Microsoft should give PC gamers some more respect!

If I wasn't a PC gamer, I wouldn't even be using Windows. That is fact. I dual-boot between Windows and Linux daily, and if it weren't for all those Linux-incompatible games that I need to play in Windows, I wouldn't even be buying a license of Microsoft Windows everytime a new version comes out.

Why is Microsoft so intent on crushing PC gaming into dust? The only reason their OS is still alive on the consumer side is partially because PC gamers depend on it.

The Xbox division of Microsoft barely squeaks a profit. Meanwhile, it's Windows and Office that generates most of Microsoft's profits. Why is Microsoft so intent on pouring money and energy into a platform which has proven to be money-loser, time and time again?

There's nothing wrong with Microsoft's direction on the Xbox, but I would love to see Microsoft give PC gaming a similar level of attention as well. Yes, PC games don't make as much money as console games do, but they do one thing which good for Microsoft - drive sales of Windows.

Their OS is alive on PC's because it is so widespread between home and many, many businesses. The gaming market likely makes up a very smal portion of that, though they definately are a part of it.

MS is focussing on the 360, a system they earn massive amounts of money off, from hardware sales, peripheral sales, royalties, Xbox Live transactions.

I'd love to see them come back into PC gaming heavily however, and really begin to support it.

because in most people's minds linux isnt as well supported, and more difficult.

instead they trust there data to a reputable company its that simple.

because this windows is the majority and almost a monopoly(if it werent for apple of course) they can do what ever they want with little consequence

so should sony. their pc support is horrible. don't even get me started on nintendo.

so should sony. their pc support is horrible. don't even get me started on nintendo.

CaseyWegner

alright you lost me, but nice post count *58000

you answered your rant ther bud "PC games don't make as much money as console games do" this is true simply because of piracyscum **** are hurting it as well as not everyone is able to keep up to date with. Granted Now I can build a decent PC that can play all the games this gen but thats a result of everything going multiplat say for a few exceptions like some RTS games, but those are hardly axing on a system. It seems that this gen is going to move into an online service gen, where a game can be simple not have visual fidelity but is able to generate a great experience, online content, service, etc.

you answered your rant ther bud "PC games don't make as much money as console games do" this is true simply because of piracyscum **** are hurting it as well as not everyone is able to keep up to date with. Granted Now I can build a decent PC that can play all the games this gen but thats a result of everything going multiplat say for a few exceptions like some RTS games, but those are hardly axing on a system. It seems that this gen is going to move into an online service gen, where a game can be simple not have visual fidelity but is able to generate a great experience, online content, service, etc.

Sniping_Crowbar

piracy is most interesting to me, if we look at MW2 for example we see the disrespect that PC gamers got, and the petitions that came after.

but even before the game was released this game was pirated to kingdom-come, But when you show another game(any game i guess)you see remarkably less torrents. Now my understanding is treat the PC like crap "they" will destroy you. But give the PC the respect it demands, the torrents are minimal.

now its a shame that there still pirates of games that give that respect but not enough to where a company will lose most of their profit. companies still make a lot of money developing games on the PC.

i dont know, i wouldnt call this post a rant, its just something to think about. what do you guys think?

There's nothing wrong with Microsoft's direction on the Xbox, but I would love to see Microsoft give PC gaming a similar level of attention as well. Yes, PC games don't make as much money as console games do, but they do one thing which good for Microsoft - drive sales of Windows.

The_Capitalist

Games driving sales of Windows? Not really. I have several MS PC games with the oldest dating back from 1997. They still all work with Win 7. Why would I want to buy a new version of Windows just for gaming when the older one works just fine? The only reason that might make some sense is DirectX. But look at the reception for each version of DirectX that's come out. Not one has been earth-shattering. If other developers rushed to the latest DirectX everytime a new version was released, sure. I might rush too. But as it stood, XP was fine for gaming which I used for over 8 years.

I buy the latest version of Windows based on two things with probably more emphasis on No. 2:

1. If it's improved and have features I like that's not on the previous versions

2. I'm in the market for a new PC.

MS gives enough respect with constantly improving Windows and DirectX. If they want to release a few games for the PC, fine. I don't want them becoming dominant and start muscling out other developers.

So long as MS sticks to Windows and DirectX, it and game developers can be seen as something like partners. Once MS gets too deep into PC gaming, they become competitors and that usually hasn't bode well for the little guy.

piracy is most interesting to me, if we look at MW2 for example we see the disrespect that PC gamers got, and the petitions that came after.

but even before the game was released this game was pirated to kingdom-come, But when you show another game(any game i guess)you see remarkably less torrents. Now my understanding is treat the PC like crap "they" will destroy you. But give the PC the respect it demands, the torrents are minimal.CagedOkami

Ehhhh...PC is open platform and MS can't control much what happens there, besides what MS doing with gameing not fit to such open system.

PC gameing doing fine without them (Steam?) and don't need MS help.... but im sure they gonna interest when Steam come to Linux as it is rumored and one of main Windows fillar might be in risk :)

Microsoft can take Skittles, Kinect, and their mediocrity and GTFO. :evil:

Pc gamers should start actually buying games then don't you think? there is no denying that Piracy on PC's is a rampent epidemic compared to consoles and portable systems. Its not surprising companies are getting more and more scared of PC game development and release.

Pc gamers should start actually buying games then don't you think? there is no denying that Piracy on PC's is a rampent epidemic compared to consoles and portable systems. Its not surprising companies are getting more and more scared of PC game development and release.

WilliamRLBaker

Don't generalize. A lot of PC games typically sell well -- more through DD in NA and retail in European and Asian countries.

Whilst you are correct that piracy is rampant, it's also well known that it's difficult to track actual pirated copies, especially as 1 download does not equate to 1 lost sale, a point of view that seemed to originate with regards to music piracy.

Pc gamers should start actually buying games then don't you think? there is no denying that Piracy on PC's is a rampent epidemic compared to consoles and portable systems. Its not surprising companies are getting more and more scared of PC game development and release.

WilliamRLBaker

Piracy on the consoles is not very high(but it´s rising and it will get worse) only because most console gamers don´t have a clue how to do it.

If they knew the story would be very diferent.

And the ones that figured out how to do it(like the PSP users)pirated their games to the death like Phantasy Star portable 2,with a stunning 4.600.000+ copies or Dissidia: Final Fantasy with the modest sum of 5.281.223 millions...

Also,devs are scared? Then I wonder why the PC is getting the biggest exclusive games ever(SC2 and ToR)with a budget of 100 millions to SC2 and ToR with almost as much...you know,the kind of budget that only a super high profile multiplat like GTA4 has...but these are not multiplats...

Is there a console exclusive with that budget? I thougth as much...

Don´t speak nonsense William.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

Pc gamers should start actually buying games then don't you think? there is no denying that Piracy on PC's is a rampent epidemic compared to consoles and portable systems. Its not surprising companies are getting more and more scared of PC game development and release.

Arach666

Piracy on the consoles is not very high(but it´s rising and it will get worse) only because most console gamers don´t have a clue how to do it.

If they knew the story would be very diferent.

And the ones that figured out how to do it(like the PSP users)pirated their games to the death like Phantasy Star portable 2,with a stunning 4.600.000+ copies or Dissidia: Final Fantasy with the modest sum of 5.281.223 millions...

Also,devs are scared? Then I wonder why the PC is getting the biggest exclusive games ever(SC2 and ToR)with a budget of 100 millions to SC2 and ToR with almost as much...you know,the kind of budget that only a super high profile multiplat like GTA4 has...but these are not multiplats...

Is there a console exclusive with that budget? I thougth as much...

Don´t speak nonsense William.

CD-keys locked multiplayer mah boi, CD-Keys. It's much most effective DRM currently and in such open system like PC and freedom of internet they can maintain it by themselfs. In closed console where DRMis maintained by one body once crashed it easily gets out of control.

If I wasn't a PC gamer, I wouldn't even be using Windows. That is fact. I dual-boot between Windows and Linux daily, and if it weren't for all those Linux-incompatible games that I need to play in Windows, I wouldn't even be buying a license of Microsoft Windows everytime a new version comes out.

Why is Microsoft so intent on crushing PC gaming into dust? The only reason their OS is still alive on the consumer side is partially because PC gamers depend on it.

The Xbox division of Microsoft barely squeaks a profit. Meanwhile, it's Windows and Office that generates most of Microsoft's profits. Why is Microsoft so intent on pouring money and energy into a platform which has proven to be money-loser, time and time again?

There's nothing wrong with Microsoft's direction on the Xbox, but I would love to see Microsoft give PC gaming a similar level of attention as well. Yes, PC games don't make as much money as console games do, but they do one thing which good for Microsoft - drive sales of Windows.

The_Capitalist

Microsoft does not need to drive the sales of Windows as they dominate the OS market. I would like more PC support, but consoles are where the money and the room for growth is at for them at the moment.

If I wasn't a PC gamer, I wouldn't even be using Windows. That is fact. I dual-boot between Windows and Linux daily, and if it weren't for all those Linux-incompatible games that I need to play in Windows, I wouldn't even be buying a license of Microsoft Windows everytime a new version comes out.

Why is Microsoft so intent on crushing PC gaming into dust? The only reason their OS is still alive on the consumer side is partially because PC gamers depend on it.

The Xbox division of Microsoft barely squeaks a profit. Meanwhile, it's Windows and Office that generates most of Microsoft's profits. Why is Microsoft so intent on pouring money and energy into a platform which has proven to be money-loser, time and time again?

There's nothing wrong with Microsoft's direction on the Xbox, but I would love to see Microsoft give PC gaming a similar level of attention as well. Yes, PC games don't make as much money as console games do, but they do one thing which good for Microsoft - drive sales of Windows.

The_Capitalist

Yeah.........no If Pc gaming didn't exist Windows would still be the dominant OS.

You think the world would be using Linux? Lemme answer that for you........no

95% of the market and what % are gamers? Its a tiny %.

MS doesnt have to support PC gaming because there are a billion other devs who support it just fine.

Then I wonder why the PC is getting the biggest exclusive games ever(SC2 and ToR)with a budget of 100 millions to SC2 and ToR with almost as much...you know,the kind of budget that only a super high profile multiplat like GTA4 has...but these are not multiplats...Arach666

Don't generalize. A lot of PC games typically sell well -lundy86_4

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

Don't generalize. A lot of PC games typically sell well -dc337

Do you have a link? I'm googling for the info but coming up with nothing.

In closed console where DRMis maintained by one body once crashed it easily gets out of control.

ShadowriverUB

[QUOTE="dc337"]

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

Don't generalize. A lot of PC games typically sell well -lundy86_4

Do you have a link? I'm googling for the info but coming up with nothing.

Linux still has a long way to go, as someone who's very very computer savvy (software engineer) its on the level of windows 98 and xp. Somewhere between there.

I think it still needs some growing up to do, like the time it whipe out my back up HDD for god knows what reason, and its still text based operating syswtem with a GUI wrap around for the terminal, like 98 was for DOS.

Sure
http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/the-truth-about-pc-game-piracy-688864

This is the most in-depth look at pc gaming piracy I have seen:
http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_4.html

dc337

Interesting links, though I obviously haven't read through it totally yet. With regards to the Michael Fitch quote, is his piracy rate based on total torrent downloads compared to total sales?

[QUOTE="dc337"]

Sure
http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/the-truth-about-pc-game-piracy-688864

This is the most in-depth look at pc gaming piracy I have seen:
http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_4.html

lundy86_4

Interesting links, though I obviously haven't read through it totally yet. With regards to the Michael Fitch quote, is his piracy rate based on total torrent downloads compared to total sales?

Probably, and it would be conservative estimate because there is no way of measuring other forms of piracy.

dc337

True enough, though I wonder how relevant it is when not every download equates a lost sale. Very high rate none-the-less though.

Thanks for the links, they're an interesting read.

[QUOTE="dc337"]

Probably, and it would be conservative estimate because there is no way of measuring other forms of piracy.

lundy86_4

True enough, though I wonder how relevant it is when not every download equates a lost sale. Very high rate none-the-less though.

Thanks for the links, they're an interesting read.

[QUOTE="dc337"]

Probably, and it would be conservative estimate because there is no way of measuring other forms of piracy.

lundy86_4

True enough, though I wonder how relevant it is when not every download equates a lost sale. Very high rate none-the-less though.

Thanks for the links, they're an interesting read.

I doubt those sales include digital distribution. Maybe retail copies, but DD is a much bigger seller on PC than retail.DragonfireXZ95

Yup, last estimates pegged 20% retail and 80% digital in NA. It wouldn't be surprising, especially considering how hard it is to find out solid DD numbers, unless released from the dev or pub.

I stopped pirating games when I got a Job, I also played less since I wasn't a bum sitting at home downloading games all day and not having anything better to do... or afford too. This is just an assumption, but I think in our economy, where kids are having a more difficult time finding a job, the vast majority probably couldn't afford the games even if they were planning on buying them. And if they had a job they'd only buy a few. I think the ratio of pirated games is a lot higher vs sales lost.savagetwinkie

It's definately a possibility, though it would definitely be difficult to put a solid figure on.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

Don't generalize. A lot of PC games typically sell well -dc337

That statistic is incredibly misleading. Iphone piracy rates were at something like 95%, and yet it was found that only 5% of people actually pirate apps. But because they pirate so much more then the average person buys, the statistics appear highly distorted.

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"] I doubt those sales include digital distribution. Maybe retail copies, but DD is a much bigger seller on PC than retail.lundy86_4

Yup, last estimates pegged 20% retail and 80% digital in NA. It wouldn't be surprising, especially considering how hard it is to find out solid DD numbers, unless released from the dev or pub.

I stopped pirating games when I got a Job, I also played less since I wasn't a bum sitting at home downloading games all day and not having anything better to do... or afford too. This is just an assumption, but I think in our economy, where kids are having a more difficult time finding a job, the vast majority probably couldn't afford the games even if they were planning on buying them. And if they had a job they'd only buy a few. I think the ratio of pirated games is a lot higher vs sales lost.savagetwinkie

It's definately a possibility, though it would definitely be difficult to put a solid figure on.

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="dc337"]

Probably, and it would be conservative estimate because there is no way of measuring other forms of piracy.

DragonfireXZ95

True enough, though I wonder how relevant it is when not every download equates a lost sale. Very high rate none-the-less though.

Thanks for the links, they're an interesting read.

"The only reason their OS is still alive on the consumer side is partially because PC gamers depend on it.". I hope this line is a joke. Secondly MS is not the only PC dev or publisher out there you do realize this right? MS could go ahead and promise the world to PC gamers, but the bottom line is they can't show love not that they don't want to but because they have way too much invested into the 360 to even care to think about the PC as far as games are concerned. MS is more concerned with the PC being their primary target for business and consumers for regular use, not for gamers. If that line I copiedwere factsthen MS would be in huge trouble.

I don't even have a gaming computer and i still buy steam games, when you have have that many massive discounts for chump change and fast download servers, and easily accessible to everyone, its hard to imagine people not paying $5-$10 unless they just didn't have it...savagetwinkie

I'll never understand it either. Whilst I understand -- at one point -- pirating was probably easier than paying for the game, and having to go to the store to actually buy it. With the inception of DD, and especially Steam with it's prices, and fast download speeds, it's definately difficult to think of people still going out of the way to avoid paying for stuff.

If I wasn't a PC gamer, I wouldn't even be using Windows. That is fact. I dual-boot between Windows and Linux daily, and if it weren't for all those Linux-incompatible games that I need to play in Windows, I wouldn't even be buying a license of Microsoft Windows everytime a new version comes out.

Why is Microsoft so intent on crushing PC gaming into dust? The only reason their OS is still alive on the consumer side is partially because PC gamers depend on it.

The Xbox division of Microsoft barely squeaks a profit. Meanwhile, it's Windows and Office that generates most of Microsoft's profits. Why is Microsoft so intent on pouring money and energy into a platform which has proven to be money-loser, time and time again?

There's nothing wrong with Microsoft's direction on the Xbox, but I would love to see Microsoft give PC gaming a similar level of attention as well. Yes, PC games don't make as much money as console games do, but they do one thing which good for Microsoft - drive sales of Windows.

The_Capitalist

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

[QUOTE="dc337"]

Probably, and it would be conservative estimate because there is no way of measuring other forms of piracy.

DragonfireXZ95

True enough, though I wonder how relevant it is when not every download equates a lost sale. Very high rate none-the-less though.

Thanks for the links, they're an interesting read.

Are there actual numbers for that? Link?

[QUOTE="DragonfireXZ95"][QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

True enough, though I wonder how relevant it is when not every download equates a lost sale. Very high rate none-the-less though.

Thanks for the links, they're an interesting read.

glez13

Are there actual numbers for that? Link?

Linky

I used to have a better link, but couldn't find it :P

[QUOTE="ShadowriverUB"] In closed console where DRMis maintained by one body once crashed it easily gets out of control.

dc337

I can say the same about Apple products ans PSP, somewhat this is not working

[QUOTE="lundy86_4"]

Don't generalize. A lot of PC games typically sell well -dc337

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

so should sony. their pc support is horrible. don't even get me started on nintendo.

CagedOkami

alright you lost me, but nice post count *58000

well, you want ms to give the pc more support. how much support does sony or nintendo provide?

360s make them more money

i agree i would never buy windows if linx had more games

There are some strong signs that Microsoft might once again start to invest heavily into PC gaming. I doubt it will ever come back to situation from decade ago when MS was publishing many huge pc exclusives each year, but any improvement would be nice

[QUOTE="CagedOkami"]piracy is most interesting to me, if we look at MW2 for example we see the disrespect that PC gamers got, and the petitions that came after.

but even before the game was released this game was pirated to kingdom-come, But when you show another game(any game i guess)you see remarkably less torrents. Now my understanding is treat the PC like crap "they" will destroy you. But give the PC the respect it demands, the torrents are minimal.dc337