PC=/=360 (alan wake related)

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Bebi_vegeta

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#201 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Like ATI Xenos, NVIDIA Geforce 8600 GT/8700/9500M/9600M/9650M has 8 ROPS which limits the fillrates and frame rates at high resolutions e.g. greater than 1280x800.

Both Geforce 8600 GT(G84)/9600GT(G94) (CUDA Computing capability 1.1 device) and Geforce 8800GTX (G80, CUDA Computing capability 1.0 device) are CUDA processors, but CUDA 2.0 only supports GPUs that have the compute capability of 1.1 and higher. GT200 has CUDA computing capability 1.3 which supports DP FP. CUDA Computing capability 1.0 device has missing features e.g. support for Atomic functions.

ronvalencia

Euh... why are we talking about Cuda again?

Geforce 9600 and Geforce 8800 GTX are in same the generation. The transition is not like Geforce 7 to Geforce 8.

That's why it depends what generation of cards we are talking... new archetecture vs die shrink.

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#202 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts

[QUOTE="edwise18"]In the end both versions will look similar that's the important part. Obviously a high end pc is going to give you better framerate, higher resolution, better textures, better draw distance, but when it's all said and done they will look essentially the same.obamanian

Exactly

And better image filtering... but yeah, I guess once you eliminate all those features, you get the console version of the game.

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horrowhip

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#203 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts
[QUOTE="horrowhip"]

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] Xenos can do FP10 HDR + MSAA. Geforce 7900 can't even do FP HDR + MSAA. ronvalencia

Yes.... the 7900 CAN do those things.

Prove it. HalfLife 2's HDR + MSAA uses an integer based HDR. Geforce 7900 can't do Multi-Sample AA and OpenEXR HDR at the same time.

It can do both at the same time the performance would just suck.

Does not make a difference anyway when you consider that not ONE SINGLE 360 game does 128-Bit HDR.

NOT ONE. Period.

So why you tout that as some sort of advantage, when clearly it would crush the performance, is absolutely beyond me.

Also, didn't you read my post directly above the one you quoted?

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ronvalencia

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#204 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts

It can do both at the same time the performance would just suck.horrowhip
Name that example. Remember SSAA != MSAA.
Does not make a difference anyway when you consider that not ONE SINGLE 360 game does 128-Bit HDR. horrowhip
I state FP10 (or 40bit) HDR + MSAA for Xenos. Did you miss it?

64bit HDR is 16FP+16FP+16FP+16FP

128bit HDR is 32FP+32FP+32FP+32FP.

G70 can do HDR via LogLuv HDR method aka NAO32 HDR.

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#205 muscleserge
Member since 2005 • 3307 Posts

[QUOTE="All_that_is_Man"]alan wake doesn't even look good, gameplay wise and graphicsBebi_vegeta

Indeed it's ugly...

looks a little like clear sky
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#206 AdrianWerner
Member since 2003 • 28441 Posts

[QUOTE="edwise18"]In the end both versions will look similar that's the important part. Obviously a high end pc is going to give you better framerate, higher resolution, better textures, better draw distance, but when it's all said and done they will look essentially the same.obamanian

Exactly

It would mean Remedy is getting lazy though, it's inexcusable to not have PC version look significaly better than 360 one.

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horrowhip

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#207 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts
i am sorry, I missed you saying FP10. You(or someone else) were talking about 128 bit HDR earlier... And I kept replying without really processing your posts.
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#208 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts

[QUOTE="horrowhip"] It can do both at the same time the performance would just suck.ronvalencia

Name that example. Remember SSAA != MSAA.

There are no examples. Technically it is within the feature set of the GeForce 7000 series but performance would be so absolutely terrible that it isn't feasible to do it in real-time. But it isn't a DX10 feature(which is what I was talking about to begin with, unless you changed the subject like you did with the FP10 HDR) to allow FP HDR and MSAA at the same time. That is more a feature of the eDRAM being used as a buffer than any particular features of the hardware within the Xenos.

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#209 deactivated-5dd711115e664
Member since 2005 • 8956 Posts
[QUOTE="ZIMdoom"][QUOTE="gamer7890"]

First of all ALAN WAKE game footage is DIRECT X10, something that the 360 does not use. ALAN WAKE footage that has been shown is running DX10 on one of the most powerful PCs in the world (dont believe me? go watch the 1st alan wake tech demo) So please stop posting and claiming that the 360 will be able to do that, because it WILL NOT. ALAN WAKE has not even been shown off on the 360 yet, so no more crazy graphic claims please.

PS: dont post PC footage for any game and claim its 360s, because thats just annoying

McdonaIdsGuy

I don't think any of the latest in-game footage looks that great anyway. So I couldn't care less if it is PC or 360 pics...they look weak.

Looks weak because is not on ps3 right?

WHen the game was first announced it was supposed to also be on PS3...and I thought it looked weak back then too. I've never understood the hype for Alan Wake because nothing I've ever seen has merited the crazy hype this game has been getting.

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#210 deactivated-5dd711115e664
Member since 2005 • 8956 Posts

[QUOTE="All_that_is_Man"]alan wake doesn't even look good, gameplay wise and graphicsBebi_vegeta

Indeed it's ugly...

Alan Wake is a first person looker now? I could have swore you play the game with a character walking around.

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#211 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45749 Posts

PC gamers best buy a new or update their rig or someone else using a more powerful PC may be enjoying better visuals and ya know how that just ruins the game for ya. :twisted:

Anywho, the game should look just dandy on 360 and dare I say, better then those new PC's bought in 2005 for $399.99.

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#212 clone01
Member since 2003 • 29845 Posts
[QUOTE="obamanian"][QUOTE="Xalaten"]

Bethesda said there wouldn't be a huge difference between the 360, PS3 and PC versions of Fallout 3.

How'd that work out?

It's called marketing double-speak. They ALWAYS say there will be little or no difference with EVERY game. Then reality hits on release day.

Actually Fallout 3 on my 360 looks amazing, i do not know what you are talking about really, you are trying to suggest that minor differences are so important, that i would leave the pad controls and ease of use i love on 360, to frustrate myself on a PC, just to have a bit crisper image that i would never notice even side by side ?

Nope, sorry, i do not care that much for tiny graphical differences, only the most hardcore of graphics whores do, i love great visuals and 360 gives them to me, 99% same as on PC, that is what i care about

again, you talk about controls, but you can use a 360 gamepad on a PC.
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#213 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="All_that_is_Man"]alan wake doesn't even look good, gameplay wise and graphicsZIMdoom

Indeed it's ugly...

Alan Wake is a first person looker now? I could have swore you play the game with a character walking around.

Alan wake is a open world... maybe you should look at the tech demo...

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Vandalvideo

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#214 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
Alan wake is a open world... maybe you should look at the tech demo... Bebi_vegeta
I've seen the tech demo, and tech demos aren't exactly a great representation of what the final product will be. THere are a lot of problems iwth doing an open world horor game. The plot elements won't unfold in a succint order and it will ruin the overall story, as much of a rip off of Silent Hill as it is.
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deactivated-5f4694ac412a8

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#215 deactivated-5f4694ac412a8
Member since 2005 • 8599 Posts
We all know the PC is the greatest thing in existance already.
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#216 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]Alan wake is a open world... maybe you should look at the tech demo... Vandalvideo
I've seen the tech demo, and tech demos aren't exactly a great representation of what the final product will be. THere are a lot of problems iwth doing an open world horor game. The plot elements won't unfold in a succint order and it will ruin the overall story, as much of a rip off of Silent Hill as it is.

Well the tech demo is only to show off the graphic...

As for the rest, only time will tell what this game finaly unveils.

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#217 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
As for the rest, only time will tell what this game finaly unveils. Bebi_vegeta
Time is fine and dandy, but they simply cannot get past the trappings of the genre. It won't be open world. If it is, it will be a failure of a story.
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#218 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]Alan wake is a open world... maybe you should look at the tech demo... Vandalvideo
I've seen the tech demo, and tech demos aren't exactly a great representation of what the final product will be. THere are a lot of problems iwth doing an open world horor game. The plot elements won't unfold in a succint order and it will ruin the overall story, as much of a rip off of Silent Hill as it is.

considering the plot elements will unfold based on a day-night cycle I fail to see how it will ruin the story....

Vandal, you clearly don't know anything about the game so trying to talk about it will only end with you making a fool out of yourself. Unless of course you would like an explanation of what it is and how it will work based on what we know so far. I can explain it if I really need to.

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#219 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]As for the rest, only time will tell what this game finaly unveils. Vandalvideo
Time is fine and dandy, but they simply cannot get past the trappings of the genre. It won't be open world. If it is, it will be a failure of a story.

how do you know that? You don't even know anything about the game beyond what you saw in the tech demo....

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#220 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]Alan wake is a open world... maybe you should look at the tech demo... horrowhip

I've seen the tech demo, and tech demos aren't exactly a great representation of what the final product will be. THere are a lot of problems iwth doing an open world horor game. The plot elements won't unfold in a succint order and it will ruin the overall story, as much of a rip off of Silent Hill as it is.

considering the plot elements will unfold based on a day-night cycle I fail to see how it will ruin the story....

Vandal, you clearly don't know anything about the game so trying to talk about it will only end with you making a fool out of yourself. Unless of course you would like an explanation of what it is and how it will work based on what we know so far. I can explain it if I really need to.

I'm speaking from the perspective of a long time horror gamer. One of the largest trappings of the genre is creating a universe far more believeable than anything any other genre tries to create. One of the side effects of that are highly scripted events in tightly nit areas in order to create a sense of urgency and dread. When you have an open world you run into all kinds of logistical problems in creating a living, breathing world. That is one of the primary problems with the concept of an open world horror game. You run the risk of lots of sections of the game becomming completely lifeless or lacking in personality and horror.
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#221 deactivated-5dd711115e664
Member since 2005 • 8956 Posts

Alan wake is a open world... maybe you should look at the tech demo...

Bebi_vegeta

YOu clearly failed to understand my point. If you want to brag about graphics...maybe show an actual clip of gameplay instead of potentially doctored tech demos or rendered concept shots. Gameplay shots are those with an actual character and THINGS HAPPENING in them.

Because if Tech Demos were all we needed to look at to brag about graphics, we may as well go back to posting pics from the original tech demos for Killzone 2.

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#222 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Alan wake is a open world... maybe you should look at the tech demo...

ZIMdoom

YOu clearly failed to understand my point. If you want to brag about graphics...maybe show an actual clip of gameplay instead of potentially doctored tech demos or rendered concept shots. Gameplay shots are those with an actual character and THINGS HAPPENING in them.

Because if Tech Demos were all we needed to look at to brag about graphics, we may as well go back to posting pics from the original tech demos for Killzone 2.

there is a difference between Real-time demonstrations and CGI target renders... Which is what makes your comments about looking back at the Killzone 2 "tech demo(really a CGI Target Render)" completely incorrect.

Real-time screenshots illustrate how the final product will look.

That from the most recent batch of screenshots.

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#223 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts

I'm speaking from the perspective of a long time horror gamer. One of the largest trappings of the genre is creating a universe far more believeable than anything any other genre tries to create. One of the side effects of that are highly scripted events in tightly nit areas in order to create a sense of urgency and dread. When you have an open world you run into all kinds of logistical problems in creating a living, breathing world. That is one of the primary problems with the concept of an open world horror game. You run the risk of lots of sections of the game becomming completely lifeless or lacking in personality and horror. Vandalvideo
We... the first thing you got wrong was assuming that it was a Survival Horror game.

It is not. It is a Psychological Action Thriller. Not so much a horror game but rather a thriller.

Think Steven King books almost. They aren't so much horror stories as they are psychological thrillers that mess with your mind.

Here is a modified version of my post from Gametrailers a while back.

Alan Wake is a Psychological Thriller made by Remedy(makers of Max Payne). Set in Bright Falls, a "perfect" little small town in the Northwestern United States(Washington). Alan Wake is a writer who bases his books off of his dreams. Anyway, his fiancee, Alice, disappears without a trace and Alan Wake begins suffering from insomnia. He moves to Bright Falls to go to a clinic for insomnia. He meets a woman who looks just like his fiancee, and starts having nightmares. He starts writing a book based on his nightmares, but then things from his book start coming to life. From a story side, this can be played around with in such a way that no other game can really compare. They will be able to play with the idea of what is real and what is just his insanity. Keep the player guessing and keep Alan guessing as you try to figure out what is happening.


Now, on the gameplay side, they have talked about a lot more than people really know about off the top of their heads, but what HAS been talked about is extremely interesting. Light plays an integral part of the gameplay because all the "nightmares" are vulnerable to light. The creative use of light is the primary gameplay element. Because the game has a Day-Night Cycle, they allow a shift in gameplay for every "day." Daytime will be you going around town doing things for the towns people, trying to find out what is going on, and setting up traps for night(Yes, I said setting up traps. This is one of the more interesting gameplay elements because it allows you to really plan your survival. Setting up light traps where you can trap or kill enemies that are otherwise to difficult to kill will be a huge gameplay element). Night is you against your nightmares, trying to survive. Running away, bunkering in a heavily fortified area, fighting head on... The way you deal with the night portion of the game is largely up to you. And since the game is open world, you really are free to use the environment and such to your advantage. The game controls the day-night cycle via plot events but the overall idea of day being merely a preparation for night stays intact.


In terms of pacing, they are going for a TV Season structure with 13-16 "episodes(each level of the storyline)" making up a "Season(The game)". And within this, they have talked about how each episode won't necessarily be a large number of enemies, but rather there is a possibility that you will face a single really tough enemy. In this manner you sort of get a Shadow of the Colossus type structure where you need to discover how to win. Rather than having the environment be a "level" the nightmare in each Episode is your "level" and you really need to discover how to survive and kill each nightmare.

Now, how much of this makes it into the final product and hasn't been cut(remember they were only talking concepts when they mentioned much of it(in particular the Shadow of the Colossus-esque levels where a single nightmare is your enemy)) is still up in the air. But this is much of what is known.

Just to elaborate further on the day-night cycle. It also allows for players to sort of go at their own pace due to the gameplay structure. Day is when you can really explore and find out details about the storyline. You aren't rushed at all because the plot is what advances the day-night cycle.

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#224 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts

Now for the official FAQ

THE GAME

Why the name "Alan Wake"?

The game is about a horror writer who battles with insomnia, the stories he writes are based on his nightmares and as the story progresses his insomnia is miraculously cured, but his nightmares also return in which they slowly turn to reality. He ends up fighting to stay awake. A. Wake.. Alan Wake.


What is the story about?

Alan Wake is a bestselling horror writer. Early on in his career, his fiance Alice, was his muse. When he'd first met her, he had started to see strange dreams which he used as material for his first book. The book was a big success. It was a dream come true.

But then Wake's fiancé vanished without a trace. Wake was devastated. After that, he couldn't write anymore. His dreams stopped and he began to suffer from insomnia.

At the beginning of the game, Wake travels to a sleep clinic to seek treatment for his condition. The secluded clinic is located near the small town of Bright Falls, Washington, far away from the stressful urban life-st yle Receiving treatment at the clinic, Wake is able to sleep again. At the clinic, he meets a mysterious woman who is the very image of his missing fiancé, uncannily so. At once, his dreams return, this time as terrible nightmares. Wake begins to write again: a new book based on those nightmares.

But something is horribly, horribly wrong.

Impossibly, the town of Bright Falls starts to change to something awful that bears a close resemblance to Wake's new book. Wake ends up fighting for his life with a gun and a flashlight in his hands, trying to understand what's happening.


Is it Third Person or First Person perspective?

You take control of Alan using a third person perspective. It is yet unknown whether you can switch to first person or any other view during the game.


Will there be Multiplayer?

There will be no multiplayer in this game.

"We have all kinds of ideas related to replayability, but we want to prototype them further before we'll talk about them." - Sam Lake

"We'd much rather give the players a great single-player game, than a mediocre single and multiplayer game." -Petri Järvilehto


How interactive is Bright Falls?

The player can explore buildings and talk with Non Player Characters (NPC's).


How is the game structured?

The story of Alan Wake is made up like a continuing season of a TV series, consisting episodes where the story unfolds as the player completes missions. Some of the episodes end up in a c lassic cliffhanger, while others are calmer, concentrating on character development and Alan's past. Although you can play the game in one-episode portions, that isn't Remedy's ultimate goal. "We want to give the game an irresistible 'one more episode' atmosphere" lead designer Petri Järvilehto says.

The plot of Alan Wake is tied in episodes, but the game world isn't. You can move freely around Bright Falls and the surrounding nature without any urgency. There is much to explore in the huge environment and by talking to the residents you might discover unexpected secrets. "However, Alan Wake isn't a Bioware RPG" Järvilehto clarifies. "The storytelling doesn't advance if the player wonders aimlessly around the woods."


Is the game similar to Grand Theft Auto?

"Alan Wake is more tightly character-driven and story-oriented. Meaning that the player's goals and missions are closely focused around Alan Wake and his story. Also, the setting, the tone and the game being an action thriller all set it clearly apart from the GTA games." - Sam Lake

"Intense cinematic action is something that we love to do, and Alan Wake features tense combat gameplay as well, but all things considered the game has a lot more emphasis on adventure and exploration that what Max Payne did." - Petri Järvilehto

"Driving is an integral part of the game" - Petri Järvilehto


Will there be wildlife in the game?

Yes.


Max Payne has bullet-time, what will Alan Wake have?

"We believe that our approach with Alan Wake will provide the players with a new take with the combat st yle and gameplay. We're not revealing any details yet though." - Sam Lake

"The combat is not purely about gunplay. The use of light plays an important role in the combat, and different light sources provide new gameplay angles there." - Petri Järvilehto

The fight scenes in the game emphasize on quality and uniqueness, not quantity. "Even the risk of having to get involved in a fight has to feel suspenseful" says Petri Järvilehto. "One of our biggest challenges has been to try and turn a fighting encounter that lasts only for a couple of seconds into something that feels thrilling even after a minute."


Alan Wake is a free-roaming game, will there be parts of the map to unlock?

"We'll open more of the game world as the game progresses. The area is so large, that we want the players to become familiar with a smaller subset of the world, before we introduce new locations and new areas." - Sam Lake


Are there alternate methods to completing the missions?

"The basic idea with the free-roaming world is that we give the player goals, and then the player can go about achieving those goals in the way he chooses." - Sam Lake


How does light have an effect on gameplay?

Light will weaken or hurt Wake's enemies, and creatively taking advantage of any and all light sources within Alan Wake's grim world ought to be one of the interesting aspects of play.

It's not that simple however, as Alan is hypersensitive to light since he was born. "The events fall under one big shadow from the beginning: the dilemma of what is real and what is merely a nightmarish figment of Alan Wake's imagination" says Lake.

"A setting sun doesn't bode well for Alan Wake" says writer Lake. "During nightfall the player has to either equip himself properly or look for shelter."


Are there any loading times?

No. Utilising multiple cores, the game will seamlessly generate vast areas of the game world for the graphics card to render.


Where is Bright Falls located?

Bright Falls is located in Washington, USA.


Where did the ideas for Alan Wake come from?

"The TV-series Twin Peaks is one of our sources of inspiration. The location in the game is similar, an idyllic small town in the state of Washington with something threatening waiting under the surface. The TV show also had an excellent nightmarish atmosphere. The works of the author Stephen King is another source of inspiration. He has used the idea of a writer whose life turns to a nightmare in several of his stories." - Sam Lake


How long will it take to complete Alan Wake?

The story arc of Max 2 was modeled after that of a movie. With Alan Wake our template is a season of a TV-series. Alan Wake, season 1, if you will. Remedy is definately aiming for a longer gameplay duration.


Will Alan Wake use the comic-book sty le of narrative like Max Payne?

"The graphic novel screens, we feel, were a Max Payne specific thing. With Alan Wake we want to integrate the story more tightly to the gameplay. There will be cinematic in-game cutscenes, but more importantly there will be scripted events, and we want to have the important NPCs around in the game as much as possible while the player is in control. Voice-over narration was a very useful tool that we used in Max Payne, and it's something we are considering for Alan Wake as well, but done in the ****that's quite different from Max Payne." - Sam Lake

Alan will narrate his thoughts throughout the game as a means of character and story development. "Narration was one of the story telling tools that we used in Max Payne and with Wake, it's such a fantastic tool because he's a writer who's writing out the story itself. It works out really well." - Petri Järvilehto


Will there be any Alan Wake sequels?

Yes. Alan Wake is going to be part of a series. Each game is part of a "season" of a TV-series ****template.

There will also be multiple endings for Alan Wake, setting the story up for future episodes.


How large is the game world?

36 square miles (10 x 10 kilometres).


How many DVD's will the final game be on?

Alan Wake will fit on a single DVD.

TECHNOLOGY

Are Remedy supporting modding of the game?

"We'd definitely want to, but we can't guarantee that at this stage. We're using so much different middleware components, that there may be some legal issues with the release of the tools." - Petri Järvilehto


How far is the draw distance in the game world?

Currently around 2 kilometres (1.2 - 1.3 miles).


What graphical methods will be implemented in the game?

Complete modeling of atmospheric scattering, fully volumetric shadows that are projected through the entire world, full weather modeling, day/night time cycles, ambient occlusion, normal mapping, high dynamic rendering, bloom, depth of field and loads of different pixel-shader effects.


What engine is Alan Wake using?

It's an in-house engine developed by Remedy, known as the Alan Wake Engine and incorporates the Havok physics component. The game is being designed with five threads: rendering, audio, streaming, physics and terrain tessellation. One core processor can be dedicated to physical calculations.


Does the game support DirectX 10?(NEW)

Remedy have not announced anything on this subject.

Alan Wake FAQ

Notice the "NEW" on that last thing. That is a retraction of their previous comments saying the game wouldn't be DX10(the FAQ used to say that the game would NOT do DX10. As you can see they changed that.

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#225 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
We... the first thing you got wrong was assuming that it was a Survival Horror game. It is not. It is a Psychological Action Thriller. Not so much a horror game but rather a thrillerhorrowhip
Survival horror, psychological thriller. Whichever way you want to say it they are two of the same pod. Both genres rely heavily on creating an atmosphere completely different from anything we see in any other genre. There is a hueg need for creating a living, breathing world that is believable and brings the player into it. When you have an open world, you run the risk of creating lifeless environments without much umph to them. That is one of the major trappings with these types of games. If you're unable to consistently keep the player in a state of mystery and panic then you lose practically any chance of conveying the story accurately to them. That is why, if this game IS open envirionment, it will have a hard time keeping wilfull suspension of disbelief. It is merely a fact of the game.
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#226 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts

[QUOTE="horrowhip"] We... the first thing you got wrong was assuming that it was a Survival Horror game. It is not. It is a Psychological Action Thriller. Not so much a horror game but rather a thrillerVandalvideo
Survival horror, psychological thriller. Whichever way you want to say it they are two of the same pod. Both genres rely heavily on creating an atmosphere completely different from anything we see in any other genre. There is a hueg need for creating a living, breathing world that is believable and brings the player into it. When you have an open world, you run the risk of creating lifeless environments without much umph to them. That is one of the major trappings with these types of games. If you're unable to consistently keep the player in a state of mystery and panic then you lose practically any chance of convering the story accurately to them. That is why, if this game IS open envirionment, it will have a hard time keeping wilfull suspension of disbelief. It is merely a fact of the game.

you are wrong but it isn't worth arguing with you because you clearly don't understand the basic concepts of the game... The fact that you keep trying to say it will fail despite the fact that you know absolutely nothing about it is extremely telling of how willing you will be to change your mind. So I won't even try.

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#227 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
you are wrong but it isn't worth arguing with you because you clearly don't understand the basic concepts of the game... The fact that you keep trying to say it will fail despite the fact that you know absolutely nothing about it is extremely telling of how willing you will be to change your mind. So I won't even try.horrowhip
I read all the information you provided, and I still fail to see how exactly that changes anything. The facts of the matter are simple. These types of games rely heavily on creating a living, breathing world. In order to do that, you need what is known as willful suspension of disbelief. In order to get that, developerso f these types of games have to resort to drastic measures that you won't find in a Crysis or a Grand Theft Auto. They rely heavily on these dramatic, scripted events that engross the player in the universe. When you start running around all willy nilly like and rely too heavily on AI generated scenarios, you lose a lot of the thrilling elements of these types of games. You also remove a degree of the third party narrator and the general lack of a cohesive under story presented through material in the game. I'm not saying the game will fail at all. I'm awaiting the game just like anyone else. I'm just being realistic and skeptical. If they decide to have an open world, there will be problems. Its just a problem with these types of games. Nothing against Alan Wake.
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#228 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts

[QUOTE="horrowhip"]you are wrong but it isn't worth arguing with you because you clearly don't understand the basic concepts of the game... The fact that you keep trying to say it will fail despite the fact that you know absolutely nothing about it is extremely telling of how willing you will be to change your mind. So I won't even try.Vandalvideo
I read all the information you provided, and I still fail to see how exactly that changes anything. The facts of the matter are simple. These types of games rely heavily on creating a living, breathing world. In order to do that, you need what is known as willful suspension of disbelief. In order to get that, developerso f these types of games have to resort to drastic measures that you won't find in a Crysis or a Grand Theft Auto. They rely heavily on these dramatic, scripted events that engross the player in the universe. When you start running around all willy nilly like and rely too heavily on AI generated scenarios, you lose a lot of the thrilling elements of these types of games. You also remove a degree of the third party narrator and the general lack of a cohesive under story presented through material in the game. I'm not saying the game will fail at all. I'm awaiting the game just like anyone else. I'm just being realistic and skeptical. If they decide to have an open world, there will be problems. Its just a problem with these types of games. Nothing against Alan Wake.

Well you didn't read because if you did you would known that

1 - The game makes heavy use of scripted sequences despite its open world nature. The open world merely compliments the scripted sequences. You will see cutscenes and heavily scripted action sequences. But at the same time you will see more open world elements where you take advantage of the open world to escape and kill the enemies(they start chasing you, you run to one of your traps and set it off to kill the nightmare). It is emergent drama sequences like the one I just laid out that set this game apart from every other game.

2 - The game uses Alan Wake as a narrator throughout. He presents his thoughts, questions his own sanity, and questions reality. His actions and words, along with the actions and words of the people around you will create a constant doubt about the reality of what you are experiencing. Is everything you do for one episode merely a result of his insomnia? Or is this all really happening. That is the narrative tension that is presented.

There is absolutely no reason that a Psychological Thriller wouldn't work in an open world. And the only reason you think that is because you are imposing pre-concieved notions about what an Open World game is and what a Horror game is onto this game, when honestly neither directly fit the game. Think about it a bit like the context of GTA4. That game is heavily scripted and narrative driven despite its open world. You have clear objectives and the game naturally drives you towards those objectives. Those are the best parts of the game and narratively they work well. Same can apply to Alan Wake if you weren't so dead set on hating the idea of an Open World Psychological Thriller....

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#229 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
Well you didn't read because if you did you would known that 1 - The game makes heavy use of scripted sequences despite its open world nature. The open world merely compliments the scripted sequences. You will see cutscenes and heavily scripted action sequences. But at the same time you will see more open world elements where you take advantage of the open world to escape and kill the enemies(they start chasing you, you run to one of your traps and set it off to kill the nightmare). It is emergent drama sequences like the one I just laid out that set this game apart from every other game. 2 - The game uses Alan Wake as a narrator throughout. He presents his thoughts, questions his own sanity, and questions reality. His actions and words, along with the actions and words of the people around you will create a constant doubt about the reality of what you are experiencing. Is everything you do for one episode merely a result of his insomnia? Or is this all really happening. That is the narrative tension that is presented.There is absolutely no reason that a Psychological Thriller wouldn't work in an open world. And the only reason you think that is because you are imposing pre-concieved notions about what an Open World game is and what a Horror game is onto this game, when honestly neither directly fit the game. Think about it a bit like the context of GTA4. That game is heavily scripted and narrative driven despite its open world. You have clear objectives and the game naturally drives you towards those objectives. Those are the best parts of the game and narratively they work well. Same can apply to Alan Wake if you weren't so dead set on hating the idea of an Open World Psychological Thriller....horrowhip
I more than read the information that you posted. That still doesn't alleviate the problem that I'm presenting. Even if there are intermitten cutscenes, the reliance on this ambient AI to create scenarios that are supposed to thrill and excite the player will leave a lot left to be desired. Building a thriller around a concept like this will inherently lead to problems in the long run. Like I said, it will lack willfull suspension of disbelief if there aren't scripted events every ten minutes or so that brings the player back into the world. Having free roam which relies too much on generated AI won't be able to create that same level of immersion that the scripted events do for other games of their kind. Not to mention you illustrated a general lack of understanding of what i mean't by the third narrator and in game story elements. I'm referring to a common story mechanic used in thrillers of 'seeding' the game world with information that elaborates the real happenins of the world through information, but brief interactions. When you have an open world like this, the seeding would become far too sparse and you run the risk of the player not picking up this information in a succint order. Completely leaving out the third narrator also deminishes the feel of wilfull suspension of disbelief, as it is widely the most accepted form of creating a living, breathing world. Whether or not it is a horror game or a thriller game, these types of conventions apply to both. They both rely heavily on a living, breathing world created through constant use of scripted events. Relying heavily on AI simply will not work.
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#230 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts

I more than read the information that you posted. That still doesn't alleviate the problem that I'm presenting. Even if there are intermitten cutscenes, the reliance on this ambient AI to create scenarios that are supposed to thrill and excite the player will leave a lot left to be desired. Building a thriller around a concept like this will inherently lead to problems in the long run. Like I said, it will lack willfull suspension of disbelief if there aren't scripted events every ten minutes or so that brings the player back into the world. Having free roam which relies too much on generated AI won't be able to create that same level of immersion that the scripted events do for other games of their kind. Not to mention you illustrated a general lack of understanding of what i mean't by the third narrator and in game story elements. I'm referring to a common story mechanic used in thrillers of 'seeding' the game world with information that elaborates the real happenins of the world through information, but brief interactions. When you have an open world like this, the seeding would become far too sparse and you run the risk of the player not picking up this information in a succint order. Completely leaving out the third narrator also deminishes the feel of wilfull suspension of disbelief, as it is widely the most accepted form of creating a living, breathing world. Whether or not it is a horror game or a thriller game, these types of conventions apply to both. They both rely heavily on a living, breathing world created through constant use of scripted events. Relying heavily on AI simply will not work.Vandalvideo

I will just wait to say I told you so.

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#231 Vandalvideo
Member since 2003 • 39655 Posts
I will just wait to say I told you so.horrowhip
Good luck. I'm 4-0 on being psychors.
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#232 horrowhip
Member since 2005 • 5002 Posts

[QUOTE="horrowhip"]I will just wait to say I told you so.Vandalvideo
Good luck. I'm 4-0 on being psychors.

10-1 on my predictions.

And I feel really good about this one. Because I am not basing my beliefs off preconcieved notions of what the game has to be...

Your own bias against it from the start has blinded you. And it will be absolutely sweet necroing this thread just to own you.

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#233 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]As for the rest, only time will tell what this game finaly unveils. Vandalvideo
Time is fine and dandy, but they simply cannot get past the trappings of the genre. It won't be open world. If it is, it will be a failure of a story.

That's like saying innovation are impossible... I'm more of the wait and see type of guy.

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#234 Bebi_vegeta
Member since 2003 • 13558 Posts
[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

Alan wake is a open world... maybe you should look at the tech demo...

ZIMdoom

YOu clearly failed to understand my point. If you want to brag about graphics...maybe show an actual clip of gameplay instead of potentially doctored tech demos or rendered concept shots. Gameplay shots are those with an actual character and THINGS HAPPENING in them.

Because if Tech Demos were all we needed to look at to brag about graphics, we may as well go back to posting pics from the original tech demos for Killzone 2.

The tech demo is in-game... Maybe you should informe yourself better. The only hype this game has is about graphics and what elements it may contain... but we barely have any informaiton on gameplay/storie. So what's your point again?