Now, THIS, my fellow console fanboys is playing an FPS with mouse and keyboard

Well to start, his post has nothing to do with the TC post......

You have to know dimar......he's a.....quite a character. He will just deny everything. He thinks GRAW for the 360 is more tactical than the PC version, even though just about every review has stated that's definently not the case, even GS.
trix5817

IT IS NOT AN OPINION IT IS A FACT! How you can dispute this, I do not know. Which one you like more is an opinion however.
trix5817

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="mmogoon"][QUOTE="james24gmail"]

Mouse and keyboard is far superior to gamepad for FPS. I own both a highend PC system and a 360. Keyboard and mouse is far superior for FPS gaming, if you don't believe that you obviously have never used a PC and you're bias. The controller is better for things like racing games.

Honestly, there are both good at certain things but saying rubbish like controllers are better for FPS is so laughable.

DarkT33

[QUOTE="baddog121390"][QUOTE="Spartan070"][QUOTE="james24gmail"]

Mouse and keyboard is far superior to gamepad for FPS. I own both a highend PC system and a 360. Keyboard and mouse is far superior for FPS gaming, if you don't believe that you obviously have never used a PC and you're bias. The controller is better for things like racing games.

Honestly, there are both good at certain things but saying rubbish like controllers are better for FPS is so laughable.

mmogoon

If FPSes were so equal on game pads, then why isn't there more on consoles? Since that's where the money is at, and it's far easier and more cheaper -- wouldn't there be more on consoles?

That's because of controls. All PC to console ports either turn out to be crap, or need a spin-off that's far worse to it's PC original. This is why Halo controls or so easy compared to ever PC FPS. My point is, the more controls and precise movement allow for more complex and deep gameplay. This is where game pads fail.
baddog121390

[QUOTE="baddog121390"]If FPSes were so equal on game pads, then why isn't there more on consoles? Since that's where the money is at, and it's far easier and more cheaper -- wouldn't there be more on consoles?

That's because of controls. All PC to console ports either turn out to be crap, or need a spin-off that's far worse to it's PC original. This is why Halo controls or so easy compared to ever PC FPS. My point is, the more controls and precise movement allow for more complex and deep gameplay. This is where game pads fail.
Spartan070

Try and do this at a good pace on a game pad:


baddog121390

The points are:

1) All PC shooters since HL2 are total crap. I bought only COD 2 (not too good either), the rest just don't worth even 5$
2) Pads have rumble and triggers = much more fun
3) Shadowrun's developers tested multyplayer between CS players and console players and PC gamers lost everytime, so they need to make autoaime for PC version.
dimar19

OMG, now I know what you guys meant.

[QUOTE="DarkT33"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="mmogoon"][QUOTE="james24gmail"]

Mouse and keyboard is far superior to gamepad for FPS. I own both a highend PC system and a 360. Keyboard and mouse is far superior for FPS gaming, if you don't believe that you obviously have never used a PC and you're bias. The controller is better for things like racing games.

Honestly, there are both good at certain things but saying rubbish like controllers are better for FPS is so laughable.

trix5817

[QUOTE="dimar19"]The points are:

1) All PC shooters since HL2 are total crap. I bought only COD 2 (not too good either), the rest just don't worth even 5$
2) Pads have rumble and triggers = much more fun
3) Shadowrun's developers tested multyplayer between CS players and console players and PC gamers lost everytime, so they need to make autoaime for PC version.
Spartan070

OMG, now I know what you guys meant.

[QUOTE="baddog121390"]If FPSes were so equal on game pads, then why isn't there more on consoles? Since that's where the money is at, and it's far easier and more cheaper -- wouldn't there be more on consoles?

That's because of controls. All PC to console ports either turn out to be crap, or need a spin-off that's far worse to it's PC original. This is why Halo controls or so easy compared to ever PC FPS. My point is, the more controls and precise movement allow for more complex and deep gameplay. This is where game pads fail.
Spartan070

More precise aiming allows the developers to achieve higher levels of intelligent AI. Do this on a game pad and it would be too difficult for the player to keep up.

Well I don't know, Halo Legendary is just as difficult as any PC shooter I can think of.

More controls + precise movement allow for better use of physics. Explain to me why even the tri-core 360 can't deliver PC GRAW level physics. In can, but the developers knew it would be too much for the game pad and just be wasted development time.

I can guarantee you that is not the reason, devs hold back on physics because of system limitations, not what type of control interface the player will be using.

Accurate aiming with the mouse pointer allows for easy-to-use customabilty options. Such as real-time weapon, ammo, and suit customizations.

I fail to see how aiming precision affects "real-time weapon" and "suit customizations."

baddog121390

[QUOTE="baddog121390"]More precise aiming allows the developers to achieve higher levels of intelligent AI. Do this on a game pad and it would be too difficult for the player to keep up.

Well I don't know, Halo Legendary is just as difficult as any PC shooter I can think of.

More controls precise movement allow for better use of physics. Explain to me why even the tri-core 360 can't deliver PC GRAW level physics. In can, but the developers knew it would be too much for the game pad and just be wasted development time.

I can guarantee you that is not the reason, devs hold back on physics because of system limitations, not what type of control interface the player will be using.

Accurate aiming with the mouse pointer allows for easy-to-use customabilty options. Such as real-time weapon, ammo, and suit customizations.

I fail to see how aiming precision affects "real-time weapon" and "suit customizations."

Spartan070

[QUOTE="baddog121390"]
Try and do this at a good pace on a game pad:


Spartan070

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="DarkT33"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="mmogoon"][QUOTE="james24gmail"]

Mouse and keyboard is far superior to gamepad for FPS. I own both a highend PC system and a 360. Keyboard and mouse is far superior for FPS gaming, if you don't believe that you obviously have never used a PC and you're bias. The controller is better for things like racing games.

Honestly, there are both good at certain things but saying rubbish like controllers are better for FPS is so laughable.

DarkT33

Halo legendary wasn't hard because of AI. And FarCry on easy is harder than Halo legendary anyways.
baddog121390

[QUOTE="Spartan070"]

[QUOTE="dimar19"]The points are:

1) All PC shooters since HL2 are total crap. I bought only COD 2 (not too good either), the rest just don't worth even 5$
2) Pads have rumble and triggers = much more fun
3) Shadowrun's developers tested multyplayer between CS players and console players and PC gamers lost everytime, so they need to make autoaime for PC version.
dimar19

OMG, now I know what you guys meant.

Ok, lets set the facts straight.

Someone take a gamepad and hook it up to your pc

Then vs me 1 on 1 in cs or css.

You will have the gamepad and i will have the keyboard/mouse.

Next find me a consol game that supports keyboard and mouse and vs me online in that game.

No way in hell is aiming with the sticks better.

My mouse is accurate up to 2000dpi.

DPI is dots per inch. So make a 1inch by 1inch square and image 2000 square dots in their. That my friend is pinpoint accuracy.
Cloud1010

Dimar? Why do you even bother anymore? You have been owned so many times it's ridiculous.
trix5817

[QUOTE="trix5817"]
Dimar? Why do you even bother anymore? You have been owned so many times it's ridiculous.
dimar19

Controller>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mouse/keyboard. Fact.mr_pops238

mouse/keyboard>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>sony. Fact.

Controller>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mouse/keyboard. Fact.mr_pops238

[QUOTE="mr_pops238"]Controller>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mouse/keyboard. Fact.Shadow_Elite192

Lol no. Mouse/keyboard is only better for fps games.

1. Aiming is fantasic

1. No analog movement
2. No analog grenade throwing
3. No analog trigger for shooting
4. Not confortable
5. Unhealthy for your hands
6. Sucks because no rumble, in real life when you shoot a gun it kicks back
7. Sucks for just about every single god damn type of game except for shooters
8. It sucks. Thanks god Games for Windows will have 360 controller support
9. People who swear by the K+M tend to suck
10. Get real, the K+M was not even designed for gaming so don't make me laugh. It sucks.
    

This

and

especially this

Enjoy.

IgGy621985

Reasons I like the K+M

1. Aiming is fantasic

Reasons I dislike the K+M

1. No analog movement
2. No analog grenade throwing
3. No analog trigger for shooting
4. Not confortable
5. Unhealthy for your hands
6. Sucks because no rumble, in real life when you shoot a gun it kicks back
7. Sucks for just about every single god damn type of game except for shooters
8. It sucks. Thanks god Games for Windows will have 360 controller support
9. People who swear by the K+M tend to suck
10. Get real, the K+M was not even designed for gaming so don't make me laugh. It sucks.
    

ginazswordsman

1: WASD keys are better than analog, because you can access more than just 4 trigger buttons and 2 analog stick buttons without completely abandoning movement.   

2: And this a is a bad thing? 

3: Again, that's a bad thing?    

4: I'd take precision and more keys over sitting on a couch anyday.

5: I've played Pc fps alot and my hands feel perfectly fine.  

6: There's plently of force-feedback mice out there.   

7: Add RTS, MMORPG, racer simulators, and WRPG.   

8: Pc's had controller support way before your 360 controller was ever thought of.   

9: Tell that to the top UT2004 players.   

10: It still owns controllers in some genres.

Reasons I like the K+M

1. Aiming is fantasic

Reasons I dislike the K+M

1. No analog movement
2. No analog grenade throwing
3. No analog trigger for shooting
4. Not confortable
5. Unhealthy for your hands
6. Sucks because no rumble, in real life when you shoot a gun it kicks back
7. Sucks for just about every single god damn type of game except for shooters
8. It sucks. Thanks god Games for Windows will have 360 controller support
9. People who swear by the K+M tend to suck
10. Get real, the K+M was not even designed for gaming so don't make me laugh. It sucks.
    

ginazswordsman

Reasons I like the K+M

1. Aiming is fantasic

Reasons I dislike the K+M

1. No analog movement
2. No analog grenade throwing
3. No analog trigger for shooting
4. Not confortable
5. Unhealthy for your hands
6. Sucks because no rumble, in real life when you shoot a gun it kicks back
7. Sucks for just about every single god damn type of game except for shooters
8. It sucks. Thanks god Games for Windows will have 360 controller support
9. People who swear by the K+M tend to suck
10. Get real, the K+M was not even designed for gaming so don't make me laugh. It sucks.ginazswordsman

I loved this one "Sucks for just about every single god damn type of game except for shooters"  RIGHTTTT!!!!

Ever play a RTS on a console, LOL, what a waste.  How about a Strategy game such as Civ 4 or Korsun Pocket, contoller would suck so bad.  How about "The Sim 2 on the controller, pathetic.

Now I definately like playing platforms, driving and sports games with a controller.  But KB/M kicks in lots of other genres, including FPS/TPS.

Reasons why I like Controler for FPS/TPS

1. Analog

2. No Rumble, but thats also why I think the PS3 contoller sucks also.

Reasons why I like KB/M for FPS/TPS

1. Aiming is absolutely superior

2. Much more responsive movements

3. Loads of Hotkeys, unlike limited and acward controller button controls.  Options means to automatically switch between a rocket launcher to machine gun with one button press, unlike limited auto switching on controllers

4. Much more realistic action, or much more personalized if you just want to slowly scan the horizon or quickly turn. around.

Now I might not have 10 reasons like you, but I don't put fluff in my arguement, like you mentioned analog 3 times, your personal opinion 2 times about comfort, and your 7 to 10 reasons are not even reasons.

My list completely owns controllers, it's all about the aiming, speed and options to switch guns/gernades/etc.

To the people who say MK/B sucks for gaming:

If it was so bad, then why over these 17 odd years, have people not switched to gamepads to play FPS, let alone most PC games?

And why do people so despertaly want KB/M support for console games? Prephiral products, and console fanboys screaming UT3 PS3 will have KB/M support at the drop of a hat.... What next?

And If gamepads were so good for FPS games, then all PC gamers would be using them - as there are far more gamepads available for PC than any console in existance, and yet KB/M still stays as the pinncle for FPS games.

So we get the best of both worlds - and we choose the KB/M for FPS gaming. Go figure.
muscrat_01

[QUOTE="ginazswordsman"]Reasons I like the K+M

1. Aiming is fantasic

Reasons I dislike the K+M

1. No analog movement
2. No analog grenade throwing
3. No analog trigger for shooting
4. Not confortable
5. Unhealthy for your hands
6. Sucks because no rumble, in real life when you shoot a gun it kicks back
7. Sucks for just about every single god damn type of game except for shooters
8. It sucks. Thanks god Games for Windows will have 360 controller support
9. People who swear by the K+M tend to suck
10. Get real, the K+M was not even designed for gaming so don't make me laugh. It sucks.
    

Stabby2486

1: WASD keys are better than analog, because you can access more than just 4 trigger buttons and 2 analog stick buttons without completely abandoning movement.

2: And this a is a bad thing?

3: Again, that's a bad thing?

4: I'd take precision and more keys over sitting on a couch anyday.

5: I've played Pc fps alot and my hands feel perfectly fine.

6: There's plently of force-feedback mice out there.

7: Add RTS, MMORPG, racer simulators, and WRPG.

8: Pc's had controller support way before your 360 controller was ever thought of.

9: Tell that to the top UT2004 players.

10: It still owns controllers in some genres.

1. You don't get it. In real life people don't have two speeds of movement. With the K+M you can only Run and Walk. That's inferior to analog control. WADS is garbage and is not designed for the human hand. WADS is not erogomic and it is unhealthy. Face reality.
2. Yes, not having analog control is a bad thing. In real life when you throw a grenade you can throw it hard or soft, fast or slow. With the K+M you are limited to throwing by how long you hold down the key which is stupid and unrealistic and I hate it when console games handle grenades the same way because it's a waste of the analog control
3. Yes, in real life guns have triggers, just like the triggers on a controller. Does the K+M have analog triggers? No they do not.
4. Analog control allows you have superior levels of precision since you can dynamically change how fast you move, shoot and aim all at the same time instead of just dynamically aiming on a PC. Besides I'm not sure if you've noticed by all the actions in a FPS can be easily mapped to a controller.
5. Just because you hands feel perfectly fine doesn't mean it's healthy. There's a reason why companies sell erogonic keyboards.
6. I don't see anyone uses them.
7. RTS I can agree with you but you have got to be joking with racing sims. No analog breaking and acceleration with a K+M so you have got to be kidding me. MMORGP and WRPG is a matter of opinon.
8. But it was never manditory until now.
9. I'd respect them more as gamers if they could show that they were excellent players at multiple types of games and not just one type of game.
10. Opinion. It has advantages in a FEW types of games. Face reality, the K+M was never designed for gaming and it CLEARLY shows.
    

To the people who say MK/B sucks for gaming:

If it was so bad, then why over these 17 odd years, have people not switched to gamepads to play FPS, let alone most PC games?

And why do people so despertaly want KB/M support for console games?  Prephiral products, and console fanboys screaming UT3 PS3 will have KB/M support at the drop of a hat.... What next?

And If gamepads were so good for FPS games, then all PC gamers would be using them - as there are far more gamepads available for PC than any console in existance, and yet KB/M still stays as the pinncle for FPS games.

So we get the best of both worlds - and we choose the KB/M for FPS gaming. Go figure.
muscrat_01

/Thread

Complete and utter OWNAG3!!!

1. You don't get it. In real life people don't have two speeds of movement. With the K+M you can only Run and Walk. That's inferior to analog control. WADS is garbage and is not designed for the human hand. WADS is not erogomic and it is unhealthy. Face reality.
2. Yes, not having analog control is a bad thing. In real life when you throw a grenade you can throw it hard or soft, fast or slow. With the K+M you are limited to throwing by how long you hold down the key which is stupid and unrealistic and I hate it when console games handle grenades the same way because it's a waste of the analog control
3. Yes, in real life guns have triggers, just like the triggers on a controller. Does the K+M have analog triggers? No they do not.
4. Analog control allows you have superior levels of precision since you can dynamically change how fast you move, shoot and aim all at the same time instead of just dynamically aiming on a PC. Besides I'm not sure if you've noticed by all the actions in a FPS can be easily mapped to a controller.
5. Just because you hands feel perfectly fine doesn't mean it's healthy. There's a reason why companies sell erogonic keyboards.
6. I don't see anyone uses them.
7. RTS I can agree with you but you have got to be joking with racing sims. No analog breaking and acceleration with a K+M so you have got to be kidding me. MMORGP and WRPG is a matter of opinon.
8. But it was never manditory until now.
9. I'd respect them more as gamers if they could show that they were excellent players at multiple types of games and not just one type of game.
10. Opinion. It has advantages in a FEW types of games. Face reality, the K+M was never designed for gaming and it CLEARLY shows.
    

1: Hidden and Dangerous 2 has 4 speeds you can use and I can use WASD keys perfectly fine.  

2: I can use that mode and overhand and underhand throws in Red Orchestra and Infiltration. And anyway how the heck would you aim if all you could do is adjust how much force you put into a throw with a analog stick?

3: What the heck is the point trigger senstive shooting? It doesn't help, in fact in Gears one of the reasons the pistol is hard to use you have to constantly press RT.   

4: . See that little dot to the left? You could spend all day trying to get the tip of your cursor to touch it with a analog stick. And if you decrease the sensitivity you'll won't get jumpy aiming but your turning speed will suck, increase the sensitivity and you get better turning but your aiming will suck.   

5: I've played pc Fps since early 2006 and my hands never had any problems. 

6: I can still buy one.  

7: Multiple buttons. And you can't pause a MMORPG.  

8: I still could use them.   

9: I could say the same about Halo 2 players.  

10: It still works for some genres.

1: Hidden and Dangerous 2 has 4 speeds you can use and I can use WASD keys perfectly fine.

2: I can use that mode and overhand and underhand throws in Red Orchestra and Infiltration. And anyway how the heck would you aim if all you could do is adjust how much force you put into a throw with a analog stick?

3: What the heck is the point trigger senstive shooting? It doesn't help, in fact in Gears one of the reasons the pistol is hard to use you have to constantly press RT.

4: . See that little dot to the left? You could spend all day trying to get the tip of your cursor to touch it with a analog stick. And if you decrease the sensitivity you'll won't get jumpy aiming but your turning speed will suck, increase the sensitivity and you get better turning but your aiming will suck.

5: I've played pc Fps since early 2006 and my hands never had any problems.

6: I can still buy one.

7: Multiple buttons. And you can't pause a MMORPG.

8: I still could use them.

9: I could say the same about Halo 2 players.

10: It still works for some genres.

Stabby2486

1. 4 speeds is not better than analog control. What are you trying to prove by mentioning one game that gives you two more speeds? Are you kidding?
2. You don't throw with an analog stick! You throw with the analog strigger and aim with the stick. (kind of a duh moment there for you)
3. Reality check. Hand guns that are not automatic exist and they have triggers. Just like the one in gears of war. That's reality.
4. Funny thing is that enemies in a video game are not this small:    .      Neither are the the heads of the enemies for head shots. And in reality guns can be heavy and they take time to aim. In reality people don't turn around in a flash. The human body actually has to perform complex movments on the battle field and those movments are better represented with analog sticks for control even if it isn't perfect.
5. Congradulations.
6. Yet nobody does.
7. Multiple buttons do not replace analog control for things that NEED to be analog for realism. MMO's can't be paused that's pretty Duh considering that I can't think of a single online game that can be paused. In reality you need to stop for a second and look threw your pack in order to find stuff. I don't know about you but when I dig in my pocket for something that takes time I don't have buttons mapped to items in my pockets.
8. Good for you.
9. And you'd be right. Who cares?
10. It works for all games. It just sucks for most of them.
    

[QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="ginazswordsman"]Reasons I like the K+M

1. Aiming is fantasic

Reasons I dislike the K+M

1. No analog movement
2. No analog grenade throwing
3. No analog trigger for shooting
4. Not confortable
5. Unhealthy for your hands
6. Sucks because no rumble, in real life when you shoot a gun it kicks back
7. Sucks for just about every single god damn type of game except for shooters
8. It sucks. Thanks god Games for Windows will have 360 controller support
9. People who swear by the K+M tend to suck
10. Get real, the K+M was not even designed for gaming so don't make me laugh. It sucks.
    

ginazswordsman

1: WASD keys are better than analog, because you can access more than just 4 trigger buttons and 2 analog stick buttons without completely abandoning movement.

2: And this a is a bad thing?

3: Again, that's a bad thing?

4: I'd take precision and more keys over sitting on a couch anyday.

5: I've played Pc fps alot and my hands feel perfectly fine.

6: There's plently of force-feedback mice out there.

7: Add RTS, MMORPG, racer simulators, and WRPG.

8: Pc's had controller support way before your 360 controller was ever thought of.

9: Tell that to the top UT2004 players.

10: It still owns controllers in some genres.

1. You don't get it. In real life people don't have two speeds of movement. With the K+M you can only Run and Walk. That's inferior to analog control. WADS is garbage and is not designed for the human hand. WADS is not erogomic and it is unhealthy. Face reality.
2. Yes, not having analog control is a bad thing. In real life when you throw a grenade you can throw it hard or soft, fast or slow. With the K+M you are limited to throwing by how long you hold down the key which is stupid and unrealistic and I hate it when console games handle grenades the same way because it's a waste of the analog control
3. Yes, in real life guns have triggers, just like the triggers on a controller. Does the K+M have analog triggers? No they do not.
4. Analog control allows you have superior levels of precision since you can dynamically change how fast you move, shoot and aim all at the same time instead of just dynamically aiming on a PC. Besides I'm not sure if you've noticed by all the actions in a FPS can be easily mapped to a controller.
5. Just because you hands feel perfectly fine doesn't mean it's healthy. There's a reason why companies sell erogonic keyboards.
6. I don't see anyone uses them.
7. RTS I can agree with you but you have got to be joking with racing sims. No analog breaking and acceleration with a K+M so you have got to be kidding me. MMORGP and WRPG is a matter of opinon.
8. But it was never manditory until now.
9. I'd respect them more as gamers if they could show that they were excellent players at multiple types of games and not just one type of game.
10. Opinion. It has advantages in a FEW types of games. Face reality, the K+M was never designed for gaming and it CLEARLY shows.
    

1. 4 speeds is not better than analog control. What are you trying to prove by mentioning one game that gives you two more speeds? Are you kidding?     
2. You don't throw with an analog stick! You throw with the analog strigger and aim with the stick. (kind of a duh moment there for you)
3. Reality check. Hand guns that are not automatic exist and they have triggers. Just like the one in gears of war. That's reality.
4. Funny thing is that enemies in a video game are not this small:    .      Neither are the the heads of the enemies for head shots. And in reality guns can be heavy and they take time to aim. In reality people don't turn around in a flash. The human body actually has to perform complex movments on the battle field and those movments are better represented with analog sticks for control even if it isn't perfect.
5. Congradulations.
6. Yet nobody does.
7. Multiple buttons do not replace analog control for things that NEED to be analog for realism. MMO's can't be paused that's pretty Duh considering that I can't think of a single online game that can be paused. In reality you need to stop for a second and look threw your pack in order to find stuff. I don't know about you but when I dig in my pocket for something that takes time I don't have buttons mapped to items in my pockets.
8. Good for you.
9. And you'd be right. Who cares?
10. It works for all games. It just sucks for most of them.
    

1: That there isn't just two speeds.     

2: It isn't called a analog trigger, so I thought it you meant the analog stick button.    

3: I can tap my mouse key. And plently Pc fps have adjustable fire modes.  

4: You were talking about precision, not about how much of it you need. 

5: Um, okay?  

6: ^^. 

7: So basicly, you like handicapping yourself?

8: See 5. 

9: See 5 again.  

10: Still works for the genres it does best.

Lol. This thread is so funny.

In general:

Gamepad best for driving, sports and platformers.

KB + M best for shooters, strategy. MMO's.

For those of you are deluded into thinking the gamepad is best for shooting answer the following:

How many pro CS/Quake gamers use a gamepad?

Can you imagine a pro team like Four Kings turning up to the next tourney with gamepads! ROFL

1. Umm no on a KB you could mouse wheel to adjust the pace your moving at - ala Splinter Cell, or you could alternativley use the shift key switch to a walking pace. And since when did real soldiers fire while running, let alone jogging. Go play Armed Assault or Operation Flashpoint.

2. In Halo you tap the trigger you throw a grenade. In a PC FPS game you grenade further by the amount of time you have held it..... How is that less realistic? Wouldent throwing a real grenade, let alone a Wii movement be the only realistic choice...?

3. So pulling a triger on a Pad is more real than pushing a button? Technicaly yes? Does it mean its better? no.
If its so realstic then why arent there any realistic shooters on console, and why dont the realistic PC shooters incorperate gamapads into their controls?... but its a trigger. Does that make light gun games the most realistic FPS shooter experience concived by man?

4. If PC FPS controls could be so easily mapped by a controller, then why have those KB/M console attachments, not emulated KB/M properly? No, console movement is mapped much better on PC - we have pads you know :roll:
Holding W and D makes you move in a right diagonal direction like pushing a thumstick North East. Your given 8 directions of movement on a KB, and 8 on a pad... No difference...... How is either more realistic?

5. The erganomic keyboards are more rounded keyboards. No one has the same type of hands, and has different levls of comfort - so there is a keyboard to suit peoples needs. Not everyone likes Dual Shock controllers, or the 360 one ect. - Everyone has their own personal preferance. Go Figure.
And KB/B is just as healthy as a gamepad - you can get cramps on both, and muscle aches. Go Figure.

6. Yes but apparantly there are FF mice out there... So you cant argue that. Also considering the PC has some of the most immerisve games in existance, I dont see rumble making them morse.

7. Yes Racing is okay on KB - but the pad is dtefitnaly superior. Same for Action Adventure games ala PoP. MMOS and WRPGS KB/M mouse easily trashes Gamepad. Same with FPS.......

8. PCs had controller support since the bloody beginning. Its always there, and its always been 'mandtory'.
I can use my 360 pad with almostany game.

9. No PC FPS gamers are extremely skilled - morso than their console counterparts because the games are more demmanding on a skill level - ala Quake, UT and Cs - and the game + controller dosent hinder their abilities.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lh0mrCN2tW0A shot like this would be next to impossible on a console game.
There is also the element of console FPS having aim assist, and other 'helpful' elements - hitboxes ect.
No pro gamers use only M/KB - why dont PC pro gamers use pads? Hmmmm?

10. If the KB/M wasent designed for gaming its would have been abandonded for pads over a decade ago.
Its still the primary controller for PC gaming - and console gamers want its support. What does this mean?
Its still one of the best gaming controllers. Its not perfect - but neither is a pad, or wiimote.

muscrat_01

1. Wheel mouse does not replace analog movement. Do you even know what analog is?
2. Who said anything about Halo? I hate the way Halo handles grenades. But holding down the key to throw it farther? How could any sane person argue that that is better?
3. YES, pulling a trigger is more realistic because guns have triggers. Yes using a Gun controller is more realistic because it's more like a gun. Are you on drugs or something because you are not helping yourself here.
4. And controller are still healthier so again you fail to make a valid point.
5. So what? Do you have a FF mouse? No? Exactly.
6. Your worthless opinions and no facts.
7. Your worthless opinion and no facts, again.
   
8. Are you drunk or something? It's never been mandatory. In fact is still isn't really manditory. Nobody says a developer has to follow the Games for Windows brand and have controller support.
9. Profressional gamers also game on pads. If the K+M was so god damn great, how come arcade machines don't have them? You need a reality check.
10. Again, you need a reality check. The K+M was not designed for gaming: EVER. That is a fact. Face reality.
    

Lol. This thread is so funny.

In general:

Gamepad best for driving, sports and platformers.

KB + M best for shooters, strategy. MMO's.

For those of you are deluded into thinking the gamepad is best for shooting answer the following:

How many pro CS/Quake gamers use a gamepad?

Can you imagine a pro team like Four Kings turning up to the next tourney with gamepads! ROFL

lazerluke

1: That there isn't just two speeds.

2: It isn't called a analog trigger, so I thought it you meant the analog stick button.

3: I can tap my mouse key. And plently Pc fps have adjustable fire modes.

4: You were talking about precision, not about how much of it you need.

5: Um, okay?

6: ^^.

7: So basicly, you like handicapping yourself?

8: See 5.

9: See 5 again.

10: Still works for the genres it does best.

Stabby2486

[QUOTE="Stabby2486"]

10: Still works for the genres it does best.ginazswordsman

That looks like a point to me.

Ok, look. It all depends what format you like better. But then consoles now have the best of both worlds.

Sony released a keyboard and mouse attachment for the PS3, and it ALSO WORKS WITH THE 360! So now, PC gamers can't bash us, because if we wanted that particular control scheme, we could have it! Just like they could could have the new wireless 360 controller for Windows. Muahahaha.

I also think it is very strange how mouses make people look like they have super human reactions...

Just for the record, I prefer a console controller.

You don't get it. In real life people don't have two speeds of movement. With the K+M you can only Run and Walk. That's inferior to analog control. WADS is garbage and is not designed for the human hand. WADS is not erogomic and it is unhealthy. Face reality.ginazswordsman

And you don't get that in the real world, aiming a gun doesn't have speed limitations of a controller.  Aiming a controller is only as fast as it is programmed for, and the fast you set the speed of a controller, the more accuracy you lose.  Aiming with a controller is like having epilispsy, not real at all.

You also don't get that looking around is sort of a guessing game with a controller, unlike a mouse in which you can actually look around percisely and at the speed you want, unilke a controller that has speed limitations and far inferior precision.

Your point of run and walk is valid, but in FPS is the least important of Aiming/Looking/Running and Walking.

And face it, controllers also suffer from the same unhealthy erogomic conditions, just not as bad.  But again, you would have to be a gaming attic to suffer from these conditions.  Time to get a life!!!

Yes, not having analog control is a bad thing. In real life when you throw a grenade you can throw it hard or soft, fast or slow. With the K+M you are limited to throwing by how long you hold down the key which is stupid and unrealistic and I hate it when console games handle grenades the same way because it's a waste of the analog controlginazswordsman

I agree with you to a point.  Yes, not having analog control can limit realism on throwing grenades, though throwing grenades happens far less than shooting, thus not that significant.

Yes, in real life guns have triggers, just like the triggers on a controller. Does the K+M have analog triggers? No they do not.ginazswordsman

This is a strawman, complaining about a trigger is quite riduculous.  I can say your controller looks nothing like a gun, weigh's nothing like a gun, looks nothing like a gun.  Get over it, your playing with a controller that reminds anyone that they are not playing with a gun, except you have a trigger.  If you can imaging after all that that your controller that looks nothing like a gun, your imagination sure as well can imagine that your mouse is a gun. 

Analog control allows you have superior levels of precision since you can dynamically change how fast you move, shoot and aim all at the same time instead of just dynamically aiming on a PC. Besides I'm not sure if you've noticed by all the actions in a FPS can be easily mapped to a controller.ginazswordsman

This is fatally wrong,  yes you can creep at different speeds, but your again looking at the unrealistic goal of a FPS, and that is to kill before you get killed.  KB/M has a much more accurate movement since the speed of the mouse is controlled exactly on your hand movement, meaning that you can control turning much more percise and aim much more percise.  That is much more important than creep speed in a FPS.

Just because you hands feel perfectly fine doesn't mean it's healthy. There's a reason why companies sell erogonic keyboards.ginazswordsman

Weak again, but you do have some validity.  Although you can't look me in the eye and say a long bout of a FPS doesn't stress your hands with a controller also.  KB/M might have a more serious problem than a controller, but the controller also suffers from this.

I don't see anyone uses them.ginazswordsman

Yes, rumble is nice, especially when getting hit.  A definate plus for the 360 controller.

RTS I can agree with you but you have got to be joking with racing sims. No analog breaking and acceleration with a K+M so you have got to be kidding me. MMORGP and WRPG is a matter of opinon.ginazswordsman

Please, a race wheel which is readily available for both console and PC owns both KB/M and controller.  Only reason

But it was never manditory until now.ginazswordsman

And what's the point here?  Again, why would a PC gamer choose a controller over a KB/M.  I'm sure if you did a poll, the vast majority don't ever think of using a controller when KB/M is a better control method in FPS.  That's why after 20 or so years, PC gamers still choose KB/M over controller.

I'd respect them more as gamers if they could show that they were excellent players at multiple types of games and not just one type of game.ginazswordsman

As I have mentioned before, a controller is completely horrible for RTS, Sim's, Strategy games.  And a controller is also worse for FPS/TPS.  The fellow before ended this thread with the comment that PC FPS have been around for a couple of decades, so has controllers for PC's have been around roughly that long, and yet, people who play FPS still play with KB/M combo.  That's for a reason, because it functionality in FPS works better.  The controller has some benifits, but the pro's of a KB/M simply outweigh the controllers benifits.

Opinion. It has advantages in a FEW types of games. Face reality, the K+M was never designed for gaming and it CLEARLY shows.

ginazswordsman

This is complete rubbish in an otherwise decent response.  KB/M has many uses in games and different types of games.  It was designed for PC games which includes FPS, and it completely succeeds in many genre of games.

Keep this rather childish respose out, and maybe people will take your seriously.