OUCH, Skyrim lag problems on PS3 unlikely to be fully fixed says a Bethesda dev

http://www.gamersmint.com/ps3-skyrim-lag-problems-unlikely-to-be-solved-dev-comments

It appears the memory and lag problems that many PS3 users who've played Skyrim for a prolonged period of time are unlikely to get a permanent solution. This can be deduced after reading through a developer's clarification who's worked on New Vegas explaining the problem.

For the uninitiated, Fallout: New Vegas- another title produced by Bethesda suffered from the same framerate drops and lag issues as their newest title The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is.

Answering a question from a user who's faced a similar lag problem in New Vegas after his save file went up to 14 megs, the developer said that it's a major problem, especially on the PS3, offering the following explanation.

That can easily be a big problem, especially if you're on the PS3. The longer you play a character, the more bit differences on objects (characters, pencils on tables, containers, etc.) get saved off and carried around in memory. I think we've seen save games that are pushing 19 megs, which can be really crippling in some areas.

Since you're a developer, you should understand the implication of what I wrote. It's an engine-level issue with how the save game data is stored off as bit flag differences compared to the placed instances in the main .esm + DLC .esms. As the game modifies any placed instance of an object, those changes are stored off into what is essentially another .esm. When you load the save game, you're loading all of those differences into resident memory.

It's not like someone wrote a function and put a decimal point in the wrong place or declared something as a float when it should have been an int. We're talking about how the engine fundamentally saves off and references data at run time. Restructuring how that works would require a large time commitment. Obsidian also only had that engine for a total of 18 months prior to F:NV being released, which is a relatively short time to understand all of the details of how the technology works.

He further confirmed that these problems are only common with PS3 users as the console has a divided memory pool.

As with Fallout 3 and Skyrim, the problems are most pronounced on the PS3 because the PS3 has a divided memory pool.

He then went on to explain in detail how this is due to the PS3's divided memory resources and how games like New Vegas and Skyrim hog on resources as there are a huge number of objects. Interestingly, he didn't specify any permanent solution to this, confirming they actually had to remove content from New Vegas through later patches in order to stabilize the playing experience. Since, Skyrim is suffering from a similar problem, it's safe to say that PS3 user's problems won't be ending any time soon.

What is more concerning is that, if Bethesda was aware of this issue, why did they choose to release the game for the console which such a major problem being left unsolved? Since the game costs the same across all platforms, this is unacceptable. We hope Bethesda comes up with a solution very soon, otherwise this isn't going to end well.

Skyrim released back in November 11 for PS3, Xbox 360, and PC.

You can read through Sawyer's detailed explanation about what causes this problem and why it's difficult to solve through patches through this link.

I am SOO glad I decided to get this game on the 360. I would be so pissed if I bought this on PS3 and took the shrink wrap off so I couldn't return it or exhange it.

Why did you even bother making the game for the PS3 Bethesda?

owned :lol:

Bad optimization? surely other open world PS3 games arent that bad

couldn't they just rewrite some of the code to cull dead bodies and make them dissapear instead of remebering where each dead body was, i am sure that would solve a lot of problemsdelta3074

I seriously feel bad for people that bought this game for PS3, no gamer deserves this kinda treatment when they spend their hard earned cash on a retail game. I bet you if Bethesda did rewrite the code to cull dead bodies, they would screw up 100 other things in the process. What a bunch of ass clowns in that studio.

couldn't they just rewrite some of the code to cull dead bodies and make them dissapear instead of remebering where each dead body was, i am sure that would solve a lot of problemsdelta3074

bu...bu...but teh immersion!

Bad optimization? surely other open world PS3 games arent that bad

killu-later

[QUOTE="delta3074"]couldn't they just rewrite some of the code to cull dead bodies and make them dissapear instead of remebering where each dead body was, i am sure that would solve a lot of problemsarkephonic

I seriously feel bad for people that bought this game for PS3, no gamer deserves this kinda treatment when they spend their hard earned cash on a retail game. I bet you if Bethesda did rewrite the code to cull dead bodies, they would screw up 100 other things in the process. What a bunch of ass clowns in that studio.

If this is true,

Bethesda, f*** off and learn how to make games.

seriously, if the Dragon skeleton is already empty, it should just disappear. whenever i exit the College of Winterhold, there's a dragon skeleton laying outside. i mean, seriously...empty corpses should just disappear. they serve no purpose at all and are just annoying that they're there doing nothing. i've had up to 3 dragon skeletons in the College and sometimes it's just annoying. we don't really care how the cups and books should look the same from the last time we saw them, Bethesda. we'd rather have a stable-performing game rather than trying to preserve the placement of trivial and insignificant things on the game world.

I know I've said this before, but how many anti-ps3 threads can you get in a day? Also, this game ios meant to be played on the pc, so do yourself a favor and buy it there.

They simply rushed the ps3 version at the end to try and get the game out on that date.

[QUOTE="killu-later"]

Bad optimization? surely other open world PS3 games arent that bad

KC_Hokie

LA Noire runs with 2xMSAA 720p and performs better than the 360 version. Saints Row 3 on PS3 performs better than 360 version, Just Cause 2 if flawless and looks damm better than Skyrim. Enough 3rd party Open World PS3 games for ya?

Why did you even bother making the game for the PS3 Bethesda?LegatoSkyheart

Simple. They did it on purpose because they wanted more of the loot from the unsuspecting PS3 owners that doesn't know about the huge problems the PS3 version of this game had.

[QUOTE="killu-later"]

Bad optimization? surely other open world PS3 games arent that bad

KC_Hokie

Arkham runs perfectly, Darksiders works perfeclty Infamous (like you said) runs perfectly, Asassins Creed has some minor problems (Not in the same atmosphere as Skyrim), this is just off the top of my head.

I dont know why you are turning Bethesdas scam into an opportunity to bash Sony, it could just as easily happen to you if Bethesda was given the chance.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="killu-later"]

Bad optimization? surely other open world PS3 games arent that bad

killu-later

LA Noire runs with 2xMSAA 720p and performs better than the 360 version. Saints Row 3 on PS3 performs better than 360 version, Just Cause 2 if flawless and looks damm better than Skyrim. Enough 3rd party Open World PS3 games for ya?

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]couldn't they just rewrite some of the code to cull dead bodies and make them dissapear instead of remebering where each dead body was, i am sure that would solve a lot of problemsBrunoBRS

I seriously feel bad for people that bought this game for PS3, no gamer deserves this kinda treatment when they spend their hard earned cash on a retail game. I bet you if Bethesda did rewrite the code to cull dead bodies, they would screw up 100 other things in the process. What a bunch of ass clowns in that studio.

Yeah, pretty much.

Bethesda is such a double edged sword. On one hand you get this great game, but on the other hand you have to deal with everything that comes with it. Fortunately I was able to get the 360 version, which mind you is not problem free, but it is a lot better from what I understand. I bought Fallout 3 at launch on my PS3, and I had to wait like a year before it was not freezing every 20 minutes. It pissed me off so bad. And then with Fallout New Vegas, I wanted to buy it really badly, but I waited like a year to get it because of my Fallout 3 experience. I ended up getting the 360 version instead of the PS3 version of New Vegas because of my FO3 experience on PS3, and I got it for 5 bucks at Best Buy.

At the end of the day, Bethesda basically gives you the option to pay 60 dollars to beta test their game for them. Then after the problems are fixed, they release a fine tuned version with all the DLC packed in a year later for a total price of $20 bucks.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="killu-later"]

Bad optimization? surely other open world PS3 games arent that bad

crimsonman1245

Arkham runs perfectly, Darksiders works perfeclty Infamous (like you said) runs perfectly, Asassins Creed has some minor problems (Not in the same atmosphere as Skyrim), this is just off the top of my head.

I dont know why you are turning Bethesdas scam into an opportunity to bash Sony, it could just as easily happen to you if Bethesda was given the chance.

Name some other multiplatform open world games for the PS3. If the engine isn't written for the PS3 for an open world game there will be major problems due to the split memory.KC_Hokie

LA Noire runs with 2xMSAA 720p and performs better than the 360 version. Saints Row 3 on PS3 performs better than 360 version, Just Cause 2 if flawless and looks damm better than Skyrim. Enough 3rd party Open World PS3 games for ya?

Blame Bethesda for making a buggy game.

Blame PS3 users for actually buying the game knowing bethesda's history.

This will only look bad for Sony.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="killu-later"]

LA Noire runs with 2xMSAA 720p and performs better than the 360 version. Saints Row 3 on PS3 performs better than 360 version, Just Cause 2 if flawless and looks damm better than Skyrim. Enough 3rd party Open World PS3 games for ya?

edo-tensei

[QUOTE="killu-later"]

Bad optimization? surely other open world PS3 games arent that bad

KC_Hokie

Just Cause 2 don't have major problems and is like 5 times bigger than the map of Skyrim.

Mafia 2 and LA Noire didn't have as much problems. though the nature of their stories are linear, the map is still open-world.

Saints Row The Third also don't have major problems.

so is Batman Arkham City. no major problem.

The Saboteur i think actually performs better on the PS3, it even has MLAA applied.

Assassin's Creed series don't have these problems.

Mercenaries 2 also.

Red Faction Guerrilla also didn't have major problems. GTA4 too.

and then there's exclusives like Yakuza 3 and Yakuza 4. open world-ish games that have no problems whatsoever. inFamous 1 and 2 perform nice on the PS3 as well (especially inF2).

They should have delayed the PS3 version, what a dick move to release a completely broken game on their system.I'd definitly feel ripped of if I bought the PS3 version.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Off the top of my head I know LA Noire was designed with the PS3 in mind first (it was originally going to be a PS3 exclusive). Don't know much about the other two other than they aren't nearly as complex as Skyrim. KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="killu-later"]

Bad optimization? surely other open world PS3 games arent that bad

rumbalumba

Just Cause 2 don't have major problems and is like 5 times bigger than the map of Skyrim.

Mafia 2 and LA Noire didn't have as much problems. though the nature of their stories are linear, the map is still open-world.

Saints Row The Third also don't have major problems.

so is Batman Arkham City. no major problem.

The Saboteur i think actually performs better on the PS3, it even has MLAA applied.

Assassin's Creed series don't have these problems.

Mercenaries 2 also.

Red Faction Guerrilla also didn't have major problems. GTA4 too.

and then there's exclusives like Yakuza 3 and Yakuza 4. open world-ish games that have no problems whatsoever. inFamous 1 and 2 perform nice on the PS3 as well (especially inF2).

I should also point out DCUO has all sorts of memory issues as well. It was made internally by SOE.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="killu-later"]

Bad optimization? surely other open world PS3 games arent that bad

rumbalumba

Just Cause 2 don't have major problems and is like 5 times bigger than the map of Skyrim.

Mafia 2 and LA Noire didn't have as much problems. though the nature of their stories are linear, the map is still open-world.

Saints Row The Third also don't have major problems.

so is Batman Arkham City. no major problem.

The Saboteur i think actually performs better on the PS3, it even has MLAA applied.

Assassin's Creed series don't have these problems.

Mercenaries 2 also.

Red Faction Guerrilla also didn't have major problems. GTA4 too.

and then there's exclusives like Yakuza 3 and Yakuza 4. open world-ish games that have no problems whatsoever. inFamous 1 and 2 perform nice on the PS3 as well (especially inF2).

I'm no expert on the subject, but I think the difference here is that games like Just Cause 2 don't remember the placement of every object in the game and where you place things, where dead bodies were etc. That's one of the key problems here with the PS3 version of Skyrim, all of the objects and things in the world being saved...

They should have delayed the PS3 version, what a dick move to release a completely broken game on their system.I'd definitly feel ripped of if I bought the PS3 version.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] Then you shouldn't comment if you don't have the experience with those games, because they run perfectly without the trash code that bethesda put into the ps3 version of this game.edo-tensei

[QUOTE="rumbalumba"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Name some other multiplatform open world games for the PS3. If the engine isn't written for the PS3 for an open world game there will be major problems due to the split memory.arkephonic

Just Cause 2 don't have major problems and is like 5 times bigger than the map of Skyrim.

Mafia 2 and LA Noire didn't have as much problems. though the nature of their stories are linear, the map is still open-world.

Saints Row The Third also don't have major problems.

so is Batman Arkham City. no major problem.

The Saboteur i think actually performs better on the PS3, it even has MLAA applied.

Assassin's Creed series don't have these problems.

Mercenaries 2 also.

Red Faction Guerrilla also didn't have major problems. GTA4 too.

and then there's exclusives like Yakuza 3 and Yakuza 4. open world-ish games that have no problems whatsoever. inFamous 1 and 2 perform nice on the PS3 as well (especially inF2).

I'm no expert on the subject, but I think the difference here is that games like Just Cause 2 don't remember the placement of every object in the game and where you place things, where dead bodies were etc. That's one of the key problems here with the PS3 version of Skyrim, all of the objects and things in the world being saved...

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]DCUO has all sorts of problems due to memory issues. It was designed by SOE.

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="edo-tensei"] Lol, mmo is not just an open world game. edo-tensei

No kidding right? Is this suposed to be smart business?edo-tensei

Console games tend to only really sell in their first few weeks, and the chances of a reviewer (never mind enough reviewers to really shape public opinion) catching this bug were virtually nil. So yes, it was smart business: they didn't have to worry about the cost of rebuilding their engine and while still ensuring big sales.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Off the top of my head I know LA Noire was designed with the PS3 in mind first (it was originally going to be a PS3 exclusive). Don't know much about the other two other than they aren't nearly as complex as Skyrim. delta3074

F*** Bethesda. how is the 360 version ? and do you have it installed ?TheGuardian03

I have the 360 version and have had it installed since day 1, before I heard of the installation / texture resolution glitch.

I'm only 27 hours in, so I don't have as much time invested as many, but I haven't ran into even 1 single glitch yet in the game, major or minor.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] No kidding right? Is this suposed to be smart business?Slow_Show

Console games tend to only really sell in their first few weeks, and the chances of a reviewer (never mind enough reviewers to really shape public opinion) catching this bug were virtually nil. So yes, it was smart business: they didn't have to worry about the cost of rebuilding their engine and while still ensuring big sales.

[QUOTE="Slow_Show"]

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"] No kidding right? Is this suposed to be smart business?edo-tensei

Console games tend to only really sell in their first few weeks, and the chances of a reviewer (never mind enough reviewers to really shape public opinion) catching this bug were virtually nil. So yes, it was smart business: they didn't have to worry about the cost of rebuilding their engine and while still ensuring big sales.

I want to agree with you, but that's what everyone said after Fallout 3 and New Vegas and yet here we are again in the same situation.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="rumbalumba"]

Just Cause 2 don't have major problems and is like 5 times bigger than the map of Skyrim.

Mafia 2 and LA Noire didn't have as much problems. though the nature of their stories are linear, the map is still open-world.

Saints Row The Third also don't have major problems.

so is Batman Arkham City. no major problem.

The Saboteur i think actually performs better on the PS3, it even has MLAA applied.

Assassin's Creed series don't have these problems.

Mercenaries 2 also.

Red Faction Guerrilla also didn't have major problems. GTA4 too.

and then there's exclusives like Yakuza 3 and Yakuza 4. open world-ish games that have no problems whatsoever. inFamous 1 and 2 perform nice on the PS3 as well (especially inF2).

KC_Hokie

I'm no expert on the subject, but I think the difference here is that games like Just Cause 2 don't remember the placement of every object in the game and where you place things, where dead bodies were etc. That's one of the key problems here with the PS3 version of Skyrim, all of the objects and things in the world being saved...

how will you rephrase your question? there's no other open-world game on the PS3 that remembers the placement of every object. heck, is there another game on any platform that remembers how the objects are placed, and is open-world at the same time? nothing.

and what benefit do gamers get if somehow an empty corpse of a wolf stays there for 100 hours? Bethesda should know better. this system will only make an endless loop of spawning new enemies but never removing them. maybe for dungeons they don't respawn, but all the other enemies do, especially dragons.

once you kill an enemy and emptied the corpse, it should just disappear. would gamers really care that the candle should be on the floor rather than on the table? it makes the world feel even more fake. NPCs don't clean up their stores and their rooms? once an apple falls inside a general store, it will stay there forever until you pick it up and put it back to where it belonged.

Why does Skyrim need to save/ remember every little detail? Is it part of the Gameplay?

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="edo-tensei"] Then you shouldn't comment if you don't have the experience with those games, because they run perfectly without the trash code that bethesda put into the ps3 version of this game.edo-tensei

That's on the short term, long term however will only hurt bethesda and the people that bought this for the ps3. At least they'll know better next time.edo-tensei

Long term they'll just fix the problem (most rumours have their future games using id Tech 5 anyway) or just lie through their teeth and say they fixed the problem. The gaming community at large has shown a complete lack of conviction when it comes to boycotting devs/products, so it's not like they're really risking a huge backlash either way. 99.9% of the people who say they've sworn off Bethesda over this will be screaming "shut up and take my money!!!" the second they see a Fallout 4 trailer.

Why does Skyrim need to save/ remember every little detail? Is it part of the Gameplay?

killu-later

It's totally a part of the gameplay, it's what the game is all about, complete interactivity.

For example, I went on a quest that required me to remove all my gear, items, weapons, everything, and put on a party suit and go to a party, while some other guy smuggled in some weapons for me in the building to kill people silently. Before I left on the mission, I put all my stuff, tons and tons of stuff, in a sack outside of a barn, and after I was done I went back to the town and retrieved all my stuff from the sack. It's stuff like that which make saving the items important to the gameplay, amongst many other, probably better examples.