On the subject of UT3 and KB&M vs. Controller.

Here's another quote that I like from the article (I have this issue and anyone with more questions may ask for additional details): Jim Brown says, "There's no benefit to keyboard that everybody thinks is there. That whole thing has evolved" ;)dlind70

Yes, there is no benefit from using a keyboard. Pressing 4 keys to move is a negligible difference then tilting a stick.

Using a mouse however, has a big difference compared to a controller though. Much more accurate and able to turn 360 degrees much quicker then a controller.

The mouse (Along with the keyboard, obviously) is superior to the gamepad for FPS. Anyone who thinks otherwise should not be taken seriously. 

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="killab2oo5"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]You said it yourself, KBM is technically more superiro than a controller. The only way that a controller would ever win is if they instituted some kind of check. Either that, or the KBM guy was sitting on his ** or was bad.killab2oo5

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

Educated_Gamer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

Rofl console Controls havnt changed abit mate, that further proves it, the slow turning, the only way to get headshots is to keep the actually aiming analog stick at head level then strafe and shoot... thats it ... thats not new, its slow, and it wont save you in Unreal tournement speed at all.

Unreal tournement requires you to jump/strafe jump like mad and quickly turn even the opposite direction and be able to fire with in a second not to be completely owned...  

[QUOTE="killab2oo5"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="killab2oo5"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]You said it yourself, KBM is technically more superiro than a controller. The only way that a controller would ever win is if they instituted some kind of check. Either that, or the KBM guy was sitting on his ** or was bad.Vandalvideo

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/13602/Epic-UT3-is-Gears-on-Crack-Cover-is-for-Wimps/

The fact still remains that KB&M is more accurate. however for a game like UT3 it really DOESNT MATTER.

heres an example. taken from that Cover is for Wimps article.

The latest issue of OXM features a six-page article on Unreal Tournament 3. More important, the preview contains the first details regarding the Xbox 360 version of the game, which both the developers and the magazine editors confirmed it is looking in its current state better than Gears of War.

In the preview, Epic Games' Steven Polge, the lead designer of Unreal Tournament 3, confirms that the Xbox 360 version of the game will support four-player co-op and two-player split-screen in the single-player campaign, which will let you take different paths depending on the decisions you take.

The preview also revealed that Unreal Tournament 3 will feature 18 vehicles and 5 types of turrets. Epic also promises "zero-time to spectacle" thanks to the hoverboard.

Regarding the controls, Polge revealed that they are so good that half the people who work on the game prefer to play the Xbox 360 version. Furthermore, the guy responsible for the controls has stepped in playtest sessions, where everyone was on keyboards, and with a controller he kicked everyone's butt.

Jerry O'Flaherty, the art director for both games, says that "Gears if a more confined game. UT is about big, huge distances. The speed of UT is so quick; it's not a walking environment, it's a running or flying environment."

Finally, Polge chipped into the discussion saying: "It's Gears on crack. Cover is for wimps!"

 

in conclusion. KB&M vs controller argument shouldnt be used in games that arent built around acuracy like CS. the controller is just as good for UT3.

A-LEGEND

UT3 is built around accuracy and EXTREMELY fast paced play and movement. Honestly, I really doubt this article. I don't care which one you prefer, but M/KB is faster and more accurate than a analog stick, there just is no way around it, I'm sorry. 

 Try hitting the dot to the right with a controller and see how long it takes (if you can even hit it that is):lol::         .

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

A-LEGEND

How is it "moot" in UT3, where accuracy and speed are NEEDED if you want to do well.......

[QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

trix5817

How is it "moot" in UT3, where accuracy and speed are NEEDED if you want to do well.......

That article doesnt take into account that the guy with the controller has been practicing and fine tuning non-stop, and probably generally a better player because of it. 

[QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

Meu2k7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

Rofl console Controls havnt changed abit mate, that further proves it, the slow turning, the only way to get headshots is to keep the actually aiming analog stick at head level then strafe and shoot... thats it ... thats not new, its slow, and it wont save you in Unreal tournement speed at all. 

 What the hell have videos of UT 2004 and PDZ got to do with anything?!! We're talking about UT3 here. Unless you can link me some vids of people playing UT3 with a 360 controller then stop linking vids that have nothing to do with the topic. Not all console FPS control the same, at least wait and play UT3 on a 360 pad before trying to dismiss it.

[QUOTE="Mystikef"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Mystikef"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]You said it yourself, KBM is technically more superiro than a controller. The only way that a controller would ever win is if they instituted some kind of check. Either that, or the KBM guy was sitting on his ** or was bad.Vandalvideo

There was a big showdown once with Halo: CE, one player on K/M and the other on the Xbox controller.  Both were considered pros, and no special modifications were made to accomodate the controller.

The controller guy won.  Aiming might be more accurate on a K/m in general....  but someone who is great with a controller can keep up.  Movement, however, is much more accurate on a controller.  256 speeds of movement in 256 different directions.

All I am saying is the K/M vs. Controller is debatable.  Everyone assumes a K/M player will always dominate.  I disagree.  I think the K/M is easier to get good with quicker, but someone who has spent a lot of time with a particular controller can easily match a good K/M player.  Both have advantages and disadvantages, but one does not overpower the other.

You need to get one thing straight - easier does not mean better.  The K/M is EASIER, but it is not more neccisarily more accurate.  Someone who is great with a controller can have the exact same accuracy. It's just harder to get that good.  But we are only talking about aiming...  because the K/M has a big flaw:  Movement.

A controller has 256 speeds of movement in 256 different directions.  A K/M usually has 2 speeds of movement in 8 directions. In a game like Halo, for example.  Movement and your ability to quickly outstep, duck behind cover, and manuever the landscape is just as important as aiming.  People, especially PC gamers, tend to foget about this very important fact.  Movement with a controller more accurate... and that can make a big differenc in a game.

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

Educated_Gamer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ 

big deal 

lol @ that vid. Its like everyone is wearing lead boots.

[QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

NutJobJim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

Rofl console Controls havnt changed abit mate, that further proves it, the slow turning, the only way to get headshots is to keep the actually aiming analog stick at head level then strafe and shoot... thats it ... thats not new, its slow, and it wont save you in Unreal tournement speed at all.

What the hell have videos of UT 2004 and PDZ got to do with anything?!! We're talking about UT3 here. Unless you can link me some vids of people playing UT3 with a 360 controller then stop linking vids that have nothing to do with the topic. Not all console FPS control the same, at least wait and play UT3 on a 360 pad before trying to dismiss it.

Did I post a video? No, did I explain the difference? Yes.

In order to get UT3 on Xbox360 controllers equal something was done, I gaurentee you that if its soomething like the senstivity is turned up incredibly it will be hard to gain control of at first for anyone using a pad. 

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

Educated_Gamer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

You just proved his point bud. Look how much slower that was compared to UT04. Look how the aiming reticle wasn't moving around NEARLY as fast and as crazy as it was in UT04. Nice job! 

[QUOTE="muscleserge"]anyone who thinks that an anologe stick can compete with a mouse, with out any kind of aim assist is a fool. Denying that fact is stupidity. Why don't we wait for the game to come out and see.Educated_Gamer

They can compete but a mouse has a slight advantage (but the keyboard will slow you down a bit).

ANd what do you mean, its not cross platform

How would the KB slow you down? Please explain?  

[QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

NutJobJim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

Rofl console Controls havnt changed abit mate, that further proves it, the slow turning, the only way to get headshots is to keep the actually aiming analog stick at head level then strafe and shoot... thats it ... thats not new, its slow, and it wont save you in Unreal tournement speed at all.

What the hell have videos of UT 2004 and PDZ got to do with anything?!! We're talking about UT3 here. Unless you can link me some vids of people playing UT3 with a 360 controller then stop linking vids that have nothing to do with the topic. Not all console FPS control the same, at least wait and play UT3 on a 360 pad before trying to dismiss it.

Because UT3 is the successor to UT04.....that's why. Most likely, it will be paced the same, unless they tried to dumb it down and make it slower for controllers.  

Mystikef: Only someone who has no idea how tracing for joysticks and mice work could ever say that joysticks are as accurate as mice. What you see on your screen is made up of millions of pixels. A mouse's ability to read the pixels in a set ammount of space is called DPI. The higher the DPI, the more precise the device will be. While controllers don't work entirely off DPI, the average controller is the equivalent of 320 DPI. My mouse, however, has over 200DPI. Thats over 4 times more accurate than your average controller's joystick. As far as precision is concerned, mice and much more superior.Vandalvideo

I PC game, as well, though I do prefer controllers.  I get that AIMING can be easier, and let's even say. more accurate with a Mouse.

But then there is movement.  Are you trying to say that 2 speeds of movement in 8 directions is more accurate than 256 speeds in 256 directions?  Do you want to do the math on that one and see how many more times accurate movement is?  I don't know what games you play...  but movement is s eriously important part of doing well in every FPS I have ever played.  If you can slip around a corner faster, or sneak behind someone and clobber them...  you have a damn good chances of beating someone who is clunky with movement but better at aiming.  Movement is by far INFERIOR on a KB/M.  Aiming is SUPERIOR.  So I'd call it a draw...  or at the least... debatable.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Mystikef: Only someone who has no idea how tracing for joysticks and mice work could ever say that joysticks are as accurate as mice. What you see on your screen is made up of millions of pixels. A mouse's ability to read the pixels in a set ammount of space is called DPI. The higher the DPI, the more precise the device will be. While controllers don't work entirely off DPI, the average controller is the equivalent of 320 DPI. My mouse, however, has over 200DPI. Thats over 4 times more accurate than your average controller's joystick. As far as precision is concerned, mice and much more superior.Mystikef

I PC game, as well, though I do prefer controllers. I get that AIMING can be easier, and let's even say. more accurate with a Mouse.

But then there is movement. Are you trying to say that 2 speeds of movement in 8 directions is more accurate than 256 speeds in 256 directions? Do you want to do the math on that one and see how many more times accurate movement is? I don't know what games you play... but movement is s eriously important part of doing well in every FPS I have ever played. If you can slip around a corner faster, or sneak behind someone and clobber them... you have a damn good chances of beating someone who is clunky with movement but better at aiming. Movement is by far INFERIOR on a KB/M. Aiming is SUPERIOR. So I'd call it a draw... or at the least... debatable.

(if you didnt know)

you tap the WASD keys to get the same exact effect....and where did you get 256 by 256.....that is way to high..... 

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Mystikef: Only someone who has no idea how tracing for joysticks and mice work could ever say that joysticks are as accurate as mice. What you see on your screen is made up of millions of pixels. A mouse's ability to read the pixels in a set ammount of space is called DPI. The higher the DPI, the more precise the device will be. While controllers don't work entirely off DPI, the average controller is the equivalent of 320 DPI. My mouse, however, has over 200DPI. Thats over 4 times more accurate than your average controller's joystick. As far as precision is concerned, mice and much more superior.Mystikef

I PC game, as well, though I do prefer controllers.  I get that AIMING can be easier, and let's even say. more accurate with a Mouse.

But then there is movement.  Are you trying to say that 2 speeds of movement in 8 directions is more accurate than 256 speeds in 256 directions?  Do you want to do the math on that one and see how many more times accurate movement is?  I don't know what games you play...  but movement is s eriously important part of doing well in every FPS I have ever played.  If you can slip around a corner faster, or sneak behind someone and clobber them...  you have a damn good chances of beating someone who is clunky with movement but better at aiming.  Movement is by far INFERIOR on a KB/M.  Aiming is SUPERIOR.  So I'd call it a draw...  or at the least... debatable.

[QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="NutJobJim"][QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

NutJobJim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

Rofl console Controls havnt changed abit mate, that further proves it, the slow turning, the only way to get headshots is to keep the actually aiming analog stick at head level then strafe and shoot... thats it ... thats not new, its slow, and it wont save you in Unreal tournement speed at all.

What the hell have videos of UT 2004 and PDZ got to do with anything?!! We're talking about UT3 here. Unless you can link me some vids of people playing UT3 with a 360 controller then stop linking vids that have nothing to do with the topic. Not all console FPS control the same, at least wait and play UT3 on a 360 pad before trying to dismiss it.

Did I post a video? No, did I explain the difference? Yes.

In order to get UT3 on Xbox360 controllers equal something was done, I gaurentee you that if its soomething like the senstivity is turned up incredibly it will be hard to gain control of at first for anyone using a pad.

SO? The point of the thread should be that UT3 will play well on the consoles. I'm not trying to argue about KB&M vs Controllers because that is pointless and stupid (as you can see from my other replies.) Fact is that, from what we've heard so far, UT3 controls really well on the 360 pad and works a LOT better than Hermits were saying that it would. Some arrogant PC gamers tried to dismiss UT3 on consoles saying it will play rubbish, and be completely worthless, it seems as though they were wrong. If you own a great PC then clearly UT3 will be better on that BUT the console versions will still play well, and still be great games to play and that's what's important here, that both versions of the game play extremely well.

Hermits havnt said it was bad, I never said it would be bad anyway, but you know this NEW contest we have going? PC online vs Xbox Online? this will be up for debate for a long time, better get use to it.

Just look at the speed on PDZ, its nothing compare to aiming/movement ratio speed as the KB/M thats simple fact, you can never be as accurate.

Two Thumbs that have to reverse theier movement to stop turning is nothing compared to the very subtle move in any direction the mouse takes, nor the click of a fireing mouse button tapping it.

WASD works just as well for most games as the analog, trust me on this, I thought driving games would be hard on the PC but turns out thier pretty easy, and the GTA series ... well the game was challangeless o nthe PC because there were no aiming/movement issues. 

[QUOTE="Mystikef"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Mystikef: Only someone who has no idea how tracing for joysticks and mice work could ever say that joysticks are as accurate as mice. What you see on your screen is made up of millions of pixels. A mouse's ability to read the pixels in a set ammount of space is called DPI. The higher the DPI, the more precise the device will be. While controllers don't work entirely off DPI, the average controller is the equivalent of 320 DPI. My mouse, however, has over 200DPI. Thats over 4 times more accurate than your average controller's joystick. As far as precision is concerned, mice and much more superior.cobrax75

I PC game, as well, though I do prefer controllers. I get that AIMING can be easier, and let's even say. more accurate with a Mouse.

But then there is movement. Are you trying to say that 2 speeds of movement in 8 directions is more accurate than 256 speeds in 256 directions? Do you want to do the math on that one and see how many more times accurate movement is? I don't know what games you play... but movement is s eriously important part of doing well in every FPS I have ever played. If you can slip around a corner faster, or sneak behind someone and clobber them... you have a damn good chances of beating someone who is clunky with movement but better at aiming. Movement is by far INFERIOR on a KB/M. Aiming is SUPERIOR. So I'd call it a draw... or at the least... debatable.

(if you didnt know)

you tap the WASD keys to get the same exact effect....and where did you get 256 by 256.....that is way to high.....

Yeah, that's what I want to know too 

uh yea, posting that PDZ vid pretty much proves the point. God, that was like watching snails.

battle of KBM, controllers, UT, and uh youtube?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQErlSgA7rM

controller, what? wait that guy must be using a bot! 

[QUOTE="NutJobJim"][QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

trix5817

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

Rofl console Controls havnt changed abit mate, that further proves it, the slow turning, the only way to get headshots is to keep the actually aiming analog stick at head level then strafe and shoot... thats it ... thats not new, its slow, and it wont save you in Unreal tournement speed at all.

What the hell have videos of UT 2004 and PDZ got to do with anything?!! We're talking about UT3 here. Unless you can link me some vids of people playing UT3 with a 360 controller then stop linking vids that have nothing to do with the topic. Not all console FPS control the same, at least wait and play UT3 on a 360 pad before trying to dismiss it.

Because UT3 is the successor to UT04.....that's why. Most likely, it will be paced the same, unless they tried to dumb it down and make it slower for controllers.  

Yeah but the fact is that you haven't seen anybody playing UT3 with a controller. You can guess and make assumptions based on 3 year old PC game or you can listen to somebody that has actually played UT3 with a controller. Until to see someone playing it, or play it yourself your just playing guessing game. And linking Youtube videos of UT04 says absolutely nothing about UT3 on consoles. It would be like me linking videos of Mario Sunshine and saying that it reflects the ganmeplay experience to be found in Mario Galaxy. Different systems, different control inputs, but most importantly DIFFERENT GAMES.

[QUOTE="Mystikef"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]Mystikef: Only someone who has no idea how tracing for joysticks and mice work could ever say that joysticks are as accurate as mice. What you see on your screen is made up of millions of pixels. A mouse's ability to read the pixels in a set ammount of space is called DPI. The higher the DPI, the more precise the device will be. While controllers don't work entirely off DPI, the average controller is the equivalent of 320 DPI. My mouse, however, has over 200DPI. Thats over 4 times more accurate than your average controller's joystick. As far as precision is concerned, mice and much more superior.cobrax75

I PC game, as well, though I do prefer controllers. I get that AIMING can be easier, and let's even say. more accurate with a Mouse.

But then there is movement. Are you trying to say that 2 speeds of movement in 8 directions is more accurate than 256 speeds in 256 directions? Do you want to do the math on that one and see how many more times accurate movement is? I don't know what games you play... but movement is s eriously important part of doing well in every FPS I have ever played. If you can slip around a corner faster, or sneak behind someone and clobber them... you have a damn good chances of beating someone who is clunky with movement but better at aiming. Movement is by far INFERIOR on a KB/M. Aiming is SUPERIOR. So I'd call it a draw... or at the least... debatable.

(if you didnt know)

you tap the WASD keys to get the same exact effect....and where did you get 256 by 256.....that is way to high..... 

It's not the same effect.  A controller user could out-manuever a k/m user and the k/m user could probably out-aim the controller guy.  Controllers that have full range moevment (like any modern controller are 256 analog sticks. It registers 256 directions and it also registers 256 positions from center.  The analog triggers on a 360 also register 256 degrees of movement in a single direction, of course.

If you are a hardcore PC gamer, you will argue the K/m argument till the day you die.  But it is a debatable argument.  Really, in the end, it's a preference. I occasionally use a controller for PC gaming... usually I don't.  Depends on the game.

You could go on all day about how pixel-precise a mouse is...  but how often do you really need to be accurate to the pixel?  Sniping a mile away, maybe.  But usually the targets I am aiming at are close enough that there are thousands of pixels to aim at.  I don't need to hit a particular pixel.

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="NutJobJim"][QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

NutJobJim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

Rofl console Controls havnt changed abit mate, that further proves it, the slow turning, the only way to get headshots is to keep the actually aiming analog stick at head level then strafe and shoot... thats it ... thats not new, its slow, and it wont save you in Unreal tournement speed at all.

What the hell have videos of UT 2004 and PDZ got to do with anything?!! We're talking about UT3 here. Unless you can link me some vids of people playing UT3 with a 360 controller then stop linking vids that have nothing to do with the topic. Not all console FPS control the same, at least wait and play UT3 on a 360 pad before trying to dismiss it.

Because UT3 is the successor to UT04.....that's why. Most likely, it will be paced the same, unless they tried to dumb it down and make it slower for controllers.

Yeah but the fact is that you haven't seen anybody playing UT3 with a controller. You can guess and make assumptions based on 3 year old PC game or you can listen to somebody that has actually played UT3 with a controller. Until to see someone playing it, or play it yourself your just playing guessing game. And linking Youtube videos of UT04 says absolutely nothing about UT3 on consoles. It would be like me linking videos of Mario Sunshine and saying that it reflects the ganmeplay experience to be found in Mario Galaxy. Different systems, different control inputs, but most importantly DIFFERENT GAMES.

So you have to believe this article because one person said it? Do you not know that EPIC are M$ **** atm?

Within the last 2 months:

"PC Gaming is Dying" & "UT3 wont be maxed on PCs in current new hardware, Xbox360 maxed" & now "Controller beats KB/Mouse"

Yes ... all within a very short period of time, all 3 things contradict the reality, and to top it off Your Source is one of the most freaking fanboyish 360 sites in existance.

Well if UT3 comes with a few lines of cocaine to use so you can move that fast and be that accurate with a controller without any kind of crap autoaim....then yea, posting ut2k4 vids shows nothing.

I doubt UT3 does tho. Quit trying to pretend that its some huge epic controller scheme invention that is so revolutionary that no one can even imagine what its like. If it's just that great, I look forward to them announcing that UT3 console & PC players will be able to bash it out on the same servers.

Vandalvideo:

I may actually be wrong about the 256x256 movement.  It might be GREATER than that thanks to potentiameters that can determine the exact angle and direction of an analog thumbstick. I thought they still used 8-bit input for these sticks (256), but I can't seem to find any reference for it.  What I have found tends to describe it like it is infinite...  though I know it is not infite.  Maybe it is 16 bit now... that would make it seem like it was infinite.

I may hang with some developers this weekend.  They develop for the 360 (and other consoles).  They'd know for sure.

[QUOTE="NutJobJim"][QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="NutJobJim"][QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

Meu2k7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

Rofl console Controls havnt changed abit mate, that further proves it, the slow turning, the only way to get headshots is to keep the actually aiming analog stick at head level then strafe and shoot... thats it ... thats not new, its slow, and it wont save you in Unreal tournement speed at all.

What the hell have videos of UT 2004 and PDZ got to do with anything?!! We're talking about UT3 here. Unless you can link me some vids of people playing UT3 with a 360 controller then stop linking vids that have nothing to do with the topic. Not all console FPS control the same, at least wait and play UT3 on a 360 pad before trying to dismiss it.

Did I post a video? No, did I explain the difference? Yes.

In order to get UT3 on Xbox360 controllers equal something was done, I gaurentee you that if its soomething like the senstivity is turned up incredibly it will be hard to gain control of at first for anyone using a pad.

SO? The point of the thread should be that UT3 will play well on the consoles. I'm not trying to argue about KB&M vs Controllers because that is pointless and stupid (as you can see from my other replies.) Fact is that, from what we've heard so far, UT3 controls really well on the 360 pad and works a LOT better than Hermits were saying that it would. Some arrogant PC gamers tried to dismiss UT3 on consoles saying it will play rubbish, and be completely worthless, it seems as though they were wrong. If you own a great PC then clearly UT3 will be better on that BUT the console versions will still play well, and still be great games to play and that's what's important here, that both versions of the game play extremely well.

Hermits havnt said it was bad, I never said it would be bad anyway, but you know this NEW contest we have going? PC online vs Xbox Online? this will be up for debate for a long time, better get use to it.

Just look at the speed on PDZ, its nothing compare to aiming/movement ratio speed as the KB/M thats simple fact, you can never be as accurate.

Two Thumbs that have to reverse theier movement to stop turning is nothing compared to the very subtle move in any direction the mouse takes, nor the click of a fireing mouse button tapping it.

WASD works just as well for most games as the analog, trust me on this, I thought driving games would be hard on the PC but turns out thier pretty easy, and the GTA series ... well the game was challangeless o nthe PC because there were no aiming/movement issues. 

I'm done arguing with you. I'm not sure if English isn't your first language, or if you just skim read my posts, but we are talking about UT3 on consoles here. You start babbling on about PDZ which has nothing to do with UT3 (different game, different gameplay speed etc.) then you go back to arguing about what's more accurate KB&M or a controller which I've already said I'm not arguing with you about. I already said I know KB&M is more accurate and faster (read my posts.) My point is that UT3 will play great on consoles (not better) and that both the PC and console games will probably be worthy AAA gameplay experiences, because of that Hermits (I never once said you specifically) have no right to dismiss the console version of the game. If you're going to reply to this post read this, and my previous posts properly before doing so because I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall arguing with you.

[QUOTE="NutJobJim"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="NutJobJim"][QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

Meu2k7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

Rofl console Controls havnt changed abit mate, that further proves it, the slow turning, the only way to get headshots is to keep the actually aiming analog stick at head level then strafe and shoot... thats it ... thats not new, its slow, and it wont save you in Unreal tournement speed at all.

What the hell have videos of UT 2004 and PDZ got to do with anything?!! We're talking about UT3 here. Unless you can link me some vids of people playing UT3 with a 360 controller then stop linking vids that have nothing to do with the topic. Not all console FPS control the same, at least wait and play UT3 on a 360 pad before trying to dismiss it.

Because UT3 is the successor to UT04.....that's why. Most likely, it will be paced the same, unless they tried to dumb it down and make it slower for controllers.

Yeah but the fact is that you haven't seen anybody playing UT3 with a controller. You can guess and make assumptions based on 3 year old PC game or you can listen to somebody that has actually played UT3 with a controller. Until to see someone playing it, or play it yourself your just playing guessing game. And linking Youtube videos of UT04 says absolutely nothing about UT3 on consoles. It would be like me linking videos of Mario Sunshine and saying that it reflects the ganmeplay experience to be found in Mario Galaxy. Different systems, different control inputs, but most importantly DIFFERENT GAMES.

So you have to believe this article because one person said it? Do you not know that EPIC are M$ **** atm?

Within the last 2 months:

"PC Gaming is Dying" & "UT3 wont be maxed on PCs in current new hardware, Xbox360 maxed" & now "Controller beats KB/Mouse"

Yes ... all within a very short period of time, all 3 things contradict the reality, and to top it off Your Source is one of the most freaking fanboyish 360 sites in existance.

I'm not saying you have to 100% believe the article. Most people would read the article, acknowledge the possible credibility of the source, and say 'well that's good news if true, can't wait to try it out for myself and judge it then' not trying to use videos of UT04 (I know that wasn't you) or trying to post gameplay videos of PDZ to prove the article wrong. Don't judge until you play yourself, or see vids of someone playing.

You need to get one thing straight - easier does not mean better.  The K/M is EASIER, but it is not more neccisarily more accurate.  Someone who is great with a controller can have the exact same accuracy. It's just harder to get that good.  But we are only talking about aiming...  because the K/M has a big flaw:  Movement.

A controller has 256 speeds of movement in 256 different directions.  A K/M usually has 2 speeds of movement in 8 directions. In a game like Halo, for example.  Movement and your ability to quickly outstep, duck behind cover, and manuever the landscape is just as important as aiming.  People, especially PC gamers, tend to foget about this very important fact.  Movement with a controller more accurate... and that can make a big differenc in a game.

Mystikef

That said, I can see how the KB/M vs. Controller debate is balanced out here in UT3. Unlike in other FPS's, UT3 will have much larger open environments. In these kinds of environments, it's not enough to be able to aim at a moment's notice. You also have to stay on course and get in range. And these environments can have obstacles in them, such as narrow twisting paths and crumbling paths, etc. Controller experts can navigate these obstacles at speed. KB/M doesn't have this luxury with only four movemenr keys and at best two speeds--not good if the path takes on oblique angles. There's also the issue of vehicles, where you may need to both drive and aim at the same time--a job that pretty much calls for two analog controls--KB/M users only have one: the mouse. It is here that the balancing takes place. KB/M is better for aiming, but controllers are better for moving. 

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="NutJobJim"][QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

NutJobJim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

Rofl console Controls havnt changed abit mate, that further proves it, the slow turning, the only way to get headshots is to keep the actually aiming analog stick at head level then strafe and shoot... thats it ... thats not new, its slow, and it wont save you in Unreal tournement speed at all.

What the hell have videos of UT 2004 and PDZ got to do with anything?!! We're talking about UT3 here. Unless you can link me some vids of people playing UT3 with a 360 controller then stop linking vids that have nothing to do with the topic. Not all console FPS control the same, at least wait and play UT3 on a 360 pad before trying to dismiss it.

Because UT3 is the successor to UT04.....that's why. Most likely, it will be paced the same, unless they tried to dumb it down and make it slower for controllers.

Yeah but the fact is that you haven't seen anybody playing UT3 with a controller. You can guess and make assumptions based on 3 year old PC game or you can listen to somebody that has actually played UT3 with a controller. Until to see someone playing it, or play it yourself your just playing guessing game. And linking Youtube videos of UT04 says absolutely nothing about UT3 on consoles. It would be like me linking videos of Mario Sunshine and saying that it reflects the ganmeplay experience to be found in Mario Galaxy. Different systems, different control inputs, but most importantly DIFFERENT GAMES.

The vid was posted to show that UT is an EXTEMELY fast-paced game where accurate, precise, and FAST mouse movement is NECESSARY to do well. Then the guy linked a vid of a console game, and you could tell the player was using a controller, because movement speed of the aiming reticule was very slow, it wasn't very accurate, and the guy had set his aiming reticule at a certain height to get head shots, then just strafe shoot (you really don't see this in PC FPS). Hell, even I do that when I play console FPS. And no, UT3 is NOT a totally different game than UT04. I don't know where you heard this from. It's UT04's successor. Do you really think their going ot change it's award winning gameplay? I don't think so. UT3 used to becalled UT07. I don't think you've played many PC UT games, have you?.........

You should be much more concise when trying to convey your point, because

"KB&M vs controller argument shouldnt be used in games that arent built around acuracy like CS. the controller is just as good for UT3."

 That really looks like a spark for a KBM v controller argument for me. 

WASD is horribly outdated too. Yeesh. Get with the times! 

doesnt really matter because im getting the 360 version and i'll be playing my butt off,while fanboys will still be here crying about which version is better.lol

 

jessesalinas

Exactly. 

[QUOTE="jessesalinas"]

doesnt really matter because im getting the 360 version and i'll be playing my butt off,while fanboys will still be here crying about which version is better.lol

I want to Ninja your sig.

 

Drukter

Exactly.

HAte... thes boards, anyways im ninjaring your sig, thanks. 

[QUOTE="dlind70"]Here's another quote that I like from the article (I have this issue and anyone with more questions may ask for additional details): Jim Brown says, "There's no benefit to keyboard that everybody thinks is there. That whole thing has evolved" ;)hamumu

Yes, there is no benefit from using a keyboard. Pressing 4 keys to move is a negligible difference then tilting a stick.

Using a mouse however, has a big difference compared to a controller though. Much more accurate and able to turn 360 degrees much quicker then a controller.

The mouse (Along with the keyboard, obviously) is superior to the gamepad for FPS. Anyone who thinks otherwise should not be taken seriously. 

nice but i still say the keyboard owns, 4 keys for movement, and 97 FOR EVERYTHING ELSE.

if you would like to guarantee success in the UT series (especially ut2k4), you need to bind your weapons directly. Nothing owns someones face faster than a lightning gun hit, then mopping up with a chaingun.

[QUOTE="NutJobJim"][QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="NutJobJim"][QUOTE="Meu2k7"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="Educated_Gamer"][QUOTE="Stabby2486"][QUOTE="A-LEGEND"]

TWO THINGS:

1. i already mentioned that KB&M is more accurate (but moot in UT3)

2. stop making up excuses. like "it was gimped" or "auto aim"

trix5817

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itxBgzQ7T98

Playing UT with a controller is like playing RTS with a controller.

It works way better than youd think?

I dont get hermits. I think you guys are stuck in the ps1 era where aiming sucked ass

and your point? check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkyfVepaZMQ

big deal

Rofl console Controls havnt changed abit mate, that further proves it, the slow turning, the only way to get headshots is to keep the actually aiming analog stick at head level then strafe and shoot... thats it ... thats not new, its slow, and it wont save you in Unreal tournement speed at all.

What the hell have videos of UT 2004 and PDZ got to do with anything?!! We're talking about UT3 here. Unless you can link me some vids of people playing UT3 with a 360 controller then stop linking vids that have nothing to do with the topic. Not all console FPS control the same, at least wait and play UT3 on a 360 pad before trying to dismiss it.

Because UT3 is the successor to UT04.....that's why. Most likely, it will be paced the same, unless they tried to dumb it down and make it slower for controllers.

Yeah but the fact is that you haven't seen anybody playing UT3 with a controller. You can guess and make assumptions based on 3 year old PC game or you can listen to somebody that has actually played UT3 with a controller. Until to see someone playing it, or play it yourself your just playing guessing game. And linking Youtube videos of UT04 says absolutely nothing about UT3 on consoles. It would be like me linking videos of Mario Sunshine and saying that it reflects the ganmeplay experience to be found in Mario Galaxy. Different systems, different control inputs, but most importantly DIFFERENT GAMES.

The vid was posted to show that UT is an EXTEMELY fast-paced game where accurate, precise, and FAST mouse movement is NECESSARY to do well. Then the guy linked a vid of a console game, and you could tell the player was using a controller, because movement speed of the aiming reticule was very slow, it wasn't very accurate, and the guy had set his aiming reticule at a certain height to get head shots, then just strafe shoot (you really don't see this in PC FPS). Hell, even I do that when I play console FPS. And no, UT3 is NOT a totally different game than UT04. I don't know where you heard this from. It's UT04's successor. Do you really think their going ot change it's award winning gameplay? I don't think so. UT3 used to becalled UT07. I don't think you've played many PC UT games, have you?.........

I've played UT04 on PC (I own it) I've also played PDZ on 360 (have you?) PDZ is known for having poor controls and is a very slow paced game so saying that this game represents all that can be achieved with a 360 pad is stupid. I know UT3 will play similarly to UT04 but UT3 on consoles will not play like PDZ on 360. No doubt the people playing UT3 in the article have played a UT game on PC, and no doubt Epic themselves have played a UT game on PC. UT3 will have to have a little auto aim on consoles although not all auto aim is the same. Some is very obvious and intrusive while some is very subtle. It may also have to be slowed down slightly, although to be honest they could keep it the same speed (it would just take a bit longer to get used to the speed for a console gamer because most console FPS are significantly slower.) If somebody plays the game for long enough on a pad they'll get used to the speed. At least play the console version before writing it off (especially since this article is so positive) that's all I was asking.

To be honest...The answer is really that simple. The KB/M is far easier to use. Far less skilled. For ones like Unreal...It is far better to use since Unreal is all about speed. Controller just makes it feel boring. A good example was the Halo port. On Xbox it was fairly easy to use. It was built for consules to speak. Put it this way...A 50-70% acc with sniping on Xbox. Means you were pretty good. Nothing great. For PC if you did not have atleast a 75%...You sucked. If you want to be good. You had to push over 95%. It was that much easier.Acenso

I posted this yesterday (or 2 days ago).  The hermits went into a frenzy.  What they won't explain is why would UT3 gimp their game on the PC to make the controller better vs. KBM.  We're not talking cross platform play, so the comparison had to be PC vs. PC. 

 The way I see it hermits can claim one of the following:
1) They gimped the kbm, therefore, UT3 is trash on the PC and they won't play it
2) UT3 devs found a way to make controller better/as good as KBM for UT3 type of game; therefore, console version will play just as good as PC version

I posted this yesterday (or 2 days ago). The hermits went into a frenzy. What they won't explain is why would UT3 gimp their game on the PC to make the controller better vs. KBM. We're not talking cross platform play, so the comparison had to be PC vs. PC.

The way I see it hermits can claim one of the following:
1) They gimped the kbm, therefore, UT3 is trash on the PC and they won't play it
2) UT3 devs found a way to make controller better/as good as KBM for UT3 type of game; therefore, console version will play just as good as PC version

mikasa

Funny how it took a predominantly PC only developer to "fix" the controller to work as good as KB/M.  With all the devs that work on console games all the time the answer was found by a PC dev.  GJ PC devs you have done the impossible! 

Vandalvideo:

I may actually be wrong about the 256x256 movement.  It might be GREATER than that thanks to potentiameters that can determine the exact angle and direction of an analog thumbstick. I thought they still used 8-bit input for these sticks (256), but I can't seem to find any reference for it.  What I have found tends to describe it like it is infinite...  though I know it is not infite.  Maybe it is 16 bit now... that would make it seem like it was infinite.

I may hang with some developers this weekend.  They develop for the 360 (and other consoles).  They'd know for sure.

Mystikef

[QUOTE="Mystikef"]

Vandalvideo:

I may actually be wrong about the 256x256 movement. It might be GREATER than that thanks to potentiameters that can determine the exact angle and direction of an analog thumbstick. I thought they still used 8-bit input for these sticks (256), but I can't seem to find any reference for it. What I have found tends to describe it like it is infinite... though I know it is not infite. Maybe it is 16 bit now... that would make it seem like it was infinite.

I may hang with some developers this weekend. They develop for the 360 (and other consoles). They'd know for sure.

Vandalvideo

Exactly... 

Dosen't surprise me at all coming from a 360 fanboy magazine. Anyone who has a gaming rig and a console knows that M/K  is  a vastly superior control method. Otherwise, why would FASA/MS institute auto-aim/sticky aim for controller users in  both Halo 2 and Shadowrun????????Huh??????You said what? That's right, because a controller is at a disadvantage. This isn't even a debate, just more garbage from a fanboy magazine that even makes this debate remotely possible.

You have to be one silly fanboy to think a controller, which turns at a snails pace and aims like you are under water, would have any chance against an equally skilled M/K user. Please.  

Console = Huge auto aim crosshair.NobuoMusicMaker

This article is about PC vs. PC, so if you're bashing the controller you're also bashing the PC.

2nd apparently for UT3 the devs found a way to make the controller work as good (if not better) than the KBM.  So the console fans are happy thinking that code will come over to consoles to make their controllers better.