My theory of why the NGP will outsell the 3DS in North America/UK/AU.

No it won't amd TL;DR.

[QUOTE="michael582"]

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] :|No, The reason the PSP2 has a touch screen is to: A)More control schemes for for developers to use. B) To keep up with/surpass the DS/3DS in terms of controls. But when the DS was created it used the touch screen as a clutch to sell. Did you even read my OP?-Big_Red-

Right there, you said it yourself.

When the orginal ds came out, it was for the same reason.

DS= developer's system

Sure, same with the psp2 and the 2nd analog stick. That doesn't mean its a gimmick. Maybe you should look up the term.

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"][QUOTE="michael582"]

Right there, you said it yourself.

When the orginal ds came out, it was for the same reason.

DS= developer's system

michael582

Sure, same with the psp2 and the 2nd analog stick. That doesn't mean its a gimmick. Maybe you should look up the term.

1. As I've said before 3DS is a gimmick. Does it seem nearly as appealing without it?-Big_Red-

Yes, because the 3D (for me) comes second to games. Hell, it probably comes in last to everything else the system has to offer; it's just a neat little feature. Would it draw as many casuals? Maybe not, but Nintendo has some great 1st party franchises that I can't get anywhere else.

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"]1. As I've said before 3DS is a gimmick. Does it seem nearly as appealing without it?Nubukon

Yes, because the 3D (for me) comes second to games. Hell, it probably comes in last to everything else the system has to offer; it's just a neat little feature. Would it draw as many casuals? Maybe not, but Nintendo has some great 1st party franchises that I can't get anywhere else.

[QUOTE="michael582"]

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] And you don't think that Nintendo used that as a crutch to sell it's system?-Big_Red-

Sure, same with the psp2 and the 2nd analog stick. That doesn't mean its a gimmick. Maybe you should look up the term.

Yea, the 2nd analog enhances gameplay...

and so does the touch screen. It's now basically mandatory to have a touch screen on a portable device. Without one you're missing out. Thus the touch screen on the ds was not a gimmick but an innovation. It has purpose and value, and is now needed.

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"]

[QUOTE="michael582"]

Sure, same with the psp2 and the 2nd analog stick. That doesn't mean its a gimmick. Maybe you should look up the term.

Yea, the 2nd analog enhances gameplay...

and so does the touch screen. It's now basically mandatory to have a touch screen on a portable device. Without one you're missing out. Thus the touch screen on the ds was not a gimmick but an innovation. It has purpose and value, and is now needed.

[QUOTE="Silent_Bob32"][QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] :lol: Now you're just indenial. Which console has the potential to make better games... A Sega Dreamcast, Or a Gamcube?-Big_Red-

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"][QUOTE="Silent_Bob32"] You didn't answer my question. And if we're going by which actually produced better games, then it's the Gamecube, but it did so because of it's first party support, not because it was a graphics powerhouse. Which produced better games, the Gamecube or the PS2? Because the obvious answer is the PS2, which incidentally was a less powerful system. Funny how that works out.King_Dodongo

[QUOTE="michael582"]

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] It definitely was a gimmick, at the same time it was an innovation. And the second analog stick is necessary. Don't you remember people b****ing about the original PSP lacking one?

-Big_Red-

Yea, the 2nd analog enhances gameplay...

and so does the touch screen. It's now basically mandatory to have a touch screen on a portable device. Without one you're missing out. Thus the touch screen on the ds was not a gimmick but an innovation. It has purpose and value, and is now needed.

So it's bad for a company too innovate and try something new? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

You seem to be misunderstanding the reason play CoD on consoles.

1) Online. While the NGP will offer an online experience, probably on par with the PS3, the PS3 has the benefit it that it has a secure connection. You hook up your PS3 to the internet, and you know you're good to get online whenever you want. The NGP, on the other hand, will be at the whim of whatever Wireless Hotspot you happen to be by, or at best offer a ad hoc connection for you to connect with people directly around you. Factoring in the constraints of battery life, I fail to see any reason someone would run out to buy a NGP simply to play FPS.

2) They simply play better on home consoles. If someone wants to play CoD, they're going to get it on the main platforms. They're going to get the ebst experience they can - not some gimped portable version. Did you play the PSP? The main problem was that Sony assumed that you could take a console experience, water it down to a handheld form, and people would flock to it. But it doesn't work that way - people play portables because they like games designed for said portable. Again, if someone wants a console experience, they'll go for the console, not the inferior port of it.

Not to mention, FPS have been done on the DS, masterfully I might add. But again, the shooters weren't ports of a console game (Which CoD will undoubtedly be)

Dementium: The Ward and Metroid Primer: Hunters.

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"][QUOTE="michael582"]

Yea, the 2nd analog enhances gameplay...

and so does the touch screen. It's now basically mandatory to have a touch screen on a portable device. Without one you're missing out. Thus the touch screen on the ds was not a gimmick but an innovation. It has purpose and value, and is now needed.

So it's bad for a company too innovate and try something new? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

[QUOTE="michael582"]

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] It was both actually. I'm all for innovations, but when a company uses that innovations, and a moderate one at that, it's somewhat in bad taste.-Big_Red-

So it's bad for a company too innovate and try something new? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Lol. BigRed is really trolling this thread with his bias.

Also, why is it nowadays, everytime something new is added to gaming it is called a 'gimmick.'

I guess this mean Dual analogs, rumble, joysticks were gimmicks when they were introduced too.

Gamers complain about things been the same and not changing, then when things are changed the complain and call it a gimmick.

[QUOTE="michael582"]

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] It was both actually. I'm all for innovations, but when a company uses that innovations, and a moderate one at that, it's somewhat in bad taste.-Big_Red-

So it's bad for a company too innovate and try something new? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"][QUOTE="michael582"]

So it's bad for a company too innovate and try something new? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Lol. BigRed is really trolling this thread with his bias.

Also, why is it nowadays, everytime something new is added to gaming it is called a 'gimmick.'

I guess this mean Dual analogs, rumble, joysticks were gimmicks when they were introduced too.

Gamers complain about things been the same and not changing, then when things are changed the complain and call it a gimmick.

[QUOTE="michael582"]

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] It was both actually. I'm all for innovations, but when a company uses that innovations, and a moderate one at that, it's somewhat in bad taste.-Big_Red-

So it's bad for a company too innovate and try something new? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

So in other words you hate Nintendo. That's fine and all, but at least make valid, real points like there crappy online system. Not that there innovating too much.:lol:

Well scientists propose theories constantly and they usually prove to be wrong. This one should be about the norm in that regard.

[QUOTE="Wii4Fun"]

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] It's just that nintendo has done it with it's last three systems. It's getting somewhat... Tiresome to look at.-Big_Red-

Lol. BigRed is really trolling this thread with his bias.

Also, why is it nowadays, everytime something new is added to gaming it is called a 'gimmick.'

I guess this mean Dual analogs, rumble, joysticks were gimmicks when they were introduced too.

Gamers complain about things been the same and not changing, then when things are changed the complain and call it a gimmick.

So then something like Red Steel 2 (as flawed as it was) could be done with DA?

Also, I chose that username because the Wii is what got me interested in gaming, it is the reason I'm even posting on boards like this. But I still would own all consoles if I had the money. I'm not a fanboy who defends one company at all costs while bashing the others.

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"][QUOTE="michael582"]

So it's bad for a company too innovate and try something new? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

michael582

So in other words you hate Nintendo. That's fine and all, but at least make valid, real points like there crappy online system. Not that there innovating too much.:lol:

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"][QUOTE="michael582"]

So it's bad for a company too innovate and try something new? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

So in other words you hate Nintendo. That's fine and all, but at least make valid, real points like there crappy online system. Not that there innovating too much.:lol:

The 3DS has more complex visuals than any console before it(3D without glasses) The media WILL blow things out of proportion, and make things very rough for the 3DS, some eye doctors may even argue that the 3DS is more likely to trigger this than other consoles.-Big_Red-

Well at least for me I'm more sold on a day one purchase of the NGP than the 3ds....I'm willing to bet by the end of 2012 a 3ds "lite" will be out. By then enough good games that fully utilize the device will be out and maybe the price will be at 229.99 or even 200 (won't hold my breath on that one ;) )

As for the NGP, it's looking like everything I want in an on the go device. Plus I feel it will have more games that pique my interest. Sure it will be more expensive, but if it has the features and the library during the launch window to back it up, I will chose that as my first next-gen handheld.

Neither system is out yet, and we have no idea how the world will react to the 3ds once it is out of the hands of closed nintendo conferences. We also still know VERY little about the NGP, but right now my wallets leaning more towards the NGP.

1. No it doesn't. The NGP has more new features/controls than just being powered up. All the 3DS has besides being powered up is 3D.

2. You can bet your ass that 3rd party developers are drollong over the NGP's capabilities, and one of the reasons that the PSP didn't have much 3rd party support is because of it's controls. Guess what... Nintendo has fixed this issue with the NGP.

3. I've already addressed this in my OP. If you don't agree that a system with superior graphical power has the ability to make better games, then I cannot help you. Not to metion I've already stated in my OP why the DS outsold the PSP, and why the Wii outsold the PS3.-Big_Red-

1. Wrong. The 3DS has many new features, including a 3D camera, improved online functionality, an analog stick, gyroscope, accelerometer, improved multimedia, SpotPass and StreetPass, Augmented Reality, and many more. The fact that you didn't even know this means that the rest of your arguments arre already null and void.

2. Yeah, third party developers were drooling over the PSP too. Remember how everybody wanted to jump aboard the PSP bandwagon? Remember how that turned out? HINT: Not very well. Thitd parties continued to release quality efforts on the system, which simply wouldn't sell, and the system itself began to die down.

3. If graphics are all that are needed to make a system capable of better games, then why are games like Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy VII and even Super Mario Galaxy 2, all of them on considerably weaker systems, supposed to be better than stuff like Gears of War and God of War?

[QUOTE="Silent_Bob32"][QUOTE="-Big_Red-"]Don't you think that Super Smash Bros. Brawl would of been better if it were on the PS3/360?-Big_Red-

It depends on the quality of the game itself. There are NES games that are just as fun to play as anything on a current generation console. While hardware plays a role in the quality of software, there are other factors to consider.

does sales matter that much?

3DS will have pokemon. 3DS wins.

Monster hunter is nothing.

I would probably get the NGP first. With the power and controls that it has it should allow devs more options in developing their games. I hope the price is good.

I would probably get the NGP first. With the power and controls that it has it should allow devs more options in developing their games. I hope the price is good.

HaLoMaStErJT

[QUOTE="michael582"]

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] It's just that nintendo has done it with it's last three systems. It's getting somewhat... Tiresome to look at.-Big_Red-

So in other words you hate Nintendo. That's fine and all, but at least make valid, real points like there crappy online system. Not that there innovating too much.:lol:

So why then do you hate them so much? You've done nothing but bash nintendo products in this thread. I would like to hear the reasons why you actually like Nintendo

So you're basically saying that the NGP will outsell the 3DS in the long run? [QUOTE="-Big_Red-"]The 3DS has more complex visuals than any console before it(3D without glasses) The media WILL blow things out of proportion, and make things very rough for the 3DS, some eye doctors may even argue that the 3DS is more likely to trigger this than other consoles.Pvt_r3d

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"]1. No it doesn't. The NGP has more new features/controls than just being powered up. All the 3DS has besides being powered up is 3D.

2. You can bet your ass that 3rd party developers are drollong over the NGP's capabilities, and one of the reasons that the PSP didn't have much 3rd party support is because of it's controls. Guess what... Nintendo has fixed this issue with the NGP.

3. I've already addressed this in my OP. If you don't agree that a system with superior graphical power has the ability to make better games, then I cannot help you. Not to metion I've already stated in my OP why the DS outsold the PSP, and why the Wii outsold the PS3.

1. Wrong. The 3DS has many new features, including a 3D camera, improved online functionality, an analog stick, gyroscope, accelerometer, improved multimedia, SpotPass and StreetPass, Augmented Reality, and many more. The fact that you didn't even know this means that the rest of your arguments arre already null and void.

2. Yeah, third party developers were drooling over the PSP too. Remember how everybody wanted to jump aboard the PSP bandwagon? Remember how that turned out? HINT: Not very well. Thitd parties continued to release quality efforts on the system, which simply wouldn't sell, and the system itself began to die down.

3. If graphics are all that are needed to make a system capable of better games, then why are games like Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy VII and even Super Mario Galaxy 2, all of them on considerably weaker systems, supposed to be better than stuff like Gears of War and God of War?

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"][QUOTE="Silent_Bob32"] No it wouldn't be. Why would HD graphics make the game any more fun than it already is?caryslan2

It depends on the quality of the game itself. There are NES games that are just as fun to play as anything on a current generation console. While hardware plays a role in the quality of software, there are other factors to consider.

does sales matter that much?

3DS will have pokemon. 3DS wins.

Monster hunter is nothing.

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"][QUOTE="michael582"]

So in other words you hate Nintendo. That's fine and all, but at least make valid, real points like there crappy online system. Not that there innovating too much.:lol:

So why then do you hate them so much? You've done nothing but bash nintendo products in this thread. I would like to hear the reasons why you actually like Nintendo

TL;DR Damn, you nearly wrote an entire essay... And you're wrong.

TL;DR Damn, you nearly wrote an entire essay... And you're wrong.

DerpyMcDerp

I made many other points.-Big_Red-

Good lord no. Your main argument was Nintendo and its gimmicks, then branching it off into other vague and repetitive statements. You used the word "gimmick" like 10 times in your two paragraphs.

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] I made many other points.SpinoRaptor24

Good lord no. Your main argument was Nintendo and its gimmicks, then branching it off into other vague and repetitive statements. You used the word "gimmick" like 10 times in your two paragraphs.

I dont know NA seems to be a huge fan of gimmicky crap.

Thread starter, on your point that the 3DS is a powered up DS with 3D, i'll say this for the last time.

The DS had 4MB of RAM.

The 3DS will have 96 MB of RAM.

I don't have a lot of info on the CPU/GPU, but following a logical point of view aswell as common sense, i can expect it to be on par with the jump in RAM. The jump in power is far greater from Nintendo's point of view, since the SNES to N64 jump. Wen providing a logical argument, one point of view is not enough, but you must comprehend other points of view.

I don't care if you tell me you're not biased, because judging from everything you've written and not accepting any different point of views except your own (the interpretation of logic is subjective itself, brother) obviously you are.

And the games don't look bad, at all, wen you're playing it in your hands on that small screen. To make my point of view understandable about Nintendo's jump, i'll compare two versions.

[Resident Evil 3DS]

[Resident Evil DS]

About the gimmicks, i agree with that, gimmicks sell, and it's one of main reasons the DS and the Wii sold so much. Probably why the 3DS will also sell as much. But without some damn decent games, i guarantee you, it'll fail bad sooner or later.

Good games sell, end of. Power is a plus, but not a neccesity. To make my point clear, look at the PS2 with it's 32MB of RAM and its games. God of War II; Shadow of the Colossus; Metal Gear Solid 3; Grand Turismo 4; Tekken 5, and others.

As for the rest of your text, i don't really care, man. I'm not buying neither of the handhelds, i honestly don't give a crap about handhelds. I'm a PC elitist. I just felt like correcting your view on things a bit, and your mistake regarding the 3DS's power. I'm a bit bored around here.

[QUOTE="rcafan"][QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] Your only rebuttle to my theory is "3DS has Pokemon, 3DS wins". That is a very poor rebuttle don't you think? I've addressed any reasons as to why the 3DS could possibly outsell the NGP in non Asian countries. Why do you think that FPS's are much more popular than Pokemon/RPG games on consoles, but not on handhelds? Because FPS's(or third person shooters for that matter) couldn't work on handhelds.... Until the NGP came along.-Big_Red-

[QUOTE="SpinoRaptor24"]

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] I made many other points.-Big_Red-

Good lord no. Your main argument was Nintendo and its gimmicks, then branching it off into other vague and repetitive statements. You used the word "gimmick" like 10 times in your two paragraphs.

I'm pretty sure that the NGP knows what it is, and what it is aspring to be.-Big_Red-

That is all I am seeing at this point....

Why is this topic still around? Power doesnt matter in the end, all that matters are the games and the fun you have with these said games.

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"]1. No it doesn't. The NGP has more new features/controls than just being powered up. All the 3DS has besides being powered up is 3D.

2. You can bet your ass that 3rd party developers are drollong over the NGP's capabilities, and one of the reasons that the PSP didn't have much 3rd party support is because of it's controls. Guess what... Nintendo has fixed this issue with the NGP.

3. I've already addressed this in my OP. If you don't agree that a system with superior graphical power has the ability to make better games, then I cannot help you. Not to metion I've already stated in my OP why the DS outsold the PSP, and why the Wii outsold the PS3.-Big_Red-

1. Wrong. The 3DS has many new features, including a 3D camera, improved online functionality, an analog stick, gyroscope, accelerometer, improved multimedia, SpotPass and StreetPass, Augmented Reality, and many more. The fact that you didn't even know this means that the rest of your arguments arre already null and void.

2. Yeah, third party developers were drooling over the PSP too. Remember how everybody wanted to jump aboard the PSP bandwagon? Remember how that turned out? HINT: Not very well. Thitd parties continued to release quality efforts on the system, which simply wouldn't sell, and the system itself began to die down.

3. If graphics are all that are needed to make a system capable of better games, then why are games like Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy VII and even Super Mario Galaxy 2, all of them on considerably weaker systems, supposed to be better than stuff like Gears of War and God of War?

2. That's true, and the NGP will have better games than the PSP did hopefully. However, how do we know that those games will be better than the games the 3DS will be getting? How do we know that third parties won't be able to work with the unique architecture of the 3DS to craft something that is at least equally compelling as the best NGP games? Just because the NGP finally has two analog inputs doesn't mean that it automatically will get better games.

3. If there is someone who honestly thinks that God of War or Gears of War are better than Ocarina or Final Fantasy VII... well, I won't be judgemental, but I will say that that person will find him or herself in a vastly outnumbered minority. That person will find that almost no one will agree with him or her.
The point is, all that power WILL NOT HELP. Ultimately, what matters is how the developers use that power to make games. You're talking about how extra power COULD be used to make better games. But that's all that this is- a COULD BE scenario. You have no way of knowing that the NGP WILL have better games than the 3DS, you're just clutching at straws, and making bold proclamations.

You claim to love Nintendo... in this thread, you've done nothing but spewed venom for them. All you've done is criticized them, while constantly singing praises for Sony. Try and deny it as much as you like, but it is very clear that you have a strong pro Sony and anti Nintendo bias.

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"][QUOTE="charizard1605"]

1. Wrong. The 3DS has many new features, including a 3D camera, improved online functionality, an analog stick, gyroscope, accelerometer, improved multimedia, SpotPass and StreetPass, Augmented Reality, and many more. The fact that you didn't even know this means that the rest of your arguments arre already null and void.

2. Yeah, third party developers were drooling over the PSP too. Remember how everybody wanted to jump aboard the PSP bandwagon? Remember how that turned out? HINT: Not very well. Thitd parties continued to release quality efforts on the system, which simply wouldn't sell, and the system itself began to die down.

3. If graphics are all that are needed to make a system capable of better games, then why are games like Ocarina of Time, Final Fantasy VII and even Super Mario Galaxy 2, all of them on considerably weaker systems, supposed to be better than stuff like Gears of War and God of War?

charizard1605

2. That's true, and the NGP will have better games than the PSP did hopefully. However, how do we know that those games will be better than the games the 3DS will be getting? How do we know that third parties won't be able to work with the unique architecture of the 3DS to craft something that is at least equally compelling as the best NGP games? Just because the NGP finally has two analog inputs doesn't mean that it automatically will get better games.

3. If there is someone who honestly thinks that God of War or Gears of War are better than Ocarina or Final Fantasy VII... well, I won't be judgemental, but I will say that that person will find him or herself in a vastly outnumbered minority. That person will find that almost no one will agree with him or her.
The point is, all that power WILL NOT HELP. Ultimately, what matters is how the developers use that power to make games. You're talking about how extra power COULD be used to make better games. But that's all that this is- a COULD BE scenario. You have no way of knowing that the NGP WILL have better games than the 3DS, you're just clutching at straws, and making bold proclamations.

You claim to love Nintendo... in this thread, you've done nothing but spewed venom for them. All you've done is criticized them, while constantly singing praises for Sony. Try and deny it as much as you like, but it is very clear that you have a strong pro Sony and anti Nintendo bias.

3. Haven't you heard of opinions? People love GOW(both of them)

And no I'm not, in one of my posts I even said why I love Nintendo. It should be on this page.

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]

[QUOTE="-Big_Red-"] 1. I will admit that I was ignoran in that aspect. 2. The PSP couldn't completely support many types of games. While on the other hand the NGP can. 3. Many people believe that Gears of War, and God of War is much better than those three games that you mentioned. And I definitely never said that a powerful system is all you need for good games. What I did say is that a powerful system is capable of producing better games.-Big_Red-

2. That's true, and the NGP will have better games than the PSP did hopefully. However, how do we know that those games will be better than the games the 3DS will be getting? How do we know that third parties won't be able to work with the unique architecture of the 3DS to craft something that is at least equally compelling as the best NGP games? Just because the NGP finally has two analog inputs doesn't mean that it automatically will get better games.

3. If there is someone who honestly thinks that God of War or Gears of War are better than Ocarina or Final Fantasy VII... well, I won't be judgemental, but I will say that that person will find him or herself in a vastly outnumbered minority. That person will find that almost no one will agree with him or her.
The point is, all that power WILL NOT HELP. Ultimately, what matters is how the developers use that power to make games. You're talking about how extra power COULD be used to make better games. But that's all that this is- a COULD BE scenario. You have no way of knowing that the NGP WILL have better games than the 3DS, you're just clutching at straws, and making bold proclamations.

You claim to love Nintendo... in this thread, you've done nothing but spewed venom for them. All you've done is criticized them, while constantly singing praises for Sony. Try and deny it as much as you like, but it is very clear that you have a strong pro Sony and anti Nintendo bias.

3. Haven't you heard of opinions? People love GOW(both of them)

And no I'm not, in one of my posts I even said why I love Nintendo. It should be on this page.

3. Yeah, I've heard of opinions. Yeah, people love Gears and God of War. Hell, I love those games myself, God of War is one of the best games I've played in a long time. But you know what the question is? How many of them think that the two GoWs are better than FF7 or OoT or the original MGS or Super Mario 64 or Metroid Prime?