OUCH, Skyrim lag problems on PS3 unlikely to be fully fixed says a Bethesda dev

would gamers really care that the candle should be on the floor rather than on the table? it makes the world feel even more fake. NPCs don't clean up their stores and their rooms? once an apple falls inside a general store, it will stay there forever until you pick it up and put it back to where it belonged.rumbalumba

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"]That's on the short term, long term however will only hurt bethesda and the people that bought this for the ps3. At least they'll know better next time.Slow_Show

Long term they'll just fix the problem (most rumours have their future games using idTech5 anyway) or just lie through their teeth and say they fixed the problem. The gaming community at large has shown a complete lack of conviction when it comes to boycotting devs/products, so it's not like they're really risking a huge backlash either way.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

I'm no expert on the subject, but I think the difference here is that games like Just Cause 2 don't remember the placement of every object in the game and where you place things, where dead bodies were etc. That's one of the key problems here with the PS3 version of Skyrim, all of the objects and things in the world being saved...

rumbalumba

how will you rephrase your question? there's no other open-world game on the PS3 that remembers the placement of every object. heck, is there another game on any platform that remembers how the objects are placed, and is open-world at the same time? nothing.

and what benefit do gamers get if somehow an empty corpse of a wolf stays there for 100 hours? Bethesda should know better. this system will only make an endless loop of spawning new enemies but never removing them. maybe for dungeons they don't respawn, but all the other enemies do, especially dragons.

once you kill an enemy and emptied the corpse, it should just disappear. would gamers really care that the candle should be on the floor rather than on the table? it makes the world feel even more fake. NPCs don't clean up their stores and their rooms? once an apple falls inside a general store, it will stay there forever until you pick it up and put it back to where it belonged.

And DCUO also has similiar problems. But instead of everything saving to your harddrive it saves to central server. Even with that you can't play DCUO for extended periods of time without it crashing. Same exact memory problem. After 30+ hours of playing Skyrim on a PS3 it apparently saves so much the PS3 can't handle it.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="delta3074"]but none of tose games remeber absolutely everything, the problem wit bethesda games on PS3 is the game cache has to remember where every object in the game world is if it is moved, every chair, pot, spoon, fork, bowl, table, dead body,weapons and amillion other items none of the games you listed have such a high level of interaction with every single object in the game world, it's not trash code becasue it runs fine on the PC and xbox 360, bethesda probably didn't want to take the time to rewrite huge parts of the engine to fit with the split memory that teh Ps3 uses, they should never have released the game on Ps3 if they could not be bothered to take the extra time to optimise the engine, i was so sure thet the ps3 version would be identical to the 360 version and i hate to admit i was wrong, bethesda should recall all the ps3 versions and give every ps3 customer who forked out for this game a refund.delta3074

I really don't understand that........Oblivion it is perfect on the PS3.Why not the same and the Skyrim..??AtariKidX

Because Skyrim is much more complex than Oblivion?

The games came out, what, 4 years apart now? Why on Earth would you assume Skyrim would run perfectly just because Oblivion did?

I really don't understand that........Oblivion it is perfect on the PS3.Why not the same and the Skyrim..??AtariKidX

[QUOTE="AtariKidX"]I really don't understand that........Oblivion it is perfect on the PS3.Why not the same and the Skyrim..??The_Game21x

Because Skyrim is much more complex than Oblivion?

The games came out, what, 4 years apart now? Why on Earth would you assume Skyrim would run perfectly just because Oblivion did?

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

[QUOTE="AtariKidX"]I really don't understand that........Oblivion it is perfect on the PS3.Why not the same and the Skyrim..??edo-tensei

Because Skyrim is much more complex than Oblivion?

The games came out, what, 4 years apart now? Why on Earth would you assume Skyrim would run perfectly just because Oblivion did?

[QUOTE="AtariKidX"]I really don't understand that........Oblivion it is perfect on the PS3.Why not the same and the Skyrim..??The_Game21x

Because Skyrim is much more complex than Oblivion?

The games came out, what, 4 years apart now? Why on Earth would you assume Skyrim would run perfectly just because Oblivion did?

Also, I have no basis for this or factual evidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda did change some of the programming and code to better optimize the game for the PS3. The PS3 did come out a full year after the 360 version, so that would have given them some time to work out the kinks.

[QUOTE="edo-tensei"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Because Skyrim is much more complex than Oblivion?

The games came out, what, 4 years apart now? Why on Earth would you assume Skyrim would run perfectly just because Oblivion did?

charizard1605

[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="edo-tensei"] Skyrim is also running on the new vegas engine on the ps3, and that game was also a mess on the ps3 to begin with(from what I heard). This company is treating ps3 owners as second hand citizen and it's obvious. I hope sony can reclaim their top spot next gen just to rub it on bethesda's face lol.edo-tensei

[QUOTE="killu-later"]

Why does Skyrim need to save/ remember every little detail? Is it part of the Gameplay?

arkephonic

It's totally a part of the gameplay, it's what the game is all about, complete interactivity.

For example, I went on a quest that required me to remove all my gear, items, weapons, everything, and put on a party suit and go to a party, while some other guy smuggled in some weapons for me in the building to kill people silently. Before I left on the mission, I put all my stuff, tons and tons of stuff, in a sack outside of a barn, and after I was done I went back to the town and retrieved all my stuff from the sack. It's stuff like that which make saving the items important to the gameplay, amongst many other, probably better examples.

yeah but what about that dragon corpse that you just looted and is now empty? or that cup that you bumped into and dropped on the floor in some bandit dungeon that you already cleared and would not enter ever again? are those essential for gameplay as well?

i mean, developing systems to separate things that you want remembered and things you don't want remembered would've taken Bethesda more time, but it's better than just "loading a save file and then placing all items relative to what they originally were placed in the first-ever save file". it was practical for Bethesda, but not practical for PS3 gamers. and they said they had a separate team working on the PS3? lol. it's not like they optimized the engine either. there are a ton of workarounds they could have done if they coded their engine right from the get-go.

Then refeund the people on the PS3 you sold a game that can potentially only be partly completed. Thats absolutely ridiculous, and completely Bethesda's fault for not redoing how saving is done after the first game they had an issue with this on. Pathetic.

I know that this is 100% Bethesda's fault and entirely on them, but Sony seriously needs to consider this small checklist when designing their next console, the PS4.

1. Launch the console at a competitive price

2. Make the console very developer friendly

I know that this is 100% Bethesda's fault and entirely on them, but Sony seriously needs to consider this small checklist when designing their next console, the PS4.

1. Launch the console at a competitive price

2. Make the console very developer friendly

arkephonic

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

[QUOTE="killu-later"]

Why does Skyrim need to save/ remember every little detail? Is it part of the Gameplay?

rumbalumba

It's totally a part of the gameplay, it's what the game is all about, complete interactivity.

For example, I went on a quest that required me to remove all my gear, items, weapons, everything, and put on a party suit and go to a party, while some other guy smuggled in some weapons for me in the building to kill people silently. Before I left on the mission, I put all my stuff, tons and tons of stuff, in a sack outside of a barn, and after I was done I went back to the town and retrieved all my stuff from the sack. It's stuff like that which make saving the items important to the gameplay, amongst many other, probably better examples.

yeah but what about that dragon corpse that you just looted and is now empty? or that cup that you bumped into and dropped on the floor in some bandit dungeon that you already cleared and would not enter ever again? are those essential for gameplay as well?

i mean, developing systems to separate things that you want remembered and things you don't want remembered would've taken Bethesda more time, but it's better than just "loading a save file and then placing all items relative to what they originally were placed in the first-ever save file". it was practical for Bethesda, but not practical for PS3 gamers. and they said they had a separate team working on the PS3? lol. it's not like they optimized the engine either. there are a ton of workarounds they could have done if they coded their engine right from the get-go.

I don't have the answers to the problems, but I would attribute this monumental failure to lack of time, talent and just flat out not giving a ****.

[QUOTE="arkephonic"]

I know that this is 100% Bethesda's fault and entirely on them, but Sony seriously needs to consider this small checklist when designing their next console, the PS4.

1. Launch the console at a competitive price

2. Make the console very developer friendly

charizard1605

Maybe they've learned.

Nothing new really... 90% of multiplats are better on 360.

Its bethesdas fault for the engine, but also sony to, Bethesda is not the only dev that has had issues with the ps3, xbox360 versions of multiplats are almost always better and rarely ever worse.

I love my ps3 (love heavy rain, enjoy uncharted series, loved mgs4,etc..), but there are some issues with it that I hope they fix for PS4. Gotta make it easyier for devs to work on it, if it was just one dev team then fine but its not just them its so many other devs to that do multiplat games and they turn out better on 360. This is not acecptable and I hope they learn from it for next gen.

[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="arkephonic"]

I know that this is 100% Bethesda's fault and entirely on them, but Sony seriously needs to consider this small checklist when designing their next console, the PS4.

1. Launch the console at a competitive price

2. Make the console very developer friendly

KC_Hokie

Maybe they've learned.

I know that this is 100% Bethesda's fault and entirely on them, but Sony seriously needs to consider this small checklist when designing their next console, the PS4.

1. Launch the console at a competitive price

2. Make the console very developer friendly

arkephonic

2. the PS1 and PS2 were also not developer-friendly too. but why is it that devs did not complain nearly as much, and the games still perform great despite that? it's because the devs devoted their time to developing for the gold mine PS1/PS2 version. they knew the PS2 was so ahead that they had to do a really good job. now that the PS3 is in last place, Bethesda just totally ignored the PS3. it is not Sony's fault, it's the dev's conviction. if they really wanted to make the game perform good, they would have done it regardless of hardware. PS1 didn't stop them, PS2 didn't stop them, but suddenly PS3 does? all Sony consoles' architecture differ from the conventional PC. it was Bethesda being lazy, nothing more.

Man it sucks for people who only have a PS3. :(

glad to be a multi consle owner.TheGuardian03

Agreed. Though if you only happen to own a 360 like myself, you would be in paradise already, because there's already about 90% of multiplats that happens to run &/or look better on 360.

I know that this is 100% Bethesda's fault and entirely on them, but Sony seriously needs to consider this small checklist when designing their next console, the PS4.

1. Launch the console at a competitive price

2. Make the console very developer friendlyarkephonic

Agreed. Though this is totally Sony's fault for making the PS3's hardware so complicated for 3rd party developers to develop their games for the platform. If the PS3 were more easier to develop games for like the 360 & the Wii, then most of the multiplats this generation would've been exactly the same between 360 & PS3 without the PS3 versions suffering too much problems at all.

The PS1 and PS2 were also not developer-friendly too.rumbalumba

Um, PS1 was developer friendly. It was the PS2, PSP, & the PS3 that weren't.

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

[QUOTE="charizard1605"] They have experience with the first point, but as for the second point, they have never released a system so far that was developer friendly (the Vita promises to be their first system to do that).charizard1605

Maybe they've learned.

[QUOTE="charizard1605"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Yea Sony isn't known for being developer friendly. If that use that 'Cell' again that certainly won't help. Or do strange things like divide the memory in half between the CPU and GPU instead of the main memory being used by both.

Maybe they've learned.

KC_Hokie

I think they should stick with the Cell. Going for any other system architecture would be financial suicide.

Skyrim's PS3 problems are due to memory issues, not the Cell, as this thread makes clear. As long as the PS4 uses pooled memory this sort of problem won't be an issue since memory-hungry games can simply be assigned as much as they need (as on the 360).

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"][QUOTE="charizard1605"]Eh, I think the best thing they CAN do is use the Cell again. At this point, almost all developers are fully familiar with it. I just hope they do not gimp the memory again this time though.charizard1605

I think they should stick with the Cell. Going for any other system architecture would be financial suicide.

I see that as a disadvantage again. It won't take as long to learn as the original cell but it will take longer than the competition's systems.

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Developers may be used to this version of the cell. But what happens when they have to develop games for the next Xbox, PC, and PS4 with a more advanced version of the cell (which will be more complex to develop for than the present version). I think it would be pretty stupid to use it again. KC_Hokie

I think they should stick with the Cell. Going for any other system architecture would be financial suicide.

I see that as a disadvantage again. It won't take as long to learn as the original cell but it will take longer than the competition's systems.

[QUOTE="charizard1605"]

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]Developers may be used to this version of the cell. But what happens when they have to develop games for the next Xbox, PC, and PS4 with a more advanced version of the cell (which will be more complex to develop for than the present version). I think it would be pretty stupid to use it again. KC_Hokie

I think they should stick with the Cell. Going for any other system architecture would be financial suicide.

I see that as a disadvantage again. It won't take as long to learn as the original cell but it will take longer than the competition's systems.

My PS3 copy is arriving tomorrow. After reading everything, I'm pretty worried.

Do you guys really think it won't be fixed in a future patch? And how bad is it, really? I don't actually see that many PS3 owners complaining, rather than self-righteous PC gamers.BlackoutGunshot

Return the PS3 version for the 360 version.

My PS3 copy is arriving tomorrow. After reading everything, I'm pretty worried. Do you guys really think it won't be fixed in a future patch? And how bad is it, really? I don't actually see that many PS3 owners complaining, rather than self-righteous PC gamers.BlackoutGunshot

What are your options? Do you have a 360 or a PC that can run Skyrim? If I were you, I would keep that **** shrink wrapped and exchange it for one of those versions.

Obviously the PS3 Skyrim problems differ depending on who you ask, but I think it is a pretty clear general consensus that the PS3 version of Skyrim has the most issues to overcome.

if i wanted to play buggy games i would game on pc. fix your game damn it every game you guys put out is buggy.