My "BEEF" with FPS games these days...

Best AI I have ever experienced was in CoD:WaW veteran mode, the enemies always knew where you were and instantly shot at you even if you barely peeked from your cover. They were so skilled, they could curve bullets AND grenades into your location, Wanted style. Overall, it was just amazing fighting those super soldiers with magical powers.

Best AI I have ever experienced was in CoD:WaW veteran mode, the enemies always knew where you were and instantly shot at you even if you barely peeked from your cover. They were so skilled, they could curve bullets AND grenades into your location, Wanted style. Overall, it was just amazing fighting those super soldiers with magical powers.

PabloEscobar20

[QUOTE="PabloEscobar20"]

Best AI I have ever experienced was in CoD:WaW veteran mode, the enemies always knew where you were and instantly shot at you even if you barely peeked from your cover. They were so skilled, they could curve bullets AND grenades into your location, Wanted style. Overall, it was just amazing fighting those super soldiers with magical powers.

BELOW_MEE

Nah, there were no ladders. And they actually threw back the granades lol, after which you had like 2 seconds to respond.

WaW was probably the hardest FPS campaign I ever beat. You need to have nerves of steel to continue playing after so many deaths, or you just have to be insane. The last 2 levels are just impossible, if you don't move, you get 4-5 grenades at your feet. If you do move, you get focus fired by the whole army, and it only takes 3 bullets to kill you.

So you're telling me its selfish to expect a developer to produce AI that performs well in-game (100% of the userbase will enjoy this) as opposed to being selfless and producing AI that can work at a high theoretical capacity but be implemented so badly that the enemies come off as retarded so like what, less than 5% of thee userbase can tinker around, fix whats broken and producd some half baked mods?BELOW_MEE

[QUOTE="BELOW_MEE"]So you're telling me its selfish to expect a developer to produce AI that performs well in-game (100% of the userbase will enjoy this) as opposed to being selfless and producing AI that can work at a high theoretical capacity but be implemented so badly that the enemies come off as retarded so like what, less than 5% of thee userbase can tinker around, fix whats broken and producd some half baked mods?CentricStorm

Section 8 is original! shame it isn't that gr8.

Killzone 2's AI is easily comparable to F.E.A.R.'s. But short campaigns this gen really disappoint.

Orchid87

[QUOTE="Orchid87"]

Killzone 2's AI is easily comparable to F.E.A.R.'s. But short campaigns this gen really disappoint.

bobbleheadrogue

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"]

[QUOTE="Kimbo_Slyce"]You're just such a douche that I'm not even going to bother replying. Nice one therekilling a dog giving birth, kicking her skull in, eating her young, taking a piss on her and then lighting her on fire. You're the worst troll I've ever seen in my life. Good job. I'm going to make a second account just like you and totally crash threads, all while flying past all this site's loopholes and seeming like an idiot so that the mods dont suspend me for disruptive posting.

Kimbo_Slyce

Kimbo you have completely gone downhill in this thread. I read every single one of your posts and also read savage's posts. While he countered every single point of yours, almost all of your posts consisted of ad hominems and "LEAVE MAH THREAD, LEAVE MAH THREAD". If you want shoulders to cry on and no one to counter your points, don't post here.

Try out Counter Strike: Source. The multiplayer bots in that game are now outstanding, almost impossible to differentiate from real players (you can even spectate them first person, and most people would have no doubts it if they were told that it was a real player they were spectating).CentricStorm

I think the most annoying aspect about AI can be that they seem to have eyes in their back and will shoot you if you come within range, so you can't sneak up on them. This is more prevalent in console shooters though, especially if they're a bit more arcadey and just require you to mow down hordes of enemies. Luckily I haven't seen this in the more recent PC shooters I played (f.e. Far Cry 2, Shadow of Chernobyl, Call of Pripyat, Crysis, and I think Battlefield 2 although that's an old game).

[QUOTE="CentricStorm"]Try out Counter Strike: Source. The multiplayer bots in that game are now outstanding, almost impossible to differentiate from real players (you can even spectate them first person, and most people would have no doubts it if they were told that it was a real player they were spectating).Arjdagr8

[QUOTE="Arjdagr8"]

[QUOTE="CentricStorm"]Try out Counter Strike: Source. The multiplayer bots in that game are now outstanding, almost impossible to differentiate from real players (you can even spectate them first person, and most people would have no doubts it if they were told that it was a real player they were spectating).skrat_01

Well from the recent posts in this thread it is clear that everyone has mixed views on the AI in FPS games. Some people complain that AI enemies have 'heat-seeking bullets' with perfect aim that never misses, and 'eyes in the back of their head' with 100% player awareness. Other people complain that AI enemies have poor accuracy and 'miss so many clues...where an enemy might have quickly gone across their view' with low awareness of players. A few people don't even want AI to improve because they would rather have scripted AI until real AI becomes 100% perfect (which won't happen for a long time).CentricStorm

Well from the recent posts in this thread it is clear that everyone has mixed views on the AI in FPS games. Some people complain that AI enemies have 'heat-seeking bullets' with perfect aim that never misses, and 'eyes in the back of their head' with 100% player awareness. Other people complain that AI enemies have poor accuracy and 'miss so many clues...where an enemy might have quickly gone across their view' with low awareness of players. A few people don't even want AI to improve because they would rather have scripted AI until real AI becomes 100% perfect (which won't happen for a long time).CentricStorm

It's all about balance, really. Smart AI and cheap AI aren't the same. If the AI is able to miss you from point blank range if you only sidestep (like in Goldeneye), that's pretty lame. But it's also lame when enemies can hit you from over 100m distances with a dodgy machine gun (bots in most Battlefield games).

[QUOTE="CentricStorm"]Well from the recent posts in this thread it is clear that everyone has mixed views on the AI in FPS games. Some people complain that AI enemies have 'heat-seeking bullets' with perfect aim that never misses, and 'eyes in the back of their head' with 100% player awareness. Other people complain that AI enemies have poor accuracy and 'miss so many clues...where an enemy might have quickly gone across their view' with low awareness of players. A few people don't even want AI to improve because they would rather have scripted AI until real AI becomes 100% perfect (which won't happen for a long time).DraugenCP

It's all about balance, really. Smart AI and cheap AI aren't the same. If the AI is able to miss you from point blank range if you only sidestep (like in Goldeneye), that's pretty lame. But it's also lame when enemies can hit you from over 100m distances with a dodgy machine gun (bots in most Battlefield games).

[QUOTE="CentricStorm"]Well from the recent posts in this thread it is clear that everyone has mixed views on the AI in FPS games. Some people complain that AI enemies have 'heat-seeking bullets' with perfect aim that never misses, and 'eyes in the back of their head' with 100% player awareness. Other people complain that AI enemies have poor accuracy and 'miss so many clues...where an enemy might have quickly gone across their view' with low awareness of players. A few people don't even want AI to improve because they would rather have scripted AI until real AI becomes 100% perfect (which won't happen for a long time).Arjdagr8

An a.i. that is more aggressive when you're low on ammo? Sure. A.i. that can be tricked that you are low on ammo, thus luring them out of cover; more difficult, but even more tangible. Then you have to make it so the player can read the a.i's behavior properly.

Which is why I do applaud games like ArmA 2, that factor in a number of variables well beyond the conservative reaches of games like Uncharted 2; despite not looking nearly as convincing (having much more human like responses (to quite frankly millions of more variables) buried in their code).

As far as more 'conservative' combat scope artificial intelligence goes, I still think FEAR is right at the top. The aggressive moment and flanking of the a.i matched the fast combat pacing, and balanced with the players human advantages, and other mechanics like the time slowdown, and holding multiple weapons. Believable behavior, and genuinely challenging.

[QUOTE="Arjdagr8"]

[QUOTE="CentricStorm"]Well from the recent posts in this thread it is clear that everyone has mixed views on the AI in FPS games. Some people complain that AI enemies have 'heat-seeking bullets' with perfect aim that never misses, and 'eyes in the back of their head' with 100% player awareness. Other people complain that AI enemies have poor accuracy and 'miss so many clues...where an enemy might have quickly gone across their view' with low awareness of players. A few people don't even want AI to improve because they would rather have scripted AI until real AI becomes 100% perfect (which won't happen for a long time).skrat_01

An a.i. that is more aggressive when you're low on ammo? Sure. A.i. that can be tricked that you are low on ammo, thus luring them out of cover; more difficult, but even more tangible. Then you have to make it so the player can read the a.i's behavior properly.

Which is why I do applaud games like ArmA 2, that factor in a number of variables well beyond the conservative reaches of games like Uncharted 2; despite not looking nearly as convincing (having much more human like responses (to quite frankly millions of more variables) buried in their code).

As far as more 'conservative' combat scope artificial intelligence goes, I still think FEAR is right at the top. The aggressive moment and flanking of the a.i matched the fast combat pacing, and balanced with the players human advantages, and other mechanics like the time slowdown, and holding multiple weapons. Believable behavior, and genuinely challenging.

I don't know, I find a lot of upcoming shooters incredibly boring, but this sense of creative stagnation is not endemic to the genre. It feels like it's a bigger problem than it used to be, but maybe it's all my imagination or due to my increasing shooter fatigue. Medal of Honor is certainly not though.

For what it's worth, these are the upcoming shooters I'm interested by. Some might employ generic game design, but I feel there's a drive to make the game stand out in some fashion that appeals to me.

Brink - Objective-driven, cla.ss-based parkour thing with fresh presentation. It's a cool looking game.
Bulletstorm - Find the stupid humor and creative combo gameplay enticing.
Kane & Lynch 2 - Was a fan of the first's st.yle, tone and level design. Was unlike other games.
Spec Ops: The Line - Similar to the above, promises an unconventional story, atmosphere and setting.

And for better or worse I'll probably always remain a big fan of Battlefield, so despite looking a hypocrite I'm looking forward to more of the same with the Vietnam expansion.

I don't know, I find a lot of upcoming shooters incredibly boring, but this sense of creative stagnation is not endemic to the genre. It feels like it's a bigger problem than it used to be, but maybe it's all my imagination or due to my increasing shooter fatigue. Medal of Honor is certainly not though.

For what it's worth, these are the upcoming shooters I'm interested by. Some might employ generic game design, but I feel there's a drive to make the game stand out in some fashion that appeals to me.

Brink - Objective-driven, cla.ss-based parkour thing with fresh presentation. It's a cool looking game.
Bulletstorm - Find the stupid humor and creative combo gameplay enticing.
Kane & Lynch 2 - Was a fan of the first's st.yle, tone and level design. Was unlike other games.
Spec Ops: The Line - Similar to the above, promises an unconventional story, atmosphere and setting.

And for better or worse I'll probably always remain a big fan of Battlefield, so despite looking a hypocrite I'm looking forward to more of the same with the Vietnam expansion.

InsaneBasura