Nintendo 3D-S to be much more powerful then wii and closer to xbox360 and ps3

Nvidia Tegra 2 SoC does have rather impressive specs: it features dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 central processing unit, GeForce graphics core with programmable pixel shader and programmable vertex shader support (OpenGL ES 2.0 compatible), build-in low-power DDR2 memory controller, NAND flash memory controller, audio processor, high-definition video processor that supports MPEG 4, H.264, VC-1/WMV9 decoding, H.264 and MPEG4 encoding and features some other capabilities. Nvidia claims that Tegra 2 has about four times performance advantage compared to the first-generation Tegra SoC.

It''s rumored to use the Tegra 2, sounds pretty damn powerful to me.VideoGameGuy

wasn't that rumor shot down?

"According to several developer sources, the 3DS device is not using the NVIDIA Tegra mobile chipset, a rumor that's been floating around since 2009. "

http://ds.ign.com/articles/109/1094930p1.html

[QUOTE="Sekeru"]

And you can't just take a GPU made for desktop use and compare power usage.Of course its not gonna be low power enough to use in a handheld device.I'm not sure why you are using ATI as your example.They are not even putting their energies in making mobile GPUS.

ronvalencia

Note why I use the Mobility GPUs not desktop GPUs.

As for "They are not even putting their energies in making mobile GPUS" comment, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 beats my old Geforce 8600MGT/9500M GS/GT120M and rivals Geforce GT330M. This is for 14 to 15 inch thin gaming laptops.

You have to look at products being made by PowerVR to get a good look at what can and can't be done in a mobile solution. Now am i saying that there are mobile GPUs that beat the performance of the 360s GPU?

Sekeru

But look at PowerVR IP powered Intel GMA 500. PowerVR GPUs is no where near ATI Xenos.

The mobile GPUs that beat ATI Xenos mostly come from ATI and NVIDIA.

Ok well sorry i didn't see that you used the word mobile.But still the mobile line of GPUs are just down clocked versions desktop GPUs.So its not like some amazing advancement they've made.And laptop mobile doesnt equal the type of lower powered solutions you need in something the size of the DS or PSP.And PowerVR still has a GPU they announced but have yet to show off so how do you know it couldn't rival that of the 360?Not saying it will but you state your opinion on the matter as fact.

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]Nvidia Tegra 2 SoC does have rather impressive specs: it features dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 central processing unit, GeForce graphics core with programmable pixel shader and programmable vertex shader support (OpenGL ES 2.0 compatible), build-in low-power DDR2 memory controller, NAND flash memory controller, audio processor, high-definition video processor that supports MPEG 4, H.264, VC-1/WMV9 decoding, H.264 and MPEG4 encoding and features some other capabilities. Nvidia claims that Tegra 2 has about four times performance advantage compared to the first-generation Tegra SoC.

It''s rumored to use the Tegra 2, sounds pretty damn powerful to me.

wasn't that rumor shot down?

"According to several developer sources, the 3DS device is not using the NVIDIA Tegra mobile chipset, a rumor that's been floating around since 2009. "

http://ds.ign.com/articles/109/1094930p1.html

[QUOTE="_R34LiTY_"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]Nvidia Tegra 2 SoC does have rather impressive specs: it features dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 central processing unit, GeForce graphics core with programmable pixel shader and programmable vertex shader support (OpenGL ES 2.0 compatible), build-in low-power DDR2 memory controller, NAND flash memory controller, audio processor, high-definition video processor that supports MPEG 4, H.264, VC-1/WMV9 decoding, H.264 and MPEG4 encoding and features some other capabilities. Nvidia claims that Tegra 2 has about four times performance advantage compared to the first-generation Tegra SoC.

It''s rumored to use the Tegra 2, sounds pretty damn powerful to me.VideoGameGuy

wasn't that rumor shot down?

"According to several developer sources, the 3DS device is not using the NVIDIA Tegra mobile chipset, a rumor that's been floating around since 2009. "

http://ds.ign.com/articles/109/1094930p1.html

So if the system isn't using the Tegra 2 chipset, what could it use to achieve its rumored capabilities? A multicore PowerVR SGX543? This was rumored at one point for the PSP2...

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"][QUOTE="_R34LiTY_"]

wasn't that rumor shot down?

"According to several developer sources, the 3DS device is not using the NVIDIA Tegra mobile chipset, a rumor that's been floating around since 2009. "

http://ds.ign.com/articles/109/1094930p1.html

SakusEnvoy

So if the system isn't using the Tegra 2 chipset, what could it use to achieve its rumored capabilities? A multicore PowerVR SGX543? This was rumored at one point for the PSP2...

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

[QUOTE="Sekeru"]

Note why I use the Mobility GPUs not desktop GPUs.

As for "They are not even putting their energies in making mobile GPUS" comment, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4650 beats my old Geforce 8600MGT/9500M GS/GT120M and rivals Geforce GT330M. This is for 14 to 15 inch thin gaming laptops.

[QUOTE="Sekeru"]

You have to look at products being made by PowerVR to get a good look at what can and can't be done in a mobile solution. Now am i saying that there are mobile GPUs that beat the performance of the 360s GPU?

Sekeru

But look at PowerVR IP powered Intel GMA 500. PowerVR GPUs is no where near ATI Xenos.

The mobile GPUs that beat ATI Xenos mostly come from ATI and NVIDIA.

Ok well sorry i didn't see that you used the word mobile.But still the mobile line of GPUs are just down clocked versions desktop GPUs.So its not like some amazing advancement they've made.And laptop mobile doesnt equal the type of lower powered solutions you need in something the size of the DS or PSP.And PowerVR still has a GPU they announced but have yet to show off so how do you know it couldn't rival that of the 360?Not saying it will but you state your opinion on the matter as fact.

Usually, PC mobile parts are the chips with less fabrication defects, thus enabling these parts to run lower voltage and amperage. Defects adds "noise" in the chip's circuit, thus they need higher voltage and amperage to operate at a target clock speed.

Another example, mobile Core 2 Duo P8700 2.5Ghz consumes around 25 watts while it's desktop counterpart consumes around 65 watts.

As for "how do you know it couldn't rival that of the 360" question; like PowerVR GPUs, ATI Xenos is a tiling architecture GPU and still within the current generation unified shader and decouped shader/textureunit designs.ATI Xenos has spent it's transistor budget mostly on performance.

Given similar application targets, It's no brainer that Radeon HD 46x0(RV730) is better than ATI Xenos, since RV730 used 512 million transistors while Xenos used 337 million transistors. You have to consider transistors consumes energy and ATI is a compentent GPU design house.

Are you claiming a unified shader 100 million transistors GPU beating another unified shader 337 million transistors GPU?

Without a good track record on pure performance, I have near zero faith with Imgtech.

AMD Ontario prototype was shown run AvP DX11 at HD resolution (atleast 720p) which targets thenetbook form factor.

No one said that the 3DS will match the PS360 pound per pound. At most, it will be slightly more powerful than Wii but the GPU will be loaded with effects that are common on the HD consoles.

What do you have to say to that, ron?

IronstaunchB

Somebody stated"close" to Xbox 360 or PS3.

As for graphical effects,the same thing can be said for low end unified shader PC GPUs.Again, refer to ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3300 IGP example.

Atm, PowerVR IP powered Intel GMA 500 is a joke.

If you want more info on Tegra2 and SGX540refer to http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=56059

1,000 dollar handheld here we come?

I'm not sure how this will work if nintendo wants to keep it in a budget like range like all their other handhelds have been. I and many others are not going to buy a handheld the cost of a console.

Wowronvalenciathat took a while for you to reply.I thought you were done but apparently you just don't get it.Yeah i know all that about mobile GPUS and so you agree they are underclocked undervolted desktop parts.And just because they are both a tilling archecture GPU doesnt mean they will perform the same transistor to transistor.How the hell you can argue that is beyond my understanding.And the new PowerVR GPUs have spent all the transitors to puer performance according to their newest press release.And do you know that the PowerVR GPU is multicore possible right?And again transistors don't equal performance.Never has never will.And yeah they haven't had a good track record but thats because of Driver problems on the Desktop/notebook front.Bad drivers can make a good GPU look like a 5 year old one.And yes AMD is trying to bring something to market that seems nice but hell Intels Sandy Bridge looks more impressive and they are mainly a CPU company.So again i don't know what your arguing about at this point but your again stating your opinion as fact which is dumb.So can we please get back on subject?Somehow i don't think you will......

Can't wait! :D

lol to those thinking it's actually going to be as powerful as PS3 and X360. We are talking Nintendo here people. Saying it's more powerful than the Wii isn't saying much considering it's 10 year old technology.darthogre

[QUOTE="_R34LiTY_"]

[QUOTE="VideoGameGuy"]Nvidia Tegra 2 SoC does have rather impressive specs: it features dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 central processing unit, GeForce graphics core with programmable pixel shader and programmable vertex shader support (OpenGL ES 2.0 compatible), build-in low-power DDR2 memory controller, NAND flash memory controller, audio processor, high-definition video processor that supports MPEG 4, H.264, VC-1/WMV9 decoding, H.264 and MPEG4 encoding and features some other capabilities. Nvidia claims that Tegra 2 has about four times performance advantage compared to the first-generation Tegra SoC.

It''s rumored to use the Tegra 2, sounds pretty damn powerful to me.VideoGameGuy

wasn't that rumor shot down?

"According to several developer sources, the 3DS device is not using the NVIDIA Tegra mobile chipset, a rumor that's been floating around since 2009. "

http://ds.ign.com/articles/109/1094930p1.html

I think so too. seems to give a lot of output for very little power

wow if this is true

nana na na hey hey hey good bye is what im gonna sing when i see psp haha

lol to those thinking it's actually going to be as powerful as PS3 and X360. We are talking Nintendo here people. Saying it's more powerful than the Wii isn't saying much considering it's 10 year old technology.darthogre

lol to those thinking it's actually going to be as powerful as PS3 and X360. We are talking Nintendo here people. Saying it's more powerful than the Wii isn't saying much considering it's 10 year old technology.darthogre

[QUOTE="Pug-Nasty"]

The psp is probably closer in power to the 360/ps3 than the Wii.

ThePlothole

I honestly can't tell if you were being serious or not.

Sorry, what I meant was that something doesn't have to be very powerful to be closer to the 360 or PS3 than the Wii.

Engaging Personal Debate Mode....

Wowronvalenciathat took a while for you to reply.I thought you were done but apparently you just don't get it.Yeah i know all that about mobile GPUS and so you agree they are underclocked undervolted desktop parts.And just because they are both a tilling archecture GPU doesnt mean they will perform the same transistor to transistor.How the hell you can argue that is beyond my understanding.And the new PowerVR GPUs have spent all the transitors to puer performance according to their newest press release.And do you know that the PowerVR GPU is multicore possible right?And again transistors don't equal performance.Never has never will.And yeah they haven't had a good track record but thats because of Driver problems on the Desktop/notebook front.Bad drivers can make a good GPU look like a 5 year old one.And yes AMD is trying to bring something to market that seems nice but hell Intels Sandy Bridge looks more impressive and they are mainly a CPU company.So again i don't know what your arguing about at this point but your again stating your opinion as fact which is dumb.So can we please get back on subject?Somehow i don't think you will......

Sekeru

With GPUs, one can roughly guess performance based on transistor count e.g. ATI Radeon HD 4670's 514 million transistors gets beaten up by ATI Radeon HD 5870's 2150 million transistors i.e. more ALUs/FP units, more register datastorage, register instruction storage, more texture units, more ROPs, more cache/buffers/onchip and 'etc'.

PowerVR's multicore nature is not unique. i.e. ATI and NVIDIA GPUs are already "many-cores". It seems somebody needs computer science lesson 101.

Refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA

GPUs have a parallel "many-core" architecture, each core capable of running thousands of threads simultaneously - if an application is suited to this kind of an architecture, the GPU can offer large performance benefits. This approach of solving general purpose problems on GPUs is known as GPGPU.

Haven't you notice how ATI and NVIDIA scales their DX10.X GPUs from the low end to the top end? Btw. CUDA refers to NVIDIA Geforce 8 and above. ATI Stream is the alternative.

When handheld power envelope bias reduced, the best PowerVR IP based GPU is Intel GMA 500 (for netbook power envelope).

For netbook market, AMD Fusion Ontario murders Intel GMA 500(PowerVR) inperformance. AMD Fusion Ontario delivers entry level PC HD gaming experience. AMD Fusion Ontario is currently being sampled to ODM/OEMs. For Ontario's Aliens vs. Predator DirectX 11 (includes Tesselation hardware support) demo (in HD) refer tohttp://techreport.com/discussions.x/19017This is an actual livedemo not just some paper press release.

Lets see Intel Sandy Bridge beat that. i.e. showing a frame of Mass Effect 2 (basic render scene) and not disclosing the rendering resolution doesn't impress PC gamers.

AMD Fusion Ontario is what I define as close to the Xbox 360.Again, 3DS has to beat ATI Radeon HD 3300 IGP first before Xbox 360.

We are not even factoring AMD Fusion Llano for notebook power envelope i.e. 400 shader GPU. It makes any GPUs below ATI Radeon HD 5670 redundant.

You then have factor in ATI's next generation "Southern Islands" and "Northern Islands" GPU architectures.

Intel has a long history with 3D acceleration i.e. starting with Intel i860/i960(google it) i.e. 3D processors used in early 90s SGI workstations. I do hope you know the history of SGI. Intel tried re-enterdesktop GPU market with i740 and failed. Recently, they tried again with Intel Larrabee and failed i.e. on performance it's dead on arrival.

i guess we'll wait and see, im just hoping this is below $200 (and it should be) unless it has a ton of other features that warrants a near 300 price tag (think internet browser, music, video apps etc)Microsoft1234

[QUOTE="ThePlothole"][QUOTE="Pug-Nasty"]

The psp is probably closer in power to the 360/ps3 than the Wii.

I honestly can't tell if you were being serious or not.

Sorry, what I meant was that something doesn't have to be very powerful to be closer to the 360 or PS3 than the Wii.

I really don't see that happening. As powerful as a PS3? Sounds like rubbish to me. As powerful as PSP? That's probably closer to the truth. Bread_or_Decide

I think this is where Nintendo's Profits went into. We may see a freakin' Handheld Juggernaut.

LegatoSkyheart

This post makes a lot of sense. Nintendo have been profiting like crazy from the DS lines and the Wii, and it's certainly feasible that they've funded the technology to create one helluva handheld.

Of course, this poses the real question: How much will this Juggernaut cost?

i guess we'll wait and see, im just hoping this is below $200 (and it should be) unless it has a ton of other features that warrants a near 300 price tag (think internet browser, music, video apps etc)Microsoft1234

Meh... I buy game systems to play games. I'd rather not pay for any of that non-game-related junk.

utter nonsense.. if a handheld steals the show in the mind of fanboys its a sad day in gaming.. i expect it to be a bit closer to the gamecube or just a bit more powerful than the current gameboy..daveg1

So many things wrong with this post.

Handhelds, namely Nintendo's handhelds, are the most successful gaming platforms ever released. Any announcement concerning handhelds are always a huge deal. Have you never watched/been to a gaming expo?

The fact that you called the current handheld a "gameboy" goes to show you don't really know what you're talking about. There hasn't been a Gameboy as the current platform for years.

Like the TC said, to be able to create true 3D graphics, you must create two layers of graphics. That level of technology and that kind of power is currently only capable of the PS3 and 360 (and PC, of course.) Therefore, if this handheld is going to be capable of that kind of presentation, what does that tell you?

[QUOTE="daveg1"]utter nonsense.. if a handheld steals the show in the mind of fanboys its a sad day in gaming.. i expect it to be a bit closer to the gamecube or just a bit more powerful than the current gameboy..Khadaj32

So many things wrong with this post.

Handhelds, namely Nintendo's handhelds, are the most successful gaming platforms ever released. Any announcement concerning handhelds are always a huge deal. Have you never watched/been to a gaming expo?

The fact that you called the current handheld a "gameboy" goes to show you don't really know what you're talking about. There hasn't been a Gameboy as the current platform for years.

Like the TC said, to be able to create true 3D graphics, you must create two layers of graphics. That level of technology and that kind of power is currently only capable of the PS3 and 360 (and PC, of course.) Therefore, if this handheld is going to be capable of that kind of presentation, what does that tell you?

to answer your first comment let me start by saying who gives a monkeys how successful the nintendo handhels have been apart from kids bragging in forums?? gameboy gba gameboy advance same thing anyone could see what i mean lolz.. have you seen it running anything in 3d has anyone??? NOdaveg1

Yeah, only kids care about handhelds :lol: where have you been? the current Nintendo handheld is called DS not gameboy/gba/gameboy advance. Have you seen the air you're breathing right now? NO

[QUOTE="daveg1"]to answer your first comment let me start by saying who gives a monkeys how successful the nintendo handhels have been apart from kids bragging in forums?? gameboy gba gameboy advance same thing anyone could see what i mean lolz.. have you seen it running anything in 3d has anyone??? NObuwiset

Yeah, only kids care about handhelds :lol: where have you been? the current Nintendo handheld is called DS not gameboy/gba/gameboy advance. Have you seen the air you're breathing right now? NO

Engaging Personal Debate Mode....

[QUOTE="Sekeru"]

Wowronvalenciathat took a while for you to reply.I thought you were done but apparently you just don't get it.Yeah i know all that about mobile GPUS and so you agree they are underclocked undervolted desktop parts.And just because they are both a tilling archecture GPU doesnt mean they will perform the same transistor to transistor.How the hell you can argue that is beyond my understanding.And the new PowerVR GPUs have spent all the transitors to puer performance according to their newest press release.And do you know that the PowerVR GPU is multicore possible right?And again transistors don't equal performance.Never has never will.And yeah they haven't had a good track record but thats because of Driver problems on the Desktop/notebook front.Bad drivers can make a good GPU look like a 5 year old one.And yes AMD is trying to bring something to market that seems nice but hell Intels Sandy Bridge looks more impressive and they are mainly a CPU company.So again i don't know what your arguing about at this point but your again stating your opinion as fact which is dumb.So can we please get back on subject?Somehow i don't think you will......

ronvalencia

With GPUs, one can roughly guess performance based on transistor count e.g. ATI Radeon HD 4670's 514 million transistors gets beaten up by ATI Radeon HD 5870's 2150 million transistors i.e. more ALUs/FP units, more register datastorage, register instruction storage, more texture units, more ROPs, more cache/buffers/onchip and 'etc'.

PowerVR's multicore nature is not unique. i.e. ATI and NVIDIA GPUs are already "many-cores". It seems somebody needs computer science lesson 101.

Refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA

GPUs have a parallel "many-core" architecture, each core capable of running thousands of threads simultaneously - if an application is suited to this kind of an architecture, the GPU can offer large performance benefits. This approach of solving general purpose problems on GPUs is known as GPGPU.

Haven't you notice how ATI and NVIDIA scales their DX10.X GPUs from the low end to the top end? Btw. CUDA refers to NVIDIA Geforce 8 and above. ATI Stream is the alternative.

When handheld power envelope bias reduced, the best PowerVR IP based GPU is Intel GMA 500 (for netbook power envelope).

For netbook market, AMD Fusion Ontario murders Intel GMA 500(PowerVR) inperformance. AMD Fusion Ontario delivers entry level PC HD gaming experience. AMD Fusion Ontario is currently being sampled to ODM/OEMs. For Ontario's Aliens vs. Predator DirectX 11 (includes Tesselation hardware support) demo (in HD) refer tohttp://techreport.com/discussions.x/19017This is an actual livedemo not just some paper press release.

Lets see Intel Sandy Bridge beat that. i.e. showing a frame of Mass Effect 2 (basic render scene) and not disclosing the rendering resolution doesn't impress PC gamers.

AMD Fusion Ontario is what I define as close to the Xbox 360.Again, 3DS has to beat ATI Radeon HD 3300 IGP first before Xbox 360.

We are not even factoring AMD Fusion Llano for notebook power envelope i.e. 400 shader GPU. It makes any GPUs below ATI Radeon HD 5670 redundant.

You then have factor in ATI's next generation "Southern Islands" and "Northern Islands" GPU architectures.

Intel has a long history with 3D acceleration i.e. starting with Intel i860/i960(google it) i.e. 3D processors used in early 90s SGI workstations. I do hope you know the history of SGI. Intel tried re-enterdesktop GPU market with i740 and failed. Recently, they tried again with Intel Larrabee and failed i.e. on performance it's dead on arrival.

Oh and to test the transistor theory could you tell me how many transistors the 9600GT and the 2900XT have?And which one performs better?Yeah I thought so....

Like the TC said, to be able to create true 3D graphics, you must create two layers of graphics. That level of technology and that kind of power is currently only capable of the PS3 and 360 (and PC, of course.) Therefore, if this handheld is going to be capable of that kind of presentation, what does that tell you?

Khadaj32

[QUOTE="Khadaj32"]

[QUOTE="daveg1"]utter nonsense.. if a handheld steals the show in the mind of fanboys its a sad day in gaming.. i expect it to be a bit closer to the gamecube or just a bit more powerful than the current gameboy..daveg1

So many things wrong with this post.

Handhelds, namely Nintendo's handhelds, are the most successful gaming platforms ever released. Any announcement concerning handhelds are always a huge deal. Have you never watched/been to a gaming expo?

The fact that you called the current handheld a "gameboy" goes to show you don't really know what you're talking about. There hasn't been a Gameboy as the current platform for years.

Like the TC said, to be able to create true 3D graphics, you must create two layers of graphics. That level of technology and that kind of power is currently only capable of the PS3 and 360 (and PC, of course.) Therefore, if this handheld is going to be capable of that kind of presentation, what does that tell you?

Lol, I love dealing with the uninformed.Go do some research. First, look up the grand total of sales from all of Nintendo's handhelds. Next, cross reference that with the average age of their users and you'll find that the average age is early 20's. +1 for me.

We sure could see what you meant, and it's a joke, such as yourself.

You're kidding, right? First, it's called a '3DS.' Try and stay with me here.Next, Nintendo has announced that it will incorporate 3D technology. They aren't going to proclaim this then at E3 be all "We were only joking. Hey look, Zelda." We will see this technology first hand at the upcoming E3, do you seriously not pay attention to any news?

I was never really that interested about the 3DS, but after hearing this all I have to say is, "bring on E3" :)

[QUOTE="Khadaj32"]

Like the TC said, to be able to create true 3D graphics, you must create two layers of graphics. That level of technology and that kind of power is currently only capable of the PS3 and 360 (and PC, of course.) Therefore, if this handheld is going to be capable of that kind of presentation, what does that tell you?

HuusAsking

I have no idea about any of that, but I'm positive that Nintendo, a company that hosts quality products especially in their handheld division, aren't going to go next-gen with something half-assed. We'll find out shortly, in any case.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]

[QUOTE="Khadaj32"]

Like the TC said, to be able to create true 3D graphics, you must create two layers of graphics. That level of technology and that kind of power is currently only capable of the PS3 and 360 (and PC, of course.) Therefore, if this handheld is going to be capable of that kind of presentation, what does that tell you?

Khadaj32

I have no idea about any of that, but I'm positive that Nintendo, a company that hosts quality products especially in their handheld division, aren't going to go next-gen with something half-assed. We'll find out shortly, in any case.

That sounds very far fetched I would believe it when they show it at e3.

Kind of like how the original DS is suppose to be stronger than a N64 and not a single game has looked better than any of the original N64 games? Yeah this is BS. Probably slightly better than PSP or close to Gamecube.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

Engaging Personal Debate Mode....

[QUOTE="Sekeru"]

Wowronvalenciathat took a while for you to reply.I thought you were done but apparently you just don't get it.Yeah i know all that about mobile GPUS and so you agree they are underclocked undervolted desktop parts.And just because they are both a tilling archecture GPU doesnt mean they will perform the same transistor to transistor.How the hell you can argue that is beyond my understanding.And the new PowerVR GPUs have spent all the transitors to puer performance according to their newest press release.And do you know that the PowerVR GPU is multicore possible right?And again transistors don't equal performance.Never has never will.And yeah they haven't had a good track record but thats because of Driver problems on the Desktop/notebook front.Bad drivers can make a good GPU look like a 5 year old one.And yes AMD is trying to bring something to market that seems nice but hell Intels Sandy Bridge looks more impressive and they are mainly a CPU company.So again i don't know what your arguing about at this point but your again stating your opinion as fact which is dumb.So can we please get back on subject?Somehow i don't think you will......

Sekeru

With GPUs, one can roughly guess performance based on transistor count e.g. ATI Radeon HD 4670's 514 million transistors gets beaten up by ATI Radeon HD 5870's 2150 million transistors i.e. more ALUs/FP units, more register datastorage, register instruction storage, more texture units, more ROPs, more cache/buffers/onchip and 'etc'.

PowerVR's multicore nature is not unique. i.e. ATI and NVIDIA GPUs are already "many-cores". It seems somebody needs computer science lesson 101.

Refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA

GPUs have a parallel "many-core" architecture, each core capable of running thousands of threads simultaneously - if an application is suited to this kind of an architecture, the GPU can offer large performance benefits. This approach of solving general purpose problems on GPUs is known as GPGPU.

Haven't you notice how ATI and NVIDIA scales their DX10.X GPUs from the low end to the top end? Btw. CUDA refers to NVIDIA Geforce 8 and above. ATI Stream is the alternative.

When handheld power envelope bias reduced, the best PowerVR IP based GPU is Intel GMA 500 (for netbook power envelope).

For netbook market, AMD Fusion Ontario murders Intel GMA 500(PowerVR) inperformance. AMD Fusion Ontario delivers entry level PC HD gaming experience. AMD Fusion Ontario is currently being sampled to ODM/OEMs. For Ontario's Aliens vs. Predator DirectX 11 (includes Tesselation hardware support) demo (in HD) refer tohttp://techreport.com/discussions.x/19017This is an actual livedemo not just some paper press release.

Lets see Intel Sandy Bridge beat that. i.e. showing a frame of Mass Effect 2 (basic render scene) and not disclosing the rendering resolution doesn't impress PC gamers.

AMD Fusion Ontario is what I define as close to the Xbox 360.Again, 3DS has to beat ATI Radeon HD 3300 IGP first before Xbox 360.

We are not even factoring AMD Fusion Llano for notebook power envelope i.e. 400 shader GPU. It makes any GPUs below ATI Radeon HD 5670 redundant.

You then have factor in ATI's next generation "Southern Islands" and "Northern Islands" GPU architectures.

Intel has a long history with 3D acceleration i.e. starting with Intel i860/i960(google it) i.e. 3D processors used in early 90s SGI workstations. I do hope you know the history of SGI. Intel tried re-enterdesktop GPU market with i740 and failed. Recently, they tried again with Intel Larrabee and failed i.e. on performance it's dead on arrival.

Oh and to test the transistor theory could you tell me how many transistors the 9600GT and the 2900XT have?And which one performs better?Yeah I thought so....

You are referring to "multi-core" as multiple chip packages. This term is "Multiple Chip Module" or MCM.

From TC, the topic is

How powerful is the 3DS?
Nintendo has not revealed any specs for the 3DS system, but expect it to well surpass the Nintendo DS in visual and processor capabilities. To provide stereoscopic 3D effects the system must have the ability to render each game field twice, one for each of the player's eyes, a technique that will require significant horsepower to produce.

Several developers that have experienced 3DS in its current form have reported, off the record, that it has processing capabilities that far exceed the Nintendo Wii and bring the device with abilities that are close to HD consoles such as PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.

The question is how close is 3DS to the Xbox 360 or PS3. Again, before making comparsion with the Xbox 360 or PS3, 3DS has to beat the latest 7 watts ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5430.

As for "cores", if you look at Radeon HD 5870 block diagram, you can see two 800 shader blocks i.e. it's fundamentally two Radeon HD 5770 with a common "front end". AMD can scale this design i.e. notice black input line and corresponding "processor cluster" or "SIMD Core"?

Notice "SIMD Core". Low end Radeon HD 5000s has less"SIMD Cores". This block diagram is for Radeon HD 5830 i.e. count the SIMD cores against Radeon HD 5870s.

To define "multi-core" refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-core_processor

Some variation exists in the usage of the terms multi-core and dual-core. Most commonly they refer to some sort of central processing unit (CPU), but are sometimes also applied to digital signal processors (DSP) and system-on-a-chip (SoC). Additionally, some[who?] use these terms to refer only to multi-core microprocessors that are manufactured on the same integrated circuit die. These people generally refer to separate microprocessor dies in the same package by another name, such as multi-chip module. This article uses both the terms "multi-core" and "dual-core" to reference microelectronic CPUs manufactured on the same integrated circuit, unless otherwise noted.

In contrast to multi-core systems, the term multi-CPU refers to multiple physically separate processing-units (which often contain special circuitry to facilitate communication between each other).

The terms many-core and massively multi-core sometimes occur to describe multi-core architectures with an especially high number of cores (tens or hundreds).

Are you suggesting PowerVR do something like 3DFX Voodoo 6000?

Both NV and ATI has thier "Geforce FX" moments e.g. 2900XT(R600) doesn't have full MSAA hardware i.e. emulated via shaders. 2900XT quickly replaced by Radeon HD 3870 e.g. ATI killed 2900's ringbus design, added hardware MSAA. The person who architected 2900XT's ringbus is now at Intel Larrabee.

ATI Radeon HD 4870(RV770) has 956 million transistors while Radeon HD 4670(RV730) has 514 million transistors. We all know, RV770 kills RV730 in performance. ATI Radeon HD 4870 has 2.5 Megabyte register data storage. Register data storage is fastest known data storage technologyi.e. faster then cache or CELL's local memory.

All I'm saying is

1) Still better be an advancement in ALL aspects to the DS

2) That means not overheating from all this mumbo jumbo you guys are going on about. My 360 overheating is bad enough a handheld better not have that problem.

[QUOTE="Sekeru"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"]

With GPUs, one can roughly guess performance based on transistor count e.g. ATI Radeon HD 4670's 514 million transistors gets beaten up by ATI Radeon HD 5870's 2150 million transistors i.e. more ALUs/FP units, more register datastorage, register instruction storage, more texture units, more ROPs, more cache/buffers/onchip and 'etc'.

PowerVR's multicore nature is not unique. i.e. ATI and NVIDIA GPUs are already "many-cores". It seems somebody needs computer science lesson 101.

Refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA

GPUs have a parallel "many-core" architecture, each core capable of running thousands of threads simultaneously - if an application is suited to this kind of an architecture, the GPU can offer large performance benefits. This approach of solving general purpose problems on GPUs is known as GPGPU.

Haven't you notice how ATI and NVIDIA scales their DX10.X GPUs from the low end to the top end? Btw. CUDA refers to NVIDIA Geforce 8 and above. ATI Stream is the alternative.

When handheld power envelope bias reduced, the best PowerVR IP based GPU is Intel GMA 500 (for netbook power envelope).

For netbook market, AMD Fusion Ontario murders Intel GMA 500(PowerVR) inperformance. AMD Fusion Ontario delivers entry level PC HD gaming experience. AMD Fusion Ontario is currently being sampled to ODM/OEMs. For Ontario's Aliens vs. Predator DirectX 11 (includes Tesselation hardware support) demo (in HD) refer tohttp://techreport.com/discussions.x/19017This is an actual livedemo not just some paper press release.

Lets see Intel Sandy Bridge beat that. i.e. showing a frame of Mass Effect 2 (basic render scene) and not disclosing the rendering resolution doesn't impress PC gamers.

AMD Fusion Ontario is what I define as close to the Xbox 360.Again, 3DS has to beat ATI Radeon HD 3300 IGP first before Xbox 360.

We are not even factoring AMD Fusion Llano for notebook power envelope i.e. 400 shader GPU. It makes any GPUs below ATI Radeon HD 5670 redundant.

You then have factor in ATI's next generation "Southern Islands" and "Northern Islands" GPU architectures.

Intel has a long history with 3D acceleration i.e. starting with Intel i860/i960(google it) i.e. 3D processors used in early 90s SGI workstations. I do hope you know the history of SGI. Intel tried re-enterdesktop GPU market with i740 and failed. Recently, they tried again with Intel Larrabee and failed i.e. on performance it's dead on arrival.

ronvalencia

Oh and to test the transistor theory could you tell me how many transistors the 9600GT and the 2900XT have?And which one performs better?Yeah I thought so....

You are referring to "multi-core" as multiple chip packages. This term is "Multiple Chip Module" or MCM.

From TC, the topic is

How powerful is the 3DS?
Nintendo has not revealed any specs for the 3DS system, but expect it to well surpass the Nintendo DS in visual and processor capabilities. To provide stereoscopic 3D effects the system must have the ability to render each game field twice, one for each of the player's eyes, a technique that will require significant horsepower to produce.

Several developers that have experienced 3DS in its current form have reported, off the record, that it has processing capabilities that far exceed the Nintendo Wii and bring the device with abilities that are close to HD consoles such as PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360.

The question is how close is 3DS to the Xbox 360 or PS3. Again, before making comparsion with the Xbox 360 or PS3, 3DS has to beat the latest 7 watts ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5430.

As for "cores", if you look at Radeon HD 5870 block diagram, you can see two 800 shader blocks i.e. it's fundamentally two Radeon HD 5770 with a common "front end". AMD can scale this design i.e. notice black input line and corresponding "processor cluster" or "SIMD Core"?

Notice "SIMD Core". Low end Radeon HD 5000s has less"SIMD Cores". This block diagram is for Radeon HD 5830 i.e. count the SIMD cores against Radeon HD 5870s.

To define "multi-core" refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-core_processor

Some variation exists in the usage of the terms multi-core and dual-core. Most commonly they refer to some sort of central processing unit (CPU), but are sometimes also applied to digital signal processors (DSP) and system-on-a-chip (SoC). Additionally, some[who?] use these terms to refer only to multi-core microprocessors that are manufactured on the same integrated circuit die. These people generally refer to separate microprocessor dies in the same package by another name, such as multi-chip module. This article uses both the terms "multi-core" and "dual-core" to reference microelectronic CPUs manufactured on the same integrated circuit, unless otherwise noted.

In contrast to multi-core systems, the term multi-CPU refers to multiple physically separate processing-units (which often contain special circuitry to facilitate communication between each other).

The terms many-core and massively multi-core sometimes occur to describe multi-core architectures with an especially high number of cores (tens or hundreds).

Are you suggesting PowerVR do something like 3DFX Voodoo 6000?

Both NV and ATI has thier "Geforce FX" moments e.g. 2900XT(R600) doesn't have full MSAA hardware i.e. emulated via shaders. 2900XT quickly replaced by Radeon HD 3870 e.g. ATI killed 2900's ringbus design, added hardware MSAA. The person who architected 2900XT's ringbus is now at Intel Larrabee.

ATI Radeon HD 4870(RV770) has 956 million transistors while Radeon HD 4670(RV730) has 514 million transistors. We all know, RV770 kills RV730 in performance. ATI Radeon HD 4870 has 2.5 Megabyte register data storage. Register data storage is fastest known data storage technologyi.e. faster then cache or CELL's local memory.

haha dude i already know all of that.I can read tech websites to;).But the actual press release from PowerVR mentions Multiproccesor so as far as that sounds to me its not multicore like chips are with shader units today but in that it actually has multiple graphics cores with each having its on set of shader cores.Not that I'm saying it absolutely means that but it sure does sound like it.And so now your arguing that the chip can performe differently depending on how its made?No duh :lol: Dude i can't argue with you anymore if you really think more transistors scales with performance of chips of different architecture and even across different manufacturers :lol: Man you've made my day.Thanks:D