Nintendo blew it with SSBB online mode

hey whats ur 16 diggit wii code number:roll:

what was ninteno thinking$$$???

munsoned

I have to agree with that. the codes....nobody who is a real gamer likes the codes. end of story.

what are you going to do? tell your teammate to edgegaurd in a rare team battle? its too fast to do any real strategising.

laughingman42

1. Team battles are only as rare as the players make them.

2. It's not too fast for strategy, that's naive imho. You don't think teams can lure you in with a feint attack? You don't think teams can dedicate specific "combos" for certain situations/environments?

Seriously talking with some of you makes me feel like we're not even talking about the same franchise. *shakes head*

[QUOTE="-RPGamer-"]

[QUOTE="DSgamer64"]The only games I would ever want to communicate with people are games that require strategyand team work to winlike RTS's, Unreal Tournament, GRAW, Rainbow6 Vegas or MMORPG's like Guild Wars and World of WarCraft. I do not care about leader boards, if Nintendo wants to create a system then they should just have the leader boards on the internet, instead of having them in the game, that just seems retarded and a waste of server space and bandwidth to me. The current online games for the Wii use the Mii avatar system as a method of storing your online record information, I have a record for wins and losses in Strikers, that is all I really care about and there will no doubt be a match making system in Smash Bros that allows me to play against players with similar records to mine, just like in Strikers, Nintendo would be stupid not to do that.laughingman42

And SSBB isn't going to be a game that would benefit from strategy or teamwork?

what are you going to do? tell your teammate to edgegaurd in a rare team battle? its too fast to do any real strategising.

Let us know when you're ready to think out of the box. Just because YOU can't think of any applications right now (because your fanboyism-fueled allegiance towards this game and Nintendo) doesn't mean the rest of us can't think of a million reasons why it would be fun.

Have you ever been to a Melee party? Do people sit there in silence, or do they talk to each other? Right.

Now extrapolate those same conversations and apply them liberally across millions of gamers across the world.

THAT is what Brawl could have been online...and even more.

Oh, look:

more of teh fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2pP3vErL8

nothing wrong with one game being slower than the other, anyway. each game is optimized to a certain speed, given the buttons and purpose for the feel of combat.

BTW, do people count frames in SSB?

Dreams-Visions

Some, NoC was known for that.

Where was teh fast?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfvxAACOtg

oh...there it is. on DoA4.

Good try, though. The ante has been raised. :D

Dreams-Visions

Dude, the video I showed only had two players at a time. The video you showed was a tag team battle. Teh cheating? lol

But in the video I showed was fast paced. If you know how to play SSB then you would see how. Wave dashing in itself can seriously change the battle if you dont know how to confront it.

Where was teh fast?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfvxAACOtg

oh...there it is. on DoA4.

Good try, though. The ante has been raised. :D

Dreams-Visions

Those two videos clearly show that Melee was faster paced.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=xiOhUSSY-4o

That one too

Oh, look:

more of teh fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2pP3vErL8

nothing wrong with one game being slower than the other, anyway. each game is optimized to a certain speed, given the buttons and purpose for the feel of combat.

BTW, do people count frames in SSB?

Dreams-Visions

Maybe I should be cheap and show a fight in lighting mode. O.o

Where was teh fast?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfvxAACOtg

oh...there it is. on DoA4.

Good try, though. The ante has been raised. :D

Dreams-Visions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZDRzPKGWFQ&mode=related&search=

This is stupidly fast if you know what to look for.

not to mention its done almost entirely done off of reflexes and not memorized combos.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Where was teh fast?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfvxAACOtg

oh...there it is. on DoA4.

Good try, though. The ante has been raised. :D

MellowMight

Dude, the video I showed only had two players at a time. The video you showed was a tag team battle. Teh cheating? lol

But in the video I showed was fast paced. If you know how to play SSB then you would see how. Wave dashing in itself can seriously change the battle if you dont know how to confront it.

I never said SSBM was slow. I just said DoA was faster. Take that same speed you see in DoA, add 400 or so moves per character, multiple approaches to defense (parrying, blocking, countering) along with 6 buttons for attacks, combos and throws, and I think it's fair to say DoA is faster. At least, that's been my experience with the 2 games.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Where was teh fast?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfvxAACOtg

oh...there it is. on DoA4.

Good try, though. The ante has been raised. :D

Kaze_no_Mirai

Those two videos clearly show that Melee was faster paced.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=xiOhUSSY-4o

That one too

I have to disagree. yes, it is faster paced, but I don't think it is faster. let me try to explain:

I think of speed as a combination of the pace of the on-screen characters + the speed with which you have to think to get the job done. As such, the speed of the characters are only part of the equation.

Add on the hundreds of moves and throws in DoA + the combos + you defensive style + the on-screen pace = a faster game to the player.

Something like Gross income vs. net income.

And again, I'm not saying that both games aren't fast...I just think DoA is faster. I don't know how else to say it.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Where was teh fast?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfvxAACOtg

oh...there it is. on DoA4.

Good try, though. The ante has been raised. :D

laughingman42

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZDRzPKGWFQ&mode=related&search=

This is stupidly fast if you know what to look for.

not to mention its done almost entirely done off of reflexes and not memorized combos.

and your last sentence is almost entirely my point. speed done off reflexes and not strategy, planning, approach, and defensive discipline doesn't mean as much to me as having to maintain a high level of speed while keeping all of those things right at the forefront of your mind.

I'm not knocking Brawl or Melee. I just think that in the end, the preceived speed coming from having to do so much thinking while moving fast can be higher on DoA4.

Again, gross income vs. net income. I don't know how to really explain it. It's just my experience with the 2 games. It is what it is.

I have to disagree. yes, it is faster paced, but I don't think it is faster. let me try to explain:

I think of speed as a combination of the pace of the on-screen characters + the speed with which you have to think to get the job done. As such, the speed of the characters are only part of the equation.

Add on the hundreds of moves and throws in DoA + the combos + you defensive style + the on-screen pace = a faster game to the player.

Something like Gross income vs. net income.

And again, I'm not saying that both games aren't fast...I just think DoA is faster. I don't know how else to say it.

Dreams-Visions

There are A LOT of things to consider in Melee when playing as well. It's not just a button masher or random buttons. There are techinques, ****, tactics, timing etc.

For example, my character is Sheik. He's fast, but very weak. Low % can knock her out easily, but her aerial attacks really pack a punch. Obviously its better to use aerial attacks with him. You have to time the attacks properly or they will miss or be dodged, I know its not a feature exclusive to Melee.. Have you seen the stages in Melee? There are ice stages, open stages, floating ballooms, race tracks. Very diverse terrain. Each character has different attacks, thus requiring different strategies; ie: bowser is really strong but slow.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Oh, look:

more of teh fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2pP3vErL8

nothing wrong with one game being slower than the other, anyway. each game is optimized to a certain speed, given the buttons and purpose for the feel of combat.

BTW, do people count frames in SSB?

MellowMight

Maybe I should be cheap and show a fight in lighting mode. O.o

Tag is a standard mode in DoA4. It's my preferred method of play. You asked me to show you the speed, and I showed you the speed.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

I have to disagree. yes, it is faster paced, but I don't think it is faster. let me try to explain:

I think of speed as a combination of the pace of the on-screen characters + the speed with which you have to think to get the job done. As such, the speed of the characters are only part of the equation.

Add on the hundreds of moves and throws in DoA + the combos + you defensive style + the on-screen pace = a faster game to the player.

Something like Gross income vs. net income.

And again, I'm not saying that both games aren't fast...I just think DoA is faster. I don't know how else to say it.

Kaze_no_Mirai

There are A LOT of things to consider in Melee when playing as well. It's not just a button masher or random buttons. There are techinques, ****, tactics, timing etc.

For example, my character is Sheik. He's fast, but very weak. Low % can knock her out easily, but her aerial attacks really pack a punch. Obviously its better to use aerial attacks with him. You have to time the attacks properly or they will miss or be dodged, I know its not a feature exclusive to Melee.. Have you seen the stages in Melee? There are ice stages, open stages, floating ballooms, race tracks. Very diverse terrain. Each character has different attacks, thus requiring different strategies; ie: bowser is really strong but slow.

I didn't say it was a button-masher, but it's certainly not a 500+ moves-per-person fighter either. It is what it is...and it is good, but very different.

This conversation isn't going well. Maybe I'm not explaining it well. Maybe people haven't spent meaningful time with both games. Idunno. I think I'm gonna cut out, because we're just going to go in circles and it's too late at night for that.

[QUOTE="MellowMight"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Oh, look:

more of teh fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2pP3vErL8

nothing wrong with one game being slower than the other, anyway. each game is optimized to a certain speed, given the buttons and purpose for the feel of combat.

BTW, do people count frames in SSB?

Dreams-Visions

Maybe I should be cheap and show a fight in lighting mode. O.o

Tag is a standard mode in DoA4. It's my preferred method of play. You asked me to show you the speed, and I showed you the speed.

Yeah, but I still say SSB is faster. I showed you a video with Link but the video with Fox is way faster. But hey, thats just me.

I didn't say it was a button-masher. This conversation isn't going well. Maybe I'm not explaining it well. Maybe people haven't spent meaningful time with both games. Idunno. I think I'm gonna cut out, because we're just going to go in circles and it's too late at night for that.

Dreams-Visions

All I said was that Melee has all that it takes (according to your logic) to be a "fast" game and not only a "fast paced" game.

Characters? Check

Different moves? Check

Combos? Check

Defensive/playing style? Check

On screen pace? Check

EDIT -1

You edited your post? So now the DOA characters have 500 unique moves? :| Or they need hundreds of moves to be good? Or maybe you just didn't explain it right or I didn't understand that. :?

EDIT -2

Forget about it. :P Time to move on

[QUOTE="laughingman42"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Where was teh fast?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfvxAACOtg

oh...there it is. on DoA4.

Good try, though. The ante has been raised. :D

Dreams-Visions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZDRzPKGWFQ&mode=related&search=

This is stupidly fast if you know what to look for.

not to mention its done almost entirely done off of reflexes and not memorized combos.

and your last sentence is almost entirely my point. speed done off reflexes and not strategy, planning, approach, and defensive discipline doesn't mean as much to me as having to maintain a high level of speed while keeping all of those things right at the forefront of your mind.

I'm not knocking Brawl or Melee. I just think that in the end, the preceived speed coming from having to do so much thinking while moving fast can be higher on DoA4.

Again, gross income vs. net income. I don't know how to really explain it. It's just my experience with the 2 games. It is what it is.

for my experience for mashing out combos and reacting to other peoples combos in 3D fighters (mostly in tekken and SC both of which I'm pretty good at) vs smash's styl e of play I think smash's play is harder to keep up with, but thats just my opinion.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="MellowMight"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

Oh, look:

more of teh fast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2pP3vErL8

nothing wrong with one game being slower than the other, anyway. each game is optimized to a certain speed, given the buttons and purpose for the feel of combat.

BTW, do people count frames in SSB?

MellowMight

Maybe I should be cheap and show a fight in lighting mode. O.o

Tag is a standard mode in DoA4. It's my preferred method of play. You asked me to show you the speed, and I showed you the speed.

Yeah, but I still say SSB is faster. I showed you a video with Link but the video with Fox is way faster. But hey, thats just me.

Cool beans. let's move on.

Cool beans. let's move on.

Dreams-Visions

Im going to bed anyway.

Outies.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]

I didn't say it was a button-masher. This conversation isn't going well. Maybe I'm not explaining it well. Maybe people haven't spent meaningful time with both games. Idunno. I think I'm gonna cut out, because we're just going to go in circles and it's too late at night for that.

Kaze_no_Mirai

All I said was that Melee has all that it takes (according to your logic) to be a "fast" game and not only a "fast paced" game.

Characters? Check

Different moves? Check

Combos? Check

Defensive/playing style? Check

On screen pace? Check

1.) I never said it wasn't a fast game. So that you know this is why I'm dropping this conversation with you.

2.) I don't think it can be well argued that all of those "checks" you're applying so liberally stack up when compared to other fighting games (SC, Tekken, DoA, VF). But I'll certainly concede on-screen pace. That's about the only one, though.

3.) No, I didn't say it had to have a ton of moves to be "good". I was trying to say that the deeper the design and approach to moves, the more you have to think about them...the more you have to be decisive about which of the hundreds of moves you will use...the more challenging it can be. Add good pace and it feels almost too fast at times. But again, it's probably too late at night for all of this. ;)

have a good one.