.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Edit:
Those plus Dark Souls barely made it plural enough to use "games" instead of "game." The way you emphasized it, you tried to make it sound like there are scores of consoles games being petitioned when it's simply not the case.
jun_aka_pekto
Not to mention the Dark Souls fiasco was started by a Namco employee asking on a forum if there was interest in a PC port. It's not like PC gamers had to beg for it.
[QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"][QUOTE="TheOldOlder"][QUOTE="Click_Clock"] Its funny, sometimes it seems its full of Playstation fans, others Xbox360 fans but in reality this is filled with PC gamers, i'm not bashing the PC as a gaming platform, its great in its own right and has the biggest game library but it's not perfect all around like some people make it seem, there are just so many downsides to it and whenever someone brings them up they get "didn't read" posts or simple unsubstantiated trolling. The cold hard truth is on the link i provided its a recent article, not even a year old. Piracy is the reason why so many PC gamers find themselves making online petitions to get games that publishers release only for consoles.TheOldOlderWhat games are you talking about besides Dark Souls? the first gears of war was ported to the PC but Epic Games just didnt release the second and third installment because of piracy it seems, here is Kotaku quoting Cliff B.The reason that GEOW 1 didn't thrive on the PC is threefold: 1. It was release a long time after the 360 version 2. It required a user to have a Gold Live account to play online when it first came out (aka pay to play online which a majority of PC gamers refuse to do) 3. It was a buggy mess and sloppily ported. The excuse that piracy is what caused it to fail is just a cheap cop-out and Epic should be ashamed for allowing someone to say such things.
Oh, I didn't know that piracy was exclusive to the PC... cool beans... oh wait, it is a big issue on the consoles too (not to mention used games as well as rentals).
Piracy, on either platform, is not overlooked. DRM, Playpass, DLC, etc... are all responses to piracy.
No. It's not ignored. Piracy on PC is simply a fact of life, a constant that is taken into account by anyone who's making games for that platform. Developers simply rarely waste energy and ressources on fighting it anymore and instead prefer to concentrate on catering to the people who do pay.I'm not saying piracy isn't a serious problem on consoles, because it is. The numers are there for everyone to see but the fact that the piracy on PC has always been enourmous it is a stronger disincentive today for game developers, publisher and the industry itself because the development costs skyrocketed this gen like never before. Its the cancer of the gaming industry growing mostly on the PC platform and it isnt discussed enough because its an inconvenient truth.
TheOldOlder
Also...it's not a "disincentive for game developers" exactly because of skyrocketting costs. No matter if there's piracy or not, the cost of making a big AAA game these days are so high that few projects can afford not to be released on PC.
Also..yes, piracy is much stronger on PC than on consoles, but consoles have their own cancer: used game sales.
No. It's not ignored. Piracy on PC is simply a fact of life, a constant that is taken into account by anyone who's making games for that platform. Developers simply rarely waste energy and ressources on fighting it anymore and instead prefer to concentrate on catering to the people who do pay.[QUOTE="TheOldOlder"]
I'm not saying piracy isn't a serious problem on consoles, because it is. The numers are there for everyone to see but the fact that the piracy on PC has always been enourmous it is a stronger disincentive today for game developers, publisher and the industry itself because the development costs skyrocketed this gen like never before. Its the cancer of the gaming industry growing mostly on the PC platform and it isnt discussed enough because its an inconvenient truth.
AdrianWerner
Also...it's not a "disincentive for game developers" exactly because of skyrocketting costs. No matter if there's piracy or not, the cost of making a big AAA game these days are so high that few projects can afford not to be released on PC.
Also..yes, piracy is much stronger on PC than on consoles, but consoles have their own cancer: used game sales.
You figure console's used game market, pirating and copied disc selling(big in Asia), borrowing,renting adds up to be as bad or worse then Pc's piracy.Oh, I didn't know that piracy was exclusive to the PC... cool beans... oh wait, it is a big issue on the consoles too (not to mention used games as well as rentals).
Piracy, on either platform, is not overlooked. DRM, Playpass, DLC, etc... are all responses to piracy.
arto1223
At least look at hes last sentence. He also mentioned that its also an issue on consoles.
Hermits either sweep it under the rug or shout USED GAMES LOL and run away whenever it's brought up.
[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]
Hermits either sweep it under the rug or shout USED GAMES LOL and run away whenever it's brought up.
tenaka2
USED GAMES are worse for the industry then piracy is. *runs away*
GET HIM
Cancer implies that something is dying, yet hermits are always going on about how PC gaming is thriving.
Game developers really need to worry about what they are doing rather than what the pirates are doing. They are making suck ass games left and rigth, then wondering why no one wants to pay for them. I can't imagine why.
[QUOTE="tenaka2"]
[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]
Hermits either sweep it under the rug or shout USED GAMES LOL and run away whenever it's brought up.
waltefmoney
USED GAMES are worse for the industry then piracy is. *runs away*
GET HIM
Used games does take a lot of money out of the industry, however piracy does not. At least gamestop are gone, this should help the situation.
Used games does take a lot of money out of the industry, however piracy does not. At least gamestop are gone, this should help the situation.
tenaka2
At least with used games the person who bought one is much more likely to spend money that goes toward the actual publisher(online passes, DLC, etc) than with piracy.
[QUOTE="tenaka2"]
Used games does take a lot of money out of the industry, however piracy does not. At least gamestop are gone, this should help the situation.
waltefmoney
At least with used games the person who bought one is much more likely to spend money that goes toward the actual publisher(online passes, DLC, etc) than with piracy.
That is actually the problem. People will buy new titles 2nd hand for £40 rather then pay £45 for a new copy.
That £40 quid goes directly to a retailer, the publisher and developers dont see a penny of it.
Hardcore PC pirates on the other hand would not spend money on a game so no money is lost.
That is actually the problem. People will buy new titles 2nd hand for £40 rather then pay £45 for a new copy.
That £40 quid goes directly to a retailer, the publisher and developers dont see a penny of it.
Hardcore PC pirates on the other hand would not spend money on a game so no money is lost.
tenaka2
Yes, but again, with DLC and online passes publishers in general generate much more profits from people who buy games second hand than they do with filthy pirates.
[QUOTE="tenaka2"]
That is actually the problem. People will buy new titles 2nd hand for £40 rather then pay £45 for a new copy.
That £40 quid goes directly to a retailer, the publisher and developers dont see a penny of it.
Hardcore PC pirates on the other hand would not spend money on a game so no money is lost.
waltefmoney
Yes, but again, with DLC and online passes publishers in general generate much more profits from people who buy games second hand than they do with filthy pirates.
Online passes are a great idea it could really help the situation. DLC is questionable though, especially day 1 dlc.
And DS, and Wii[QUOTE="PC360Wii"][QUOTE="BibiMaghoo"]You know, I find it far, far more interesting, that the cancer of piracy on the 360 is overlooked by .....everyone. Millions of 360 games are downloaded, no one cares. I find this really odd to say the least. peterw007
And PlayStation 2, PSP...not to mention how it's pathetically easy to find 15+ year old games for free on the internet.
You can even play some of the games online without ever downloading anything to your computer.
Piracy just doesn't affect games, it affects movies and tv shows as well.
not to mention how it's pathetically easy to find 15+ year old games for free on the internet.peterw007You are aware many of these old titles are legaly impossible to aquire? Take Dungeon Keeper for example, it's become "Abandonwear" meaning it's unavailable for purchase, the developers (Bullfrog) no longer lay claim to the IP, and it's pretty much unavailable by any "Legal" means. What happens when I want to play this game? Now my specific example has changed as you can actually legally buy Dungeonkeeper from Good old games but there is a large pool of games that have fallen off the radar and are no longer in the market to purcahse wether you wanted to or not. Also on the note of "SOPA would stop piracy!" I just have to lol. Most pirated software isn't even distributed on the net. People can get pirated versions of software allover the world without the use of the internet. It would be a massive roadblock to piracy but to stop it? oh boy...The digital industry has bigger problems to solve than the "Loss of capital" from Piracy. Piracy is a nice scapegoat though when your game/software flopped in the retail market. It's a shame that people still make millions of dollars with or without piracy cramping their style, it's so much easier to blame someone else than admit your product just didn't seem like a purchase to anyone. Piracy is still a crime no doubt, but I can't blame it for any hardship the industry is experiencing right now.
Online passes are a great idea it could really help the situation. DLC is questionable though, especially day 1 dlc.
tenaka2
Well I'm not saying I'm a fan of DLC but a lot of people who buy games used still buy it from XBL/PSN and most of that money goes directly to the publisher. How many pirates would you say do that?
Hardcore PC pirates on the other hand would not spend money on a game so no money is lost.
tenaka2
How do you know they wouldn't spend? Why do so many people buy legal copies of WoW (and other MMOs) and pay a monthly subscription? Those are PC gamers, and maybe, when they can't pirate a game they will actually buy it?
Furthermore:
People don't pirate on the PC because PC gamers are inherently pirates, they pirate because it's easy. If pirating on console was just as easy there would be the same amount. The point is if people pirate games for the PC they are less likely to buy games for BOTH the PC and console since the 2 are fairly interchangeable. Plus what I find is most of the people I know who pirate games are not gamers at all, and would only really play COD if they couldn't try other games for free. Everyone I know who play a wide range of games regularly owns those games.
Furthermore I would day used games are more of an issue. 90% of PS3 games I have are used. 0% of PC games I have are used.
[QUOTE="arto1223"]
Oh, I didn't know that piracy was exclusive to the PC... cool beans... oh wait, it is a big issue on the consoles too (not to mention used games as well as rentals).
Piracy, on either platform, is not overlooked. DRM, Playpass, DLC, etc... are all responses to piracy.
speedfog
At least look at hes last sentence. He also mentioned that its also an issue on consoles.
My bad. I normally read all of a post, even if it is long, but... I saw the guy that made the post and he has been making a ton of anti-PC threads that just suck and are more BS than other threads. So, I just gave up on my expectations from the thread halfway through it.
I just love how he makes this thread but fails to see that PC piracy pales in comparison to console piracy/used games/rental in conjunction with each other. I don't care if people talk trash about one thing/side of an issue as long as they also point out aspects of the other side too.
I don't have any trouble with that kind of doing. I think this is why piracy is such an endless debate and will never be destroyed. Not everyone who pirates is a bad person or costing the industry money. I think most actually don't have the money left to buy more games. (third and first world) And plenty of gamers who put insane money into gaming also pirate. But then you have the @%#^&O&$* who sell pirated copies to people who could just buy normal games... who would have bought retail games even if they weren't offered a lot of free or almost free games. I hope we'll find a way to separate those two kinds of people before hanging everyone in town. That's another thing, I can't name a single person who doesn't use copyrighted pictures for a school assignment or presentation, who doesn't sing copyrighted songs or turns up the volume so loud that they are publishing it to the neighbourhood. I honestly can't name a single person who didn't watch copyrighted content on youtube or doesn't have copyrighted content on their facebook/hyves/blog. And people don't feel guilty about that and I'm not even sure that they should. I mean what kind of world are people wanting to create restricting everything beautiful to individuals. I don't know. But I do know that people side with pirates because companies (and thus USA government) are threatening them for living a (nowadays normal) life.All of my games I have bought have been through "trying" them first. We dont get demos anymore so I just get my own demos.
sailor232
[QUOTE="peterw007"]
It's true that there's a correlation between high-quality and video game retention, but that still doesn't solve the underlying dilemmas that developers and publishers face regarding rampant used game sales and piracy.
garrett_daniels
The problem is that they are treating the symptoms rather than the cause--that the game isn't worth paying for. You'll notice that the publishers and developers saying they don't care about piracy are the ones that are making great games--great games are rewarded with great sales. Piracy tends to remain at the same basic level whether a game sells well or poorly, so claiming it as a factor in a game's success is questionable at best.
Attempting to treat the symptoms of piracy with DRM and/or finger-wagging is a futile gesture because of how piracy works. Pirates fall into three basic categories:
1. "Demo" pirates. These players want to make sure that the game is worth it before buying (remember that you can't rent/trade in on the PC). Releasing a proper demo will vastly reduce this number. Adding strong DRM will make them less willing to pay for the game since it always ends up harming legitimate customers far more than actual pirates; some will wait until the game goes on sale (since the DRM has reduced its value to them), but others will shun it altogether.
2. "Limited means" pirates. These players have lower incomes and/or live in countries where video games are very expensive, so they can only afford to buy a few games a year. A game's quality will help determine whether it is one of the few they are able to pay for; DRM will simply make them skip that game.
3. "Pure" pirates. These players want free entertainment for the sake of it being free. DRM will merely make them play something else and/or wait for the DRM to be cracked. Only the most impatient will buy the game when DRM gets in the way.
No amount of DRM or other anti-customer actions will magically turn players in any of these categories into customers.
It's better to have someone playing a game for free rather than not playing it at all. Those playing a great game are going to recommend it to others (whether they themselves paid for it or not), but if there was some DRM or whatever that stopped them doing so their recommendations wouldn't exist.
Valve's Steam has been successful because it rewards customers rather than punishing them. Its DRM is comparatively very weak, but great games using Steam as DRM still see great sales.
Finally someone here with good sense. Bill Gates himself once said he's perfectly ok with rampant Windows+Office piracy in China and other Asian markets. Or do people believe for a second that MS would prefer if the entire Asian market switched to Linux? MS prefers them to use pirated software because that helps to secure a near 100% market share for Windows and Office. And it makes sure Linux or other OSes never get off the ground.
Pirates gonna pirate. What matters is actual sales, not potential sales lost.
According to Newzoo the PC gaming market is far larger than any console in 2011 and the gap will continue to increase. So I guess it can cope with this rampant piracy just fine.
According to Newzoo
2011
PC Boxed/Download & MMO in USA, Germany, UK, Russia, Brazil, France (not including social/casual games)
- $14.6 Billion
Consoles & Handhelds combined in the same countries as above
- $15.1 Billion
That's a single platform with "rampant piracy" almost beating about 6 different platforms combined that have more expensive games and that lack piracy on the level of the PC.
Seems to me that piracy is not a major problem. Companies will whine about it because they want more money, that's natural. Just like companies whine about used games on consoles. The reality is that more games are made than ever and the game industry makes more money than ever. It's important not to be so gullable and it seems to me the OP is unfortunately vulnerable in this sense. He is a little gullable and confused.
According to Newzoo the PC gaming market is far larger than any console in 2011 and the gap will continue to increase. So I guess it can cope with this rampant piracy just fine.
According to Newzoo
2011
PC Boxed/Download & MMO in USA, Germany, UK, Russia, Brazil, France (not including social/casual games)
- $14.6 Billion
Consoles & Handhelds combined in the same countries as above
- $15.1 Billion
That's a single platform with "rampant piracy" almost beating about 6 different platforms combined that have more expensive games and that lack piracy on the level of the PC.
Seems to me that piracy is not a major problem. Companies will whine about it because they want more money, that's natural. Just like companies whine about used games on consoles. The reality is that more games are made than ever and the game industry makes more money than ever. It's important not to be so gullable and it seems to me the OP is unfortunately vulnerable in this sense. He is a little gullable and confused.
iamrob7
Great post.
Don't forget that piracy is also used as a scapegoat by developers who make **** games.
I was going to make a thread on Call of Duty sales, but decided not to make it because the highest selling cod game on pc is like 1 million, while the console versions sell like 13 million. I figured the thread would turn into a piracy debate, rather than its intention of showing how much the franchise has sold over the years. I don't think piracy on pc is anywhere near the same level of piracy on consoles. arkephonic
COD just isn't that popular on the PC, the PC has literally hundreds of online shooters to choose from, many of which have been around for years and still have huge communities. For example Counterstrike 1.6 is almost 10 years old but has 60-70,000 concurrent players every day. There is just so much choice on the PC that COD struggles to have the kind of foothold it has elsewhere. Whereas on the consoles there is a fairly limited selection of online shooters with online communities and an even more limited selection of online shooters with framerates above 30FPS. So COD is actually a terrible example for the point you are making.
Piracy will always be greater on an open platform, which is what the PC is. Fortunately it doesn't have much of an effect because of the sheer size of the PC market.
Those who pirate either don't care, or mitigate the act and say theirs doesn't count.
I would rather see a list of favorite piracy excuses.
PC gaming is pretty much a pirate's paradise. You can just look up some torrent sites, download and enjoy all the latest PC games for free without any DRM protections or anything. So it's no wonder why some developers hesitate to release their games on the PC. The internet and broadband connections made things really easy. You don't even need to copy any physical media anymore like it was in the 90s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOBroA2NPNY
:P
piracy made me buy quake 1 how about that.
http://i40.tinypic.com/nxukhu.jpg
wewantdoom4now
Quake 1 was shareware which is basically the full game, just locked content. It was the same with Doom and Wolfenstein 3D. This sort of distribution was later abandoned by most PC developers.
Hermits just keep stealing their games. I guess they are spending to much on there rigs to buy games. Hermits are so entited they steal games when they "don't like" some thing they did. Pricey is by far the biggest on pc but hermits will say bu bu bu teh xbox!
According to Newzoo the PC gaming market is far larger than any console in 2011 and the gap will continue to increase. So I guess it can cope with this rampant piracy just fine.
According to Newzoo
2011
PC Boxed/Download & MMO in USA, Germany, UK, Russia, Brazil, France (not including social/casual games)
- $14.6 Billion
Consoles & Handhelds combined in the same countries as above
- $15.1 Billion
That's a single platform with "rampant piracy" almost beating about 6 different platforms combined that have more expensive games and that lack piracy on the level of the PC.
Seems to me that piracy is not a major problem. Companies will whine about it because they want more money, that's natural. Just like companies whine about used games on consoles. The reality is that more games are made than ever and the game industry makes more money than ever. It's important not to be so gullable and it seems to me the OP is unfortunately vulnerable in this sense. He is a little gullable and confused.
iamrob7
where did they get the numbers?
Hermits just keep stealing their games. I guess they are spending to much on there rigs to buy games. Hermits are so entited they steal games when they "don't like" some thing they did. Pricey is by far the biggest on pc but hermits will say bu bu bu teh xbox!
dontshackzmii
Piracy is bigger on PC but it is also a huge issue on consoles. Hence the posibility of no used games and constant online next gen.
[QUOTE="dontshackzmii"]
Hermits just keep stealing their games. I guess they are spending to much on there rigs to buy games. Hermits are so entited they steal games when they "don't like" some thing they did. Pricey is by far the biggest on pc but hermits will say bu bu bu teh xbox!
tenaka2
Piracy is bigger on PC but it is also a huge issue on consoles. Hence the posibility of no used games and constant online next gen.
lol sure it is you hermits really like to make stuff up don't you? Ps3 has pretty much zero piracy and pirates get their 360s bricked. Windows 8 is going to have a kill switch so enjoy stealing games while you still can.
[QUOTE="tenaka2"]
[QUOTE="dontshackzmii"]
Hermits just keep stealing their games. I guess they are spending to much on there rigs to buy games. Hermits are so entited they steal games when they "don't like" some thing they did. Pricey is by far the biggest on pc but hermits will say bu bu bu teh xbox!
dontshackzmii
Piracy is bigger on PC but it is also a huge issue on consoles. Hence the posibility of no used games and constant online next gen.
lol sure it is you hermits really like to make stuff up don't you? Ps3 has pretty much zero piracy and pirates get their 360s bricked. Windows 8 is going to have a kill switch so enjoy stealing games while you still can.
Sure...... consoler's live in denial and ignorance...... it isnt bliss when it bites back. The used game market and pirating on consoles is just as big as an issue as pc pirating dont kid yourself. and it takes all consoles and handhelds to match/surpass Pc in total profit. No one console or handheld brand can outpace Pc.It also keeps legit customers from buying a copy too. Publishers can be quite stupid. I now point you to Ubisoft and Capcom. This. Am I going to pay $60 and get a copy of a game riddled with DRM that will be a pain to work around, or will I just download a free copy online with no drm? Granted some people will pirate with or without drm around but there are some people who don't buy games and pirate them just because they have drm.[QUOTE="peterw007"]they do it because it helps stave off piracy a little bit, but they know it's eventually going to fail.
millerlight89
[QUOTE="iamrob7"]
According to Newzoo the PC gaming market is far larger than any console in 2011 and the gap will continue to increase. So I guess it can cope with this rampant piracy just fine.
According to Newzoo
2011
PC Boxed/Download & MMO in USA, Germany, UK, Russia, Brazil, France (not including social/casual games)
- $14.6 Billion
Consoles & Handhelds combined in the same countries as above
- $15.1 Billion
That's a single platform with "rampant piracy" almost beating about 6 different platforms combined that have more expensive games and that lack piracy on the level of the PC.
Seems to me that piracy is not a major problem. Companies will whine about it because they want more money, that's natural. Just like companies whine about used games on consoles. The reality is that more games are made than ever and the game industry makes more money than ever. It's important not to be so gullable and it seems to me the OP is unfortunately vulnerable in this sense. He is a little gullable and confused.
dontshackzmii
where did they get the numbers?
http://uk.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29025415/which-platform-makes-the-most--for-games-consoles-v-pc-numberscharts-inside
links provided in this thread.
[QUOTE="tenaka2"]
[QUOTE="dontshackzmii"]
Hermits just keep stealing their games. I guess they are spending to much on there rigs to buy games. Hermits are so entited they steal games when they "don't like" some thing they did. Pricey is by far the biggest on pc but hermits will say bu bu bu teh xbox!
dontshackzmii
Piracy is bigger on PC but it is also a huge issue on consoles. Hence the posibility of no used games and constant online next gen.
lol sure it is you hermits really like to make stuff up don't you? Ps3 has pretty much zero piracy and pirates get their 360s bricked. Windows 8 is going to have a kill switch so enjoy stealing games while you still can.
The PC is an open platform, that means PC gamers can use whatever OS we desire. So if Windows 8 had a kill switch no one would buy it, they would just use Windows 7 or Windows XP or any other free OS that exists.
Piracy can't be stopped, it has always existed and always will. It's not actually an issue either way and neither are used games on consoles.
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