buck. Not how you can circumvent cost, but you can make another thread about how to avoid paying for things.

My point is simple: If buying used games (stealing from devs) is ok because its legal. Downloading games for free is ok as long as its legal. Thus if one is putting forward the used games as to justify the cost of console gaming Ill use the free downloading as teh benefit of PC gaming. Both are stealing from devs, both are legal in Greece. Killing people is illegal.

I'm not arguing legal or moral, i'm just saying people are argueing over costs so you have to assume they are going to make a purchase. Any way, used games isn't stealing, copying a game is. Every hard copy that is out on the shelves or at home the dev's do see that money, eventually dev's will get less and less from the console market because used games will eventually pile up but from the pc market they'll be a huge chunk just missing. No one has to buy a copy in pirating, and the more people that have legit copies can buy DLC which a pirated copy needs... pirated DLC. If you want to support dev's you'll buy new, if not then don't but to get a copy you do have to buy one. There used to be a used game selection of PC games, until they realized that was even worse since you could just buy a game take the key copy the cd and try and return it, or exchange it and get multiple keys, no one makes any money off of pirating. Owning a legit copy dev's and retailers profit.
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kolkov01

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#333 kolkov01
Member since 2009 • 2350 Posts

[QUOTE="kolkov01"]The only you can be sure of something is if you see how both sides reactAnnoyedDragon

Sure of what exactly? If you specified a game that was actually on PC; people would have been able to quickly give you exact specifications to run that game. With Killzone 2 it is permanently left in the air, resulting in nothing but continuous arguing.

What was it you wanted to be sure about?

there are no second intentions in this thread. I want to know if it is possible to create a PC that will run a Killzone 2 level of graphics with a 400$ budget. I know it's ambiguous but that's all I want to know. If i ask this on a PC forum I'm pretty sure most people will just assume that any old build will be enough If I ask this on the PS3 forum then all I'll hear is that the Cell is made of technology that you simply can't find on the PC If I ask on the this forum both sides will clash and you get to see what does the middle look like I don't know what are you trying to get at, I mean if you don't want to see people arguing their videogame systems then go to system wars?
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AnnoyedDragon

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#334 AnnoyedDragon
Member since 2006 • 9948 Posts

Can a Video card be too powerful for some computers?????Munasha

Yes, that's called being bottlenecked.

A GPU still requires the CPU in order to complete it's work, if the CPU is very weak; then the GPU is not running at its full capability.

It happened to me years ago when I had a 7900GT and a 2ghz single core processor, when I upgraded to a 2.8ghz dual core I received a significant boost in graphical performance.

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kolkov01

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#335 kolkov01
Member since 2009 • 2350 Posts

[QUOTE="Munasha"]Can a Video card be too powerful for some computers?????AnnoyedDragon

Yes, that's called being bottlenecked.

A GPU still requires the CPU in order to complete it's work, if the CPU is very weak; then the GPU is not running at its full capability.

It happened to me years ago when I had a 7900GT and a 2ghz single core processor, when I upgraded to a 2.8ghz dual core I received a significant boost in graphical performance.

Happened to me when I had a P4.... 1.5 I believe and I had just bought an Nvidia 6800GT
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windsquid9000

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#336 windsquid9000
Member since 2009 • 3206 Posts
[QUOTE="iliatay"]

[QUOTE="mythrol"] Your logic is absolutely. . .and I mean no disrespect. . . idiotic.mythrol

coming from u thats a compliment. in what way is it idiotic?

You're adding the cost of the price of a TV to the PS3; I assume that's because you can't compete at the PS3's price point. Which is my entire argument.

You know that there's more holes in your argument than pores on the human body, right?
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mythrol

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#337 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="iliatay"] i just proved u wrong. i can build a rig with a 1080p monitor and br drive and wifi for same or less than a ps3 + 1080p tv

dusted.

iliatay

you have to take out the cost of a tv/monitor, that could be considered constant for both, my 32in lcd has my gaming pc and 360 hooked up to it, so just look at the system itself. Otherwise you need to tak into account you have a much much much better Tv vs the monitor.

hes boasting about bluray and hi-def so it must be 1080p. u not being able to afford a monitor for ur pc is not my problem... and monitors are meant for PC and tvs are meant for CONSOLES and typically thats how it is setup primarily.

Where did I ever use the term Hi-def???? PLEASE POST IT! I talked about Blu-Ray because the PS3 gives you a Blu-Ray AND wifi for only $299. I wasn't aware that Blu-Rays only worked at 1080p. I wasn't aware that I was FORCED into buying a $600 tv to use my PS3. You need a monitor/tv for both. They are interchangeable and hence the price of one is irrelevant in this discussion. However you are trying to push the monitor issue because without artificially inflating the price of the PS3 you simply CAN'T COMPETE. You have no argument without trying to adjust the price of the PS3 because at it's current price point it's cheaper than a comparable PC. Period. /thread. Or as you say: dusted.
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savagetwinkie

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#338 savagetwinkie
Member since 2008 • 7981 Posts
[QUOTE="iliatay"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="iliatay"] i just proved u wrong. i can build a rig with a 1080p monitor and br drive and wifi for same or less than a ps3 + 1080p tv

dusted.

you have to take out the cost of a tv/monitor, that could be considered constant for both, my 32in lcd has my gaming pc and 360 hooked up to it, so just look at the system itself. Otherwise you need to tak into account you have a much much much better Tv vs the monitor.

hes boasting about bluray and hi-def so it must be 1080p. u not being able to afford a monitor for ur pc is not my problem... and monitors are meant for PC and tvs are meant for CONSOLES and typically thats how it is setup primarily.

i have a monitor for my pc, 22" samsung, but thats not the point, the monitor is an external and seperate part, its not part of the system, if i HAVE to buy a 42"lcd 1080p capable for a ps3 then why does that standard change when going to a PC, if this is a MUST for 1080p and blu ray, then that is a must across BOTH systems and can be excluded in the price because it will be the same.
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mythrol

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#339 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts
You know that there's more holes in your argument than pores on the human body, right? windsquid9000
Surely you have more to add to this discussion than insightful quips.
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Munasha

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#340 Munasha
Member since 2004 • 459 Posts

[QUOTE="Munasha"]Can a Video card be too powerful for some computers?????AnnoyedDragon

Yes, that's called being bottlenecked.

A GPU still requires the CPU in order to complete it's work, if the CPU is very weak; then the GPU is not running at its full capability.

It happened to me years ago when I had a 7900GT and a 2ghz single core processor, when I upgraded to a 2.8ghz dual core I received a significant boost in graphical performance.

But can the GPU damage anything..also if I buy a regular pc for $500 with a Dual-Core AMD Athlon x2 i just add a new GPU and that it???wil i need a new power supply or anything
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AnnoyedDragon

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#341 AnnoyedDragon
Member since 2006 • 9948 Posts

there are no second intentions in this thread. I want to know if it is possible to create a PC that will run a Killzone 2 level of graphics with a 400$ budget. I know it's ambiguous but that's all I want to know. If i ask this on a PC forum I'm pretty sure most people will just assume that any old build will be enough If I ask this on the PS3 forum then all I'll hear is that the Cell is made of technology that you simply can't find on the PC If I ask on the this forum both sides will clash and you get to see what does the middle look like I don't know what are you trying to get at, I mean if you don't want to see people arguing their videogame systems then go to system wars?kolkov01

Remember you responded to me when I told mythrol that the blame wasn't a one way street. He was criticising the PC gamers claiming you could make a gaming PC at console prices, I simply pointed out the thread itself was challenging PC gamers, it wasn't a PC gamer gloating about being able to build at console prices; but someone challenging PC gamers about it.

In other words saying PC gamers aren't the sole source of blame.

I questioned your intentions because you then appeared defending your reasons for creating this thread. Prior to your responses; for all I knew you were a consolite out to bash PC, as I suggested with my first response to you.

But can the GPU damage anything..also if I buy a regular pc for $500 with a Dual-Core AMD Athlon x2 i just add a new GPU and that it???wil i need a new power supply or anythingMunasha

These are questions for the PC hardware section, this isn't the place to be discussing those sort of details.

Feel free to go over there and ask.

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mythrol

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#343 mythrol
Member since 2005 • 5237 Posts
[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="Munasha"]Can a Video card be too powerful for some computers?????Munasha

Yes, that's called being bottlenecked.

A GPU still requires the CPU in order to complete it's work, if the CPU is very weak; then the GPU is not running at its full capability.

It happened to me years ago when I had a 7900GT and a 2ghz single core processor, when I upgraded to a 2.8ghz dual core I received a significant boost in graphical performance.

But can the GPU damage anything..also if I buy a regular pc for $500 with a Dual-Core AMD Athlon x2 i just add a new GPU and that it???wil i need a new power supply or anything

If you're willing to spend $500 on a PC and then add a GPU I suggest you look at the build I posted. It comes in at right aroun $700 and will give you a great system, with a good upgrade path, and even the ability to crossfire (run dual gpus) later on if you so choose.
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iliatay

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#344 iliatay
Member since 2008 • 1325 Posts

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="Munasha"]Can a Video card be too powerful for some computers?????Munasha

Yes, that's called being bottlenecked.

A GPU still requires the CPU in order to complete it's work, if the CPU is very weak; then the GPU is not running at its full capability.

It happened to me years ago when I had a 7900GT and a 2ghz single core processor, when I upgraded to a 2.8ghz dual core I received a significant boost in graphical performance.

But can the GPU damage anything..also if I buy a regular pc for $500 with a Dual-Core AMD Athlon x2 i just add a new GPU and that it???wil i need a new power supply or anything

that depends on the psu in that pc and the gpu consumption of that card. if u want more help u can check out the pc hardware discussion threads, theyll help u out alot.

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kolkov01

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#345 kolkov01
Member since 2009 • 2350 Posts

Remember you responded to me when I told mythrol that the blame wasn't a one way street. He was criticising the PC gamers claiming you could make a gaming PC at console prices, I simply pointed out the thread itself was challenging PC gamers, it wasn't a PC gamer gloating about being able to build at console prices; but someone challenging PC gamers about it.AnnoyedDragon

Yes, but It wasn't with the intent of owning anyone. I simply want to know if you can attain a certain level of graphical quality given a 400$ budget

In other words saying PC gamers aren't the sole source of blame.AnnoyedDragon
You lost me there, When did I blame anyone :?

I questioned your intentions because you then appeared defending your reasons for creating this thread. Prior to your responses; for all I knew you were a consolite out to bash PC, as I suggested with my first response to you.AnnoyedDragon

I know, this is system wars, so such suspicions are understandable. Which is why I stepped up and answered you in an attempt to clear my name.

I'm a 360/PC gamer. and I own more PC games then I do for any other system

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adamosmaki

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#346 adamosmaki
Member since 2007 • 10718 Posts

[QUOTE="adamosmaki"]

[QUOTE="kolkov01"]

I issue a challenge

Show me that you can build a 400$ PC that runs games as graphically amazing as Killzone 2

lemaklendir02

There

Power supply-BFG 550W - $50

CPu-Athlon 2 x3 2,7 GHZ ( triple core ) - $72

Mobo-Asrock Am3 with 2 PC-X x16 slots for sli/crossfire - $60

Vga-Sapphire Ati 5670- $93 Great mainstream vga that can play most games even at 1080p

RAM-Kingston 2GB DDR3 1333 - $53

HD -250GB seagate $45

Case- Gigabyte - $27

Add $10-15 for a keyboard and mouse and you are set

much better than consoles and only $400 ( 410-420 with a KB+M )

You dont need a dvd drive just use various DD services

you push to hard man....

playing today pc games at 1080p with 5670.... :))

it struggle playing crysis at 720p

Actually that 5670 can run 9 out of 10 games at 1080p with at least 30fps if not more and although playing Crysis at 1080p with that card and high settings is not possible you can still play it at 720p with all high settings with that card Let alone games like mass effect 2 and Left4dead 2 that card can run them at 1080p and 60fps
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ronvalencia

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#347 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="kolkov01"]The only you can be sure of something is if you see how both sides reactkolkov01

Sure of what exactly? If you specified a game that was actually on PC; people would have been able to quickly give you exact specifications to run that game. With Killzone 2 it is permanently left in the air, resulting in nothing but continuous arguing.

What was it you wanted to be sure about?

there are no second intentions in this thread. I want to know if it is possible to create a PC that will run a Killzone 2 level of graphics with a 400$ budget. I know it's ambiguous but that's all I want to know. If i ask this on a PC forum I'm pretty sure most people will just assume that any old build will be enough If I ask this on the PS3 forum then all I'll hear is that the Cell is made of technology that you simply can't find on the PC If I ask on the this forum both sides will clash and you get to see what does the middle look like I don't know what are you trying to get at, I mean if you don't want to see people arguing their videogame systems then go to system wars?

1. Killzone 2 doesn't run on non-PS3 hardware. We know KZ2's deferred render lights methods are efficient. Refer to http://www.develop-online.net/features/407/BUILD-Defered-rendering

"Because you project your lights into the scene as a post-process, you're not lighting any pixels that are hidden behind any other pixels," says Jan-Bart van Beek, art and animation director at Guerilla, describing one of the advantages that convinced the studio make the early decision to use deferred rendering in Killzone 2"

For efficient lighting, Crysis 2 (CryEngine3) also uses deferred rendering method. Crysis PC uses brute force method i.e. not very efficient, hence why you don't see Crysis (CryEngine2) on consoles. Same console constrains and similar rendering methods.

2. The proper benchmark practise is to have common benchmarking applications e.g. refer to industry standard SPECINT or SPECFP benchmark practises. Dissimilar art content leads subjective viewpoints.

3. Wait for Crysis 2 or use good multiplatform games for benchmarking.

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deactivated-61cc564148ef4

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#348 deactivated-61cc564148ef4
Member since 2007 • 10909 Posts

Also, you are forgetting the fact that on a PC you can type and make word documents, make websites, actually do heaps of things other then gaming.

PS. STALKER IS NOT GRAPHICALLY SPECTACULAR. Ive seen many games on console that are better. STALKER is a good game but not for graphics. Use Crysis as a PC example. That was released 2007

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04dcarraher

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#349 04dcarraher  Online
Member since 2004 • 23858 Posts
People tend to forget that when these consoles came out they were above $500. Then as the years went by and costs of making the older tech got cheaper so did the consoles. But a New Pc is a new Pc, not something designed back in late 2004 with 2004/2005 year hardware limits. For as much as most people spent on the new consoles someone now can buy or build a $500-$600 Pc thats 2x-6x better then what the consoles can provide graphically. Then also people tend to forget that Pc's arent just for gaming which alot ignore that fact.
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deactivated-61cc564148ef4

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#350 deactivated-61cc564148ef4
Member since 2007 • 10909 Posts

People tend to forget that when these consoles came out they were above $500. Then as the years went by and costs of making the older tech got cheaper so did the consoles. But a New Pc is a new Pc, not something designed back in late 2004 with 2004/2005 year hardware limits. For as much as most people spent on the new consoles someone now can buy or build a $500-$600 Pc thats 2x-6x better then what the consoles can provide graphically. Then also people tend to forget that Pc's arent just for gaming which alot ignore that fact. 04dcarraher

Exactly what I said before. PC can do more than just gaming.