Let's squash this myth that PC gaming isnt much more expensive than consoles.

It is more expensive, but not *much* more expensive. Especially, if you consider that PC games are cheaper. Over the course of 12 years what you save in PC games can be significant. Also, you can't simply take into account the console cost, you need to factor in additional controllers, etc. Still, comparing PC vs consoles based on cost-only is a discussion I never participate in, PC is more expensive, period. You get what you pay for though.

markinthedark: In a very general way, computers are actually productivity devices. It may surprise you to learn this, but people actually use computers to aid them for work and utility purposes. The modern world today is run by very powerful computers. You can't turn around and not run into one. Many people upgrade comps every few years the way they upgrade their personal accessories. Regardless, you need to upgrade every 5 years to get maximum compatibility with word processing and similar such applications, particularly for heavy database users.roxlimn

right you cant run microsoft word on a PC thats over 5 years old.

and what heavy database uses are you doing on a personal computer?

and yea, the world is run by powerful computers.... but not by YOUR computer.

[QUOTE="roxlimn"]markinthedark: You're wrong, man. Let it go.markinthedark

I've spent about £100 more on PC gaming, then console gaming. I've owned all consoles from the Playstation 1 days up until this gen, except the PS3.

(only counting the system cost, not games, but PC games tend to be cheaper so...)

[QUOTE="roxlimn"]markinthedark: In a very general way, computers are actually productivity devices. It may surprise you to learn this, but people actually use computers to aid them for work and utility purposes. The modern world today is run by very powerful computers. You can't turn around and not run into one. Many people upgrade comps every few years the way they upgrade their personal accessories. Regardless, you need to upgrade every 5 years to get maximum compatibility with word processing and similar such applications, particularly for heavy database users.markinthedark

right you cant run microsoft word on a PC thats over 5 years old.

and what heavy database uses are you doing on a personal computer?

and yea, the world is run by powerful computers.... but not by YOUR computer.

Have you tried using an ancient PC in this day and age, compared to a relatively fast one? New Office software is more powerful then Word 97. :P

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="lucfonzy"] Dude, you always make such good use of the facts! I love you :)markinthedark

Try The True Cost of Console Ownership in 2009 for more fun facts. $1900 if you own all three and accessories. This doesn't include an HDTV when bought for the enjoyment of gaming or audio equipment for said purposes.

does that mean the true cost of PC gaming is always having top of the line hardware? and buying every new upgrade that comes out?

are we comparing the maximum cost of PC gaming and console gaming now?

You have changed the "rules" of the argument many times in this thread. As noted, you want to include all the peripherals for the PC like a monitor, audio and the like, yet disallow a TV bought especially for gaming. I don't need to buy a new monitor, mouse or keyboard when I want a new PC. As shown, used parts (or even older new parts) can bring the cost of a PC down even further, but you really dislike that and try to argue that it has to be a new console and a new PC. Parts new or used, when put together the first time makes it new.

People on here want to say that they buy used console games yet do not want to allow discounted prices on PC games. Much of the arguments are apples and oranges. If you plan on discounting arguments such as PC gamers are cheaper due to sales and normal price reductions over time, then used game sales should not play a part of the argument either.

The console is cheaper argument would be totally out of the window if console makers were to quit selling the hardware at a loss (the Wii is the exception this time). At launch, the PS3 would have cost over $800 (you already have stated you wouldn't buy one at that price point, but how many others would?) or the $627 or more for an X360? The fact is, consoles of this generation are not cheaper than a PC that could run comparably to the consoles. It is an illusion that consolites do not want to face the facts of.

Why use an Office suite as an example when even MS Office 2007 Enterprise only requires a 500 mhz CPU and 256mb RAM? Same for Office 2010.

[QUOTE="roxlimn"]markinthedark: In a very general way, computers are actually productivity devices. It may surprise you to learn this, but people actually use computers to aid them for work and utility purposes. The modern world today is run by very powerful computers. You can't turn around and not run into one. Many people upgrade comps every few years the way they upgrade their personal accessories. Regardless, you need to upgrade every 5 years to get maximum compatibility with word processing and similar such applications, particularly for heavy database users.markinthedark

right you cant run microsoft word on a PC thats over 5 years old.

and what heavy database uses are you doing on a personal computer?

and yea, the world is run by powerful computers.... but not by YOUR computer.

Have you tried using an ancient PC in this day and age, compared to a relatively fast one? New Office software is more powerful then Word 97. :P

WhenCicadasCry

Have you tried using a single-core since the inception of dual's? I had to stick more RAM in my GF's parents comp... Let's just say, this thing went slower than a hedgehog stuck in a mud-pit.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"][QUOTE="roxlimn"]markinthedark: You're wrong, man. Let it go.WhenCicadasCry

I've spent about £100 more on PC gaming, then console gaming. I've owned all consoles from the Playstation 1 days up until this gen, but I haven't owned a PS3 this gen.

(only counting the system cost, not games, but PC games tend to be cheaper so...)

consoles are different platforms.... it only requires owning a single console to be a console gamer.

again this is more of a maximum PC price vs maximum console price debate you are getting into here... wrong thread, take it somewhere else.

Patient data Inventory logbooks Sales summaries Population census Memorandum save files Invoice save files Customer service logsroxlimn

ahh yes i forget everyone needs a new PC every 3 years to process their patient data and inventory... god knows what i would do without that information. How foolish of me to forget.

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

Have you tried using an ancient PC in this day and age, compared to a relatively fast one? New Office software is more powerful then Word 97. :P

lundy86_4

Have you tried using a single-core since the inception of dual's? I had to stick more RAM in my GF's parents comp... Let's just say, this thing went slower than a hedgehog stuck in a mud-pit.

Yup, my old PC is now in the living room, and it always stops responding for a good 30 seconds occasionally. It's equipped with a 3ghz P4, 1gig of RAM and a x800 XT. :P New PC enviroment =/= old enviroment.

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

Have you tried using an ancient PC in this day and age, compared to a relatively fast one? New Office software is more powerful then Word 97. :P

lundy86_4

Have you tried using a single-core since the inception of dual's? I had to stick more RAM in my GF's parents comp... Let's just say, this thing went slower than a hedgehog stuck in a mud-pit.

yea my PC that died 6 months ago had a single core AMD Athlon in it... my GF was using it to game up until the day it died. And it could play oblivion on high settings... definitely could run microsoft office.

Yup, my old PC is now in the living room, and it always stops responding for a good 30 seconds occasionally. It's equipped with a 3ghz P4, 1gig of RAM and a x800 XT. :P New PC enviroment =/= old enviroment.

WhenCicadasCry

Nope, they're pretty bad nowadays. Especially in terms of multi-tasking... At all.

markinthedark: Quit making such foolish remarks! Obviously, not everyone has uses for every single application, but computer use these days in all aspects of work is so universal that it pays to be updated. Even writers who can afford it have the newest hardware, so that they don't have to wait forever for their units to boot when they have something they want to type out. You're either in a very backwards section of your industry, or you don't work. I'm guessing it's the latter.roxlimn

your right i dont work, but i maintained databases for a fortune 500 company up until i was recently laid off.

and my company always supplied me with a work laptop... i wasnt even allowed to access their databases from a personal computer because it was a security risk.

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

Yup, my old PC is now in the living room, and it always stops responding for a good 30 seconds occasionally. It's equipped with a 3ghz P4, 1gig of RAM and a x800 XT. :P New PC enviroment =/= old enviroment.

lundy86_4

Nope, they're pretty bad nowadays. Especially in terms of multi-tasking... At all.

That's what I said. :evil:

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

Have you tried using an ancient PC in this day and age, compared to a relatively fast one? New Office software is more powerful then Word 97. :P

markinthedark

Have you tried using a single-core since the inception of dual's? I had to stick more RAM in my GF's parents comp... Let's just say, this thing went slower than a hedgehog stuck in a mud-pit.

yea my PC that died 6 months ago had a single core AMD Athlon in it... my GF was using it to game up until the day it died. And it could play oblivion on high settings... definitely could run microsoft office.

A lot of newer software isn't optimized to run well with such badly outdated hardware. I haven't tried running a newer MS Office on a single-core system, so I couldn't comment.

My response was strictly in terms of general use on things like single-cores.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

Yup, my old PC is now in the living room, and it always stops responding for a good 30 seconds occasionally. It's equipped with a 3ghz P4, 1gig of RAM and a x800 XT. :P New PC enviroment =/= old enviroment.

WhenCicadasCry

Nope, they're pretty bad nowadays. Especially in terms of multi-tasking... At all.

That's what I said. :evil:

Come on... I'm a parrot! Wait... Wut? :|

Anyways, i'd like to see some benchmarks of newer software running on old hardware (outside of games). Would be interesting to see.

[QUOTE="roxlimn"]markinthedark: Quit making such foolish remarks! Obviously, not everyone has uses for every single application, but computer use these days in all aspects of work is so universal that it pays to be updated. Even writers who can afford it have the newest hardware, so that they don't have to wait forever for their units to boot when they have something they want to type out. You're either in a very backwards section of your industry, or you don't work. I'm guessing it's the latter.markinthedark

your right i dont work, but i maintained databases for a fortune 500 company up until i was recently laid off.

and my company always supplied me with a work laptop... i wasnt even allowed to access their databases from a personal computer because it was a security risk.

[QUOTE="WhenCicadasCry"]

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

Nope, they're pretty bad nowadays. Especially in terms of multi-tasking... At all.

lundy86_4

That's what I said. :evil:

Come on... I'm a parrot! Wait... Wut? :|

Anyways, i'd like to see some benchmarks of newer software running on old hardware (outside of games). Would be interesting to see.

Well, from personal experience, a Pentium 4 does not like Publisher 2010.

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

does that mean the true cost of PC gaming is always having top of the line hardware? and buying every new upgrade that comes out?

are we comparing the maximum cost of PC gaming and console gaming now?

markinthedark

who buys a PC every few years that doesnt play games? what would be the point?

A lot of newer software isn't optimized to run well with such badly outdated hardware. I haven't tried running a newer MS Office on a single-core system, so I couldn't comment.

My response was strictly in terms of general use on things like single-cores.

lundy86_4

I have. My uncle has an old Athlon XP 2100+ with a GF4-Ti4200 (almost like mine except no ViVo), XP Pro, and 256mb RAM. We installed Office 2007 on it which chugged pretty bad until we bumped up the RAM to 1gb. He didn't like the style of Office 2007 and so, reverted back to Office 2003.

Well, from personal experience, a Pentium 4 does not like Publisher 2010.

WhenCicadasCry

That doesn't surprise me (it's been years since i've used Publisher), but software like Photoshop CS5 would probably just laugh at the puny computer :P

I have. My uncle has an old Athlon XP 2100+ with a GF4-Ti4200 (almost like mine except no ViVo), XP Pro, and 256mb RAM. We installed Office 2007 on it which chugged pretty bad until we bumped up the RAM to 1gb. He didn't like the style of Office 2007 and so, reverted back to Office 2003.

jun_aka_pekto

It's understandable that newer software is written for more updated rigs... Otherwise we'd all still be using comps with that much RAM, etc.

I actually like the look of the new Office (2007+), which surprised me, took me a little bit to get used to though.

I assume we're comparing budget PC gaming to Console gaming here right?

Because enthusiasts PC gaming takes it to a level where consoles don't even exist. And yes, then it becomes really expensive.

I consider my rig to have high end "budget" specs (I spent a decent amount of extra gold on improving cabinet, PSU and other stuff I did'nt need as such) and I havent done anything to it since late 08 (where I bought it) apart from sidegrade the gfx card to a dx11 compliant version (speedwise) of the GTX285 I used to have. I'm going to add another GTX460 to it at that's my rig settled till 2015!

You don't upgrade a cpu like mine every 3 years. You start out wit the stock 2.67 GHz (I'm not sure I get anything at all out of Oc'ing it yet tbh), go to 3.2-3.6 GHz a few years later (fx now) and end up with 4 GHz up to the point where the whole damn thing is obsolete and you start the next cycle.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"] well lets not, but to be fair console owners are already including the entire cost of the pc when people pretty much all buy a pc every few years anyway.

TerrorRizzing

who buys a PC every few years that doesnt play games? what would be the point?

ok so when talking about the need to upgrade a pc all the time to play current games its "oh a gaming PC will last you well over a few years" now when the argument is that everyone buys a new pc every few years so its really just a slight upgrade the argument is "yea you need to buy a new PC every few years or you cant run a microsoft office"

apparently crysis isnt the least bit demanding on pc hardware, its microsoft word that forcing everyone to upgrade. Honestly this is just looking silly.

Console gaming is more expensive for me. $300+300+200+3 games for each (6 $60 games and 3 $50 games) = 1310. Add pay to play online for one console, expensive DLC, 360s that die all the time, HDTV, cables to take advantage of HDTV, any MORE games you want to buy, any next generation consoles you may buy. You have well over $2000 invested which is much more than what i paid for my PC and all of the games that I have bought since.

[QUOTE="jun_aka_pekto"]

I have. My uncle has an old Athlon XP 2100+ with a GF4-Ti4200 (almost like mine except no ViVo), XP Pro, and 256mb RAM. We installed Office 2007 on it which chugged pretty bad until we bumped up the RAM to 1gb. He didn't like the style of Office 2007 and so, reverted back to Office 2003.

lundy86_4

It's understandable that newer software is written for more updated rigs... Otherwise we'd all still be using comps with that much RAM, etc.

I actually like the look of the new Office (2007+), which surprised me, took me a little bit to get used to though.

I like Office 2007 as well. It has more in common with MS Office for Mac 2008 (installed on my Mac Mini) than Office 2003 and prior.

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

who buys a PC every few years that doesnt play games? what would be the point?

markinthedark

ok so when talking about the need to upgrade a pc all the time to play current games its "oh a gaming PC will last you well over a few years" now when the argument is that everyone buys a new pc every few years so its really just a slight upgrade the argument is "yea you need to buy a new PC every few years or you cant run a microsoft office"

apparently crysis isnt the least bit demanding on pc hardware, its microsoft word that forcing everyone to upgrade. Honestly this is just looking silly.

Crysis is'nt the least bit demanding at 720p. Make that 1080p and add AA and you'll realize that Crytek were'nt kidding when they said they had future hardware in mind. More exactly current hardware.

Edit: Which is also why it's still GFX king today, even if it has loads of bad textures (also modded).

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

who buys a PC every few years that doesnt play games? what would be the point?

markinthedark

ok so when talking about the need to upgrade a pc all the time to play current games its "oh a gaming PC will last you well over a few years" now when the argument is that everyone buys a new pc every few years so its really just a slight upgrade the argument is "yea you need to buy a new PC every few years or you cant run a microsoft office"

apparently crysis isnt the least bit demanding on pc hardware, its microsoft word that forcing everyone to upgrade. Honestly this is just looking silly.

I would have never updated my X2 3800+ from 2005 to the i5 760 I have today solely for the purpose of productivity work (word processing, Office, internet). While I have no doubt my current rig is faster, there isn't a single piece of productivity software that didn't run just fine on my old rig - which I donated over to my folks after wiping it clean. They actually think it's quite fast.

With computers of today's power, the impetus to upgrade for the purpose of basic office tasks will only decrease in the future.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

i 100% agree with everything you said.

but hermits cant have their cake and eat it too. If you wanna argue superior graphics, and all the other great aspects that comes with being a PC gamer... then you need to yield the point to console gamers thats its much cheaper to game on consoles.

Stop trying to tell me it isnt expensive to be a PC gamer because you can build a rig today that can outperform consoles for $500... thats not the true cost of being a PC gamer. To PC game over the past decade, it has cost a fortune simply to be able to play new releases... im not even talking maxing games out. Just to be able to run new releases.

lundy86_4

The only problem is, the majority of Hermits on this site don't argue that it's cheaper than console gaming (though some no doubt do), just that it's not as expensive as people believe. Budget rigs (whilst not great) are beneficial to light-PC gamers, or people getting into PC gaming, and these can be made for $5-600 now. Granted, we're at a point where price/performance has really hit the nail on the head.

With the multiplat-centric generation we've had, PC games for the most part, have been much less-demanding. People still game happily, and pretty damn well, on a 8800GT. A few years before, that wouldn't have been possible.

Now, is it possible for PC gamers to offset the price through cheaper games, and exceptionally good sales? Absolutely (should they buy enough). However, that rests solely on the end-user, and the experiences will differ from person to person.

While I realize there are some good deals to be had on PC games, and that PC games cost roughly $10 less than their console counterparts, the abilityto sell console games used does mitigate some of the cost of console gaming on the software side.

It only looks silly because you're living in some bizarre place where everything doesn't change. Perhaps you're in Cuba. I'm not even in the IT industry and my rig can run all the current games just fine. My brother's laptop is more powerful, but then again, he's VP of an IT company, so he needs the power for compiling multiple codes. My cousin is an artist and web designer. His rig's more powerful, too. Heck, my lawyer friends ALL have laptops that are ridiculously powerful, and their power far outstrips anything that might be required for gaming.roxlimn

Well then you wouldnt know that in the industry you usually dont upgrade things like operating systems or microsoft office for several years after release because its a very complicated process rolling out the software to the entire company, and you have a business to run so you cant risk using new software that hasnt had multiple years on the market to prove its stability. And in a professional company all the code you compile and run is done on a mainframe... your PC only exists to interact with that mainframe, it needs very minimal specs to do so.

Most companies are probably running several years behind the PC market on software upgrades for work machines.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"] almost everyone does, I dont know anyone who wants to rock a slow 10 year old computer.TerrorRizzing

ok so when talking about the need to upgrade a pc all the time to play current games its "oh a gaming PC will last you well over a few years" now when the argument is that everyone buys a new pc every few years so its really just a slight upgrade the argument is "yea you need to buy a new PC every few years or you cant run a microsoft office"

apparently crysis isnt the least bit demanding on pc hardware, its microsoft word that forcing everyone to upgrade. Honestly this is just looking silly.

lots of people bought PS3s as blu ray players....

[QUOTE="roxlimn"]It only looks silly because you're living in some bizarre place where everything doesn't change. Perhaps you're in Cuba. I'm not even in the IT industry and my rig can run all the current games just fine. My brother's laptop is more powerful, but then again, he's VP of an IT company, so he needs the power for compiling multiple codes. My cousin is an artist and web designer. His rig's more powerful, too. Heck, my lawyer friends ALL have laptops that are ridiculously powerful, and their power far outstrips anything that might be required for gaming.markinthedark

Well then you wouldnt know that in the industry you usually dont upgrade things like operating systems or microsoft office for several years after release because its a very complicated process rolling out the software to the entire company, and you have a business to run so you cant risk using new software that hasnt had multiple years on the market to prove its stability. And in a professional company all the code you compile and run is done on a mainframe... your PC only exists to interact with that mainframe, it needs very minimal specs to do so.

Most companies are probably running several years behind the PC market on software upgrades for work machines.

do you live in a cave? Most people buy new computers every 5 or so years regardless of what they do. They argument is that the cost of pc gaming isnt the entire cost of the pc. Would you buy a console if you didnt play games? I barely know anybody you still uses the same pc for much more than 5 years (unless the spent like $3000), thats just a culture fact.

TerrorRizzing

I understand the point you are trying to make about the value of owning a PC; however, the OP was about gaming on a PC or console. For the sake of this discussion, it does not matter that you can also type letters in Word, or make a budget in Excel. The only part that matters is the price that you had to pay to be able to play games on your system.

Likewise, it doesn't matter that I can rip CDs to the HDD of the 360/PS3, or that I can view photos from a digital camera, or that I can listen to music from a USB drive. To play games, I still had to pay for the whole system.

Pretty pointless thread, comparing 2 generations 1 console each vs PCs. Xbox Arcade? lmao so redundant just like an old PC. but exclude those periperals and monthly online costs just to suit your arguement :roll: and the games being nearly double the price... or hell, actually cost. PS2? lol? 12 years of gaming? I can get a scrapped PS2 for nothing, take its Bios and legally play all PS2 games on my PC, along with DS and most of Wii.... so why the hell would I get them over a PC that INITIALLY costs more?Birdy09

You could also say, "why bother with a gaming PC? I'll just play the PC exclusives I missed whenever my PC breaks down and I buy my next $400-budget one". Because it's relatively easy to buy a computer that can play older games, and much harder to buy a computer that can play future ones for the next 6 years.

To play Mass Effect 2 on 360 costs 200 + copy of the game for 20 or so. To play it on PC... costs more. I think everyone knows this, it's only the silly fanboy folk who try say it's "cheaper". The reasonable people focusmore on "better value"....locopatho

My £700 Touchscreen built in computer can run it. And trust me, them pc's suck

Average cost of PC game vs console is $10 less. 1 game a month = $120 over 5 years = $600 XBL/year = $50 over 5 years = $250 Hmmmm $850 over 5 years before I've bought wi-fi or chargers/batteries (how much does 5 years worth of batteries cost?) or even a bloomin HD TV to play it on (because only super gaming PC rigs count right, but not including the price of an HDTV for a console works somehow) or HD cables etc etc. I'm not saying that PC gaming is cheaper, but its also ridiculous to argue it costs $1000's more that some consolites on here seem to imagine.

EDIT oops I forgot xbl is now $60 a year from nov so add on another $50

markinthdark: Okay, now I know why you got laid off. Get with the times, man. Companies don't work like that anymore.roxlimn

yea they do, my sister is an IT manager at IBM... its the same thing...

why are you telling me how an IT department works when you have never worked in one?

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

ok so when talking about the need to upgrade a pc all the time to play current games its "oh a gaming PC will last you well over a few years" now when the argument is that everyone buys a new pc every few years so its really just a slight upgrade the argument is "yea you need to buy a new PC every few years or you cant run a microsoft office"

apparently crysis isnt the least bit demanding on pc hardware, its microsoft word that forcing everyone to upgrade. Honestly this is just looking silly.

markinthedark

lots of people bought PS3s as blu ray players....

[QUOTE="TerrorRizzing"] do you live in a cave? Most people buy new computers every 5 or so years regardless of what they do. They argument is that the cost of pc gaming isnt the entire cost of the pc. Would you buy a console if you didnt play games? I barely know anybody you still uses the same pc for much more than 5 years (unless the spent like $3000), thats just a culture fact.

lots of people bought PS3s as blu ray players....

Average cost of PC game vs console is $10 less. 1 game a month = $120 over 5 years = $600 XBL/year = $50 over 5 years = $250 Hmmmm $850 over 5 years before I've bought wi-fi or chargers/batteries (how much does 5 years worth of batteries cost?) or even a bloomin HD TV to play it on (because only super gaming PC rigs count right, but not including the price of an HDTV for a console works somehow) or HD cables etc etc. I'm not saying that PC gaming is cheaper, but its also ridiculous to argue it costs $1000's more that some consolites on here seem to imagine.

EDIT oops I forgot xbl is now $60 a year from nov so add on another $50

blue_hazy_basic

i dont buy 1 game a month between all 3 of my consoles and my pc combined.

[QUOTE="roxlimn"]markinthdark: Okay, now I know why you got laid off. Get with the times, man. Companies don't work like that anymore.markinthedark

yea they do, my sister is an IT manager at IBM... its the same thing...

why are you telling me how an IT department works when you have never worked in one?