http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-30-how-bad-is-pc-piracy-really-article

When you think about it, piracy is an issue that all game developers and publishers have to deal with on a yearly basis, every single year they need to come up with new ideas to fight piracy, DRM seems to be the norm these days for more and more games publishers and no wonder why, some of them see up 80% of their content being used illegally by pirates depending on the country and its a cultural matter according to some, i think i can explain that thought process, building a gaming computer while is not necessarily extremely expensive nor hard (which i have first hand experience of) can be quite an unbearable hassle for the average gamer seeking a plug and play experience easily delivered by consoles, those that do dive into the whole PC gaming world and either buy an expensive pre built computer or build one themselves tend to find themselves in a position where just about any way to play the game is good enough for them, since gaming dedicated computers can be incredibly powerful limiting themselves to legit forms of acquisition of gaming experiences seems like a waste, considering how much untapped power lies within the newest video cards, since the attachment goes to the hardware and not the software, ownership doesnt seem to be an issue, one could argue that the reason why digital distribution became so popular on the PC platform is because it has been around in the form of piracy for decades, hence there is no need for physical media on the pc platfom, arguably thanks to piracy first and foremost and secondly, to distributors like steam and blizzard.

I'm not saying piracy isn't a serious problem on consoles, because it is. The numers are there for everyone to see but the fact that the piracy on PC has always been enourmous it is a stronger disincentive today for game developers, publisher and the industry itself because the development costs skyrocketed this gen like never before. Its the cancer of the gaming industry growing mostly on the PC platform and it isnt discussed enough because its an inconvenient truth.

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Rampant piracy is everywhere.

It's a return to the communist age...the idea that every man is entitled to anything he wants for free.

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You can deal with it (SOPA), but whenever you try to, you get massive hordes of people unwilling to sacrifice their digital liberty to pursue initiatives that aren't guaranteed to work.

Piracy can be stopped...but nobody wants it to stop.

That's why it's an inconvenient truth.

Ultimately piracy exists because people on some fundamental level want it to survive.

There's just something incredibly gratifying in the ability to get whatever you want, whenever you want, for absolutely no cost to you.

It's not overlooked, which is why DRM exists and it seems like every week someone is trying some new measure to combat piracy Also, did not readBPoole96

No.

Publishers are not stupid.

They know that no matter what type of DRM they create, it's only going to be a matter of time before it gets hacked and the .ISOs get posted on illegal online communities.

DRM is an exercise in futility; they do it because it helps stave off piracy a little bit, but they know it's eventually going to fail.

You know, I find it far, far more interesting, that the cancer of piracy on the 360 is overlooked by .....everyone. Millions of 360 games are downloaded, no one cares. I find this really odd to say the least. BibiMaghoo

[QUOTE="BibiMaghoo"]You know, I find it far, far more interesting, that the cancer of piracy on the 360 is overlooked by .....everyone. Millions of 360 games are downloaded, no one cares. I find this really odd to say the least. PC360Wii

And PlayStation 2, PSP...not to mention how it's pathetically easy to find 15+ year old games for free on the internet.

You can even play some of the games online without ever downloading anything to your computer.

they do it because it helps stave off piracy a little bit, but they know it's eventually going to fail.

peterw007

*SIGH*

Here we go again.

Rampant piracy is everywhere.

It's a return to the communist age...the idea that every man is entitled to anything he wants for free.

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You can deal with it (SOPA), but whenever you try to, you get massive hordes of people unwilling to sacrifice their digital liberty to pursue initiatives that aren't guaranteed to work.

Piracy can be stopped...but nobody wants it to stop.

That's why it's an inconvenient truth.

Ultimately piracy exists because people on some fundamental level want it to survive.

There's just something incredibly gratifying in the ability to get whatever you want, whenever you want, for absolutely no cost to you.

peterw007

And thats in principle the main problem that was born within the lines of pc gaming, just visit any site with torrents the truth is there to be seen, right in front of us but i guess its best to praise the pc gaming as the "prime" gaming experience based on customization and performance rather than the content itself. Thats why many game publishers and devs avoid putting their games on PC at all costs.

Pc gamers have to make big petitions on the internet for months just to get a publisher llike namco bandai consider a PC port of a game like Dark Souls, that when you think about it, seems more suitable for the PC crowd rather than the console crowd.

[QUOTE="peterw007"]they do it because it helps stave off piracy a little bit, but they know it's eventually going to fail.

millerlight89

EA is also a massive offender of unreasonable DRM.

In some respect, draconian DRM practices are more effective than minimal DRM, but you lose a lot of "digital freedom advocates" who will refuse to support your game purely based on your publishing decisions.

It's all a balancing act.

Some publishers think it's worth the decreased userbase of the game to opt for a more draconian policy.

Sometimes it works, but most of the time it doesn't.

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You cannot stop piracy. Even if some magically invulnerable system was devised that made PC piracy impossible the pirates would merely move to consoles, where piracy is even easier than on the PC. They pirate on the PC because they prefer the PC experience, not because it's an easier system to pirate for.

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You cannot stop piracy. Even if some magically invulnerable system was devised that made PC piracy impossible the pirates would merely move to consoles, where piracy is even easier than on the PC. They pirate on the PC because they prefer the PC experience, not because it's an easier system to pirate for.

garrett_daniels

You can stop piracy...

But it would require strict IP monitoring and censoring, a systematic, government-mandated shutdown of all piracy hubs (IRC, ED2K, DC++, Usenet, FreeNet, Kazaa, P2P Alternatives), torrent and cyberlocker indexing sites, and an overhaul in public opinion.

Like I said before, people on some fundamental level don't want freedom taken away from them; they are unwilling to give their riches up.

You cannot stop piracy. Even if some magically invulnerable system was devised that made PC piracy impossible the pirates would merely move to consoles, where piracy is even easier than on the PC. They pirate on the PC because they prefer the PC experience, not because it's an easier system to pirate for.

garrett_daniels

lol piracy on the pc has been round since the 90s developers just now crying about it on interviews LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

developers never heard of shareware? you could hack the game for full version lmao

piracy is the reason these developers even got money in the first place.

piracy is the reason these developers even got money in the first place.

wewantdoom4now

That is a heavily flawed claim..

Yes, some of the people who pirate games do contribute to the industry, but there are millions and millions of people all across the world who only leech off of piracy for the sake of convenience.

[QUOTE="wewantdoom4now"]

piracy is the reason these developers even got money in the first place.

peterw007

That is a heavily flawed claim..

Yes, some of the people who pirate games do contribute to the industry, but there are millions and millions of people all across the world who only leech off of piracy for the sake of convenience.

i got a pc at a garage sale in 1994 but my friend came over and installed quake shareware in 96 and he had crack for full game, lol he left the disk over.

me getting to play the full game made me go out and buy the retail copy.

****ing pirated quake got me to buy retail copies of quake 1/2/3/4

Yes, some of the people who pirate games do contribute to the industry, but there are millions and millions of people all across the world who only leech off of piracy for the sake of convenience.peterw007

The pirates who don't buy anything would not magically change their ways if they had to. They would simply consume less content overall. Having someone using content for free vs. not using it at all makes no difference to profits.

Those that want to try things before risking money on them would be less likely to buy without being given the option of seeing the product in advance (many publishers don't bother releasing demos).

shareware was piracy and that's how idsoftware and 3drealms startedwewantdoom4now

Shareware was authorised and the forerunner of demos. Shareware versions specifically said at the start that you could share them with your friends, whereas the full versions specifically stated that they weren't shareware.

Thats nice and all but alot of people dont go out and buy every game they pirate.PC360Wii

And thats in principle the main problem that was born within the lines of pc gaming, just visit any site with torrents the truth is there to be seen, right in front of us but i guess its best to praise the pc gaming as the "prime" gaming experience based on customization and performance rather than the content itself. Thats why many game publishers and devs avoid putting their games on PC at all costs.

Pc gamers have to make big petitions on the internet for months just to get a publisher llike namco bandai consider a PC port of a game like Dark Souls, that when you think about it, seems more suitable for the PC crowd rather than the console crowd.

TheOldOlder

This argument is flawed beyond repair...

Wow so many didn't read posts, is this the maturity of the pc population?shadowchronicle

Pretty much.

[QUOTE="peterw007"]Yes, some of the people who pirate games do contribute to the industry, but there are millions and millions of people all across the world who only leech off of piracy for the sake of convenience.garrett_daniels

The pirates who don't buy anything would not magically change their ways if they had to. They would simply consume less content overall. Having someone using content for free vs. not using it at all makes no difference to profits.

Those that want to try things before risking money on them would be less likely to buy without being given the option of seeing the product in advance (many publishers don't bother releasing demos).

shareware was piracy and that's how idsoftware and 3drealms startedwewantdoom4now

Shareware was authorised and the forerunner of demos. Shareware versions specifically said at the start that you could share them with your friends, whereas the full versions specifically stated that they weren't shareware.

piracy made me buy quake 1 how about that.

no that's not quake shareware disk i dont even have quake 1 shareware friend did.

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Rocker6

It's still better than console gaming.

To the TC, no one is going to read your post, GameSpot System Wars is 70-80% PC gamers and you just insulted the majority.

To the TC, no one is going to read your post, GameSpot System Wars is 70-80% PC gamers and you just insulted the majority.

Click_Clock

[QUOTE="Click_Clock"]

To the TC, no one is going to read your post, GameSpot System Wars is 70-80% PC gamers and you just insulted the majority.

TheOldOlder

What games are you talking about besides Dark Souls?

[QUOTE="TheOldOlder"]

[QUOTE="Click_Clock"] Its funny, sometimes it seems its full of Playstation fans, others Xbox360 fans but in reality this is filled with PC gamers, i'm not bashing the PC as a gaming platform, its great in its own right and has the biggest game library but it's not perfect all around like some people make it seem, there are just so many downsides to it and whenever someone brings them up they get "didn't read" posts or simple unsubstantiated trolling. The cold hard truth is on the link i provided its a recent article, not even a year old. Piracy is the reason why so many PC gamers find themselves making online petitions to get games that publishers release only for consoles.

jun_aka_pekto

What games are you talking about besides Dark Souls?

Off the top of my head, thismess, the first gears of war was ported to the PC but Epic Games just didnt release the second and third installment because of piracy it seems, here is Kotaku quoting Cliff B.

Why No Gears Of War 2 For PC? Well, Piracy For One

Epic Games won't be bringing Gears of War 2 to the PC. That's their story and they're stickin' to it. It's "definitely" not happening, swears designer Cliff Bleszinski, pointing to a worsening PC gaming environment. "The person who is savvy enough to want to have a good PC to upgrade their video card, is a person who is savvy enough to know [BitTorrent] to know all the elements so they can pirate software," says Bleszinski. "Therefore, high-end videogames are suffering very much on the PC." Hmph! Thanks a lot, **** Oh, not you, Cliff. We were talking to the dude stealing your game. Gears Of War 2 - Cliff Bleszinski Q&A ****

Several petitions were made to get the second and third gears games to PC but the 360 is simply the only profitable system for the developer.

You cited Gears 2 and Gears 3 which was made by Epic. Even so..... Why this statement then from Epic saying it's making PC the lead platform again?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-16-epic-games-working-on-five-new-titles

Edit:

Those plus Dark Souls barely made it plural enough to use "games" instead of "game." The way you emphasized it, you tried to make it sound like there are scores of consoles games being petitioned when it's simply not the case.

oh TC it's.... you :roll:

NOW I know why there are so many didn't read posts. You're notorious for just going off on one over PC

How does it feel ... being denied the game because the platform is deemd a pirate infested ground? It must be extremely frustrating and bitter. Well, you can blame piracy for that.TheOldOlder

How does it feel? Like those publishers are lying to my face. PC gamers, collectively, pay for their games just the same as console players. Some percentage on both sides opt for piracy (as with every form of entertainment), but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of the player base are ready and willing to open their wallets for a worthwhile product.

Publishers seem to think that the mention of PC piracy is a Get Out Of Jail Free card that instantly exonorates them from any culpability. The PC version might be released many months after the console versions with a poor port and no demo, but they make some baseless claims about piracy and that nullifies all other factors?

On the consoles publishers blame the used market in the same manner as piracy (despite used games being legal), but this also only serves to point the finger right back at them: used copies only exist because players sold the game after completing it, so a game that sees high used turnover was obviously not good enough to achieve player retention.

A high-quality console game will see a far larger portion of players hanging onto their copies, meaning fewer used copies are in circulation, and this in turn leads to higher sales of new copies of that game--but making a high-quality game is hard work; it's much easier to artificially devalue used copies (with bundled DLC and passes) while also milking extra money out of both new and used customers by cutting pieces out of the completed game at the last minute to sell back to everyone as on-disc/day one DLC.

Similarly, a high-quality game with a great PC port will see excellent PC sales (even if it also sees high PC piracy), whereas a game that is low-quality and/or poorly ported will see poor PC sales (while still probably having high PC piracy).

So that's why Alan Wake recouped it's expenses on the PC within a day and that the Xbox 360 version has a piracy: sale ratio of 50:50 approximately?

[QUOTE="TheOldOlder"]How does it feel ... being denied the game because the platform is deemd a pirate infested ground? It must be extremely frustrating and bitter. Well, you can blame piracy for that.garrett_daniels

How does it feel? Like those publishers are lying to my face. PC gamers, collectively, pay for their games just the same as console players. Some percentage on both sides opt for piracy (as with every form of entertainment), but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of the player base are ready and willing to open their wallets for a worthwhile product.

Publishers seem to think that the mention of PC piracy is a Get Out Of Jail Free card that instantly exonorates them from any culpability. The PC version might be released many months after the console versions with a poor port and no demo, but they make some baseless claims about piracy and that nullifies all other factors?

On the consoles publishers blame the used market in the same manner as piracy (despite used games being legal), but this also only serves to point the finger right back at them: used copies only exist because players sold the game after completing it, so a game that sees high used turnover was obviously not good enough to achieve player retention.

A high-quality console game will see a far larger portion of players hanging onto their copies, meaning fewer used copies are in circulation, and this in turn leads to higher sales of new copies of that game--but making a high-quality game is hard work; it's much easier to artificially devalue used copies (with bundled DLC and passes) while also milking extra money out of both new and used customers by cutting pieces out of the completed game at the last minute to sell back to everyone as on-disc/day one DLC.

Similarly, a high-quality game with a great PC port will see excellent PC sales (even if it also sees high PC piracy), whereas a game that is low-quality and/or poorly ported will see poor PC sales (while still probably having high PC piracy).

Piracy is ubiquitous; anyone who's savvy enough to know anything about PCs can very easily learn how to load illegally acquired games into a hacked 360 / PS3 / Wii console and play them.

It's true that there's a correlation between high-quality and video game retention, but that still doesn't solve the underlying dilemmas that developers and publishers face regarding rampant used game sales and piracy.

It's true that there's a correlation between high-quality and video game retention, but that still doesn't solve the underlying dilemmas that developers and publishers face regarding rampant used game sales and piracy.

peterw007

The problem is that they are treating the symptoms rather than the cause--that the game isn't worth paying for. You'll notice that the publishers and developers saying they don't care about piracy are the ones that are making great games--great games are rewarded with great sales. Piracy tends to remain at the same basic level whether a game sells well or poorly, so claiming it as a factor in a game's success is questionable at best.

Attempting to treat the symptoms of piracy with DRM and/or finger-wagging is a futile gesture because of how piracy works. Pirates fall into three basic categories:

1. "Demo" pirates. These players want to make sure that the game is worth it before buying (remember that you can't rent/trade in on the PC). Releasing a proper demo will vastly reduce this number. Adding strong DRM will make them less willing to pay for the game since it always ends up harming legitimate customers far more than actual pirates; some will wait until the game goes on sale (since the DRM has reduced its value to them), but others will shun it altogether.

2. "Limited means" pirates. These players have lower incomes and/or live in countries where video games are very expensive, so they can only afford to buy a few games a year. A game's quality will help determine whether it is one of the few they are able to pay for; DRM will simply make them skip that game.

3. "Pure" pirates. These players want free entertainment for the sake of it being free. DRM will merely make them play something else and/or wait for the DRM to be cracked. Only the most impatient will buy the game when DRM gets in the way.

No amount of DRM or other anti-customer actions will magically turn players in any of these categories into customers.

It's better to have someone playing a game for free rather than not playing it at all. Those playing a great game are going to recommend it to others (whether they themselves paid for it or not), but if there was some DRM or whatever that stopped them doing so their recommendations wouldn't exist.

Valve's Steam has been successful because it rewards customers rather than punishing them. Its DRM is comparatively very weak, but great games using Steam as DRM still see great sales.

How does it feel to have a super high end computer and the wish to play the gears game with 1920x1080 res, 16x AA and 60 FPS and being denied the game because the platform is deemd a pirate infested ground? It must be extremely frustrating and bitter. Well, you can blame piracy for that.TheOldOlder

[QUOTE="peterw007"]

It's true that there's a correlation between high-quality and video game retention, but that still doesn't solve the underlying dilemmas that developers and publishers face regarding rampant used game sales and piracy.

garrett_daniels

The problem is that they are treating the symptoms rather than the cause--that the game isn't worth paying for. You'll notice that the publishers and developers saying they don't care about piracy are the ones that are making great games--great games are rewarded with great sales. Piracy tends to remain at the same basic level whether a game sells well or poorly, so claiming it as a factor in a game's success is questionable at best.

Attempting to treat the symptoms of piracy with DRM and/or finger-wagging is a futile gesture because of how piracy works. Pirates fall into three basic categories:

1. "Demo" pirates. These players want to make sure that the game is worth it before buying (remember that you can't rent/trade in on the PC). Releasing a proper demo will vastly reduce this number. Adding strong DRM will make them less willing to pay for the game since it always ends up harming legitimate customers far more than actual pirates; some will wait until the game goes on sale (since the DRM has reduced its value to them), but others will shun it altogether.

2. "Limited means" pirates. These players have lower incomes and/or live in countries where video games are very expensive, so they can only afford to buy a few games a year. A game's quality will help determine whether it is one of the few they are able to pay for; DRM will simply make them skip that game.

3. "Pure" pirates. These players want free entertainment for the sake of it being free. DRM will merely make them play something else and/or wait for the DRM to be cracked. Only the most impatient will buy the game when DRM gets in the way.

No amount of DRM or other anti-customer actions will magically turn players in any of these categories into customers.

It's better to have someone playing a game for free rather than not playing it at all. Those playing a great game are going to recommend it to others (whether they themselves paid for it or not), but if there was some DRM or whatever that stopped them doing so their recommendations wouldn't exist.

Valve's Steam has been successful because it rewards customers rather than punishing them. Its DRM is comparatively very weak, but great games using Steam as DRM still see great sales.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if piracy wasn't such a massive issue.

Do you understand the extent to which piracy plagues video games?

Here's a source for you:

http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-games-of-2011-111230/

Here are the numbers of video games that were the most publicly torrented in 2011:

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PC Game Downloads on BitTorrent in 2011, as of December 30, 2011

1.Crysis 2(3,920,000)(Mar. 2011)

2.Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3(3,650,000)(Nov. 2011)

3. Battlefield 3(3,510,000)(Oct. 2011)

4.FIFA 12(3,390,000)(Sept. 2011)

5.Portal 2(3,240,000)(Apr. 2011)

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Wii Game Downloads on BitTorrent in 2011, as of December 30, 2011

1.Super Mario Galaxy 2(1,280,000)(May. 2010)

2.Mario Sports Mix(1,090,000)(Feb. 2011)

3.Xenoblade Chronicles(950,000)(Aug. 2011 EU)

4.Lego Pirates of the Caribbean(870,000)(May. 2011)

5.FIFA 12(860,000)(Sept. 2011)

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Xbox 360 Game Downloads on BitTorrent in 2011, as of December 30, 2011

1.Gears of War 3(890,000)(Sep. 2011)

2.Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3(830,000)(Nov. 2011)

3. Battlefield 3(760,000)(Oct. 2011)

4.Forza Motorsport 4(720,000)(Oct. 2011)

5.Kinect Sports: Season Two(690,000)(Oct. 2011)

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Now keep in mind that this counts only ONE type of piracy, and does NOT count the piracy from cyberlockers, IRC, private torrent sites, DC++ / other sharing hubs / P2P variant technology, or Usenet.

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Just imagine if all of the "pure" pirates decided to purchase the game, the "limited means" pirates decided to wait until the game was selling cheaply, and the "demo" pirates decided to use the actual demo or briefly rent the game before buying it.

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We can never be sure of the exact numbers of the different type of pirates, but from my own experience the majority of those pirates above are "pure" pirates.