pc gaming superiority

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SajuukSW

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#101 SajuukSW
Member since 2011 • 107 Posts

[QUOTE="SajuukSW"][QUOTE="lespaul1919"]

name a good PC game from the last year. please.

lespaul1919

Shogun II, Witcher 2, Retribution, Men of War, Capsized, Terraria, Frozen Synapse?

literally would never play any of those.

That's nice, what do you play?
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lespaul1919

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#102 lespaul1919
Member since 2003 • 7074 Posts

[QUOTE="lespaul1919"]

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll good one guys. RTS lol.

cain006

How about Stalker CoP then? It's a FPS.

have that, love that. meant since then...............

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Mograine

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#103 Mograine
Member since 2006 • 3666 Posts

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll good one guys. RTS lol.

lespaul1919

You asked for a good game, we said just that. If you can't tell just how good SC2 is then you need a reality check.

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meetroid8

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#104 meetroid8
Member since 2005 • 21152 Posts

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll good one guys. RTS lol.

lespaul1919
So RTS games don't count because...?
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GeneralShowzer

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#106 GeneralShowzer
Member since 2010 • 11598 Posts

[QUOTE="cain006"]

[QUOTE="lespaul1919"]

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll good one guys. RTS lol.

lespaul1919

How about Stalker CoP then? It's a FPS.

have that, love that. meant since then...............

Amnesia, is a Horror Adventure game. Arma II is a FPS Civilization V is a TBS Mount and Blade : Warband, is a RPG.
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mitu123

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#107 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts
[QUOTE="lespaul1919"]

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll good one guys. RTS lol.

meetroid8
So RTS games don't count because...?

Because he doesn't like them.D=
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caseystryker

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#108 caseystryker
Member since 2005 • 5421 Posts

PC gaming may technically be better, but consoles are more fun IMO.

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lespaul1919

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#109 lespaul1919
Member since 2003 • 7074 Posts

[QUOTE="lespaul1919"]

[QUOTE="SajuukSW"] Shogun II, Witcher 2, Retribution, Men of War, Capsized, Terraria, Frozen Synapse?SajuukSW

literally would never play any of those.

That's nice, what do you play?

quake
UT
warsow
cs
halo
BF
CoD (dispite my distaste for it....its popular eh)
gears
alan wake
GTA/RDR/LA Noire/anything rockstar
portal
crysis
resident evil
doom
condemned
riddick

Next game I get on PC will be BF3. That looks NICE. very NICE. but then, it's on consoles too......so doesn't pertain to this argument.

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bbkkristian

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#110 bbkkristian
Member since 2008 • 14971 Posts
Yeah, PC is overrated. You can only buy games that are older than your computer, because every game released after you'll need to upgrade your computer. I find that Really annoying, I can't play Sims 3 on my computer and I got it 3 years ago. PC gaming is too expensive.
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caseystryker

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#111 caseystryker
Member since 2005 • 5421 Posts
Yeah, PC is overrated. You can only buy games that are older than your computer, because every game released after you'll need to upgrade your computer. I find that Really annoying, I can't play Sims 3 on my computer and I got it 3 years ago. PC gaming is too expensive.bbkkristian
Joke??
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lespaul1919

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#112 lespaul1919
Member since 2003 • 7074 Posts

[QUOTE="lespaul1919"]

[QUOTE="cain006"]

How about Stalker CoP then? It's a FPS.

GeneralShowzer

have that, love that. meant since then...............

Amnesia, is a Horror Adventure game. Arma II is a FPS Civilization V is a TBS Mount and Blade : Warband, is a RPG.

thanks! forgot about amnesia!!! I'll get that. can't believe I forgot about that game. I do love horror games (and movies).

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SajuukSW

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#113 SajuukSW
Member since 2011 • 107 Posts

[QUOTE="SajuukSW"][QUOTE="lespaul1919"]

literally would never play any of those.

lespaul1919

That's nice, what do you play?

quake
UT
warsow
cs
halo
BF
CoD (dispite my distaste for it....its popular eh)
gears
alan wake
GTA/RDR/LA Noire/anything rockstar
portal
crysis
resident evil
doom
condemned
riddick

Next game I get on PC will be BF3. That looks NICE. very NICE. but then, it's on consoles too......so doesn't pertain to this argument.

Ah, i see, your taste ranges from shooters...to other shooters
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mitu123

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#114 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

[QUOTE="SajuukSW"][QUOTE="lespaul1919"]

literally would never play any of those.

lespaul1919

That's nice, what do you play?

Next game I get on PC will be BF3. That looks NICE. very NICE. but then, it's on consoles too......so doesn't pertain to this argument.

PC version will get exclusive features if that would help.

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agpickle

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#115 agpickle
Member since 2006 • 3293 Posts

Yeah, PC is overrated. You can only buy games that are older than your computer, because every game released after you'll need to upgrade your computer. I find that Really annoying, I can't play Sims 3 on my computer and I got it 3 years ago. PC gaming is too expensive.bbkkristian

Let me guess, your computer was $600 at Best Buy and has integrated graphics. Besides that, you couldn't be more wrong.

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bbkkristian

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#116 bbkkristian
Member since 2008 • 14971 Posts
[QUOTE="bbkkristian"]Yeah, PC is overrated. You can only buy games that are older than your computer, because every game released after you'll need to upgrade your computer. I find that Really annoying, I can't play Sims 3 on my computer and I got it 3 years ago. PC gaming is too expensive.caseystryker
Joke??

Whatever floats your boat.
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mitu123

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#117 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

Yeah, PC is overrated. You can only buy games that are older than your computer, because every game released after you'll need to upgrade your computer. I find that Really annoying, I can't play Sims 3 on my computer and I got it 3 years ago. PC gaming is too expensive.bbkkristian
Joke post confirmed.:P

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lespaul1919

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#118 lespaul1919
Member since 2003 • 7074 Posts

for the most part, yes.

now and again I'll get odd games like LIMBO too. I just hate classic style RPG's and RTS's. wayyyyy too boring for me.

lol, I got my PC nearly 3 years ago and it would pillage sims 3. not that I would ever spend money on that crap.

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TheOtherTheoG

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#119 TheOtherTheoG
Member since 2010 • 2287 Posts

it has more high scoring exclusives this gen alone than all three consoles combined.

CaseyWegner
I felt like I needed something to oppose, so: (high scoring games = games which scored over 87 on gamerankings, the number and website aren't biased, I chose GR because it's much easier to sort games with that than Metacritic or GS, and I got bored by the time I got to 87, and it sort of turned into some primeval muck on all four systems by that point, eg. The Sims 3) PC - 15 exclusives (Company of Heroes, Starcraft 2, WoW Cataclysm, WoW the Burning Crusade, Crysis, Civilization V, World in Conflict, GTR 2, Shogun 2 Total War, Empire Total War?, Supreme Commander, Football Manager 2011, The Witcher 2, Ammesia The Dark Descent, Medieval II Total War) PS3 - 15 exclusives (Uncharted 2, Little Big Planet, Metal Gear Solid 4, Little Big Planet 2, God of War III, MLB 11: The Show, Killzone 2, Demon's Souls, Uncharted, MLB 09: The Show, Heavy Rain, Ratchet and Clank Future, Wipeout HD, flower, Valkyria Chronicles 360 - 9 exclusives (Gears of War, Halo 3, Gears 2, Forza 3, Halo:Reach, Limbo, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, Forza 2, Project Gotham Racing 3, Fable II) Wii - 9 exclusives (Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Twilight Princess, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Kirby's Epic Yarn, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Donkey Kong Country Returns) 15+9+9 = 33 33 is bigger than 15 Therefore, you are incorrect.
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nameless12345

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#120 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]

it has more high scoring exclusives this gen alone than all three consoles combined.

TheOtherTheoG

I felt like I needed something to oppose, so: (high scoring games = games which scored over 87 on gamerankings, the number and website aren't biased, I chose GR because it's much easier to sort games with that than Metacritic or GS, and I got bored by the time I got to 87, and it sort of turned into some primeval muck on all four systems by that point, eg. The Sims 3) PC - 15 exclusives (Company of Heroes, Starcraft 2, WoW Cataclysm, WoW the Burning Crusade, Crysis, Civilization V, World in Conflict, GTR 2, Shogun 2 Total War, Empire Total War?, Supreme Commander, Football Manager 2011, The Witcher 2, Ammesia The Dark Descent, Medieval II Total War) PS3 - 15 exclusives (Uncharted 2, Little Big Planet, Metal Gear Solid 4, Little Big Planet 2, God of War III, MLB 11: The Show, Killzone 2, Demon's Souls, Uncharted, MLB 09: The Show, Heavy Rain, Ratchet and Clank Future, Wipeout HD, flower, Valkyria Chronicles 360 - 9 exclusives (Gears of War, Halo 3, Gears 2, Forza 3, Halo:Reach, Limbo, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, Forza 2, Project Gotham Racing 3, Fable II) Wii - 9 exclusives (Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Twilight Princess, Super Smash Bros Brawl, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Kirby's Epic Yarn, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Donkey Kong Country Returns) 15+9+9 = 33 33 is bigger than 15 Therefore, you are incorrect.

The PC is loosing AAA exclusives left and right anyway. The Witcher 2 is comming to consoles and there is a chance Diablo 3 gets ported too. So the only big exclusives are games that wouldn't sell on consoles (like RTS and MMO).

But I personally don't really care which system has the most exclusives anyway. I care for good, well-made and fun games.

If PC gaming would be as good as it was ten years ago I'd gladly invest in a new rig.

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Filthybastrd

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#121 Filthybastrd
Member since 2009 • 7124 Posts

[QUOTE="Arach666"]

[QUOTE="lespaul1919"]

yet no games worth playing. odd.

lespaul1919

If having more high scoring games than the consoles still doesn´t make it have games worth playing,then imagine the consoles with less high scoring exclusives. :lol:

then why does my PC lay unused for years?!?! The only game I still play on it is from 2003. :-/

yet the 360 gets played almost daily. crazy.

plus, scores mean nothing to me if I don't like the game. any RTS or RPG or SIM or MMO might as well not even exist.

Insistency on not giving it a proper chance? It might even be a wise move, I for one think nearly all console games look downright bad these days. The thing about unseeing is that you can't.

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DillonShwing

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#122 DillonShwing
Member since 2010 • 565 Posts

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

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SajuukSW

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#123 SajuukSW
Member since 2011 • 107 Posts

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games.

DillonShwing
Well, technically speaking...they do
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skrat_01

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#124 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts
There's some massive advantages the PC has, simple as that. Not everyone is going to like them, not everyone is going bother with them, and not everyone is going to like gaming on the system.
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ChubbyGuy40

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#125 ChubbyGuy40
Member since 2007 • 26442 Posts

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

DillonShwing

Its funny because consoles still can't match a game made in 2007 (And they never will.)

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mitu123

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#126 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

DillonShwing
Crysis with mods is more than 1 gen.
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skrat_01

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#127 skrat_01
Member since 2007 • 33767 Posts

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

DillonShwing
Considering the actual hardware specifications of PC games, and that 1080p native is a standard for today's PC gaming, and the technical limits of many games, the PC is well ahead. Game on a decent gaming computer and the difference in games is usually very noticeable, which becomes increased when games have been designed or specifically developed to take advantage of PC hardware superiority.
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caseystryker

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#128 caseystryker
Member since 2005 • 5421 Posts
[QUOTE="DillonShwing"]

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

mitu123
Crysis with mods is more than 1 gen.

All I ever used was CCC level 6 mod and while it did look nice, it certainly wasn't more than 1 generation ahead of consoles.
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mitu123

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#129 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts
[QUOTE="mitu123"][QUOTE="DillonShwing"]

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

caseystryker
Crysis with mods is more than 1 gen.

All I ever used was CCC level 6 mod and while it did look nice, it certainly wasn't more than 1 generation ahead of consoles.

Use a different mod.
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Nerkcon

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#130 Nerkcon
Member since 2006 • 4707 Posts

[QUOTE="DillonShwing"]

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

ChubbyGuy40

Its funny because consoles still can't match a game made in 2007 (And they never will.)

Its such a shame that PC games after 07 can't beat a game in 07, not even its squeal. And according to you console hardware will never get any better so I guess they never will! :D Remember when you hermits use to say console gaming didn't effect PC gaming at all? Well I just can't help but notice you guys don't say that anymore.
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locopatho

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#131 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts

[QUOTE="DillonShwing"]

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

ChubbyGuy40

Its funny because consoles still can't match a game made in 2007 (And they never will.)

Course they will.
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agpickle

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#132 agpickle
Member since 2006 • 3293 Posts

[QUOTE="mitu123"][QUOTE="DillonShwing"]

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

caseystryker

Crysis with mods is more than 1 gen.

All I ever used was CCC level 6 mod and while it did look nice, it certainly wasn't more than 1 generation ahead of consoles.

Try the Maximum Immersion mod.

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caseystryker

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#133 caseystryker
Member since 2005 • 5421 Posts
[QUOTE="caseystryker"][QUOTE="mitu123"] Crysis with mods is more than 1 gen.mitu123
All I ever used was CCC level 6 mod and while it did look nice, it certainly wasn't more than 1 generation ahead of consoles.

Use a different mod.

What do you suggest?
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T_REX305

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#134 T_REX305
Member since 2010 • 11304 Posts

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

PC gamers are just more vocal than your average console gamer.

For first-person shooters, strategy games, certain kinds of action games - I'd take the mouse and keyboard.

For racing games and fighting games, I want a controller.

This is coming from a PC gamer, by the way.

SamiRDuran

for racing games you want a wheel and for fighting games an arcade stick. plenty of them available for pc.

There are also plenty of them for Consoles as well.

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Filthybastrd

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#135 Filthybastrd
Member since 2009 • 7124 Posts

[QUOTE="mitu123"][QUOTE="DillonShwing"]

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

caseystryker

Crysis with mods is more than 1 gen.

All I ever used was CCC level 6 mod and while it did look nice, it certainly wasn't more than 1 generation ahead of consoles.

Sure i was. Not that I get why'd you'd use level 6 CCC but you must have noticed how Crysis 2 had weak physics and tons of invisible walls.

Edit: IF you sincerely want a mod seup that I find nice, PM me and I'll answer you eventually.

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caseystryker

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#136 caseystryker
Member since 2005 • 5421 Posts

[QUOTE="caseystryker"][QUOTE="mitu123"] Crysis with mods is more than 1 gen.Filthybastrd

All I ever used was CCC level 6 mod and while it did look nice, it certainly wasn't more than 1 generation ahead of consoles.

Sure i was. Not that I get why'd you'd use level 6 CCC but you must have noticed how Crysis 2 had weak physics and tons of invisible walls.

I'm open for suggestions. Level 6 was just for screenshots.

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mitu123

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#137 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts

[QUOTE="mitu123"][QUOTE="caseystryker"] All I ever used was CCC level 6 mod and while it did look nice, it certainly wasn't more than 1 generation ahead of consoles.caseystryker
Use a different mod.

What do you suggest?

What the above user said, which leads to this:

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XanderZane

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#138 XanderZane
Member since 2006 • 5174 Posts
Yes, there are fantastic games here there and everywhere. I don't see some sort of vast gulf between the best console games and the best PC games.locopatho
The only thing the PC has over console is better graphics, mods, more ram and a better CPU processor. In terms of fun, gameplay, control and sound, it's not always better of the PC. A lot of other stuff is just personal preference. If you must have the best looking game at all cost with lots of mods, go with the PC. Otherwise, the game consoles are enough,
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MK-Professor

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#139 MK-Professor
Member since 2009 • 4218 Posts

Guys I was just curious out there if any of you think that the "greatness" and "superiority" of PC gaming has been greatly inflated by its fanboys? I play both PC and console games and while I find games on both platforms to be fun, I just dont see this vast superiority that the hardcore PC gamers do. I know that my lack of having a true gaming rig has something to do with my opinion, but with games like ME2, BFBC2, Black Ops, MW 2, Crysis 2, DAO/DA2, Brink, FNV and others I simply dont see the advantage to playing them on PC over console. Your thoughts?

kungfuchaos

time to learn the advantage of playing this games on pc.

PC - 1920x1200, 60fps, 4xAA, 16xAF, high settings, large FOV, dedicated servers, K/M

consoles - 1280x720, 25-30fps, 2xAA, 0xAF, low- medium settings, small FOV, p2p, controller

as you can see massive differences.

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lespaul1919

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#140 lespaul1919
Member since 2003 • 7074 Posts

[QUOTE="DillonShwing"]

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

ChubbyGuy40

Its funny because consoles still can't match a game made in 2007 (And they never will.)

graphics don't mean much. there are plenty of games on consoles that are better than crysis.

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Rude_Bwoii

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#141 Rude_Bwoii
Member since 2011 • 523 Posts

[QUOTE="SamiRDuran"][QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

PC gamers are just more vocal than your average console gamer.

For first-person shooters, strategy games, certain kinds of action games - I'd take the mouse and keyboard.

For racing games and fighting games, I want a controller.

This is coming from a PC gamer, by the way.

T_REX305

for racing games you want a wheel and for fighting games an arcade stick. plenty of them available for pc.

There are also plenty of them for Consoles as well.

The the pc owns racing and you can use a gamepad on pc also as well as your hdtv if you want.

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Filthybastrd

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#142 Filthybastrd
Member since 2009 • 7124 Posts

[QUOTE="Filthybastrd"]

[QUOTE="caseystryker"] All I ever used was CCC level 6 mod and while it did look nice, it certainly wasn't more than 1 generation ahead of consoles.caseystryker

Sure i was. Not that I get why'd you'd use level 6 CCC but you must have noticed how Crysis 2 had weak physics and tons of invisible walls.

I'm open for suggestions. Level 6 was just for screenshots.

Here's a few screenies directly from Steam. they're completely unmodded and in crappy jpg quality.

I can understand how screenshots might not look a gen ahead compared to console bullshots but the beauty of still screens is that performance is'n a factor, neither is the actual rendered resolution, draw distance or physics

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ChubbyGuy40

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#143 ChubbyGuy40
Member since 2007 • 26442 Posts

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]

[QUOTE="DillonShwing"]

A PC fanboy on these very forums once told me that PC graphics are 7 generations ahead of consoles. I lol'd. The best looking PC games don't even look 1 generation better than PS3 & 360 games. Yes, PC games generally look better than Console games but PC fanboys over-exaggerate a little bit.

lespaul1919

Its funny because consoles still can't match a game made in 2007 (And they never will.)

graphics don't mean much. there are plenty of games on consoles that are better than crysis.

Your opinion, but thanks for dragging that off topic when the discussion was about graphics.

My opinion is that Crysis is the best FPS this gen by far. I can't get anything like it on consoles nor do I get games with as much fun or replayability (Especially do to mods.)

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hkymike

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#144 hkymike
Member since 2003 • 2425 Posts
My sig will say it all
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sethman410

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#145 sethman410
Member since 2008 • 2967 Posts
[QUOTE="argetlam00"]

[QUOTE="The_Capitalist"]

PC gamers are just more vocal than your average console gamer.

For first-person shooters, strategy games, certain kinds of action games - I'd take the mouse and keyboard.

For racing games and fighting games, I want a controller.

This is coming from a PC gamer, by the way.

Agreed. However there are other factors you must take into consideration. Like mods. I would consider Oblivion one of the worst games I ever played without its modding community to be honest. Vannilla Oblivion was SO **** BORING FOR ME but the mods made it one of the greatest titles I ever bought.

Mods make a huge difference to an enjoyment of a game. A game with a modding community can extend its lifespam indefinately and basically be transfromed into many other WHOLE GAMES, not just mods of that game.

Yeah. I wouldn't be able to enjoy some of the games I had without modding community. To be honest, this should be a huge factor. Not a minor factor. DLC on consoles
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agpickle

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#146 agpickle
Member since 2006 • 3293 Posts

My sig will say it all hkymike

"Xbox 360 & Playstation 3 > PC"

Thanks for enlightening me. :roll:


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Cranler

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#147 Cranler
Member since 2005 • 8809 Posts

Guys I was just curious out there if any of you think that the "greatness" and "superiority" of PC gaming has been greatly inflated by its fanboys? I play both PC and console games and while I find games on both platforms to be fun, I just dont see this vast superiority that the hardcore PC gamers do. I know that my lack of having a true gaming rig has something to do with my opinion, but with games like ME2, BFBC2, Black Ops, MW 2, Crysis 2, DAO/DA2, Brink, FNV and others I simply dont see the advantage to playing them on PC over console. Your thoughts?

kungfuchaos

FNV has a ton of mods. Black Ops has dedicated servers. BFBC 2 has dedicated servers on console but you dont get to pick the server. The average pc gamer is more likely to play the objective in mp as opposed to treating every gametype like its team dm.

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sethman410

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#148 sethman410
Member since 2008 • 2967 Posts
Gamespot, please do me a favor. FIX THIS SITE. I CANT EDIT MY POST ABOVE.
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locopatho

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#149 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
My sig will say it all hkymike
Black Ops is fun :)
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sethman410

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#150 sethman410
Member since 2008 • 2967 Posts
[QUOTE="hkymike"]My sig will say it all locopatho
Black Ops is fun :)

Terrible gameplay and this is coming from a hardcore cod fan.