Piracy is a crime and it's morally wrong, no matter what the excuse, pirates are asspipes.
PC gaming piracy is sickening, enough excuses already
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="hypoty"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"]How come Steam doesn't want to release their sales figures?XenogearsMaster
http://www.edge-online.com/news/steam-unable-to-share-sales-data
Probably because the sales figures are extremely low.How did you come to that conclusion?
"Steam is making us rich"
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/02/20/valve-steam-is-making-us-rich/1
[QUOTE="gamecubepad"][QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] I've already explained why this point is wrong. You can't just ignore my opints, I reiterrate them again for you. The fact of the matter is that the PC market is far different from the console market. Vandalvideo
I'm not ignoring your points Vandal. I simply have a different pov.
Crysis will not continue to sell. Once Crysis 2 comes out it's sales will flatline. Just watch. You're basically asserting that PC isn't for games like Crysis or Gran Turismo, but rather a test-bed for casual and indie games.
I'm saying that piracy is the reason games like Crysis or MW2 fail on PC, but succeed on consoles. Broadband is only going to get faster and faster. Which is why devs like Valve, Crytek, and id have set their sites on consoles.
The alleged 200million user install base is a deception. The general public prefers consoles over PCs in regards to gaming.
It's hard to say given that PC game sales numbers are esoteric, at best.
Well your POV is nice and all, but I don't see anything more than conjecture. Oh, and I'm sick and tired of console gamers claiming to have some special link to the 'general public'. PROVE IT`!The proof is in the pudding. Halo 3, MGS4, and SMG/SSBB can all achieve greater sales on an install base of 20million consoles than the de facto PC game, Crysis can acheive on an install base of 200million+.
I'm not saying that PC games don't sell, or that they aren't profitable. I'm saying that consoles are the systems of choice for FPS. What a quantum shift. PC gaming is mainly for casuals. The "hardcore" base is smaller than that of consoles. Largely due to piracy.
In the past, one dude at school would copy half-life and hand it out to all his friends. With the advent of broadband any fool can steal any song, movie, or game in 5hrs or less.
Things have changed. Console games are a safer and more profitable investment for developers. Proof is in the install base vs sales figures. Just look.
Crytek CEOs, like so many other people, are using piracy as a scapegoat to try and pull the wool over PC gamers' eyes and pretend that the real reason they are switching to consoles isn't greed. Pure, unadulterated corporate greed. Vandalvideo
Wait, wanting more people to buy your industry shaping games instead of stealing them is "greed". :roll:
[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Crytek CEOs, like so many other people, are using piracy as a scapegoat to try and pull the wool over PC gamers' eyes and pretend that the real reason they are switching to consoles isn't greed. Pure, unadulterated corporate greed. gamecubepad
Wait, wanting more people to buy your industry shaping games instead of stealing them is "greed". :roll:
It is and isn't in a sense. Sales equals more money. However, piracy equals potentially less money. It's tricky, but so is that whole PC scene anyways..Nobody is denying that 4.1 million pirated copies is a lot. It's the reason behind these numbers that's the cause of the debate. How many times has Counter Strike Source or TF2 been pirated? I'm guessing not enough to make Mr. Newell complaing about it. Why? Because Valve doesn't treat their customers like ****. Valve doesn't spit on the faces of the very people without whom their little company would never have existed. Valve doesn't ignore their customers' demands.Valve builds games around online play so they aren't as affected by piracy. If Newell made single-player games he would probably be complaining more like the long list of formerly pc exclusive devs. Citing Valve or Blizzard as examples of why pc piracy isn't a problem is just as disingenuous as citing the low piracy rates of Nancy Drew games.Hanass
Oh and by the way there are plenty of pc gaming companies that treat their customers well and still get their games pirated.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/11/acrying-shame-world-of-goo-piracy-rate-near-90.ars
COD4 was heavily pirated even though it met the demands of all these pirates that are supposedly doing it out of protest. Enough excuses already.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/01/17/call_of_duty_4_piracy_is_rampant/1
he proof is in the pudding. Halo 3, MGS4, and SMG/SSBB can all achieve greater sales on an install base of 20million consoles than the de facto PC game, Crysis can acheive on an install base of 200million+. I'm not saying that PC games don't sell, or that they aren't profitable. I'm saying that consoles are the systems of choice for FPS. What a quantum shift. PC gaming is mainly for casuals. The "hardcore" base is smaller than that of consoles. Largely due to piracy.In the past, one dude at school would copy half-life and hand it out to all his friends. With the advent of broadband any fool can steal any song, movie, or game in 5hrs or less.Things have changed. Console games are a safer and more profitable investment for developers. Proof is in the install base vs sales figures. Just look.gamecubepadThere are few problems with your reasons. Not only do they not address what I asked you to prove, btu they are insufficient to prove even your own point. The mere fact that a game like Halo 3 may have more sales than a game like Battlefield 2 on the PC doesn't necessarily prove that consoles are the platform for serious FPS gamers. At some point , such numbers just get rediculous anyway. It is highly improbable that you will ever meet those 4 million people playing the game. Not only that, but on the PC FPS gamers are split up between a number of different games; Call of Duty, Battlefield, Unreal, Quake, MoH..the list goes on. For all you know, the combined total of all these games could completely dominate any last console as well. You're assuming that your few games represent a large enough majority that they could beat the combined force of the otherwise segregated PC community. That in and of itself you have failed to prove so far. So even if you want to claim that these games sold more than Crysis, it is insufficient to prove that the PC is not the platform for the FPS, or that the PC is not a big hit with the general public. All the fragmented communities on the PC could very well beat the communities on the consoles. If the 200 million install base numebr is true, it DECIMATES consoles. Oh, and more profitable is FALSE. The PCGA released numbers recently which showed the PC as the single highest grossing platform out of any individual platform. The mere fact that you sell more copies does not gaurantee that you earned more profit. I can't beleive how economically unsavvy you console gamers are. It has to do with marginal revenue and marginal cost. If MR exceeds MC, you make profit. How much is determined by the differnce between these two. However, a product with a profit of 10 dollars per game selling 4 million copies loses to a product with ap rofit of 45 dollars selling 1 million, by a dang long shot.
Probably because the sales figures are extremely low.[QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"][QUOTE="hypoty"]
http://www.edge-online.com/news/steam-unable-to-share-sales-data
hypoty
How did you come to that conclusion?
"Steam is making us rich"
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/02/20/valve-steam-is-making-us-rich/1
Because they still don't want to release their sales figures... It's real simple logic.[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"] Crytek CEOs, like so many other people, are using piracy as a scapegoat to try and pull the wool over PC gamers' eyes and pretend that the real reason they are switching to consoles isn't greed. Pure, unadulterated corporate greed. gamecubepad
Wait, wanting more people to buy your industry shaping games instead of stealing them is "greed". :roll:
If you are a bloody rich company like Crytek from PC sales, and you only get even more bloody rich on consoles, yeah thats greed.
Its not the pirates its the fact that nothing is done to stop these sites from allowing downloads of pirated games. Just like the sites that sell hacks, how long is it going to take the industry to work with governments to enact new laws?
Even if MW2 sold equally as well as the console version it would still have the lowest percentage at Amazon. Theirs this thing called digital download where you can buy a game online and download it. Steam is required for MW2 so its easiest to just buy it off steam.
MW2 sold about a million copies on pc. Thats 60 millions gross, the cost to port to pc was surely less than a million, so thats a huge profit.
[QUOTE="gamecubepad"]The proof is in the pudding. Halo 3, MGS4, and SMG/SSBB can all achieve greater sales on an install base of 20million consoles than the de facto PC game, Crysis can acheive on an install base of 200million+. I'm not saying that PC games don't sell, or that they aren't profitable. I'm saying that consoles are the systems of choice for FPS. What a quantum shift. PC gaming is mainly for casuals. The "hardcore" base is smaller than that of consoles. Largely due to piracy.In the past, one dude at school would copy half-life and hand it out to all his friends. With the advent of broadband any fool can steal any song, movie, or game in 5hrs or less.Things have changed. Console games are a safer and more profitable investment for developers. Proof is in the install base vs sales figures. Just look.VandalvideoThere are few problems with your reasons.
Halo + MW2 on 360 alone crush all current gen PC FPS's combined in sales. Fact.
PC's are for casual games like The Sims and Bejeweled. Have fun with that.
Can you maybe use some paragraphs?
LOL.... wow.... so much wrong with this.... I'm not sure where to start. Let me just say this... when I go to a restaurant and they don't offer anything that I like/want, then I don't order it, eat it and run out without paying.... I just find a different place to eat. Also... there wouldnt be the same amount of piracy on other titles. Did you just start following the industry yesterday? Games always sell a different amount, therefore we know that some games are more interesting to larger amounts of people than others... therefore some games will be pirated more than others. Alot of PC gamers seem to have this sense of entitlement... Like something is owed to them simply because they have a PC. PC gamers are like Kratos (god of war)... they create their own fate and then cry about it later whilst blaming everyone except the one responsible for the whole mess, themselves. All the PC gamers have done here is shown developers to stay away from the PC. PC gaming will always exist, but take a look at PC gaming today and what it was 15 years ago.... its a shell of its former self.Your logic is completely flawed
"you guys pirated 4.1 million""IW2 are not catering to PC because it only got 8% of the sales"
...they got 8% sales because 4.1 million was pirated, they had 4.1 million illegal downloads because they dumbed down the game. Had they not dumbed down the game they wouldn't have had 4.1 million illegal downloads thus they wouldn't have had only 8% of amazon sales. You can't have it both ways.
Theres a reason it was the most pirated game ever, if it was purely because PC gamers don't want to buy games then similar numbers would hapepn every time there is a release.
It was a successful boycott imo, the 4.1 million proves there are 4.1 million potential customers and you can bet your bottom dollar they wont make the same mistake next time around.
Brainkiller05
That's why people love PC gaming
So even if you want to claim that these games sold more than Crysis, it is insufficient to prove that the PC is not the platform for the FPS, or that the PC is not a big hit with the general public. All the fragmented communities on the PC could very well beat the communities on the consoles. Vandalvideo
PC shooters don't sell as well as they used to.
Just ask John Carmack
As for fragmented communities consoles have them as well. But more importantly a lot of those pc communities that play games like CSS and BF2 aren't buying current games. For FPS especially it is a much bigger risk to make a pc exclusive.
If the 200 million install base numebr is true, it DECIMATES consoles. Vandalvideo
People come up with those numbers by including women that play popcap games, kids that play flash games, etc. The base for games like Crysis is actually pretty small, and worse has a very high piracy rate. All you have to do is go to your local retail store to see who the big companies like EA are making games for. It's your mom, your sister, your little cousin....not you. Yes I am aware of digital distribution but games have to be marketed and no one is marketing the pc as a hardcore platform. High-end shooters are being developed for the consoles and then ported to the pc for some pick-up cash. People like you are no longer a primary demographic.
Halo + MW2 on 360 alone crush all current gen PC FPS's combined in sales. Fact.gamecubepadOh really, I find it highly improbable that you've truly researched the user base for every last current gen PC FPS title, done comparative analysis to figure out just how many unique users are in each one, and then compared that to a comparative, unique analysis of Halo and MW2 based on distinct individuality between the two to find which platform has the most users. So go on, I demand proof on these counts; A) Prove to me you have the statistics regarding the unique users that do not bleed over between Halo and Modern Warfare 2. Keep in mind, you have to prove that the ones you use for Halo are not the same as Modern Warfare 2. B) Prove to me you have the statistics regarding the unique users between all modern PC FPS games. Until you can provide the unique number of users per game which do not play each game, then you cannot make such claims. It would be presumptuous and you would merely be making up statistics. So, since you claim it is fact, give me evidence.
Merely because you claim it does not make it so. Again, your reasoning was insufficient in your last post. Lets see if you can prove your claims this time.PC's are for casual games like The Sims and Bejeweled. Have fun with that.Can you maybe use some paragraphs?
PC shooters don't sell as well as they used to.Just ask John Carmackdc337Yeah sure, ask the guy who hasn't released a solid FPS game in quite some time. I mean, Doom 3 was such an amazingly great game! Oh, and Quake 4 was just so amazingly mind blowing that the entire PC community just had to play it! Massive sarcasm btw.
That goes against my own personal experience with consoles. I've generally found that those that I play with on other games can be found playing different games at different times. On the PC, I rarely see much bleed over. Even the most hardcore of players, who have amazing rigs don't play many games besides their expertise. I remember asking this real big Call of Duty gamer if he played Crysis and he had no idea what I was talking about.As for fragmented communities consoles have them as well. But more importantly a lot of those pc communities that play games like CSS and BF2 aren't buying current games. For FPS especially it is a much bigger risk to make a pc exclusive.
Prove to me that Microsoft included those things when they came up with the number. Not just Microsoft, the PCGA too. Don't make empty claims. Come on, evidence.People come up with those numbers by including women that play popcap games, kids that play flash games, etc.
That seems to be wrong, considering it is one of the fastest selling PC games in over a decade.The base for games like Crysis is actually pretty small, and worse has a very high piracy rate.
PC has never been about big companies like EA. Its always been about fostering new indie developers who make the newest, greatest games for us to play. Big companies usually switch platforms to make more money. I don't mourn the fact that EA isn't making games for me. I could care less. I could care less about Epic as well. I could care less about Blizzard at this point in time. I would take Ace over blizzard any day of the week.All you have to do is go to your local retail store to see who the big companies like EA are making games for. It's your mom, your sister, your little cousin....not you. Yes I am aware of digital distribution but games have to be marketed and no one is marketing the pc as a hardcore platform. High-end shooters are being developed for the consoles and then ported to the pc for some pick-up cash. People like you are no longer a primary demographic.
There are few problems with your reasons.[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="gamecubepad"]The proof is in the pudding. Halo 3, MGS4, and SMG/SSBB can all achieve greater sales on an install base of 20million consoles than the de facto PC game, Crysis can acheive on an install base of 200million+. I'm not saying that PC games don't sell, or that they aren't profitable. I'm saying that consoles are the systems of choice for FPS. What a quantum shift. PC gaming is mainly for casuals. The "hardcore" base is smaller than that of consoles. Largely due to piracy.In the past, one dude at school would copy half-life and hand it out to all his friends. With the advent of broadband any fool can steal any song, movie, or game in 5hrs or less.Things have changed. Console games are a safer and more profitable investment for developers. Proof is in the install base vs sales figures. Just look.gamecubepad
Halo + MW2 on 360 alone crush all current gen PC FPS's combined in sales. Fact.
PC's are for casual games like The Sims and Bejeweled. Have fun with that.
Can you maybe use some paragraphs?
You have absolutely no experience with professional gaming if you think that only casual games are played on the PC. It's quite the opposite, games like MW2 end up being casual in the eye of a competitive gamers.
I mean, the entire genre of RTS is solely on PC, is used in competitive gaming, and in general (not just competitively), is nonexistent on consoles.
Not to mention any competitive gamer will tell you that keyboard (or keyboard surrogate, as in something like a nostromo speedpad) and mouse are far superior to any gamepad even on the coveted fad genre of consoles, FPS's.
Take your ignorance out of this thread.
There are few problems with your reasons.[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="gamecubepad"]The proof is in the pudding. Halo 3, MGS4, and SMG/SSBB can all achieve greater sales on an install base of 20million consoles than the de facto PC game, Crysis can acheive on an install base of 200million+. I'm not saying that PC games don't sell, or that they aren't profitable. I'm saying that consoles are the systems of choice for FPS. What a quantum shift. PC gaming is mainly for casuals. The "hardcore" base is smaller than that of consoles. Largely due to piracy.In the past, one dude at school would copy half-life and hand it out to all his friends. With the advent of broadband any fool can steal any song, movie, or game in 5hrs or less.Things have changed. Console games are a safer and more profitable investment for developers. Proof is in the install base vs sales figures. Just look.gamecubepad
Halo + MW2 on 360 alone crush all current gen PC FPS's combined in sales. Fact.
PC's are for casual games like The Sims and Bejeweled. Have fun with that.
Can you maybe use some paragraphs?
the real thing to look at is how many PC gamers are still playing games released 10-20 years ago. compare that to how many people are still playing dreamcast games online, i dont think theres any(or any server still up)
the thing about console gamers are they are always looking for the next new thing. if you're playing a game a year or two old, its nothing exciting and why bother. your FPSs may be more popular now, but when the next version comes out the previous version just flat out dies, and thats never a good thing.
saying console gamers are "hardcore" is the funniest thing i've heard in awhile. any time i play on a console it feels less and less "hardcore" (not that this really matters but its just true) PC games have much more depth then most console games. to me depth = hardcore. consoles barely have any depth.
im not gonna go as far as to say that EVERY console only gamer on SW is ignorant. but i have seen almost 10x the amount of ignorance coming from console gamers in regards to PC then PC gamers talking about consoles. frankly im getting sick of it. also you guys make it quite obvious that you have either never played or dont own a PC capable of playing games when you make comments like some of the ones i've seen in this thread.
okay im out
Again, your reasoning was insufficient in your last post. Lets see if you can prove your claims this time.Vandalvideo
More spin. What are you even arguing anyway?
Crysis and UT3 flop
Here's a challange to your challange. Prove to me that current gen PC FPSs can equal 22 million+ sales.
Crysis took 1yr to hit the 1 million mark in Q3 2008. Doubt it's over 3 million. MW2 is allegedely around 2 million.
That leaves L4D2, Stalker, UT3, and what?
17 million sales between those games, I think not.
You have absolutely no experience with professional gaming if you think that only casual games are played on the PC. It's quite the opposite, games like MW2 end up being casual in the eye of a competitive gamers.
I mean, the entire genre of RTS is solely on PC, is used in competitive gaming, and in general (not just competitively), is nonexistent on consoles.
Not to mention any competitive gamer will tell you that keyboard (or keyboard surrogate, as in something like a nostromo speedpad) and mouse are far superior to any gamepad even on the coveted fad genre of consoles, FPS's.
Take your ignorance out of this thread.
ecao123
We're talking sales here. Maybe you should take your own advice.
Oh yes, we were talking sales.
PC competitive games sales slaughter console competitive game sales.
ecao123
:|
What?
Name some current gen, "competitive" PC games that equal Halo 3 or MW2 in sales.
Prove to me that Microsoft included those things when they came up with the number. Not just Microsoft, the PCGA too. Don't make empty claims. Come on, evidence. Vandalvideo
Well no one can prove how many pc gamers are out there so if you want me to believe that there are 200 million people that would consider buying crysis then you need to provide a link, not me. Oh and the PCGA is a p.r. group that tries to inflate pc gaming, and note that no such group was needed 10 years ago.
Anyways let's say that there are 200 million people out there that would consider buying a game like Crysis. Since Crysis didn't break 2 million that means that not even 1% of that demographic bothered to buy the game. That's a lousy demographic, especially given the hype and high scores that Crysis received.
That seems to be wrong, considering it is one of the fastest selling PC games in over a decade. Vandalvideo
I like how you use "fastest selling" and not "best selling" since you're probably aware it didn't get close in sales to older shooters like Half-life 2 and Doom 3. PC FPS sales have actually declined in the last decade. As I stated earlier pc gaming growth has been centered in casual and subscription based games.
Big companies usually switch platforms to make more money. I don't mourn the fact that EA isn't making games for me. I could care less. I could care less about Epic as well. I could care less about Blizzard at this point in time. I would take Ace over blizzard any day of the week.
You're not surprised that big companies are abandoning pc exclusives yet you also believe that there is a 200 million man market out there for them. Got it.
I gotta hit the road, but I'll reiterate my previous assertion that I made 3hrs. ago before all the spin started.
Basically:
1. Piracy is wrong. No matter how poor you are.
2. Piracy does hurt the industry. No matter how big or small the impact is.
3. Piracy begets more piracy. Lots of pirates burn the games and give them away or sell them.
Is PC gaming dying? Probably not, but it's not going to be like the glory days of PC gaming.
[QUOTE="ecao123"]
Oh yes, we were talking sales.
PC competitive games sales slaughter console competitive game sales.
gamecubepad
:|
What?
Name some current gen, "competitive" PC games that equal Halo 3 or MW2 in sales.
Tell me how MW2 is competitve at all. Competitve gamers scoff at it's very existence (like I said, rediculous weapon balance, killstreaks, perks, etc.). The last COD that was competitive was COD4 on PC with promod (no perk 1, stopping power perk 2, eavesdrop perk 3 (useless as nobody uses ingame VOIP for competition), 1 sniper per team, no ACOG, no Skorpion, no LMGs IIRC, etc.).
Halo 3? Well, it's more competitive than MW2, which says nothing at all. Yes, it has a small competitive gaming community, but any competitive gamer knows that PC is the home of FPS competitive gaming. Halo 3 competitive play will never reach the level of TF2, CSS, or even CS 1.6 for god's sake. Now add in lesser competitive FPS's (like COD4, which has fallen out of favor), and just about every RTS ever invented, and yes, PC competitive gaming trumps console competitive gaming by a longshot.
[QUOTE="hypoty"][QUOTE="XenogearsMaster"] Probably because the sales figures are extremely low.XenogearsMaster
How did you come to that conclusion?
"Steam is making us rich"
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/02/20/valve-steam-is-making-us-rich/1
Because they still don't want to release their sales figures... It's real simple logic.I'm sorry, but that's most dense use of 'logic' I have ever seen.
:lol: Are you guys serious? Do you expect us to buy the game of a developer who's spitting on us? Do you think Infinity Ward was expecting the most amazing PC Sales yet by mocking us? Use your heads guys. KHAndAnimeSo, the developer is spitting on you, but you will still spend 50 hours playing the game? People like you are what is killing PC games and I am glad.
[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]
also find it funny how you rip on PC but the second most pirated games was NSMBWii.
dc337
New Super Mario Brothers was 6th overall.
But more importantly most wii and xbox gamers pay for their games while most pc gamers do not. It's piracy rates that matter, not the mere existence of it. Downlplay the situation all you want but developers have taken notice.
A recent interview with the Crytek CEO: Licensing a PC-only engine was made difficult in the last few years due to the changing nature of the games market itself. Piracy hurt PC-only games in terms of sales figures, so publishers and developers moved away from making such titles.
http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/6326.html
Piracy is no where near as rampant as used game sales, which arguably hurt the developers much more.
[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]:lol: Are you guys serious? Do you expect us to buy the game of a developer who's spitting on us? Do you think Infinity Ward was expecting the most amazing PC Sales yet by mocking us? Use your heads guys. dinbSo, the developer is spitting on you, but you will still spend 50 hours playing the game? People like you are what is killing PC games and I am glad. i dont think it should have been pirated as much, but it did deserve less sales than it got. if the developer purposely make a game crap on a platform, why in the world would they expect people to buy it?
I like these threads, as I get to see people who know absolutely nothing about this particular topic flaunt their ignorance by tutting about PC gamer pirates whilst ignoring the console ones. This thread makes me glad I'm more of a PC gamer at heart.
Verge_6
I have to agree. Also, this is MW2 we are talking about. Many people signed petitions and boycots. Are all you PC haters surprised?
[QUOTE="dinb"][QUOTE="KHAndAnime"]:lol: Are you guys serious? Do you expect us to buy the game of a developer who's spitting on us? Do you think Infinity Ward was expecting the most amazing PC Sales yet by mocking us? Use your heads guys. ferret-gamerSo, the developer is spitting on you, but you will still spend 50 hours playing the game? People like you are what is killing PC games and I am glad. i dont think it should have been pirated as much, but it did deserve less sales than it got. if the developer purposely make a game crap on a platform, why in the world would they expect people to buy it? Think about what you are saying... you make PC gamers sound like either complete morons or extremely vile theives... if a game is trully crap, then don't play it. If you end up pirating it, then you are either a dumbass who plays crap games or a thief who doesn't have the balls to admit that he is stealing. So which is it then?
[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"][QUOTE="dinb"] So, the developer is spitting on you, but you will still spend 50 hours playing the game? People like you are what is killing PC games and I am glad.dinbi dont think it should have been pirated as much, but it did deserve less sales than it got. if the developer purposely make a game crap on a platform, why in the world would they expect people to buy it? Think about what you are saying... you make PC gamers sound like either complete morons or extremely vile theives... if a game is trully crap, then don't play it. If you end up pirating it, then you are either a dumbass who plays crap games or a thief who doesn't have the balls to admit that he is stealing. So which is it then?
Or someone who doesn't have the game available to them in any way, as in 90% of the worlds population. I think that he agrees with you that piracy in general is bad but he is also saying that less people should have bought the game anyways.
[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"][QUOTE="dinb"] So, the developer is spitting on you, but you will still spend 50 hours playing the game? People like you are what is killing PC games and I am glad.dinbi dont think it should have been pirated as much, but it did deserve less sales than it got. if the developer purposely make a game crap on a platform, why in the world would they expect people to buy it? Think about what you are saying... you make PC gamers sound like either complete morons or extremely vile theives... if a game is trully crap, then don't play it. If you end up pirating it, then you are either a dumbass who plays crap games or a thief who doesn't have the balls to admit that he is stealing. So which is it then? Or: -You're a gamer that wants to demo the game before buying it. -You're a gamer who heard the game sucks, but want to see for yourself before making judgments. -You can't afford to shell out $60, but want to experience it anyway. -Hate what the developer did to the online play, but don't think a 5-hour SP campaign is worth $60 You know, it's easy to make radical claims, then attack people for them. It's hard to make legitimate, logical arguments and back them up with facts. Please go attack your straw man in front of people who care.
[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"][QUOTE="dinb"] So, the developer is spitting on you, but you will still spend 50 hours playing the game? People like you are what is killing PC games and I am glad.dinbi dont think it should have been pirated as much, but it did deserve less sales than it got. if the developer purposely make a game crap on a platform, why in the world would they expect people to buy it? Think about what you are saying... you make PC gamers sound like either complete morons or extremely vile theives... if a game is trully crap, then don't play it. If you end up pirating it, then you are either a dumbass who plays crap games or a thief who doesn't have the balls to admit that he is stealing. So which is it then?
looks like someone needs to learn how to read:P. i said it didnt deserve as many sales as it got. i never said it should be pirated millions of times., infact i said the opposite.
Everything through Steam imo! :D Seriously though. As "sickening" as the report is, it's amazing to see companies like Valve thrive off the platform. Developers just have to be wise about their games on PC, and I'm not talking SecuROM protection, I'm talking online verification of your purchased game. Just like all Valve made games.-CheeseEater-
Steam is the only way to properly reduce piracy imo. Online verifications and linking games to accounts.
[QUOTE="dc337"]
[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]
also find it funny how you rip on PC but the second most pirated games was NSMBWii.
shakmaster13
New Super Mario Brothers was 6th overall.
But more importantly most wii and xbox gamers pay for their games while most pc gamers do not. It's piracy rates that matter, not the mere existence of it. Downlplay the situation all you want but developers have taken notice.
A recent interview with the Crytek CEO: Licensing a PC-only engine was made difficult in the last few years due to the changing nature of the games market itself. Piracy hurt PC-only games in terms of sales figures, so publishers and developers moved away from making such titles.
http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/6326.html
Piracy is no where near as rampant as used game sales, which arguably hurt the developers much more.
Who is arguing that? Pirates who want to try and rationalize piracy? A used copy represents a shared sale. A group of people own it over a few years. However it only takes a single pirated copy for millions to share it. It's not even close to comparable not to mention that one is illegal while the other is not. I also don't see devs leaving console games because of used game sales. I have seen quite a few long time pc devs move to multiplats because of piracy.
Piracy is a crime and it's morally wrong, no matter what the excuse, [...]
bachilders
Even if you were to download a pirated copy of a game you already legally purchased a physical copy for that was either lost, damaged or destroyed by hardware (some disc drives spin so fast they can shatter discs)? When you buy a game on PC, you pay for the CD-key and the legal right to use the software. Why should you have to buy another physical copy of a game you already bought when you still are legally entitled to using it?
Copyright infringement might be a crime, but the ethics regarding it are incredibly vague and not as absolute as you make it out to be.
EDIT: Services like Steam and Good Old Games allow you to re-download your owned games an infinite amount of times (and ironically, make unlimited physical and digital backups)... so why can't physical software be replaced free-of-charge?
[QUOTE="bachilders"]
Piracy is a crime and it's morally wrong, no matter what the excuse, [...]
foxhound_fox
Even if you were to download a pirated copy of a game you already legally purchased a physical copy for that was either lost, damaged or destroyed by hardware (some disc drives spin so fast they can shatter discs)? When you buy a game on PC, you pay for the CD-key and the legal right to use the software. Why should you have to buy another physical copy of a game you already bought when you still are legally entitled to using it?
Copyright infringement might be a crime, but the ethics regarding it are incredibly vague and not as absolute as you make it out to be. i had a situation like that. i bought crysis yet my pc wont recognize the disc so i was forced to download it.
>Copyright infringement might be a crime, but the ethics regarding it are incredibly vague and not as absolute as you make it out to be.There's nothing vague about taking someone's work without paying for it.
EDIT: Services like Steam and Good Old Games allow you to re-download your owned games an infinite amount of times (and ironically, make unlimited physical and digital backups)... so why can't physical software be replaced free-of-charge?foxhound_fox
You also don't have a right to a new physical copy of software you previously purchased. Like any product if you break or lose it you are responsible. The company does not have an eternal obligation to provide you with a new copy. Is taking care of your software really that difficult?
PC gamers like you are the absolute worst when it comes to having an entitlement mentality. You guys get what you deserve.
Piracy isnt killing the PC, look at all the upcoming high budget PC exclusives coming from developers other than Blizzard...wait a second.
There's nothing vague about taking someone's work without paying for it.[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]>Copyright infringement might be a crime, but the ethics regarding it are incredibly vague and not as absolute as you make it out to be.
EDIT: Services like Steam and Good Old Games allow you to re-download your owned games an infinite amount of times (and ironically, make unlimited physical and digital backups)... so why can't physical software be replaced free-of-charge?dc337
You also don't have a right to a new physical copy of software you previously purchased. Like any product if you break or lose it you are responsible. The company does not have an eternal obligation to provide you with a new copy. Is taking care of your software really that difficult?
PC gamers like you are the absolute worst when it comes to having an entitlement mentality. You guys get what you deserve.
In the majority of cases you pay for the right to play the game, not for the disk. Essentially you pay for the CD-key, account, or whatever. That is why Steam will allow you to download a game over and over.
Disk based console games don't work the same way as PC based disk games.
There's nothing vague about taking someone's work without paying for it.
You also don't have a right to a new physical copy of software you previously purchased. Like any product if you break or lose it you are responsible. The company does not have an eternal obligation to provide you with a new copy. Is taking care of your software really that difficult?
PC gamers like you are the absolute worst when it comes to having an entitlement mentality. You guys get what you deserve.dc337
How am I the consumer responsible if my disc drive shatters my disc? GOG guarentees that they will always provide you with a new copy whenever you want it. Why do you think DD has become so popular on PC?
I love how you completely ignore my point. The justification I mentioned is incredibly supportive of the vagueness of the copyright infringement and copyright debate. You wouldn't be pissed if your 360 broke your game and Microsoft or the publisher/developer refused to replace it free of charge?
There was a cIass action lawsuit against Microsoft and the 360 for early launch 360's that scratched discs without possible user error, and Microsoft stepped up and replaced them all free of charge. There is no reason why a company that licenses you the right to use a piece of software, not to always be obligated to provide you with a copy of that software. You aren't paying for the disc... you are paying for license and the work that went into the game. You even said that yourself. A disc costs a few pennies... and shipping costs a couple dollars. Why should you have to spend another $60 on a game you already are legally licensed to use?
There's nothing vague about taking someone's work without paying for it.[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]>Copyright infringement might be a crime, but the ethics regarding it are incredibly vague and not as absolute as you make it out to be.
EDIT: Services like Steam and Good Old Games allow you to re-download your owned games an infinite amount of times (and ironically, make unlimited physical and digital backups)... so why can't physical software be replaced free-of-charge?dc337
You also don't have a right to a new physical copy of software you previously purchased. Like any product if you break or lose it you are responsible. The company does not have an eternal obligation to provide you with a new copy. Is taking care of your software really that difficult?
PC gamers like you are the absolute worst when it comes to having an entitlement mentality. You guys get what you deserve. actually it is not illegal to redownload the software if you have the CD key. call EA or microsoft and they will agree. As i mentioned before, you buy a liscense to use the software, not the actual software.
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