Is online cheating such a bad thing?

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"] I think what matters is that most people playing have a good time and sometimes even when you play fair you don't get that.KGB32

If they don't have a good time playing fairly, then either they find a game where they do have a good time playing fairly, or they shouldn't play at all.

yes, yes, YES Shad! this is the very reason why most people cheat. they think :" well...i suck at this game... *goes to internet to find any hacks/cheats/mods" YAY i don't suck anymore!! *insert cheat here* makes this the best game ever!!...."

Well every different game you play online usually has a different level of competitive players. So what level of competitiveness determines this of not being able to play online?Sonwhy

If any player in a competitive online game ever finds themselves thinking that the other guy who is better than them should "lighten up" and show some mercy to allow them to have fun, that is the sign that they need to stay offline. Don't show up for a competition if you're not a competitor. Basically, if you don't find competing fun, why bother playing competitive games? If anyone plays a competitive game, finds the competition is too tough, and turn to cheating to win and have more fun, then they are an immature petulant loser.

How can one even justify online cheating as a remotely positive activity?

People who have no skills in games having to rely on external help, in this case softwares that are designed to win, to win, is just totally contradictory and make themselves look bad. They shouldn't even play games.

Online cheating is without a doubt a bad thing, and most definitely does ruin the game for people.bleehum

[QUOTE="KGB32"]

[QUOTE="Shad0ki11"]

If they don't have a good time playing fairly, then either they find a game where they do have a good time playing fairly, or they shouldn't play at all.

Sonwhy

yes, yes, YES Shad! this is the very reason why most people cheat. they think :" well...i suck at this game... *goes to internet to find any hacks/cheats/mods" YAY i don't suck anymore!! *insert cheat here* makes this the best game ever!!...."

How can one even justify online cheating as a remotely positive activity?

People who have no skills in games having to rely on external help, in this case softwares that are designed to win, to win, is just totally contradictory and make themselves look bad. They shouldn't even play games.

PSdual_wielder

[QUOTE="ViewtifulScott"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]Just because I pick a side doesn't mean that I'm for that side try to look at it from a lawyers point of view except there is no money involved. Sonwhy

If you were a lawyer, and this was a court case you were arguing, you'd be laughed out of the court, because you failed miserably.

They cheat/hack because they aren't good at the game they are playing and they aren't having any fun, so they feel like they need to make everyone else feel the same way by draining the fun out of it all.

Isn't it an unfair advantage of the game to keep the same teams when one team is dominating and the other isn't when the next game rolls around even if the players are playing in groups? Sonwhy

[QUOTE="The__Havoc"]

Cheaters should be banned from PSN/XBLA whatever. Accounts banned/terminated and if its on PC CD keys as well. Not only this your game should be deactivated from online usage at all like how Blizzard does.

Cheating is stupid. That's why its called cheating. People like that shouldn't even have the right to play the game and yes the box's and instructions do say that as cheating is altering the game.

I have no sympthathy for anyone who seeks an unfair advantage or just can't handle losing. Quite frankly its why I detest baseball as of late.

Sonwhy

What are you talking about? Its the same game its always been? Steroids have changed the game greatly and they have ruined the integrity of the game. Small market and big market teams have always existed that is called business. You think its fair that Sony and MS have more $$$ then Nintendo? But does Nintendo still win? Yes they do. Saying that all teams should have equal revenue over elimination of steroids is insane. Things like the economy will not allow what you say to happen. Sports are a business after all. Cheating your body with unnatural things is cheating.

Cheaters have no place in the world to me.

[QUOTE="ViewtifulScott"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]Just because I pick a side doesn't mean that I'm for that side try to look at it from a lawyers point of view except there is no money involved. Sonwhy

If you were a lawyer, and this was a court case you were arguing, you'd be laughed out of the court, because you failed miserably.

That seem logical to you, anyway. Everyone else is confused why you are the only one who doesn't notice the 800lb gorilla in the room. That gorilla's name is common sense, he would like to have a word with you.

This is what sucks about the 360 online system. You can basically register yourself as a person who plays games fair and square or a person who does everything from glitch abuse to cheating just to get a win (they call it underground), but the system does nothing to seperate the two groups.

It should be where Underground people can only play with themselves. If you wanna cheat and be a glitch rapist, that's cool but there should be a way where people who don't want that will never ever come across you. If you play underground style but you register as something else, they should ban you from Live.

[QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

How can one even justify online cheating as a remotely positive activity?

People who have no skills in games having to rely on external help, in this case softwares that are designed to win, to win, is just totally contradictory and make themselves look bad. They shouldn't even play games.

Sonwhy

Why don't they demonstrate those skills then instead of making an a-hole out of themselves?

[QUOTE="ViewtifulScott"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]Just because I pick a side doesn't mean that I'm for that side try to look at it from a lawyers point of view except there is no money involved. Sonwhy

If you were a lawyer, and this was a court case you were arguing, you'd be laughed out of the court, because you failed miserably.

what about those who pay to play online?? (which, to be technical..., if you're playing games using the internet, you ARE paying regardless if the online service is free, like paying for your ISP, but i am also talking about those who pay for MMOs and Xbox Live) it's a terrible feeling to pay for those services and within the first few matches you play someone is using some aim bot. how is THAT justifiable??

Look if you suck at a game then you practice at it until you are good. You don't hack into the game and cheat and ruin EVERYONE'S experience. TC you need to mature a little before making these threads.

Mutt523

[QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

How can one even justify online cheating as a remotely positive activity?

People who have no skills in games having to rely on external help, in this case softwares that are designed to win, to win, is just totally contradictory and make themselves look bad. They shouldn't even play games.

Sonwhy

Relying on cheats/hacks is the definition of having no skill. Hacks/cheats are meant to eliminate the need for skill.

Isn't it an unfair advantage of the game to keep the same teams when one team is dominating and the other isn't when the next game rolls around even if the players are playing in groups? Sonwhy

Oh I'd love to walk down into the city and see this. Sonwhy telling 5 guys that they have to get off the basketball court because they keep winning and its unfair that since they keep winning they don't have to stop holding the court lol.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"][QUOTE="ViewtifulScott"]

If you were a lawyer, and this was a court case you were arguing, you'd be laughed out of the court, because you failed miserably.

KGB32

what about those who pay to play online?? (which, to be technical..., if you're playing games using the internet, you ARE paying regardless if the online service is free, like paying for your ISP, but i am also talking about those who pay for MMOs and Xbox Live) it's a terrible feeling to pay for those services and within the first few matches you play someone is using some aim bot. how is THAT justifiable??

[QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

How can one even justify online cheating as a remotely positive activity?

People who have no skills in games having to rely on external help, in this case softwares that are designed to win, to win, is just totally contradictory and make themselves look bad. They shouldn't even play games.

Sonwhy

It's equivalent to a baseball player who get's struck out all the time letting a steroid popping mountain of muscles hit for him, and him taking all the credit for it as if he actually accomplished anything, Does the baseball player in my example have any skill, in your opinion?

[QUOTE="Mutt523"]

Look if you suck at a game then you practice at it until you are good. You don't hack into the game and cheat and ruin EVERYONE'S experience. TC you need to mature a little before making these threads.

Sonwhy

In online gaming, no matter what game you play, there will always be someone better than you, but that doesn't mean that you aren't better than anyone else.

Yes it is horrible.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"] Isn't it an unfair advantage of the game to keep the same teams when one team is dominating and the other isn't when the next game rolls around even if the players are playing in groups? The__Havoc

Oh I'd love to walk down into the city and see this. Sonwhy telling 5 guys that they have to get off the basketball court because they keep winning and its unfair that since they keep winning they don't have to stop holding the court lol.

Look if you suck at a game then you practice at it until you are good. You don't hack into the game and cheat and ruin EVERYONE'S experience. TC you need to mature a little before making these threads.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"] Isn't it an unfair advantage of the game to keep the same teams when one team is dominating and the other isn't when the next game rolls around even if the players are playing in groups? The__Havoc

Oh I'd love to walk down into the city and see this. Sonwhy telling 5 guys that they have to get off the basketball court because they keep winning and its unfair that since they keep winning they don't have to stop holding the court lol.

Its annoying, but I wouldnt call it... bad.

[QUOTE="bleehum"] Online cheating is without a doubt a bad thing, and most definitely does ruin the game for people.Sonwhy

If you can't handle the competition, leave the game. You don't have a right to win, you don't even have the right to have fun. The people competing and beating you are not purposefully ruining the game for you, but when you cheat, you DO in fact purposefully ruin the game for them under the misguided idea that you have a right to have fun. You don't. Here is a hint, if a game isn't fun for any reason, sell it and buy a different game. This gaming stuff? It's a hobby. Seriously.

[QUOTE="KGB32"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"] I doubt that there are much worse lawyers out there trying to argue their points than me but then again everyone has their own opinion. At least I've mentioned some points that seem logical on why cheaters would cheat online after my own playing experiences. Sonwhy

what about those who pay to play online?? (which, to be technical..., if you're playing games using the internet, you ARE paying regardless if the online service is free, like paying for your ISP, but i am also talking about those who pay for MMOs and Xbox Live) it's a terrible feeling to pay for those services and within the first few matches you play someone is using some aim bot. how is THAT justifiable??

how is 50 bucks a year (that's XBL annually) ON TOP of your ISP bill "tons of money"? and speaking of "paying as little as possible by getting a PS3 for starters", how the hell am i supposed to do that when the PS3 is the most expensive system out there? and you still haven't answered how paying money for online just to be the vicitim of cheating when cheating is blatantly shunned all across any online games.

This is what sucks about the 360 online system. You can basically register yourself as a person who plays games fair and square or a person who does everything from glitch abuse to cheating just to get a win (they call it underground), but the system does nothing to seperate the two groups.

It should be where Underground people can only play with themselves. If you wanna cheat and be a glitch rapist, that's cool but there should be a way where people who don't want that will never ever come across you. If you play underground style but you register as something else, they should ban you from Live.

Senor_Kami

[QUOTE="The__Havoc"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"] Isn't it an unfair advantage of the game to keep the same teams when one team is dominating and the other isn't when the next game rolls around even if the players are playing in groups? Sonwhy

Oh I'd love to walk down into the city and see this. Sonwhy telling 5 guys that they have to get off the basketball court because they keep winning and its unfair that since they keep winning they don't have to stop holding the court lol.

What does the sport of gold and etiquette have to do with anything I just said? And what you are saying is more of a safety precaution then anything.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"][QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

How can one even justify online cheating as a remotely positive activity?

People who have no skills in games having to rely on external help, in this case softwares that are designed to win, to win, is just totally contradictory and make themselves look bad. They shouldn't even play games.

PSdual_wielder

Why don't they demonstrate those skills then instead of making an a-hole out of themselves?

Just because they rely on external help doesn't mean they have no skill.Sonwhy

Why don't they demonstrate those skills then instead of making an a-hole out of themselves?

I bring this up because I know and have played with some online cheaters out there and usually I don't consider it to be so bad. What I do consider to be a bad thing is when you can't host your own games and the competition comes out to be way too unfair for your team when you are playing fair. In other words when lots of people cheat while playing an online game I don't consider it to be necessarily the players/cheaters fault but rather the company that designed the game to begin with. Especially when you can't even pick and choose the games that you would or would not want to play in let alone have a fair match making system. Which I think to a certain degree a fair match making system would include how many people in your party can join a game with you and making the teams equal based on kill death ratio first then followed mission points after that. I think that some people get online purely for fun just as myself and when I get online I don't like playing against a group of 4 or 5 plus people that play all the time together even if there are 15 or 16 other people playing in the same game. Maybe I just want to play against people that play be themselves or people that play with one other person. Also, maybe I don't like it when certain parts of the map get stuck for my team. In other words maybe its not the cheaters fault in the first place for cheating when they want to be able to enjoy their game more when they play online which I think is understandable to a certain degree. If you get online and your constantly being dominated by another team or you can't even move around the map as much as you would like then its unfair to a certain degree to the other team thus providing cheating as a motive in this case to make things more even hell you can even end the game and start from scratch seeing as the teams are unfair as it is In other words if the online cheating is such a big deal than online matchmaking should be made with much more in depth detail than what currently exist for games such as cod4 and should no longer be treated as a mere add on to a game.Sonwhy

THIS.... is the problem with society...

It's like having something stolen from you.... and someone says it's your fault for not locking it up.

Or I punch someone in the face and the judge blames the person I hit for not having his face out of the way of my fist.

I suppose its the devs fault that people download their games from the internet too, right?

Cheaters are losers that have no skill.

Cheaters should be banned from what ever service they are using on the first offence no questions asked. There is no justifying cheating. Cheaters are pathetic insecure losers who have to use unfair means to feel good about themselves.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"][QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

How can one even justify online cheating as a remotely positive activity?

People who have no skills in games having to rely on external help, in this case softwares that are designed to win, to win, is just totally contradictory and make themselves look bad. They shouldn't even play games.

ViewtifulScott

It's equivalent to a baseball player who get's struck out all the time letting a steroid popping mountain of muscles hit for him, and him taking all the credit for it as if he actually accomplished anything, Does the baseball player in my example have any skill, in your opinion?

[QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"] Just because they rely on external help doesn't mean they have no skill.Sonwhy

Why don't they demonstrate those skills then instead of making an a-hole out of themselves?

Am I reading this wrong or are you saying demonstrating actual skills consistently is BS?

i think the people that only play to win are worse then cheaters. pick your favorite care not the one thats the fastest. dont just throw grandes in a shooter come out and fight like the other team.bayareahusla

If you aren't playing to win, then why the hell are you playing a competitive game in the first place? Are you competing for second place? Does a boxer show up for a match with the intention of losing a close bout? Does a baseball team set it's goal as being the third or fourth place team in their division? NO. They play to win. If you aren't playing to win, then stick to playing games one on one with similarly skilled friends and stay out of the broader competitive pool, and stop whining because you aren't as good at the game. People are going to be better than you at a lot fo things in life, get used to it.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]I bring this up because I know and have played with some online cheaters out there and usually I don't consider it to be so bad. What I do consider to be a bad thing is when you can't host your own games and the competition comes out to be way too unfair for your team when you are playing fair. In other words when lots of people cheat while playing an online game I don't consider it to be necessarily the players/cheaters fault but rather the company that designed the game to begin with. Especially when you can't even pick and choose the games that you would or would not want to play in let alone have a fair match making system. Which I think to a certain degree a fair match making system would include how many people in your party can join a game with you and making the teams equal based on kill death ratio first then followed mission points after that. I think that some people get online purely for fun just as myself and when I get online I don't like playing against a group of 4 or 5 plus people that play all the time together even if there are 15 or 16 other people playing in the same game. Maybe I just want to play against people that play be themselves or people that play with one other person. Also, maybe I don't like it when certain parts of the map get stuck for my team. In other words maybe its not the cheaters fault in the first place for cheating when they want to be able to enjoy their game more when they play online which I think is understandable to a certain degree. If you get online and your constantly being dominated by another team or you can't even move around the map as much as you would like then its unfair to a certain degree to the other team thus providing cheating as a motive in this case to make things more even hell you can even end the game and start from scratch seeing as the teams are unfair as it is In other words if the online cheating is such a big deal than online matchmaking should be made with much more in depth detail than what currently exist for games such as cod4 and should no longer be treated as a mere add on to a game.whatisazerg

THIS.... is the problem with society...

It's like having something stolen from you.... and someone says it's your fault for not locking it up.

Or I punch someone in the face and the judge blames the person I hit for not having his face out of the way of my fist.

I suppose its the devs fault that people download their games from the internet too, right?

Cheaters are losers that have no skill.

[QUOTE="ViewtifulScott"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"] Just because they rely on external help doesn't mean they have no skill.Sonwhy

It's equivalent to a baseball player who get's struck out all the time letting a steroid popping mountain of muscles hit for him, and him taking all the credit for it as if he actually accomplished anything, Does the baseball player in my example have any skill, in your opinion?

You didn't answer my question.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"][QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

Why don't they demonstrate those skills then instead of making an a-hole out of themselves?

PSdual_wielder

Am I reading this wrong or are you saying demonstrating actual skills consistently is BS?

[QUOTE="whatisazerg"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]I bring this up because I know and have played with some online cheaters out there and usually I don't consider it to be so bad. What I do consider to be a bad thing is when you can't host your own games and the competition comes out to be way too unfair for your team when you are playing fair. In other words when lots of people cheat while playing an online game I don't consider it to be necessarily the players/cheaters fault but rather the company that designed the game to begin with. Especially when you can't even pick and choose the games that you would or would not want to play in let alone have a fair match making system. Which I think to a certain degree a fair match making system would include how many people in your party can join a game with you and making the teams equal based on kill death ratio first then followed mission points after that. I think that some people get online purely for fun just as myself and when I get online I don't like playing against a group of 4 or 5 plus people that play all the time together even if there are 15 or 16 other people playing in the same game. Maybe I just want to play against people that play be themselves or people that play with one other person. Also, maybe I don't like it when certain parts of the map get stuck for my team. In other words maybe its not the cheaters fault in the first place for cheating when they want to be able to enjoy their game more when they play online which I think is understandable to a certain degree. If you get online and your constantly being dominated by another team or you can't even move around the map as much as you would like then its unfair to a certain degree to the other team thus providing cheating as a motive in this case to make things more even hell you can even end the game and start from scratch seeing as the teams are unfair as it is In other words if the online cheating is such a big deal than online matchmaking should be made with much more in depth detail than what currently exist for games such as cod4 and should no longer be treated as a mere add on to a game.Sonwhy

THIS.... is the problem with society...

It's like having something stolen from you.... and someone says it's your fault for not locking it up.

Or I punch someone in the face and the judge blames the person I hit for not having his face out of the way of my fist.

I suppose its the devs fault that people download their games from the internet too, right?

Cheaters are losers that have no skill.

I think you're talking about COD4 here. In this case I can tell you that the devs aren't going to care about this game anymore, don't expect IW to make anymore patches, in fact don't expect activision to even allow them to do that. :P

The game has sold 10+ million copies and your telling me the devs can't make a patch with a better matchmaking system? Sonwhy

If you don't like the matchmaking system in a game, stop playing the game. It's not hard to figure out. The system not always matching you with other people who suck at the game so you can feel good about yourself because you didn't lose at a videogame doesn't justify cheating.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"][QUOTE="ViewtifulScott"]

It's equivalent to a baseball player who get's struck out all the time letting a steroid popping mountain of muscles hit for him, and him taking all the credit for it as if he actually accomplished anything, Does the baseball player in my example have any skill, in your opinion?

ViewtifulScott

You didn't answer my question.

[QUOTE="PSdual_wielder"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"] Maybe they already have over and over again and there is no end to the BSSonwhy

Am I reading this wrong or are you saying demonstrating actual skills consistently is BS?

Oh ok. You have 2 choices here, especially since you're playing on PSN:

1)Call me up and I'll deal with the pathetic losers in COD4, or

2)play another game.

edit: but if no one is really cheating in the game, don't bother me and accept that there are others better than you. :P

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]The game has sold 10+ million copies and your telling me the devs can't make a patch with a better matchmaking system? ViewtifulScott

If you don't like the matchmaking system in a game, stop playing the game. It's not hard to figure out. The system not always matching you with other people who suck at the game so you can feel good about yourself because you didn't lose at a videogame doesn't justify cheating.

Maybe the player has demonstrated their skills and taken out one or two people on their team but is dominated by the 5 or 6 other people constantly watching their backs. The player can leave the room but if he/she does they will be redirected to the same room or most likely to another room that is being completely dominated just as the other room they were in. And it never ends at least not till the weekends over.Sonwhy

Then that player should suck it up, accept that he is inferior to the other players, and either practice to get better or simply not play the game.

Yeah. It's pretty bad. It ruins the experience for everyone else.

Shad0ki11

[QUOTE="siLVURcross"]Yea course online cheating is a bad thing. The main thing that should be a priority in online gaming is fairness, honesty and consideration for other players.Sonwhy

[QUOTE="ViewtifulScott"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]The game has sold 10+ million copies and your telling me the devs can't make a patch with a better matchmaking system? Sonwhy

If you don't like the matchmaking system in a game, stop playing the game. It's not hard to figure out. The system not always matching you with other people who suck at the game so you can feel good about yourself because you didn't lose at a videogame doesn't justify cheating.

Then you have a very real lack of maturity and self control, and your issues go far beyond not being good at a videogame. I suggest you take a step back from gaming as a whole for a while and re-examine your priorities in life.

[QUOTE="ViewtifulScott"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"] Look at body building are they going to take away Arnold's Olympic titles for using steroids every now and then? He did lift the weights and did it consistently. Sonwhy

You didn't answer my question.