no game will ever be better than FFX

[QUOTE="tidus222"]

 

yeah xenogears had the best story ever but it didnt feel like hte complete package for me.

it had very lackluster gameplay, and disc 2 was a mess.

the story is basically the only reason to paly it. but i must admit the story is incredible very MATURE themes beats any movie ever made easily

AfterShafter

[QUOTE="tidus222"]

incredible story (should have won an oscar)

lots of gameplay (i put like 150 hours into this game cause there was so much to do and cutomizing the sphere grid was fun)

soundtrack (

best soundtrack ever, i bought the 4 disc collectors edition FFX soundtrack and love it.)

graphics (at the time they were amazing and still hold up quite well the artsyle is very diverse and we see all kinds of landscapes)

 

overall = no game can match the overall level of enjoyment I and many others had from FFX cause it was the complete package. great story, great soundtrack, great gameplay, lots of replay, great graphics. its liek palying through an oscar winning movie. the game is that GOOD

superkoolstud

 FFX best?!?! Far from it. FFIV-FFVIII were tons better. Not to mention many many Rpgs are better then FFX. Xenogears, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana 2&3, Earthbound, Kingdom Hearts, Star Ocean, Xenosaga 1&3, Chronocross, Tales of Phantasia, Tales of Symphonia, Illusion of Gaia, Golden Sun 1&2. I could go on and on. As a JRPG FFX was average, I mean sure I loved how most of the lines had VO, Blitz ball was an awesome minigame, and Auron speaks for himself, but you can't overlook the fact that the grid system sucked. Tidus was annoying as hell, Soundtrack wasn't very good compared to the other FF Soundtracks, and the story was meh.

I loved FF7-9, imo the best ones that were 3D were those 3 games, FF12 is decent enough, and 1-3 were phenominal back in the day. I quite like FF3 on the DS though, that was a solid game and lots of fun. The remakes on the GBA were a bit crap (well 4-6 were imo), Tactics Advanced was amazing, Dawn of Souls: FF 1 & 2 was great as well. My favourite RPG's from last gen were Tales of Symphonia (GC), Skies of Arcadia: Legends, Baiten Kaitos, Xenosaga Episode 3, Phantasy Star Universe (actually its a meh game for most people but its enjoyable) and the Golden Sun games. There were far too many RPG's that I played last gen that I enjoyed though, but FFX and X-2 were not in that category.

plz.

KOTOR was better.

The remakes on the GBA were a bit crap (well 4-6 were imo)DSgamer64

[QUOTE="DSgamer64"]The remakes on the GBA were a bit crap (well 4-6 were imo)Jandurin

Frame rate issues and some dialog changes. 

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="DSgamer64"]The remakes on the GBA were a bit crap (well 4-6 were imo)LongshotX2

Frame rate issues and some dialog changes. 

Well, as long as there aren't hellish load  times.

[QUOTE="DireToad"]This is the FF quality line everyone should follow :P

VI > VII > VIII > XII > IV > IX > V > X > II > I > III > XI > X-2SeanBond

As soon as I read you had VI first, and VII second, I was behind you all the way. These kids who started playing Final Fantasy with the PS2 don't know how much they missed out on...

Also, while Xenogears was a flawed RPG (cutscenes took too long, sometimes you had to sit through 20 minutes of them to get to a hard boss fight, lose, and watch it all over again), it was an incredibly interesting one, in my opinion. And to the guy who called it a 60 hour Neon Genesis Evangelion game (not too far from the truth): That would sell me, any day of the week. ;)

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="DSgamer64"]The remakes on the GBA were a bit crap (well 4-6 were imo)LongshotX2

Frame rate issues and some dialog changes.

Which is what emulators are for.

Edit: Just came to me, but Lunar Silver Star Story is a great example. It had many versions, I liked the PS version best, however when I bought and played the GBA version the story and game overall was so horribly butchered, I stopped playing. 

This is the FF quality line everyone should follow :P

VI > VII > VIII > XII > IV > IX > V > X > II > I > III > XI > X-2DireToad

I would have put it this way:

7 > 9 > 8 > 6 > 12 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 10 > 10-2 > 11

The original 3 were great games, rivaled at the time by Dragon Quest 1-3. Actually when Square remade Dragon Quest 1 & 2 together for the Gameboy/Colour, I was excited and loved those two games in one, then they totally redid DQ 3 for the GBC and that game was amazing as well. I really would put the first 3 Dragon Quest games ahead of Final Fantasy 1-3 as being the better early RPG's.

[QUOTE="TheCrazed420"][QUOTE="Redmoonxl2"][QUOTE="AfterShafter"][QUOTE="tidus222"]

 

yeah xenogears had the best story ever but it didnt feel like hte complete package for me.

it had very lackluster gameplay, and disc 2 was a mess.

the story is basically the only reason to paly it. but i must admit the story is incredible very MATURE themes beats any movie ever made easily

Redmoonxl2

Xenogears was nothing more than a more convoluted Neon Genesis Evangelion stretched 60 hours long.

That's being a bit harsh. I thought Xenogears was overall a great rpg.

I look at it this way: At least it's not Xenosaga. 

I'll drink to that. Oh yeah, I'm at work. Ah, screw it...

[QUOTE="DireToad"]This is the FF quality line everyone should follow :P

VI > VII > VIII > XII > IV > IX > V > X > II > I > III > XI > X-2DSgamer64

I would have put it this way:

7 > 9 > 8 > 6 > 12 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 10 > 10-2 > 11

7, 8 and 9 over 6?!

Credibility = Zero. 

[QUOTE="LongshotX2"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="DSgamer64"]The remakes on the GBA were a bit crap (well 4-6 were imo)Jandurin

Frame rate issues and some dialog changes. 

Well, as long as there aren't hellish load  times.

In FF4, the one problem I really hated was that you really dont get much direction at the start of the game, which was stupid cause I wound up going out to level up my characters and even if I went to the nearest cave, I would instantly get killed by monsters that were like 10 levels higher then my party. Plus the dialogue was a problem and frame rates were crap.

[QUOTE="DSgamer64"]

[QUOTE="DireToad"]This is the FF quality line everyone should follow :P

VI > VII > VIII > XII > IV > IX > V > X > II > I > III > XI > X-2Redmoonxl2

I would have put it this way:

7 > 9 > 8 > 6 > 12 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5 > 10 > 10-2 > 11

7, 8 and 9 over 6?!

Credibility = Zero. 

I didnt get all the way through 6 when I had played it so I unfortunately put it lower, however it was a great game.

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"] I can't think of a single video game that competes with current fiction in terms of quality Jandurin

Planescape: Torment does.

I almost agree with you on this.  Planescape is another good example of a game that cries out "whaaat?  when could video games do this?"

Perhaps my first statement was a little too strong: we might be able to count a handful, at best, of games that can compete with mediocre modern fiction in terms of quality and depth.   But even the masterpeices of fiction gaming don't approach some of the better work in fiction and fantasy.

Tales of Symphonia > FFX

now there's a game with bad voice acting.

I put 700 hours into ToS 

supermechakirby

now there's a game with bad voice acting. 

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="LongshotX2"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="DSgamer64"]The remakes on the GBA were a bit crap (well 4-6 were imo)DSgamer64

Frame rate issues and some dialog changes.

Well, as long as there aren't hellish load times.

In FF4, the one problem I really hated was that you really dont get much direction at the start of the game, which was stupid cause I wound up going out to level up my characters and even if I went to the nearest cave, I would instantly get killed by monsters that were like 10 levels higher then my party. Plus the dialogue was a problem and frame rates were crap.

Alot of early RPGs gave no direction unless you talked to every single towns person, which would either A)You get an idea of where to go next or B) set off an event that furthers the story. 

In FF4, the one problem I really hated was that you really dont get much direction at the start of the game, which was stupid cause I wound up going out to level up my characters and even if I went to the nearest cave, I would instantly get killed by monsters that were like 10 levels higher then my party. Plus the dialogue was a problem and frame rates were crap.

DSgamer64

You obviously haven't played FFIV. 

Seriously all this ppl should stop being fanboys and saying that one is a noob if you pick a recent FF over a ''classic'' one, just because the games are classic doesn't mean they are better, I can't get myself through old (pre VI) FFs without getting bored, and you all act as if those are by default better.

It's just like the FF VII fanboys who are hating on FF XII because it's different.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"] I can't think of a single video game that competes with current fiction in terms of quality FoamingPanda

Planescape: Torment does.

I almost agree with you on this.  Planescape is another good example of a game that cries out "whaaat?  when could video games do this?"

Perhaps my first statement was a little too strong: we might be able to count a handful, at best, of games that can compete with mediocre modern fiction in terms of quality and depth.   But even the masterpeices of fiction gaming don't approach some of the better work in fiction and fantasy.

Seriously, some games reach mediocre fiction novel.  No game reaches/competes with good Fantasy/Sci Fi (in terms of story, entertainment value is another thing entirely).

I didnt get all the way through 6 when I had played it so I unfortunately put it lower, however it was a great game.

DSgamer64

[QUOTE="SeanBond"]

[QUOTE="DireToad"]This is the FF quality line everyone should follow :P

VI > VII > VIII > XII > IV > IX > V > X > II > I > III > XI > X-2Kook18

As soon as I read you had VI first, and VII second, I was behind you all the way. These kids who started playing Final Fantasy with the PS2 don't know how much they missed out on...

Also, while Xenogears was a flawed RPG (cutscenes took too long, sometimes you had to sit through 20 minutes of them to get to a hard boss fight, lose, and watch it all over again), it was an incredibly interesting one, in my opinion. And to the guy who called it a 60 hour Neon Genesis Evangelion game (not too far from the truth): That would sell me, any day of the week. ;)

Final Fantasy XI and Final Fantsy X are my two fave Final Fantasys. I would think X is better though. FFX has the best soundtrack out of any RPG...Final Fantasy VI comes in a close second. Final Fantasy XI is just very addictive and too complex for some. People say it sucks because it's a MMO. Personally, I think it's the best MMO out there.  

Never played Planetscape Torment.

Is it like Fallout? 

Never played Planetscape Torment.

Is it like Fallout?

LongshotX2

Planescape = Baldur's Gate +++. 

[QUOTE="Shu76"][QUOTE="snyper1982"][QUOTE="tidus222"]

incredible story (should have won an oscar)

lots of gameplay (i put like 150 hours into this game cause there was so much to do and cutomizing the sphere grid was fun)

soundtrack (best soundtrack ever, i bought the 4 disc collectors edition FFX soundtrack and love it.)

graphics (at the time they were amazing and still hold up quite well the artsyle is very diverse and we see all kinds of landscapes)

 

overall = no game can match the overall level of enjoyment I and many others had from FFX cause it was the complete package. great story, great soundtrack, great gameplay, lots of replay, great graphics. its liek palying through an oscar winning movie. the game is that GOOD

snyper1982

FF VII is much better IMHO.

ummm...no.

Wow. Are you seriously telling me my opinion right now?

ummm...Yup!  

Never played Planetscape Torment.

Is it like Fallout?

LongshotX2

If fallout was a +3 longsword, planescape would be a +5 vorpal greatsword.  

...ya, FFX is arguably the best Final Fantasy ever made. The music was fantastic. One of the best soundtracks out of any other video game. [QUOTE="Kook18"][QUOTE="SeanBond"]

[QUOTE="DireToad"]This is the FF quality line everyone should follow :P

VI > VII > VIII > XII > IV > IX > V > X > II > I > III > XI > X-2majadamus

As soon as I read you had VI first, and VII second, I was behind you all the way. These kids who started playing Final Fantasy with the PS2 don't know how much they missed out on...

Also, while Xenogears was a flawed RPG (cutscenes took too long, sometimes you had to sit through 20 minutes of them to get to a hard boss fight, lose, and watch it all over again), it was an incredibly interesting one, in my opinion. And to the guy who called it a 60 hour Neon Genesis Evangelion game (not too far from the truth): That would sell me, any day of the week. ;)

Final Fantasy XI and Final Fantsy X are my two fave Final Fantasys. I would think X is better though. FFX has the best soundtrack out of any RPG...Final Fantasy VI comes in a close second. Final Fantasy XI is just very addictive and too complex for some. People say it sucks because it's a MMO. Personally, I think it's the best MMO out there.

Points to GeOW avatar.superkoolstud

Xenogears and FFX are over rated.SuperVegeta518

Points to SuperVegeta518'sGeOW avatar

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"][QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"] I can't think of a single video game that competes with current fiction in terms of quality Jandurin

Planescape: Torment does.

I almost agree with you on this. Planescape is another good example of a game that cries out "whaaat? when could video games do this?"

Perhaps my first statement was a little too strong: we might be able to count a handful, at best, of games that can compete with mediocre modern fiction in terms of quality and depth. But even the masterpeices of fiction gaming don't approach some of the better work in fiction and fantasy.

Seriously, some games reach mediocre fiction novel. No game reaches/competes with good Fantasy/Sci Fi (in terms of story, entertainment value is another thing entirely).

You won't see a video game with the same story telling found in works like Ender's Game, American Gods, or A Song of Ice and Fire anytime soon.  Gaming just doesn't function like literature at the moment -- it's too scared to experiment, mesh in real and gritty content that breathes life into dramatic works, and caters too much to consumer demand.  Most consumers just don't value ideas, or even tolerate new ideas, long enough for an idea to be appreciated intrinsically.  Such fans limit the capability of gaming to that of a simple toy that provides basic and mediocre forms of pleasure -- a game is "okay" even if the plot is sub-standard, full of franchised and regurgitated content,  as long as it provides the most basic levels of entertainment. 

Everyone loves video games for fun -- who doesn't enjoy a round of mindless slaughter or swatting at tennis balls.  But the problem is that most people can't concieve of the idea that games are capable of being so much more.  I think a video game penned out by a great writer and programmed by a wonderful team of devs could completely revolutionize entertainment media.

The only problem is that we don't demand or tolerate it, =/.  

[QUOTE="SuperVegeta518"]Xenogears and FFX are over rated.superkoolstud

Points to GeOW avatar

When you point at him, be sure to smile and give a thumbs up. He deserves it since he's right. 

[QUOTE="LongshotX2"]

Never played Planetscape Torment.

Is it like Fallout?

FoamingPanda

If fallout was a +3 longsword, planescape would be a +5 vorpal greatsword.  

 I see.

*turns on his favorite bit torrent client* 

Everyone loves video games for fun -- who doesn't enjoy a round of mindless slaughter or swatting at tennis balls.  But the problem is that most people can't concieve of the idea that games are capable of being so much more.  I think a video game penned out by a great writer and programmed by a wonderful team of devs could completely revolutionize entertainment media.FoamingPanda

That would be so  great.  I've been yearning for such a thing for as long as I've been gaming.

Oh, as to the books you mentioned, just because, Ender's Game - read the whole series, and certain parts of it multiple times.  Read American Gods.  Reading Song of Ice and Fire right now (on the third book).

I wish they would figure out a way to make a game following the Ender's Game or Speaker for the Dead.  It almost could be a game as it is.  Even just the Giant's game within Ender's Game would be cool to see, and if it were a mini-game within the actual game, it would be... awesome.

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"][QUOTE="LongshotX2"]

Never played Planetscape Torment.

Is it like Fallout?

LongshotX2

If fallout was a +3 longsword, planescape would be a +5 vorpal greatsword.

I see.

*turns on his favorite bit torrent client*

A word of warning: it's extremely graphically out-dated and crazy.  You play a tiefling demon who wakes up next to a floating talking skull.  It's a very strange, wacky, game that is so much different than other RPG's on the market.  You don't even have to engage in combat half the time.

Big hint:  Wisdom is the best stat in the game.  Boost it.  

I always enjoyed Baldur's Gate II a little more than planescape.  The characters produced a little more empathy and the setting wasn't quite so exotic.  

Big hint:  Wisdom is the best stat in the game.  Boost it.  FoamingPanda

[QUOTE="LongshotX2"][QUOTE="FoamingPanda"][QUOTE="LongshotX2"]

Never played Planetscape Torment.

Is it like Fallout?

FoamingPanda

If fallout was a +3 longsword, planescape would be a +5 vorpal greatsword.

I see.

*turns on his favorite bit torrent client*

A word of warning: it's extremely graphically out-dated and crazy.  You play a tiefling demon who wakes up next to a floating talking skull.  It's a very strange, wacky, game that is so much different than other RPG's on the market.  You don't even have to engage in combat half the time.

Big hint:  Wisdom is the best stat in the game.  Boost it.  

I always enjoyed Baldur's Gate II a little more than planescape.  The characters produced a little more empathy and the setting wasn't quite so exotic.  

If i can endure blocks and cubes of FFVII or fog of Superman 64 i am pretty sure that i won't mind Planetscape's graphics.

Besides,i love wacky games.Too bad there aren't too many of them -_- 

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]Everyone loves video games for fun -- who doesn't enjoy a round of mindless slaughter or swatting at tennis balls. But the problem is that most people can't concieve of the idea that games are capable of being so much more. I think a video game penned out by a great writer and programmed by a wonderful team of devs could completely revolutionize entertainment media.Jandurin

That would be so great. I've been yearning for such a thing for as long as I've been gaming.

Oh, as to the books you mentioned, just because, Ender's Game - read the whole series, and certain parts of it multiple times. Read American Gods. Reading Song of Ice and Fire right now (on the third book).

I wish they would figure out a way to make a game following the Ender's Game or Speaker for the Dead. It almost could be a game as it is. Even just the Giant's game within Ender's Game would be cool to see, and if it were a mini-game within the actual game, it would be... awesome.

Better yet, what if a talented writer could create a line of games that are completely different and on-level with current fiction. Why just copy an existing franchise? A good writer could write something more engrossing than Ender's Game or ASoIF. What if we demanded these products, refused to purchase games produced at the current quality level, and told developers and publishers -- "you must work harder for our money! We demand new and great products! If you can program for machines that can process a thousand chickens on the screen at once, or whatever funny benchmark comes to mind, you SHOULD be able to hire a good writer!"

But this will never, ever, happen considering the current state of the market. Different companies prevent this from occuring in different ways. We'll occasionally see a jewel shimmer through the lump of coal that all too many of us mindlessly buy, but it will never be recognized and demanded like it should. People don't see games as anything more than, "oh boy, time to sit down and push buttons for X purpose!" (which is fine, but, should not be considered the primary function of final end of gaming).

Why write and create art when you can sell a mass-advertised marketing icon to a market with incredibly low standards?

Why do you think Panda is always so sad and skulks around mawing things? Games have evolved so much, graphically, over the years... but we're still fed ideas and franchises that are well over two generations old.

Here's a teaser. Everyone here wants to know, "God Panda, you hate everything. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO!"

Yes I do. It involves you and me, and all gamers who think of games as something more than simple toys . It's up to us to salvage this sad mess that this generation has created.

Why do you think Panda is always so sad and skulks around mawing things?  Games have evolved so much, graphically, over the years... but we're still fed ideas and franchises that are well over two generations old. FoamingPanda

Aye.  That's a large part of why I didn't play many games last generation.  I'm hoping for more this one, but it probably is in vain.

We should write an author and pose your idea.  The writing of a new... franchise by a good author could be excellent.

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]Why do you think Panda is always so sad and skulks around mawing things? Games have evolved so much, graphically, over the years... but we're still fed ideas and franchises that are well over two generations old. Jandurin

Aye. That's a large part of why I didn't play many games last generation. I'm hoping for more this one, but it probably is in vain.

We should write an author and pose your idea. The writing of a new... franchise by a good author could be excellent.

There is no way on earth that writing an author and posing this idea would fly. Remember, this is gaming, it's not about one man sitting in his solar, writing down ideas over a couple of years. Gaming is about making money. It takes enormous amounts of capital to design, publish, and market a game.

We can never hope to see games apsire to be anything more unless consumers create the demand for gaming to be something more.  Developers do nothing more these days than meet consumer demand.  We can't expect a company, given the size of current development costs, to create great things for us.

There should be small and mindless fun games.  But there should also be complex and epic games that are truely epic and complex (not simply in appearance or advertised as such).  We should judge and hold more complex games to a higher standard, like any other form of entertainment, because the ideas and content within the games are internally more valuable than their more simple counterparts.  (aka my blog post on pleasure).

We must demand good games with our dollars.

And buying 9/10 of the garbage currently floating around this market is probably the worst message we can send to developers.

We can never hope to see games apsire to be anything more unless consumers create the demand for gaming to be something more.   FoamingPanda

Better yet, what if a talented writer could create a line of games that are completely different and on-level with current fiction. Why just copy an existing franchise? A good writer could write something more engrossing than Ender's Game or ASoIF. What if we demanded these products, refused to purchase games produced at the current quality level, and told developers and publishers -- "you must work harder for our money! We demand new and great products! If you can program for machines that can process a thousand chickens on the screen at once, or whatever funny benchmark comes to mind, you SHOULD be able to hire a good writer!"

But this will never, ever, happen considering the current state of the market. Different companies prevent this from occuring in different ways. We'll occasionally see a jewel shimmer through the lump of coal that all too many of us mindlessly buy, but it will never be recognized and demanded like it should. People don't see games as anything more than, "oh boy, time to sit down and push buttons for X purpose!" (which is fine, but, should not be considered the primary function of final end of gaming).

Why write and create art when you can sell a mass-advertised marketing icon to a market with incredibly low standards?

Why do you think Panda is always so sad and skulks around mawing things? Games have evolved so much, graphically, over the years... but we're still fed ideas and franchises that are well over two generations old.

Here's a teaser. Everyone here wants to know, "God Panda, you hate everything. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO!"

Yes I do. It involves you and me, and all gamers who think of games as something more than simple toys . It's up to us to salvage this sad mess that this generation has created.

 

FoamingPanda

Well I think part of the problem is that games are intrinsicly more difficult to write for because of the interactivity of the medium.  Not only do you have to pull off a good story, you have to do so in a way that brings in the player.   

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]Everyone loves video games for fun -- who doesn't enjoy a round of mindless slaughter or swatting at tennis balls. But the problem is that most people can't concieve of the idea that games are capable of being so much more. I think a video game penned out by a great writer and programmed by a wonderful team of devs could completely revolutionize entertainment media.FoamingPanda

That would be so great. I've been yearning for such a thing for as long as I've been gaming.

Oh, as to the books you mentioned, just because, Ender's Game - read the whole series, and certain parts of it multiple times. Read American Gods. Reading Song of Ice and Fire right now (on the third book).

I wish they would figure out a way to make a game following the Ender's Game or Speaker for the Dead. It almost could be a game as it is. Even just the Giant's game within Ender's Game would be cool to see, and if it were a mini-game within the actual game, it would be... awesome.

Better yet, what if a talented writer could create a line of games that are completely different and on-level with current fiction. Why just copy an existing franchise? A good writer could write something more engrossing than Ender's Game or ASoIF. What if we demanded these products, refused to purchase games produced at the current quality level, and told developers and publishers -- "you must work harder for our money! We demand new and great products! If you can program for machines that can process a thousand chickens on the screen at once, or whatever funny benchmark comes to mind, you SHOULD be able to hire a good writer!"

But this will never, ever, happen considering the current state of the market. Different companies prevent this from occuring in different ways. We'll occasionally see a jewel shimmer through the lump of coal that all too many of us mindlessly buy, but it will never be recognized and demanded like it should. People don't see games as anything more than, "oh boy, time to sit down and push buttons for X purpose!" (which is fine, but, should not be considered the primary function of final end of gaming).

Why write and create art when you can sell a mass-advertised marketing icon to a market with incredibly low standards?

Why do you think Panda is always so sad and skulks around mawing things? Games have evolved so much, graphically, over the years... but we're still fed ideas and franchises that are well over two generations old.

Here's a teaser. Everyone here wants to know, "God Panda, you hate everything. YOU DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO!"

Yes I do. It involves you and me. It's up to us to salvage this sad mess that this generation has created.

The thousand chickens sounds like a reference to something Cray said "which would you rather have for plowing a field- two strong oxen, or 1024 chickens?"

Unfortunately in the end he was wrong and it made a lot more sense to take the chickens. 

This generation isn't the mess you want to make it out to be - more powerful hardware and better A/V equipment have allowed a few good things. Look at Mistwalker - the creator of Final Fantasy producing games like ASH, Blue Dragon, and Lost Odyssey which offer far more unique storylines than any Final Fantasy game churned out by Square Enix has pushed in a number of years.

Look at Little Big World. It's not all about storytelling with words - videogames have become an art medium - and sometimes games like Okami paint a picture on the wall that says more than any literati-approved game could.

[QUOTE="FoamingPanda"]We can never hope to see games apsire to be anything more unless consumers create the demand for gaming to be something more. Jandurin

And industry crash?  Hardly.  A simple shift in consumer expectations, standards, and demands could have immediate and enormous effects on the quality of games.  Ken, Bill, and the rest of the gang have so much capital that they could see a radical shift in consumer demand from miles away (hell, one company is already catering to a new form of consumder demand -- although a terribly bad for of it).  

The thousand chickens sounds like a reference to something Cray said "which would you rather have for plowing a field- two strong oxen, or 1024 chickens?"

Actually, it was just citing the most impressive technological demonstration I've seen with next-gen hardware this gen:  the giant benchmark program that rendered a ton of chickens on the PS3.  10,000 chickens, but not one developer this gen can give us ONE good writer?  C'mon now... 

This generation isn't the mess you want to make it out to be - more powerful hardware and better A/V equipment have allowed a few good things. Look at Mistwalker - the creator of Final Fantasy producing games like ASH, Blue Dragon, and Lost Odyssey which offer far more unique storylines than any Final Fantasy game churned out by Square Enix has pushed in a number of years.

The problem I describe above is different in intensity depending on the console or format in question.  True, we have more powerful hardware -- but I still pose this question:  thus far, what have we seen in terms of "epic" games?  Something that might be considered mediocre on a bookshelf, if even that?  How ground-breaking and revolutionary are these titles you cite?  Will these games present ideas and interaction that mirror a high liteary standard?  I doubt it.  Games never had, and until we demand better, games never will.  Even games who break the mold, which are EXTREMELY scarce as it, fail to live up to an objective and fair standard.