Lets get something clear about RESIDENT EVIL 4/5 (please read)

[QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="Eyezonmii"] stop starling....where are the reason, i've kindly asked for? what makes the classic re's SURVIVAL HORROR..and what is your definition of it? remember, don't use my points. since they don't contribute to the term..lol. i'm waiting. finalfantasy94

Well I think you hit it. Again RE4 felt like wave and wave of enimies you were expecting in the next room. There was no surprise or fear. RE4 you gain an arsinal very quickly and as you say with the Drebin of RE4 there was no worries at all.

I have a strong feeling this topic is going to go nowhere and was just a waste of time. None is going to change thier views.finalfantasy94

I have a strong feeling this topic is going to go nowhere and was just a waste of time. None is going to change thier views.finalfantasy94

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]I have a strong feeling this topic is going to go nowhere and was just a waste of time. None is going to change thier views.Chutebox

[QUOTE="ps3_owns_360Wii"]give me back the horror element:cry:Eyezonmii

so your telling me that RE4 was as scary as the RE before it...

the camera angle destoryed the series imo, and isnt scary anymore

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]I have a strong feeling this topic is going to go nowhere and was just a waste of time. None is going to change thier views.Eyezonmii

I wish your hate for the old series didint blind you so much. I didint how you shot down the other guys points,but oh well im done to.

Untill someone shoots this down as NOT surival with proof, RE4/RE5 are considered SURIVAL HORROR GAMES...(its even labeled that by capcom..so go argue with them)

1, especially on pro, you can easily run out of ammo. FACT!

If you're a poor shot and don't understand how to use the knife/suplex/roundhouse kick. Carry less guns and the game automatically scales ammo drops for you. Getting Mine Launcher ammo drops from a farmer? Priceless.

2.Enemies are aggressive and stay in packs...easily taken down if reloading at bad times or not using the right weapons. FACT!
Not true, unless you aren't intelligent enough to find an escape route (which there are PLENTY of in almost every situation).

3. timed button sequences, relys on speed and quickness to survive...giving the player more tension and anxiety.FACT!
Horror isn't as much in question (despite it being very miniscule and eradicated by other issues). The difficulty, enemies, as well as the atmosphere, poor lighthearted script, and derivative story are what tend to throw out the horror aspects.

4. REGENERATORS, require precise and accurate shots to the weak point to kill...tension and axiety can be felt as each shot missed gets you closer to death. etc etc. FACT.
You can kill them without using the scope. It's not even hard, especially on the default difficulty setting. Several shots from a BB or K7 takes them down quick, and ammunition isn't a problem if you're carrying only a few weapons.

5. Game requires skill and stragedie to take down some opponents, using a knife of certain weapons....FACT!

I did a knife run and got to the Castle. Wasn't hard, and took little skill. Knife one Ganado, kick, crowd is stunned, repeat until they're all dead.

People on systemwars don't even know the term SURIVAL AND HORROR.....AMAZING..then again, its a silly excuse to bash the game.

Eyezonmii

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"]

Untill someone shoots this down as NOT surival with proof, RE4/RE5 are considered SURIVAL HORROR GAMES...(its even labeled that by capcom..so go argue with them)

1, especially on pro, you can easily run out of ammo. FACT!

If you're a poor shot and don't understand how to use the knife/suplex/roundhouse kick. Carry less guns and the game automatically scales ammo drops for you. Getting Mine Launcher ammo drops from a farmer? Priceless.

2.Enemies are aggressive and stay in packs...easily taken down if reloading at bad times or not using the right weapons. FACT!
Not true, unless you aren't intelligent enough to find an escape route (which there are PLENTY of in almost every situation).

3. timed button sequences, relys on speed and quickness to survive...giving the player more tension and anxiety.FACT!
Horror isn't as much in question (despite it being very miniscule and eradicated by other issues). The difficulty, enemies, as well as the atmosphere, poor lighthearted script, and derivative story are what tend to throw out the horror aspects.

4. REGENERATORS, require precise and accurate shots to the weak point to kill...tension and axiety can be felt as each shot missed gets you closer to death. etc etc. FACT.
You can kill them without using the scope. It's not even hard, especially on the default difficulty setting. Several shots from a BB or K7 takes them down quick, and ammunition isn't a problem if you're carrying only a few weapons.

5. Game requires skill and stragedie to take down some opponents, using a knife of certain weapons....FACT!

I did a knife run and got to the Castle. Wasn't hard, and took little skill. Knife one Ganado, kick, crowd is stunned, repeat until they're all dead.

People on systemwars don't even know the term SURIVAL AND HORROR.....AMAZING..then again, its a silly excuse to bash the game.

Saturos3091

Edit:
Great post from the guy above me.violent_spinal

I can guarantee I've played more rounds of RE4 than you.
Multiple times across all platforms.

I'm really starting to wonder if your first RE game was number 4?
I wouldn't be surprised in the least.

I've also played the RE5 demo.

How about take your own advice and actually play the old games.
Not just watch videos to get your blind comparison. You like to say this, right?
Ha.

What RE has evolved into is not is not Survival Horror.

Telling people to play RE4 on Pro is weak.
I completed my first run through of Pro, which you would know starts you back from the beginning, no special weapons, only dying once.
It's not that hard if you're not an idiot.

I'm being real nice here, not pointing out some discrepancies in your posts.
I just felt like addressing this one part of your post. Your boldest claim.
And, you've really already made yourself look stupid enough.

I can't tell you to quit while you're ahead, because you were never there.

Really, I find this article says it all:
http://kotaku.com/5056008/does-survival-horror-really-still-exist

Survival Horror is dead.
You can take your spoon fed label from Capcom.
Whatever.

Edit:
Great post from the guy above me.violent_spinal

[QUOTE="violent_spinal"]Edit:
Great post from the guy above me.Saturos3091

Just let him be. Theres jsut no point in trying anymore.

never heard of the guy....so NO! as for your explanation, that's total crock....RE4, has all those factors and does a better job and presenting them, unlike the classic CHEAP re scares. RE4 creates, a tense and anxiety atmosphere through out the game, weither its from the button sequences, stop and shoot gameplay, reloading, trying to kill an enemies (expeically the regenertors, parasite dogs, etc) your reasons with ashley among others, DON'T destroy the survival aspect, it actually ADDS to it, being alone doesn't automatically make it a true surival game..and people have that mixed up. S.T.A.R.S, from RE1, job was to search and find, much like leons, except in RE4, thanks to the much more improved dialog and abilities, it seems less of what RE1 tried to do, and this is where people think its lost that feeling. Its merely more realistic. because we all know how cheap the classic Re's dialog and overall cut scenes were. " Even if you want to call the game a "survival-horror," which it is not by any means, it doesn't save the derivative story. The story doesn't relate, isn't cohesive, and doesn't blend with the RE universe. This has led many fans to ignore the game or simply declare it a "spinoff" of the main series, which was essentially true but now with RE5 they seem to have split the universe in two." yes it is, RE4 has all those survival elements, to a less degree, but its still there, expeically HORROR. read the terms for god sakes. What is the RE universe? Cheesy dialog, with stiff and lifeless characters? just because you grew up on the older re's as a kid, doesn't mean its the true form...just because you remember the good old days and get all emotional. RE4, is much more of a realistic approach and still keeps the tension and surival horror aspect. its why its labelled it. PERIOD! spin it all you want. Eyezonmii

[QUOTE="Saturos3091"][QUOTE="violent_spinal"]Edit:
Great post from the guy above me.finalfantasy94

Just let him live in his world. Theres jsut no point in trying anymore.

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"]never heard of the guy....so NO! as for your explanation, that's total crock....RE4, has all those factors and does a better job and presenting them, unlike the classic CHEAP re scares. RE4 creates, a tense and anxiety atmosphere through out the game, weither its from the button sequences, stop and shoot gameplay, reloading, trying to kill an enemies (expeically the regenertors, parasite dogs, etc) your reasons with ashley among others, DON'T destroy the survival aspect, it actually ADDS to it, being alone doesn't automatically make it a true surival game..and people have that mixed up. S.T.A.R.S, from RE1, job was to search and find, much like leons, except in RE4, thanks to the much more improved dialog and abilities, it seems less of what RE1 tried to do, and this is where people think its lost that feeling. Its merely more realistic. because we all know how cheap the classic Re's dialog and overall cut scenes were. " Even if you want to call the game a "survival-horror," which it is not by any means, it doesn't save the derivative story. The story doesn't relate, isn't cohesive, and doesn't blend with the RE universe. This has led many fans to ignore the game or simply declare it a "spinoff" of the main series, which was essentially true but now with RE5 they seem to have split the universe in two." yes it is, RE4 has all those survival elements, to a less degree, but its still there, expeically HORROR. read the terms for god sakes. What is the RE universe? Cheesy dialog, with stiff and lifeless characters? just because you grew up on the older re's as a kid, doesn't mean its the true form...just because you remember the good old days and get all emotional. RE4, is much more of a realistic approach and still keeps the tension and surival horror aspect. its why its labelled it. PERIOD! spin it all you want. Saturos3091

wasn't talking about that, learn to read and using smily's doesn't make your post superior...just makes up for a good arguement. anways, in terms of dialog, gameplay, animations, moves etc...its much more realistic. Eyezonmii

[QUOTE="finalfantasy94"]

[QUOTE="Saturos3091"] Thanks. :) I don't think he's going to listen though, and nor will he read that great article by Kotaku.Eyezonmii

Just let him live in his world. Theres jsut no point in trying anymore.

IMO people have proved you wrong lots of times,but if you dont accept it then of course your not going to think you are wrong. If anything RE 4 is a suspense thriller/action shooter. Its all high action and explosions.

If im correct there was another thread about this a a couple of days ago. Anyway im gonna say the same thing.

Is RE4 a great game? YES

Is RE4 really a RE game (or in this case a Survival Horror game)? Well it has the RE name and the guys that sell it say its survival horror, so maybe yes, but IMO ill have to say no.

Did I enjoyed playing RE4? YES, so i dont care for anything else.

The series is now basically a TPS using the Resident Evil name. It got some needed boost because the camera thing was getting old, as well as the movement and the ink ribbon saving system. The problem is that in the process to bring it to modern days they focused in shoot-em-all gameplay, which is totally opposite to the previous Survival Horror focus. Obviously this made people that like Survival Horror games and RE purists mad.

Well then for the slow of wit please explain to us how Resident Evil 4 is packed with more survival, Horror, or Anxiety.Jynxzor

RE4 is more tension, anxiety and horrific built, than any RE to date...and thats a fact. You just don't get the same, elements from the older games, due to slow, simple and very EASY zombies, that can be walked around. SORRY. and the whole alone, erry music and empy mansion would only scare a 12 year old. (not calliing you that, but in general) they are cheap scares.Eyezonmii

Eyez, have you actually played any other older Resident Evils?foxhound_fox

oh yeh.

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"]RE4 is more tension, anxiety and horrific built, than any RE to date...and thats a fact. You just don't get the same, elements from the older games, due to slow, simple and very EASY zombies, that can be walked around. SORRY. and the whole alone, erry music and empy mansion would only scare a 12 year old. (not calliing you that, but in general) they are cheap scares.violent_spinal

Lets redo things, shall we.

Resident Evil 4, Has more tension and anxiety moments, than any other RE game. Now i use these 2 terms to add to the SURVIVAL feeling of the game...because without those 2 elements, it wouldn't be a survival game at all.

That being said, Those 2 elements are presented better in RE4 in many ways....

1. The villages, parasite, las plagues you encounter in RE4, come in packs/numbers, they attack, run and dodge you, by this they introduce a fear of being hunted, preyed upon, you're always moving, this creates tension/anxiety at the same time, expecially when you have a chainsaw maniac running after you, any sudden stop or reload action, he will simply cut off your head with a loud SCREAM! (believe me, thats a tense moment) (do MERCENARY, and have 2 of those guys after you.)See this was a great start for the game. Much better than the absolutely horrible castle segment and the boring island. What could've been excecuted well was completely destroyed by the game's ridiculous use of ammunition drops and the fact you're given such strong weapons (even the knife is incredibly powerful, especially as a support weapon). In Mercs you can just use Krauser or Hunk and snap their necks or blow the chainsaw women/El Salvator into pieces with one attack.

2. Horrific enemies, this simply gives the game a horror aspect, common sense, Point being RE4 has more deadly and HORRIFIC enemies over anything the ****c RE's had. The Regenerators, are probably the worst as normal weapons won't do jack, unless you use a sniper and target specific points with a thermal vision (This obviously isn't true. Ask anyone who's experimented with different weapons. ~2 clips of BB/K7 and the things are dead even without the scope (which is very easy due to the hit detection)), now doing this while the regenerator is creeping towards you creates tension, axiety, because once you miss, and then need to reload, he gets close and can attack..(This is where the open environments come in. You move back a bit since the Regenerators are ridiculously slow, reload, fire.) This adds to the surival and needing to be quick and accurate to surive the horrors. Among others are the parasite dogs, Chainsaw women/sack man and the flying parasites. Relates more to the "horror" than survival. Survival elements aren't related to tension/anxiety. Survival elements are more similar to adventure elements in that exploration is key, intellectual 'puzzles' (call them that if you will) are usually a part of the gameplay, and there's a strong feeling of weakness/hopelessness.

3. Being alone, Most parts leon does his job solo, with no partner to aid him in combat, in certain parts of the game, you feel this more so, due to the atmosphere, and sounds of the levels, it sets a mood, the jail cells for example keeps an freaky music and you can hear sounds of breathing of the regenerators, this creates fear of what might be lurking in the rooms/cells. Thought out the game in many parts you get this feeling.
Yet the sound in the older games is for "cheap scares?"


4. Button sequences, now i mention this with the addition of then factors above, since leon is being stalked and hunted, button sequences, adds tension and even more anxiety to SURVIVE the hell you are going through. being quick and timing your buttons right you can JUST make it out alive...this adds to the survival aspect of the game, easily. Something you don't worry about in other RE's.
Tension and anxiety are elements of horror. Not survival. They may come as a byproduct of survival (when in combat), but in this case they don't. They come only from the shock-oriented enemy design. "Survival elements are more similar to adventure elements in that exploration is key, intellectual 'puzzles' are usually a part of the gameplay, and there's a strong feeling of weakness/hopelessness." You only just make it out alive because it's a completely scripted event.

lucky last 5.

On professional difficulty, more so, Ammo depleats MUCH quicker, mainly due to the many of the infected villages are attacking you at once, this MANY of them creates definite anxiety, being chased and needing to run and use your weapons wisely...needing to know when to shoots and wear to RESERVE ammo for later HARDER battles. RE5 adds more survival aspect due to needing to worry about your partner and her health..she dies, you die...so sharing ammo, helping out is a must, but with the many more enemies, odds are slim...running and gunning only doesn't work and stragedy is evolved. The strategy that is evolved is quite simple. Point, aim, shoot. If you're out of ammunition, quite simply take out the knife. It gets things done rather easily, since after a quick stun you can suplex/kick which can stun an entire group of Ganados and give you momentary invincibility with the animation.

point being, This ANXIETY, TENSION RE4 has, adds to its survival aspect of it(I think you mean horror aspect of it. A 'horrific' environment doesn't add to the survival aspects at all), because its a game set in a horrific and fearful environment, with many lurking freaky enemies, since its a less of a true shooter (can't move and shoot, have constant dodge and quick movement buttons) it keeps true to the ****c re's with that sort of gunplay. Because its still a LIMITED SHOOTER, which require more skill in accuracy, stragedy and knowing when to shoot, move and reload. Unlke normal shooters, where you have a cover system, ability to reload and move, shoot and move, which kills the tension and makes things god easy. The ammunition drops, the merchant, Leon's large inventory, his large amount of health, and powerful weapons made the game easy enough. No need for that extra movement nonsense.

As with Resident Evil 5, we haven't seen much in terms of locations....capcom are keeping that hidden to not spoil the good parts, because in interviews they have claimed that the game has many scary and DARK bits, which the retro re fans will enjoy. Already playing the demo, ammo is less off and you can run out and die much quicker, even with a partner.

Now while some shooters like gears and others can be somewhat be called SURIVAL HORROR due to the contents of the game and setting, its simply called action, because its dwells more on that side of things, since the combat is much more ACTION, due to the cover system, reloading and moving, jumping, dodging, etc...and all that kills the tension and surival aspect. Because it makes things easier, both RE4 and RE5, are different for those reasons, of not being able to move and shoot, dodge when ever you like..so the CORE gameplay is pretty much the same as the past ones. with the additions of Melees, camera perspective, etc.

The term puzzles are used a lot, to add to survival, which i have no idea why, since it does jack in preserving the survival aspect..RE4's puzzles while short and simple, had a few hard ones (ashley,graveyard puzzles). Weren't really hard, and puzzles help further the adventure aspect that takes root in Survival games. They're that intellectual balance that keeps the game from becoming a mind-numbing shoot 'em up, as well as the environmental puzzles which are completed by exploration (such as the many keys, various progression items, etc. in the previous REs).

you see the overall core gameplay of RE4 is still the same, just shorten, simplified..concerning weaponary, puzzles...but the tension and axiety, atmosphere is still there and better than before. The atmosphere of tension and anxiety is there for the very first bit of the village (of course on your first runthrough), since at that point you don't know where to go or what to do and are still getting familiarized with the controls. It is absent from the rest of the game because by then you've got a whiny companion, numerous comedic characters, Leon's shown his poor character development, the story has been thrown out the window and thus can be disregarded, and you've got some ridiculously powerful weaponry. No need to worry anymore, because the enemies will just drop whatever you need from there on out.

past RE's were NEVER scary, they were cheap scares, done by weird music (Contradiction. Look at your point #3), empty mansions....so why should RE4 be Silent hill all of a sudden?It shouldn't be. It just needs to be a Survival Horror.

Just because the past RE's were more solo based and being a lone in a empty and quiet/darkened environments, doesn't make it any more of a survival horrror than RE4. IMO. It adds a lot more to the atmosphere. The gameplay where ammunition and health isn't being fed to you and you actually have to choose which battles to fight certainly makes it a much different experience.

People seemed to focuses on the many enemies and shooting aspect of RE4, that they forgot about the rest. Maybe you guys need to replay the game on PRO and come back and share your thoughts. Did two pro runthroughs already. Wasn't hard at all. As long as you know how to aim it's easy.

(soz for any typo's)

thank you. Eyezonmii

[QUOTE="violent_spinal"][QUOTE="Eyezonmii"]RE4 is more tension, anxiety and horrific built, than any RE to date...and thats a fact. You just don't get the same, elements from the older games, due to slow, simple and very EASY zombies, that can be walked around. SORRY. and the whole alone, erry music and empy mansion would only scare a 12 year old. (not calliing you that, but in general) they are cheap scares.Eyezonmii

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe it won all those awards because it was a shooter made to appeal to the masses? It's strayed far from the original formula which is why I see RE4 and most likely RE5 as disappointments. While I wholeheartedly agree with you that the camera angle change is a large improvement from the earlier games, the fact that hordes and hordes of enemies are thrown at you ruins the survival horror feeling that the earlier games had.

Also, on the topic of realism, crows dropping incendiary grenades pushes this on way up on the realism meter LOL.

Like I said before, you fanboys make me laugh.

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"]Lets redo things, shall we.

Resident Evil 4, Has more tension and anxiety moments, than any other RE game. Now i use these 2 terms to add to the SURVIVAL feeling of the game...because without those 2 elements, it wouldn't be a survival game at all.

That being said, Those 2 elements are presented better in RE4 in many ways....

1. The villages, parasite, las plagues you encounter in RE4, come in packs/numbers, they attack, run and dodge you, by this they introduce a fear of being hunted, preyed upon, you're always moving, this creates tension/anxiety at the same time, expecially when you have a chainsaw maniac running after you, any sudden stop or reload action, he will simply cut off your head with a loud SCREAM! (believe me, thats a tense moment) (do MERCENARY, and have 2 of those guys after you.)See this was a great start for the game. Much better than the absolutely horrible castle segment and the boring island. What could've been excecuted well was completely destroyed by the game's ridiculous use of ammunition drops and the fact you're given such strong weapons (even the knife is incredibly powerful, especially as a support weapon). In Mercs you can just use Krauser or Hunk and snap their necks or blow the chainsaw women/El Salvator into pieces with one attack.

2. Horrific enemies, this simply gives the game a horror aspect, common sense, Point being RE4 has more deadly and HORRIFIC enemies over anything the ****c RE's had. The Regenerators, are probably the worst as normal weapons won't do jack, unless you use a sniper and target specific points with a thermal vision (This obviously isn't true. Ask anyone who's experimented with different weapons. ~2 clips of BB/K7 and the things are dead even without the scope (which is very easy due to the hit detection)), now doing this while the regenerator is creeping towards you creates tension, axiety, because once you miss, and then need to reload, he gets close and can attack..(This is where the open environments come in. You move back a bit since the Regenerators are ridiculously slow, reload, fire.) This adds to the surival and needing to be quick and accurate to surive the horrors. Among others are the parasite dogs, Chainsaw women/sack man and the flying parasites. Relates more to the "horror" than survival. Survival elements aren't related to tension/anxiety. Survival elements are more similar to adventure elements in that exploration is key, intellectual 'puzzles' (call them that if you will) are usually a part of the gameplay, and there's a strong feeling of weakness/hopelessness.

3. Being alone, Most parts leon does his job solo, with no partner to aid him in combat, in certain parts of the game, you feel this more so, due to the atmosphere, and sounds of the levels, it sets a mood, the jail cells for example keeps an freaky music and you can hear sounds of breathing of the regenerators, this creates fear of what might be lurking in the rooms/cells. Thought out the game in many parts you get this feeling.
Yet the sound in the older games is for "cheap scares?"


4. Button sequences, now i mention this with the addition of then factors above, since leon is being stalked and hunted, button sequences, adds tension and even more anxiety to SURVIVE the hell you are going through. being quick and timing your buttons right you can JUST make it out alive...this adds to the survival aspect of the game, easily. Something you don't worry about in other RE's.
Tension and anxiety are elements of horror. Not survival. They may come as a byproduct of survival (when in combat), but in this case they don't. They come only from the shock-oriented enemy design. "Survival elements are more similar to adventure elements in that exploration is key, intellectual 'puzzles' are usually a part of the gameplay, and there's a strong feeling of weakness/hopelessness." You only just make it out alive because it's a completely scripted event.

lucky last 5.

On professional difficulty, more so, Ammo depleats MUCH quicker, mainly due to the many of the infected villages are attacking you at once, this MANY of them creates definite anxiety, being chased and needing to run and use your weapons wisely...needing to know when to shoots and wear to RESERVE ammo for later HARDER battles. RE5 adds more survival aspect due to needing to worry about your partner and her health..she dies, you die...so sharing ammo, helping out is a must, but with the many more enemies, odds are slim...running and gunning only doesn't work and stragedy is evolved. The strategy that is evolved is quite simple. Point, aim, shoot. If you're out of ammunition, quite simply take out the knife. It gets things done rather easily, since after a quick stun you can suplex/kick which can stun an entire group of Ganados and give you momentary invincibility with the animation.

point being, This ANXIETY, TENSION RE4 has, adds to its survival aspect of it(I think you mean horror aspect of it. A 'horrific' environment doesn't add to the survival aspects at all), because its a game set in a horrific and fearful environment, with many lurking freaky enemies, since its a less of a true shooter (can't move and shoot, have constant dodge and quick movement buttons) it keeps true to the ****c re's with that sort of gunplay. Because its still a LIMITED SHOOTER, which require more skill in accuracy, stragedy and knowing when to shoot, move and reload. Unlke normal shooters, where you have a cover system, ability to reload and move, shoot and move, which kills the tension and makes things god easy. The ammunition drops, the merchant, Leon's large inventory, his large amount of health, and powerful weapons made the game easy enough. No need for that extra movement nonsense.

As with Resident Evil 5, we haven't seen much in terms of locations....capcom are keeping that hidden to not spoil the good parts, because in interviews they have claimed that the game has many scary and DARK bits, which the retro re fans will enjoy. Already playing the demo, ammo is less off and you can run out and die much quicker, even with a partner.

Now while some shooters like gears and others can be somewhat be called SURIVAL HORROR due to the contents of the game and setting, its simply called action, because its dwells more on that side of things, since the combat is much more ACTION, due to the cover system, reloading and moving, jumping, dodging, etc...and all that kills the tension and surival aspect. Because it makes things easier, both RE4 and RE5, are different for those reasons, of not being able to move and shoot, dodge when ever you like..so the CORE gameplay is pretty much the same as the past ones. with the additions of Melees, camera perspective, etc.

The term puzzles are used a lot, to add to survival, which i have no idea why, since it does jack in preserving the survival aspect..RE4's puzzles while short and simple, had a few hard ones (ashley,graveyard puzzles). Weren't really hard, and puzzles help further the adventure aspect that takes root in Survival games. They're that intellectual balance that keeps the game from becoming a mind-numbing shoot 'em up, as well as the environmental puzzles which are completed by exploration (such as the many keys, various progression items, etc. in the previous REs).

you see the overall core gameplay of RE4 is still the same, just shorten, simplified..concerning weaponary, puzzles...but the tension and axiety, atmosphere is still there and better than before. The atmosphere of tension and anxiety is there for the very first bit of the village (of course on your first runthrough), since at that point you don't know where to go or what to do and are still getting familiarized with the controls. It is absent from the rest of the game because by then you've got a whiny companion, numerous comedic characters, Leon's shown his poor character development, the story has been thrown out the window and thus can be disregarded, and you've got some ridiculously powerful weaponry. No need to worry anymore, because the enemies will just drop whatever you need from there on out.

past RE's were NEVER scary, they were cheap scares, done by weird music (Contradiction. Look at your point #3), empty mansions....so why should RE4 be Silent hill all of a sudden?It shouldn't be. It just needs to be a Survival Horror.

Just because the past RE's were more solo based and being a lone in a empty and quiet/darkened environments, doesn't make it any more of a survival horrror than RE4. IMO. It adds a lot more to the atmosphere. The gameplay where ammunition and health isn't being fed to you and you actually have to choose which battles to fight certainly makes it a much different experience.

People seemed to focuses on the many enemies and shooting aspect of RE4, that they forgot about the rest. Maybe you guys need to replay the game on PRO and come back and share your thoughts. Did two pro runthroughs already. Wasn't hard at all. As long as you know how to aim it's easy.

(soz for any typo's)

thank you. Saturos3091

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"][QUOTE="violent_spinal"]
Definitely in your experience.
I mean, I don't know how much you know of the genre.

Maybe RE4 is all you know.
Maybe you just don't know any better.

I can say this much. My little brother wont play the other RE games. He just doens't like the feeling he gets while playing them.
He has played and completed RE4 probably more times than I. And, that would have to be a lot.

That says something.Imperius112

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe it won all those awards because it was a shooter made to appeal to the masses? It's strayed far from the original formula which is why I see RE4 and most likely RE5 as disappointments. While I wholeheartedly agree with you that the camera angle change is a large improvement from the earlier games, the fact that hordes and hordes of enemies are thrown at you ruins the survival horror feeling that the earlier games had.

Also, on the topic of realism, crows dropping incendiary grenades pushes this on way up on the realism meter LOL.

Like I said before, you fanboys make me laugh.

[QUOTE="Imperius112"]

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"] Maybe because the past Re's feel broken and stale, compared to RE4? (limited security-like camera, slow and unrealistic gameplay) can't blame him. I love the older games, but RE4 is MUCH MUCH better, reason it outscored all the past ones and won so many awards. Eyezonmii

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe it won all those awards because it was a shooter made to appeal to the masses? It's strayed far from the original formula which is why I see RE4 and most likely RE5 as disappointments. While I wholeheartedly agree with you that the camera angle change is a large improvement from the earlier games, the fact that hordes and hordes of enemies are thrown at you ruins the survival horror feeling that the earlier games had.

Also, on the topic of realism, crows dropping incendiary grenades pushes this on way up on the realism meter LOL.

Like I said before, you fanboys make me laugh.

First off, I know you didn't mean realism that way. Just adding a bit of comedy to keep this argument from getting boring since you conveniently skip over anything that could ever be a possible threat to derail you laughable argument.

Second, when applying your definition of survival, apparently all games where you need to kill enemies to keep you from dying is survival horror. The game spoonfeeds you all the ammo you could ever need and more, and like someone mentioned early "Leon is a walking tank". Those two factors alone take away from the survival horror elements immensely because it takes away the fear of being killed or running out of ammo.

Thirdly, if you had thoroughly read my post (which I doubt you did) I was all for the camera change to make the controls less clunky.

This time, read, comprehend, THEN post.

Your turn.

[QUOTE="Saturos3091"]

4. Button sequences, now i mention this with the addition of then factors above, since leon is being stalked and hunted, button sequences, adds tension and even more anxiety to SURVIVE the hell you are going through. being quick and timing your buttons right you can JUST make it out alive...this adds to the survival aspect of the game, easily. Something you don't worry about in other RE's.
Tension and anxiety are elements of horror. Not survival. They may come as a byproduct of survival (when in combat), but in this case they don't. They come only from the shock-oriented enemy design. "Survival elements are more similar to adventure elements in that exploration is key, intellectual 'puzzles' are usually a part of the gameplay, and there's a strong feeling of weakness/hopelessness." You only just make it out alive because it's a completely scripted event.
you see the overall core gameplay of RE4 is still the same, just shorten, simplified..concerning weaponary, puzzles...but the tension and axiety, atmosphere is still there and better than before. The atmosphere of tension and anxiety is there for the very first bit of the village (of course on your first runthrough), since at that point you don't know where to go or what to do and are still getting familiarized with the controls. It is absent from the rest of the game because by then you've got a whiny companion, numerous comedic characters, Leon's shown his poor character development, the story has been thrown out the window and thus can be disregarded, and you've got some ridiculously powerful weaponry. No need to worry anymore, because the enemies will just drop whatever you need from there on out.Eyezonmii

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"][QUOTE="Imperius112"]

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe it won all those awards because it was a shooter made to appeal to the masses? It's strayed far from the original formula which is why I see RE4 and most likely RE5 as disappointments. While I wholeheartedly agree with you that the camera angle change is a large improvement from the earlier games, the fact that hordes and hordes of enemies are thrown at you ruins the survival horror feeling that the earlier games had.

Also, on the topic of realism, crows dropping incendiary grenades pushes this on way up on the realism meter LOL.

Like I said before, you fanboys make me laugh.

Imperius112

First off, I know you didn't mean realism that way. Just adding a bit of comedy to keep this argument from getting boring since you conveniently skip over anything that could ever be a possible threat to derail you laughable argument.

Second, when applying your definition of survival, apparently all games where you need to kill enemies to keep you from dying is survival horror. The game spoonfeeds you all the ammo you could ever need and more, and like someone mentioned early "Leon is a walking tank". Those two factors alone take away from the survival horror elements immensely because it takes away the fear of being killed or running out of ammo.

Thirdly, if you had thoroughly read my post (which I doubt you did) I was all for the camera change to make the controls less clunky.

This time, read, comprehend, THEN post.

Your turn.

how does the horror/survial element stay when you have enough ammo to shoot anything that dares stand in your way? face is RE4/5 ARE NOT SURVIVAL HORROR games. i'm not saying RE4/5 are/will be bad just that they are more actoin adventure than survival horror. another note while some animations have been tweaked there are alot of animations that are complete copies from RE4 like when you shoot them in the knee and especially some headshot animations.Ragashahs

[QUOTE="Ragashahs"]how does the horror/survial element stay when you have enough ammo to shoot anything that dares stand in your way? face is RE4/5 ARE NOT SURVIVAL HORROR games. i'm not saying RE4/5 are/will be bad just that they are more actoin adventure than survival horror. another note while some animations have been tweaked there are alot of animations that are complete copies from RE4 like when you shoot them in the knee and especially some headshot animations.Eyezonmii

Lets break it down shall we? 1-In short your saying a village full of parasitic monsters is more scary than a town of zombies? In a foreign town you expect to be alone and distraught from your surroundings a small outskirt spanish town is nowhere anyone would go into thinking happy thoughts. A city is a place of social interaction the people there your friends, maybe even familly. Thinking just the fact that the T-Virus has changed the people you loved and cared into mindless killing machines is enough. Givin Leon was new to the town, Clair had his brother stationed here. So not only do we have Leon seeing his new home destroyed before he can even find his co-workers turned into flesh eating machines Clair lost her only link to here familly lost into what she may have thought for some time the stomaches of ghouls. Resident evil before 4 represented a post apocalyptic view of a city ravaged by a killer virus, people betrayed eachother, killed eachother, stole from eachother. Umbrella went in to kill one of there head researchers just to secure the Virus sample he was working on...that backfired. Resident Evil 4 was a utopia for free roaming around your set "Killzone" even containing many safe points to easilly pick these tense villagers off from, especially the so mentioned "Sack chainsaw guys" could not even climb ladders let alone chase you very fast. Resident Evil was set in a mansion, police station, and the city in ruins, each game was very cramped and loaded with enemies ready to lop your head of with the slightest mis-step. "Mercenary mode" is a mini-game it's not tense or scary it's meant to be action packed fun, if you got scared from it....please. So I don't see how any of this adds tension, and please the regenerators were not hard to kill with a well place shotgun blast or thermal gogles that the game aptly supplies you. 2- Regenerators quick? You obviously never tried shooting from a distance. or did you just blow there legs off early to add to how "Pro" your difficulty mode was. 3- Your all alone? You meet about as many people as you do in any other Resident Evil game, one of which like many games promptly dies after becoming bareable. and the fact that you supposidly have constant support via your walkie talkie TV doesnt help create the atmosphere of being alone. I agree that Regenerators and the Blind plagas were a nice twist but nothing that hasn't been experimented with before in previous games just stretched the idea around. Lickers were blind as well, and the Leech man loved to regenerate as well...and was made of leeches. 4- You are using Quicktime events to define this as a "Survival aspect" Leon runs away from boulders in a stylish manner he doesnt stare at the screen praying he can press the A button fast enough to only find the game wanted him to press B, too bad try again. Quick time events if anything BREAK the imersion into the game, making it if anything less tense. 5-You complain about the archaic movement scheme in Resident Evil of past limiting you. Yet you say the game makes tension by making you stop to shoot, stop to relode, stope to do many other things as well as remain stationary to knife? ...You don't see the contradiction in that? They artificially created controls to limit your movement much like past games....so it adds NOTHING NEW to the scaryness if thats what you try to call it. If you think turning a game on PRO mode makes it survival horror, try Ninja Gaiden...it's a nightmare to play on the hardest setting I guess it's Survival Horror Ninja style!. Please don't tell me you think the aiming system in the game was not rediculously easy, the game pretty much told you to NOT SHOOT THE HEAD because of the odd chance the enemy may become even more deadly because you were actually trying to kill the monster with a headshot instead of aiming at the center mass of the target. You say that just because previous games are based on being alone and in dark places it makes it not more Survival horror, yet previously you stated Resident Evil 4 made you feel more alone than any other game. I grant Resident Evil 5 is taking BABY STEPS, and I mean very small baby steps to reclaiming itself in the genre. The matter of fact is that Capcom could care less about what we fans think, they gave into the mass market that craves Third person shooters more than they do Survival Horror. Until the market demands a Survival Horror game Capcom will continue to make Resident evil a diluted Third person shooter. with gimicks to attempt fooling people into thinking it has any link to it's roots. When the gaming media accepts it as a survival horror game by right and not just by title give me a call, until then the majority rules over you and if your standard is ever accepted as Survival Horror then the genre has spiraled far from its glory days. They should be reinvented the genre, not burying it in the ground. -Peace.Jynxzor

Could you turn that wall of text into some paragraphs please? It would be much easier to read.

Survival horror should make you turn on the lights more often because of fear. RE4 has no fear and neither will RE5. Survival horror is all about fear and not action. Fatal Frame is a prime example and so is the earlier Silent Hills. RE4 and RE5 are not survival horror.dream431ca

[QUOTE="Eyezonmii"][QUOTE="Ragashahs"]how does the horror/survial element stay when you have enough ammo to shoot anything that dares stand in your way? face is RE4/5 ARE NOT SURVIVAL HORROR games. i'm not saying RE4/5 are/will be bad just that they are more actoin adventure than survival horror. another note while some animations have been tweaked there are alot of animations that are complete copies from RE4 like when you shoot them in the knee and especially some headshot animations.Ragashahs

Kinda hard with 20 of you sharing opinions on the matter, don't you think.... Lets forget the ammunition and weaponary, think gameplay(The guns and weaponry, as well as the healing items, Leon's health, etc. are all interlinked with the gameplay. They are part of it.).its limited and isn't like your known shooter, its kept to the point where, tension can be kept and anxiety when played...from reloading, movement,etc. That alone keeps the game a survival one. Since not everything can be shot through. Is the point i'm trying to make. The definition of survival is a simple one, google it. Same goes for HORROR, doesn't take much brain power to see RE4 as one. (Apparently you can't read, nor can you comprehend that the genre is defined by more than just the definition of the 2 words) Just haters who have a grudge against the new mechanics of gameplay (nothing wrong with it (well, in general), it's just not Survival Horror). RE4 on pro and even on normal, has you sometimes out of ammo and needing to reserve it and save shots, bosses, like Krause arn't easy to beat (learn to shoot at the feet, knife when stunned, dead. He's VERY easy. Ammunition is very easy to come by since you have a merchant and you can upgrade your overpowered weapons even moreso. Enemies drop ammunition when you need it and supply you with healing items as well. Try aiming and you won't have any problem with ammo)and guns isn't an option, since you have a time limit, surival is all over the game. (Not survival you're referring to. Tension and anxiety are horror elements related to the atmosphere, while survival is mostly related to the gameplay.) using your knife plays a big role in the game too. I've mentioned all this before, read it good. then try and shoot them down..

i've admitted that RE4's version of what made the ****c more survival has been cut in half, but RE4 has created a better level fo fear and tension with the enemies and this all adds to the survial aspect of it. Spin it all you want, but RE4 is a SURIVAL HORROR, it only wouldn't be if you could jump around anytime you want, take cover anytime you want, like gears or traditional shooters. play it on Proffessional, its much harder and limited to that of the ****c re's. i'm done..repeating my self...just ***** me when close minded people say its full blown action. Eyezonmii

[QUOTE="Imperius112"][QUOTE="Eyezonmii"] yep, misinterpret my statements, i didn't mean realism in that way. as for the rest, it changed from the original formula because it was STALE BORING AND OLD, it didn't work anymore. Survival in RE4 is much more richer and real, having to do what ever means necessary to survive....melee, throw grenades, aim at specific body parts and not feel limited with the broken gameplay and camera system that was done in the past re's. Eyezonmii

First off, I know you didn't mean realism that way. Just adding a bit of comedy to keep this argument from getting boring since you conveniently skip over anything that could ever be a possible threat to derail you laughable argument.

Second, when applying your definition of survival, apparently all games where you need to kill enemies to keep you from dying is survival horror. The game spoonfeeds you all the ammo you could ever need and more, and like someone mentioned early "Leon is a walking tank". Those two factors alone take away from the survival horror elements immensely because it takes away the fear of being killed or running out of ammo.

Thirdly, if you had thoroughly read my post (which I doubt you did) I was all for the camera change to make the controls less clunky.

This time, read, comprehend, THEN post.

Your turn.

Okay, now that I've stopped laughing I'm going to say this:

The gameplay is very much like a shooter (point, shoot, run to next area). The fact that game is very linear and there's almost not surprises just re-enforce this. I've beaten the game 8 times. 5 on normal and 3 on professional. I've never run out of ammo either. Like Saturos mentioned earlier, it's not hard as long as you know how to aim. Thus the atmostphere is never really tense unless you're scared of your own shadow.

Using a knife is absolutely pointless for most of the game as you can blast through just about almost everything. Conserving ammo would be the only logical use for it but because you have as much ammo as Bill Gates has money, that is never a problem. The issue of survival surfaces again.

If the game was actually challenging I'd give your argument more credit. Unfortunately, it was more like romping through a field of flowers while dodging the occaisonal and blatently obvious pothole thrown at you. And that's just solved by pulling out your RPG.

And I've reserved ammo/saved weapons in other games like Gears of War 2 and almost every other shooter I've played. Does that make them survival horror?

You also have introduced in your post that the concept of timed boss fights is also survival horror. Buh?! Your logic just absolutely baffles me.

Now, if you would so kindly ignore my well thought out points and regurgitate your points from the first post, I'd be very grateful. I'm finding it extremely entertaining to dismantle your feeble attempts at an arguement.

sorry. and play krauser...and tell me his EASY on pro. yeh right. Eyezonmii

[QUOTE="Ragashahs"][QUOTE="Eyezonmii"] NO you don't have enough ammo to kill everything, especially on pro. I've run out of them so many times...same goes for health...stop lying. GO play the game again. Eyezonmii

Lets redo things, shall we.

Resident Evil 4, Has more tension and anxiety moments, than any other RE game. Now i use these 2 terms to add to the SURVIVAL feeling of the game...because without those 2 elements, it wouldn't be a survival game at all.

That being said, Those 2 elements are presented better in RE4 in many ways....

1. The villages, parasite, las plagues you encounter in RE4, come in packs/numbers, they attack, run and dodge you, by this they introduce a fear of being hunted, preyed upon, you're always moving, this creates tension/anxiety at the same time, expecially when you have a chainsaw maniac running after you, any sudden stop or reload action, he will simply cut off your head with a loud SCREAM! (believe me, thats a tense moment) (do MERCENARY, and have 2 of those guys after you.)

2. Horrific enemies, this simply gives the game a horror aspect, common sense, Point being RE4 has more deadly and HORRIFIC enemies over anything the ****c RE's had. The Regenerators, are probably the worst as normal weapons won't do jack, unless you use a sniper and target specific points with a thermal vision, now doing this while the regenerator is creeping towards you creates tension, axiety, because once you miss, and then need to reload, he gets close and can attack.. This adds to the surival and needing to be quick and accurate to surive the horrors. Among others are the parasite dogs, Chainsaw women/sack man and the flying parasites.

3. Being alone, Most parts leon does his job solo, with no partner to aid him in combat, in certain parts of the game, you feel this more so, due to the atmosphere, and sounds of the levels, it sets a mood, the jail cells for example keeps an freaky music and you can hear sounds of breathing of the regenerators, this creates fear of what might be lurking in the rooms/cells. Thought out the game in many parts you get this feeling.

4. Button sequences, now i mention this with the addition of then factors above, since leon is being stalked and hunted, button sequences, adds tension and even more anxiety to SURVIVE the hell you are going through. being quick and timing your buttons right you can JUST make it out alive...this adds to the survival aspect of the game, easily. Something you don't worry about in other RE's.

lucky last 5.

On professional difficulty, more so, Ammo depleats MUCH quicker, mainly due to the many of the infected villages are attacking you at once, this MANY of them creates definite anxiety, being chased and needing to run and use your weapons wisely...needing to know when to shoots and wear to RESERVE ammo for later HARDER battles. RE5 adds more survival aspect due to needing to worry about your partner and her health..she dies, you die...so sharing ammo, helping out is a must, but with the many more enemies, odds are slim...running and gunning only doesn't work and stragedy is evolved.

point being, This ANXIETY, TENSION RE4 has, adds to its survival aspect of it, because its a game set in a horrific and fearful environment, with many lurking freaky enemies, since its a less of a true shooter (can't move and shoot, have constant dodge and quick movement buttons) it keeps true to the ****c re's with that sort of gunplay. Because its still a LIMITED SHOOTER, which require more skill in accuracy, stragedy and knowing when to shoot, move and reload. Unlke normal shooters, where you have a cover system, ability to reload and move, shoot and move, which kills the tension and makes things god easy.

As with Resident Evil 5, we haven't seen much in terms of locations....capcom are keeping that hidden to not spoil the good parts, because in interviews they have claimed that the game has many scary and DARK bits, which the retro re fans will enjoy. Already playing the demo, ammo is less off and you can run out and die much quicker, even with a partner.

Now while some shooters like gears and others can be somewhat be called SURIVAL HORROR due to the contents of the game and setting, its simply called action, because its dwells more on that side of things, since the combat is much more ACTION, due to the cover system, reloading and moving, jumping, dodging, etc...and all that kills the tension and surival aspect. Because it makes things easier, both RE4 and RE5, are different for those reasons, of not being able to move and shoot, dodge when ever you like..so the CORE gameplay is pretty much the same as the past ones. with the additions of Melees, camera perspective, etc.

The term puzzles are used a lot, to add to survival, which i have no idea why, since it does jack in preserving the survival aspect..RE4's puzzles while short and simple, had a few hard ones (ashley,graveyard puzzles).

you see the overall core gameplay of RE4 is still the same, just shorten, simplified..concerning weaponary, puzzles...but the tension and axiety, atmosphere is still there and better than before.

past RE's were NEVER scary, they were cheap scares, done by weird music, empty mansions....so why should RE4 be Silent hill all of a sudden?

Just because the past RE's were more solo based and being a lone in a empty and quiet/darkened environments, doesn't make it any more of a survival horrror than RE4. IMO.

People seemed to focuses on the many enemies and shooting aspect of RE4, that they forgot about the rest. Maybe you guys need to replay the game on PRO and come back and share your thoughts.

(soz for any typo's)

thank you. Eyezonmii

RE4 and RE5 are not survival horror...................FACT!

Could you turn that wall of text into some paragraphs please? It would be much easier to read.dream431ca