LMAO people weren't joking Uncharted 4 IS a climbing simulator...

thats not even remotely fucking true.

o_O
Care to elaborate?

What is there to explore in UC4? There is no point in exploring. They give you a few big open areas with nothing really in them except meaningless collectibles they add to pad out the game and the next cutscene which isn't hard to find. The exploration in UC4 is an illusion. It adds nothing to the game

@djura: Exploration is not linear. I am not sure why you consider following a predetermined path exploration. You are redefining the meaning of words. Based on your loose version of "exploration" every game in which you progress is exploration centric. That is a nonsensical redefining of a game favoring exploration.

This is all in the context of exploration in games.

@mems_1224: It depends what you mean by exploration - I'm talking about physical traversal of environments (i.e. "exploring environments"). I don't equate exploration with open-world or non-linear necessarily (for example, Half-Life 2 was highly linear yet I'd still say that the player "explores" the world of City 17 and that this is a big focus of the gameplay).

What I'm saying is that the game balances those non-combat moments of exploration (climbing, swinging, finding the path forward, solving puzzles, etc etc) with the gunplay/battles.

I'm not sure how I feel about the overall mix, but I think they got it about right. I enjoyed the gunplay most in UC4, but still, I'm glad the entire game isn't simply about combat.

@Pedro: I'm just using the word for what it means: "the action of exploring an unfamiliar area" or "thorough examination of a subject". Both definitions absolutely apply here.

As for linearity, see my HL2 example above for my take on that.

moving along the very obvious rails the developer set up is not exploring. Thats the exact opposite. It doesn't balance non-combat moments and gunplay. In fact its an incredibly poorly paced game.

@djura: That is not true because you have entire chapters in which you simply climb around and that's adding to the fact that you already spent most of your time doing that in the regular chapters. That is not balance but an imbalance.

@djura:

Oh! You mean the game character contextually explores.

The player themselves don't explore though.

At least, not in Uncharted 2. You go down a single path.

I'm not talking about linearity. You can go down a single path and still explore that path.

The implication here, at times, is that traversing the environment is some unthinking action involving pressing a single button when that isn't the case at all. There are many sequences where you must actually explore the environment to figure out how to move from point A to point B successfully.

You can, of course, argue that those two points are fixed (and thus, linear), but that's not really what I'm talking about. I think linearity is a separate question entirely. There's no question at all that the entire Uncharted series is intended to be a guided experience that moves the player through one set piece after another. I'm talking about what you actually do in the context of each set piece.

Hopefully that makes things clearer. :-)

@Pedro: Yeah, there are entire chapters where you're climbing around, punctuated by gunfights and narrative. How long is a piece of string? What is the perfect ratio? Is there a perfect ratio? Probably not.

@jumpaction: Exactly. The lack of xploration is not necessarily bad but good implementation of exploration makes the user experience better due to the world feeling more alive and purposeful.

Thats pretty much exactly what you do. There is 0 challenge or thinking required in what you call "exploration" because the developer clearly lays out a path for you. from the start of the game to the end when you enter a new area you go to where path is clearly leading you and look for your handholds, something to grapple, something to slide on or a crate to jump on. the game holds your hand the entire way through.

@djura:

Yes, I remember there were parts where you need to find the first foot-hole or ledge to begin climbing but I think the exploration here isn't that strong in that there's not much else to find or see. It's all about finding where the path starts. I guess it's rewarding from a visual standpoint but it doesn't have the same feeling as something that is built around exploring. I remember it also being pretty explicit with ledges having sharp reds or blues that contrast other colors of the environments or being visually distinct in some way.

I think the exploration people generally find engaging is in games such as, say Deux Ex or Zelda. It doesn't necessarily have to be open world but the way you explore dungeons in Zelda, for instance is a little more meaningful because the exploration is part of a unified puzzle but also has branching paths leading to helpful items so the player doesn't feel like they are walking around for nothing.

As I said, there's really no question that the game forges a linear path. The entire franchise has largely been about moving the player from one set piece to another. What's interesting to me is that this felt highly repetitive in Uncharted 2, but it feels completely different in Uncharted 4. I think there are a few reasons for that - perhaps the main reason is the variety of the environments (where I felt that the second game was really an endless jungle).

That said, this isn't some kind of on-rails experience from a moment to moment gameplay perspective. Such a suggestion is an exaggeration, clearly - I mean, I've played the entire game all the way through, I absolutely know what it contained and how it felt. At the same time, the latest game definitely isn't about detailed environmental puzzles or anything like that - it's almost more akin to a platformer, in the sense that it's about the physical feeling of traversing the environment, the timing, and the way the narrative dovetails with the action.

I can see why people wouldn't like the franchise, especially if that formula isn't your thing. I'm not interested in convincing anyone to like what they don't. That would be rather silly.

@jumpaction: On your second point there about exploration - I personally agree with that. If I'm looking for a game with deeper exploration, then something like Deus Ex or Zelda would be my go-to ahead of something like Uncharted.

But you know, that kind of feels like a red-herring as well. I mean, while we're at it, we might as well talk about how the driving experience in Forza is more engaging than driving the Jeep in Uncharted 4. You know? :-)

I think if people are looking for Zelda, they should play Zelda. Going after Uncharted for being Uncharted just strikes me as a little odd.

It's one thing to say you don't like something (fine), but to suggest that something is objectively awful because you don't like it is more than a little silly. That's basically what I was calling out in my response to the OP originally.

@djura: except there is no challenge to the platforming so it's nothing like a platformer

@djura:

I know but that's just how I feel about it, you know? The platforming isn't as engaging as a game with consequential platforming and the exploration isn't as engaging as a game designed around exploring. It's not that lighter strokes of these elements can't be fun, I just wasn't into the way Uncharted delivers them.

Metroid Prime is an example of a game that does a number of things in an engaging manner. The platforming isn't the deepest but it's still engaging and consequential. The exploring and puzzle solving is strong, stronger than the gunplay which is more about movement than aiming. In fact it auto aims but I think it handles itself well because these elements are still engaging interactive experiences for me.

I think maybe if Uncharted 2 pushed itself as a composite game rather than exploring their elements individually, it would be more fun.

Haha. See, this could go around in circles forever. What do you mean by "challenge"?
Also, what's challenging to you may not be to others (or vice versa).
Or, perhaps the experience of moving through an environment is itself pleasurable - challenge be damned.

There are so many ways to enjoy games. The beauty of it, I think, is that we all respond to different things. :-)

@jumpaction: Yeah, that's totally cool. I think the way you are describing it is intellectually honest.

What I mean is, you're not berating Uncharted for being Uncharted - you're just talking about the things you enjoy in games, and how Uncharted doesn't necessarily scratch the itch. That's totally fine.

What I object to is when someone expresses dislike for something, but then feels compelled to say that the thing in question is objectively horrible and that people who disagree are wrong. That just makes no sense.

Totally agree with you about Metroid Prime. It's one of my all-time favourites. :-)

@djura:

Hey, different strokes for different folks. That's what it's all about.

Uncharted has always been known for style over substance. A decent single playthrough/rent.

Good lord. You are trying too hard man. Things are not that complicated but you are trying ultra hard to create this false depth to justify your stance when the concept proposed is very straight forward.

While I would agree the framework is a bit much and cliche, it's not exactly like the series has ever been above it. But no, I would say given the story n plot actually revolve around the characters, and a certain thematic point. It's actually fairly solid. The larger issue on that front, is that they did the obsessive story already, in Uncharted 3. It was just way the **** worse and tonally inconsistent. And while I don't like the pace of the game, I would say the pace of the story is actually pretty legit.

With 8 million copies out there I'm just going wait for it to hit the bargain bin for $5. I enjoyed the first 2 games but 3 just felt boring. I can't justify paying full price for a game I might toss aside after playing it for 10 minutes.

Uncharted 4 really hurt the Xbox community lol I guess it embodies everything they CANT have. Success + sales

What are you talking about? Halo 5 sold ~5 million in its first three months.

Lol who cares about Halo 5 really? Its a flop.

I remember when Halo 3 released, some people kept trying to find problems w the game cuz they're jealous of its success and critical acclaim... I'm like, just stop. Its jealousy and thats EXACTLY what's going on here lol

Your two points here completely contradict each other...

Halo is completely passed its time. But when Halo was on top, it had "haters" and ironically you lems are doing the same thing to Uncharted lol. I'm calling it as I see it dude

Heck, cows did the same to Gears of War czu all they had was Resistance: Fall of man at the time. Now lems are doing it lol circle of trolls

This whole thread is just pure jealousy and salt.

@Pedro said:

Oh my i see the tears are still flowing. This thread is bringing the Sony loyalist to tears. Try not to flood the forum with dem tears.

This is what SW has become. A lot of finger pointing and little actual discourse.

Halo is still on top, why are you trying to imply otherwise? That's your problem, you idiots make everything a one way street, when Halo 5's 5 million figure made its way out the same thing was happening with cows, they were in denial and jealous and whatever else you're talking about.

You're not calling anything as you see it, you're bullshitting, ignoring what happened with Halo 5 to downplay it and acting as if Uncharted 4 and what's happening with people around its sales metric's is an enigma...

Stupid ass people man, I swear to god.

P.S. This isn't a sales thread, take that bullshit to the other thread, we're talking about mechanics and game play in here, stop infecting everything with this nonsense...

On top of what, a steaming pile of turd ?

I struck a nerve..I'm gonna let your jealousy consume you now. Hating on Uncharted wont make Microsoft buy better studios lol Good day sir!

Dude no, go to the other thread, move along.

The game released as a lemming curb stomping simulator and the popular support for the game after the fact is the actual stomp.

Damn right lol. Havent seen this much jealousy in a loooong while

@Pedro: "simply climb around"

You see.. thats where the buck stops.

How about saying hey look the environment is cool while climbing. You dismiss imagination to make the game sound bland.

Thats a technique that can be used on any game. Your poor excuse of a opinion is more linear than uncharted. Unlike you and the very rare few others , uncharted can shock and awe you the whole way through.

Do you know why ?

B/c its not the half assed produced game that technically might have a few more kicks and punches but overall shit in comparison.

This is the birds eye veiw of things btw. You dont want me to get biased and really shit on the so many games you think are better.

Learn to make your opinions actually sound like opinions.

Monkey simulator albeit with guns, a bit of story and collectibles

That has got to be to the most moronic thing I have read this year. Good job. Its a short year but still. Also, don't ever make it that obvious that I got under your skin. Its sad.

LOL I found over 60 treasures in my first play through. I got the same ending as EVERYONE else on planet Earth. When you love Sony jizz, well...................

What is so telling, of most here, is: I went back and forth recently with tormentoes and he still gets riled up about TLOU not being AAA or winning GOTY.

But lately, there are hermits, and lems, and sheep shitting on U4's 10/10. What good did it do it? It LOST GOTY HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA because ONE fuking person gave it a 10/10 on GS. The entire staff, did not. When it came to a total staff vote, U4 did not equal Overwatch. Put your left hand in your crotch, pull it back up and lick it baby!

Get over it, cry, be a beeotch, whatever helps you. LOL

What is the same ending? What does that really mean?

@Pedro said:

@cainetao11 said:

@mems_1224 said:

@djura said:

What I think Uncharted 4 does well is that it balances exploration and action. The exploration is absolutely crucial to the experience.

thats not even remotely fucking true.

LOL I found over 60 treasures in my first play through. I got the same ending as EVERYONE else on planet Earth. When you love Sony jizz, well...................

What is the same ending? What does that really mean?

I'd hit that............................................................................................................................................just sayin'

False depth? Hah. Mate, I'm literally describing what happens in the game moment to moment. What part of my description is inaccurate?

When someone says that the "ratio" of climbing to other stuff is flawed, I want to know what you think the perfect ratio is. Is it 50/50? 60/80? What?

I'm not interested in getting into "I like X and if you don't you're wrong" (or vice versa) - that's a waste of time. I'm actually asking a question because I'm curious to know.

In any case, there's still been no response to my point, so I'll re-state it: I suspect that there is no single perfect ratio, and it'll differ completely between individual players.

@Douevenlift_bro: For all this shit Cows get on this forum about living to hate the XBox, I sure haven't seen a thread like this dragging Quantum Break for several months...

Nobody cares about Quantum Break.

That's not true, there's just no argument like this that can be made because its actually got good game play with proper pacing.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Get rekt with all that.

LOL...ah no.

So one persons opinion? Yeah get rekt...

Controller turns itself off while you play this "properly paced" game. Get re-rekt.

That's kinda like when the PS controller battery life kills the gaming experience while playing UC4 ;) I have decided to just use my Xbox One Elite braided charging cable with my DS4 plugged into the PS Pro all the time now so I don't have to worry about low battery :)