Mass Effect 2 is the future for RPG's !!

I have to say, I really liked Mass Effect, had read all of the books and was hyped for ME2, it's decent but I didn't even finish it because it just got boring.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]You didn't really respond to my post. Can you name how you changed your stats, and how did it affect the way you fight? IronBass

And how did you increase your health again? Besides those useless and indifferent armor upgrades there was really nothing else. It makes no difference if you have the 5% plus health or not. You still go down in the same amount of shots.GeneralShowzer

You can find/buy/research multiple shield and HP upgrades along the way, and the armor increments, while combined, can be quite useful.

This is getting really tiresome. You want to pretend that ME2 is highly customizable RPG experience, fine. I'm telling you play Alpha Protocol for a real TPS/RPG hybrid.GeneralShowzer

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] And how did you increase your health again? Besides those useless and indifferent armor upgrades there was really nothing else. It makes no difference if you have the 5% plus health or not. You still go down in the same amount of shots.IronBass

You can find/buy/research multiple shield and HP upgrades along the way, and the armor increments, while combined, can be quite useful.

The upgrades are pretty linear.

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] And how did you increase your health again? Besides those useless and indifferent armor upgrades there was really nothing else. It makes no difference if you have the 5% plus health or not. You still go down in the same amount of shots.IronBass

The upgrades are pretty linear.

rpgs_shall_rule

Yea, i remember. However that didn't really affect the game i played. Not like there was a stealth class or a meele class. I just lasted a couple of shots more.GeneralShowzer

Indeed, the combat is based on a cover shooter, there not being stealth or melee classes makes sense.

[QUOTE="glez13"]

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"]Dialogue options and decisions are not traits exclusive to the RPG genre. Many Adventure games and Action Adventure games have them. To say that ME2 is an RPG simply because you get to pick your words is wrong.IronBass

Yeah, I have noticed this too. People always give some characteristics that are from Adventure and thus by rebound of Action Adventure to RPG.

Yes they where. D&D is from 1974, but in videogames there were already games (that after 1975's Colossal Cave Adventure would now fall under the Adventure games category) that did this even in the late 60's. I'm even also sure that the first considered RPG videogame was developed in the 60's too but was never published anyways, and there was even other one in the early 70's before D&D but it was not published or published later.

The only thing that separated this games that we would call adventures nowadays from what we call RPG's was that they didn't rely in some kind of stats system but other wise they had dialogue options thus desicion making and diverging routes, they also had item inventories.

[QUOTE="rpgs_shall_rule"]

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

The upgrades are pretty linear.

IronBass

Yea, i remember. However that didn't really affect the game i played. Not like there was a stealth class or a meele class. I just lasted a couple of shots more.GeneralShowzer

So wait, are you trying to prove that ME2 is a RPG or not? Because it definitely isn't.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

The upgrades are pretty linear.

Yea, i remember. However that didn't really affect the game i played. Not like there was a stealth class or a meele class. I just lasted a couple of shots more.GeneralShowzer

I have to say, I really liked Mass Effect, had read all of the books and was hyped for ME2, it's decent but I didn't even finish it because it just got boring.

bachilders

oh hell no, it's not gonna happend, stop trying to scare me

[QUOTE="bachilders"]

I have to say, I really liked Mass Effect, had read all of the books and was hyped for ME2, it's decent but I didn't even finish it because it just got boring.

Karnage108

Yes they where. D&D is from 1974, but in videogames there were already games (that after 1975's Colossal Cave Adventure would now fall under the Adventure games category) that did this even in the late 60's. I'm even also sure that the first considered RPG videogame was developed in the 60's too but was never published anyways, and there was even other one in the early 70's before D&D but it was not published or published later.

The only thing that separated this games that we would call adventures nowadays from what we call RPG's was that they didn't rely in some kind of stats system but other wise they had dialogue options thus desicion making and diverging routes, they also had item inventories.

glez13

You proved my point. D&D did it first, making it a RPG element.

Alpha Protocol had cover based shooting. Yet it had meele and stealth. And charmer stats, so you can talk your way out of situations.GeneralShowzer

[QUOTE="Karnage108"][QUOTE="bachilders"]

I have to say, I really liked Mass Effect, had read all of the books and was hyped for ME2, it's decent but I didn't even finish it because it just got boring.

GeneralShowzer

[QUOTE="glez13"]Yes they where. D&D is from 1974, but in videogames there were already games (that after 1975's Colossal Cave Adventure would now fall under the Adventure games category) that did this even in the late 60's. I'm even also sure that the first considered RPG videogame was developed in the 60's too but was never published anyways, and there was even other one in the early 70's before D&D but it was not published or published later.

The only thing that separated this games that we would call adventures nowadays from what we call RPG's was that they didn't rely in some kind of stats system but other wise they had dialogue options thus desicion making and diverging routes, they also had item inventories.

IronBass

You proved my point. D&D did it first, making it a RPG element.

How could something in the mid 70's do something first when it was already done in the late 60's early 70's?

Did you even read what I wrote?

[QUOTE="GeneralShowzer"] Alpha Protocol had cover based shooting. Yet it had meele and stealth. And charmer stats, so you can talk your way out of situations.IronBass

I said it was unpolished, and a little clunky. But it's an RPG, which Mass Effect 2 failed to be. No, it didn't even try to be.GeneralShowzer

How could something in the mid 70's do something first when it was already done in the late 60's early 70's?

Did you even read what I wrote?

glez13

Than WRPG"s are dead

[QUOTE="glez13"]How could something in the mid 70's do something first when it was already done in the late 60's early 70's?

Did you even read what I wrote?

IronBass

Those unpublished ones are the RPG's (I just mentioned it as a interesting fact) the videogames that would fall under the Adventure category existed (in the late 60's and early 70's) and where popular mostly on mainframes but some where redone in PC's just like pnp D&D was redone later in games like Dungeon and DnD on PC's. I specified most of this in my post you are just reading what you want to read.

Also obviously I'm talking about "videogames". Or else in the end everything will end up predated by LARPG.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]

[QUOTE="glez13"]How could something in the mid 70's do something first when it was already done in the late 60's early 70's?

Did you even read what I wrote?

Those unpublished ones are the RPG's (I just mentioned it as a interesting fact) the videogames that would fall under the Adventure category existed (in the late 60's and early 70's) and where popular mostly on mainframes but some where redone in PC's just like pnp D&D was redone later in games like Dungeon and DnD on PC's. I specified most of this in my post you are just reading what you want to read.

Also obviously I'm talking about "videogames". It's obvious that videogameRPG get predated by PnPRPG just as this get predated by LARPG.

glez13

[QUOTE="glez13"]

[QUOTE="IronBass"] You said that some unpublished games did it before. For all practical purposes, they don't exist. I wouldn't be surprised if unpublished board games with decision making were created decades before DD.

IronBass

Those unpublished ones are the RPG's (I just mentioned it as a interesting fact) the videogames that would fall under the Adventure category existed (in the late 60's and early 70's) and where popular mostly on mainframes but some where redone in PC's just like pnp D&D was redone later in games like Dungeon and DnD on PC's. I specified most of this in my post you are just reading what you want to read.

Of course it was the first Adventure game since it was the game from which the genre got the name, but there where already other games that were like it. Obviously Colossal Cave Adventure mastered the mechanics so much that it had many clones that would then be considered a gaming genre. But that doesn't mean it's actually the first one.

Like I said these games were that came before "Adventure" were adventure games, just like there were two pnp RPG's before the pnp game that gave identity/popularized the term, and you needed a video display to play them so they were video games(there goes your backdoor). Also in videogames I believe the first D&D adaptation could have appeared in 1975, so even the proper Adventure games could predate them. I don't know the exact dates so can say exactly.

Like I said before LARPG predates all but you don't need a video display to play them so...

Like I said before LARPG predates all but you don't need a video display to play them so...glez13

[QUOTE="glez13"] Also obviously I'm talking about "videogames". It's obvious that videogameRPG get predated by PnPRPG just as this get predated by LARPG.

IronBass

No because those videogames I'm talking about predate the RPG videogames and the pnp RPG. LAPRG have nothing in common in the way to achieve the roleplaying with the pnpRPG. One basically depends on the mind and imagination the other relies in a stats system. Actually LARPG got that abrevation(I believe LARP is also common and is an even older term, but not sure) after the pnpRPG which it predates. Like you said the term RPG was basically invented by D&D. They have nothing in common after that. LARPG are really random and I doubt any nowadays mechanic that is considered RPG could be traced to them. If RPG is vague LARPG is even more.

No because those videogames I'm talking about predate the RPG videogames and the pnp RPG. LAPRG have nothing in common in the way to achieve the roleplaying with the pnpRPG. One basically depends on the mind and imagination the other relies in a stats system. Actually LARPG got that abrevation(I believe LARP is also common and is an even older term, but not sure) after the pnpRPG which it predates. Like you said the term RPG was basically invented by D&D. They have nothing in common after that. LARPG are really random and I doubt any nowadays mechanic that is considered RPG could be traced to them. If RPG is vague LARPG is even more.

glez13

Decision making goes back to DD, which is what predates nowadays RPG, making decision making a RPG characteristic. Those games you're talking about weren't published and for all intents and purposes don't exist.

Decision making goes back to DD, which is what predates nowadays RPG, making decision making a RPG characteristic. Those games you're talking about weren't published and for all intents and purposes don't exist.IronBass

Wait, what? This again? Are you running in circles or what? I already answered that. The only thing left would be proving that predating LARPG have something in common with pnp RPG which like you said influenced the videogame ones, so that way it could be considered a RPG mechanic.:|

I'm starting to think you don't know much about this but don't want to accept it, and that's why you return to the same we already discussed.

I hope not, ME1 was a much better game! I'd rather RPGs stick to time battle system.

[QUOTE="IronBass"] Decision making goes back to DD, which is what predates nowadays RPG, making decision making a RPG characteristic. Those games you're talking about weren't published and for all intents and purposes don't exist.glez13

Wait, what? This again? Are you running in circles or what? I already answered that. The only thing left would be proving that predating LARPG have something in common with pnp RPG which like you said influenced the videogame ones, so that way it could be considered a RPG mechanic.:|

I'm starting to think you don't know much about this but don't want to accept it, and that's why you return to the same we already discussed.

Wait, what? This again? Are you running in circles or what? I already answered that. The only thing left would be proving that predating LARPG have something in common with pnp RPG which like you said influenced the videogame ones, so that way it could be considered a RPG mechanic.:|

I'm starting to think you don't know much about this but don't want to accept it, and that's why you return to the same we already discussed.

glez13

Also, according to Wikipedia, pnp RPGS predate LARPGS, not the other waya around. And it was not a backdoor, but in the praxis text adventures are not much more videogames than choose-your-own-adventure books.

The game doesnt even have loot...I mean, come on, where is the loot!?

[QUOTE="glez13"]

[QUOTE="IronBass"] Decision making goes back to DD, which is what predates nowadays RPG, making decision making a RPG characteristic. Those games you're talking about weren't published and for all intents and purposes don't exist.IronBass

Wait, what? This again? Are you running in circles or what? I already answered that. The only thing left would be proving that predating LARPG have something in common with pnp RPG which like you said influenced the videogame ones, so that way it could be considered a RPG mechanic.:|

I'm starting to think you don't know much about this but don't want to accept it, and that's why you return to the same we already discussed.

You're returning to the they "don't exist" excuse. The other time you tried the they are not videogames excuse, I refuted it. The thing is these games existed and they fall into the Adventure genre. Also videogames started being published in 1970 or 1971 with some spaceship shmup, something like Space Game, Computer space game or something like that(not sure about the date and title) before that everything was independent or free and exchanged person by person or in mainframes via LAN/WAN equivalents. So your definition of something existing or not is ridiculous considering the standards of those days.

You're returning to the they "don't exist" excuse. The other time you tried the they are not videogames excuse, I refuted it. The thing is these games existed and they fall into the Adventure genre. Also videogames started being published in 1970 or 1971 with some spaceship shmup, something like Space Game, Computer space game or something like that(not sure about the date and title) before that everything was independent or free and exchanged person by person or in mainframes via LAN/WAN equivalents. So your definition of something existing or not is ridiculous considering the standards of those days.glez13

Unpublished stuff is that, unpublished stuff. We don't even have their names or anything more than "some games" to talk about, which makes this conversation rather difficult.

And there again, text adventures are hardly more videogames than choose-your-own adventure books. It's like reading a book online or on an iPad.

Decisions are a pnp RPG feature, which predateded LARPGs (not the other way around according to Wikipedia), and videogame RPGs.

I hope not, ME1 was a much better game! I'd rather RPGs stick to time battle system.

Chutebox

No awkward menus, no constant math, good shooter gameplay where headshots actually kill, simplistic leveling. Making RPG's user friendly is a step forward in a genre that is stuck in the past.Caesar-124

No awkward menus, no constant math, good shooter gameplay where headshots actually kill, simplistic leveling. Making RPG's user friendly is a step forward in a genre that is stuck in the past.Caesar-124

RPGs can be user friendly without sacrificing their depth. Fallout: New Vegas is very accessible yet it blows ME2 out of the ****ing water as an RPG. ME2 was a fun game, but it was very shallow. The leveling system wasn't just "simple", it was absolutely pathetic; almost non-existent, really.

Also, constant math? Are you serious?

I sure hope ME2 isn't the future of rpg's. The first ME is a rpg. ME2 is more of a third person shooter with rpg elements. You complete a mission and get a set amount of experience instead of getting exp for kills or actions. There's limited upgrading compared to the first (armor, weapons, skills).

So basically you want RPGs to be shooters and action games with shallow tacked on stats and generic black and white choices?

If thats the future,I'll stick with Indie RPGs and Oldies.

I wouldn't mind it if there was a bit more character customization and stat allocating.

And as long as every future RPG didn't have shooter-centric combat. I love my swashbuckling RPGs. :P

I'm playing through Alpha Protocol right now, and it seems like it's way better at some things when compared to mass effect. I've reloaded a few times, and a few dialogue options can change so many things. You decide how to fight, so it has more replayability I'm guessing. Mass effect 2 is pretty much a shooter compared to Alpha Protocol, you hardly decide anything.

That's the way rpgs should be going I think, more choice given to the player.