PS3 Development For Dummies: Is Valve Being Lazy Or Are They Biased?

Valve, though small, and though they make great games, are lazy. Not just because of the whole PS3 issue, that is almost understandable but because of how long it takes them to make games. The Half Life episodes are good but short and the graphic engine is slightly dated, yet two years later they haven't even announced a bit of information for the final episode. It takes some companies two years to come out with a AAA game, let alone a trailer. Sorry about the rant, Valve is lazy, but the PS3 is hard to dev for (probably). tman93

[QUOTE="asylumni"]

Wait, are you saying Sony has unlimited resources or they don't budget their investments in titles?

Honestly... :P

Would it be better if he used Insomniac?

AnnoyedDragon

Every single Insomniac PS3 game is Sony published, I believe 2nd party is the term used. They may not be owned by Sony but they are most definitely treated like a 1st party developer.

Anyway you know what I mean, how many developers can afford to pour $20+ million into a game these days and keep it exclusive to the smallest console install base? Their resources are practically unlimited, they are given everything they need to make a game for the PS3. Yet people criticise Valve for not overhauling their engine for one platform, an architecture that will be irrelevant in a few years because Cell development has stopped.

Well, I'd say all the major players could, it'd just be more risk. But this isn't really about Valve making an exclusive from the ground up, it's about porting a title to the PS3 - a much cheaper option. Considering Left 4 Dead was in development for 3 years and Valve not only bought the studio, but tossed $10 million into an ad campaign, I think they could probably swing a PS3 port if they wanted to. But this isn't really something I like to criticize Valve for. It would be nice if they supported the PS3, but it's their decision. I just wish they'd get a grasp on the whole "release a game in episodes so it's less time between releases" idea of theirs. :P

[QUOTE="tman93"]Valve, though small, and though they make great games, are lazy. Not just because of the whole PS3 issue, that is almost understandable but because of how long it takes them to make games. The Half Life episodes are good but short and the graphic engine is slightly dated, yet two years later they haven't even announced a bit of information for the final episode. It takes some companies two years to come out with a AAA game, let alone a trailer. Sorry about the rant, Valve is lazy, but the PS3 is hard to dev for (probably). DarkLink77

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="tman93"]Valve, though small, and though they make great games, are lazy. Not just because of the whole PS3 issue, that is almost understandable but because of how long it takes them to make games. The Half Life episodes are good but short and the graphic engine is slightly dated, yet two years later they haven't even announced a bit of information for the final episode. It takes some companies two years to come out with a AAA game, let alone a trailer. Sorry about the rant, Valve is lazy, but the PS3 is hard to dev for (probably). tman93

Blaming the console works on the Wii so why not the PS3?

[QUOTE="tman93"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] They've been working on a lot of things besides Half-Life, though. And the PS3 is pretty hard to develop for. A lot of really prominent developers have even said so.DarkLink77

seems common knowlege Valve'sGabe Newelljust does not like the PS3 http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/77826-Gabe-Newell-Calls-PlayStation-3-A-Waste-of-Time

even other developers have spoken out

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.153970

SO, they do not want to make games for PS3. As long as there are developers showing up Valve like ID and EPIC who cares, oh, and lets not forget ND and other games coming to PS3 that show that its not a waste of time.

*looks at all of valves money*, naw they are definitely smart not to waste thier time.

ActicEdge

As far as I know, Gabe Newells worked for microsoft and was made a millionaire by them. The excuses they use for now are just to create a distraction to the real problem which is typical in the business world and the media.

You guys shouldnt expect a Valve game anytime soon but flame them all you want because I believe they deserve it but not for refusing to develop for the PS3 but for lying. - http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/07/03/valve-building-a-ps3-development-team/1

VALVE are in Microsofts pocket, how is this not common knowledge? VALVE are more than capable of developing for PS3 and if they are not than they are even more overrated than I already think.BiggGaming

Common knowledge usually has to be correct.:roll:

Many Valve employees are ex-microsoft employees, Gabe Newell is obviously biased, and obviously it is easier to port PC games to 360, while the PS3 would require more individual work. Seeing as how Valve primarily makes games for the PC, it only makes sense that they would port to 360 as it is less work for them. I also belive The Orange Box sold poorly on PS3, which may have had an effect on their choices.

Besides, Steam games don't exactly have strict hardware requirements, if you really want to play a Valve game not on PS3 the PC may actually be a better place to do it. You get modding andfree DLC too along with $10 off.

Gabe doesn't like the PS3 and thinks the platform isn't really convenient for their games and business so he decides to make games for PC/360. What's the problem here again? Not all third party developers have to put their games on your system, right cows? ( MGS4 anyone?)

Valve are not lazy or biased, they're just a relic of an era long passed.Sooner or later they're going to have adapt to new technologies.Rockman999

They have and they do. Why they decided not to invest the time and resources to build up the expertise to develop a fully competitive product on the PS3 I don't know. I could but since I don't work at Valve it wouldnt really matter much.

However, in the mean time they have pioneered things like Digital distribution for computer games, starting and maintaining the most successfull online game store / site (STEAM). This in itself has been instrumental in the development of PC Gaming specifically but all gaming in general. You can be pretty sure that both MS and Sony took a long hard look at steam when they were trying to decide how and what to include in their online services and online stores.

seems common knowlege Valve'sGabe Newelljust does not like the PS3 http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/77826-Gabe-Newell-Calls-PlayStation-3-A-Waste-of-Time

even other developers have spoken out

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.153970

SO, they do not want to make games for PS3. As long as there are developers showing up Valve like ID and EPIC who cares, oh, and lets not forget ND and other games coming to PS3 that show that its not a waste of time.

Valve are not lazy or biased, they're just a relic of an era long passed.Sooner or later they're going to have adapt to new technologies.

Rockman999

Define new technologies. On-the-metal programming is not new.

Perhaps I'll complain to Sony for not producing games for my Sony Vaio gaming laptop...

[QUOTE="NAPK1NS"]If Naughty Dog and Santa Monica can make games that look incredible and run perfectly then Valve should be able to as well. AnnoyedDragon

You used two 1st party companies, developers owned by Sony and given unlimited resources to develop for the PS3, as a counter argument to a 3rd party developer choosing not to work on PS3?

Honestly...

Most 3rd party & PC developers aren't going to give a crap about taking advantage of the full power of the cell. They just want to make money. Why would they want to waste more money & more development time on that when PS3 is still in last place, & most games don't sell well on PS3 compared to 360? Especially when the PS3 is more difficult to work with. It doesn't make any sense.

Gabe Newell is loyal to microsoft, it was never a secret and there is nothing wrong with that, Hideo Kojima refused to have his main game ported a non sony console and nobody complained, let the guys work just for the PC/360.

AgentA-Mi6

^^^^ I'm just surprised theres been 2 pages on a Valve topic and no PS3 fanboy has posted a "Gabes fat" or a pic about it.blue_hazy_basic

[QUOTE="AgentA-Mi6"]

Gabe Newell is loyal to microsoft, it was never a secret and there is nothing wrong with that, Hideo Kojima refused to have his main game ported a non sony console and nobody complained, let the guys work just for the PC/360.

Dante2710

They are biased, if they don't want to develope on the ps3, then why do they keep speaking of the ps3?PearlOfHeaven

Because people ask them.

[QUOTE="PearlOfHeaven"]They are biased, if they don't want to develope on the ps3, then why do they keep speaking of the ps3?Baranga

Because people ask them.

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="PearlOfHeaven"]They are biased, if they don't want to develope on the ps3, then why do they keep speaking of the ps3?PearlOfHeaven

Because people ask them.

Anyone that cared.

Source is an engine with cartrige slot, it just need an fundament to game to work.

My theory is that Valve simply don't want to switch over to OpenGL or have two engine teams. But surly they sould stop there fanboyish talk....

After seeing beasts like Killzone 2, Uncharted 2, Metal Gear Solidandrastes_cow

As far as I know, Gabe Newells worked for microsoft and was made a millionaire by them. The excuses they use for now are just to create a distraction to the real problem which is typical in the business world and the media.

You guys shouldnt expect a Valve game anytime soon but flame them all you want because I believe they deserve it but not for refusing to develop for the PS3 but for lying. - http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/07/03/valve-building-a-ps3-development-team/1

RadecSupreme

well valve is smaller than naughty dog and usually has many things going on at once, MGS 4 and Kz2 both took over 3 years with really big budgets so idk.mayceV

Companies smaller than Valve have invested in the PS3 with amazing results. Valves two biggest problems is that they approach new technology with fear and trepidation instead of excitement and enthusiasm. Their second problem is that they are entrenched in MS's proprietary technologies and are either unwilling or too lazy to dig themselves out.

[QUOTE="mayceV"]well valve is smaller than naughty dog and usually has many things going on at once, MGS 4 and Kz2 both took over 3 years with really big budgets so idk.skektek

Companies smaller than Valve have invested in the PS3 with amazing results

[QUOTE="mayceV"]well valve is smaller than naughty dog and usually has many things going on at once, MGS 4 and Kz2 both took over 3 years with really big budgets so idk.skektek

Companies smaller than Valve have invested in the PS3 with amazing results. Valves two biggest problems is that they approach new technology with fear and trepidation instead of excitement and enthusiasm. Their second problem is that they are entrenched in MS's proprietary technologies and are either unwilling or too lazy to dig themselves out.

Companies smaller than Valve have invested in the PS3 with amazing results. Valves two biggest problems is that they approach new technology with fear and trepidation instead of excitement and enthusiasm. Their second problem is that they are entrenched in MS's proprietary technologies and are either unwilling or too lazy to dig themselves out.

skektek

Why learn a dead technology? People are asking for Valve to overhaul their engine for a architecture that won't matter after PS3, IBM are not developing future models of Cell. Companies invest in Cell because they have to, higher costs encourage cross platform development, Valve has lower costs than other developers because they are using older technology.

You have unreasonable expectations.

Companies smaller than Valve have invested in the PS3 with amazing results. Valves two biggest problems is that they approach new technology with fear and trepidation instead of excitement and enthusiasm. Their second problem is that they are entrenched in MS's proprietary technologies and are either unwilling or too lazy to dig themselves out.

skektek

[QUOTE="skektek"]

[QUOTE="mayceV"]well valve is smaller than naughty dog and usually has many things going on at once, MGS 4 and Kz2 both took over 3 years with really big budgets so idk.kolkov01

Companies smaller than Valve have invested in the PS3 with amazing results

Ninja Theory developed the amazing Heavenly Sword which has sold over a million copies to date. Free Radical was a small independent studio that developed a crappy game and closed their doors, no fault of the PS3. Level 5 developed the infamous half baked Lair but they have went on to develop another PS3 exclusive White Knight Chronicles,

Unless you evidence to the contrary?

Ninja Theory developed the amazing Heavenly Sword which has sold over a million copies to date. Free Radical was a small independent studio that developed a crappy game and closed their doors, no fault of the PS3. Level 5 developed the infamous half baked Lair but they have went on to develop another PS3 exclusive White Knight Chronicles,

Unless you evidence to the contrary?

skektek

More Sony published titles? People keep relying on games Sony directly funded as a counter argument to 3rd party decisions.

Come on, what are the PS3 utilizing games developed by companies in Valve's position? No Sony involvement.

[QUOTE="skektek"]

Companies smaller than Valve have invested in the PS3 with amazing results. Valves two biggest problems is that they approach new technology with fear and trepidation instead of excitement and enthusiasm. Their second problem is that they are entrenched in MS's proprietary technologies and are either unwilling or too lazy to dig themselves out.

AnnoyedDragon

Why learn a dead technology? People are asking for Valve to overhaul their engine for a architecture that won't matter after PS3, IBM are not developing future models of Cell. Companies invest in Cell because they have to, higher costs encourage cross platform development, Valve has lower costs than other developers because they are using older technology.

You have unreasonable expectations.

Wow, you really hate the Cell? Did it kill your kitten?

I am talking about this:

"Technologically, I think every game developer should be terrified of the next generation of processors...So it's not even clear that over the lifespan of these next generation systems that they will be solved problems. The amount of time it takes to get a good multicore engine running, the Xbox 360 might not even be on the market any longer. That should scare the crap out of everybody."

-Gabe Newell

Gabe is scared of new tech, and apparently he thinks that everyone else should be too. While he is cowering in the corner developers like Epic and Naughty Dog are doing amazing things with multi-core engines.

[QUOTE="skektek"]

Ninja Theory developed the amazing Heavenly Sword which has sold over a million copies to date. Free Radical was a small independent studio that developed a crappy game and closed their doors, no fault of the PS3. Level 5 developed the infamous half baked Lair but they have went on to develop another PS3 exclusive White Knight Chronicles,

Unless you evidence to the contrary?

AnnoyedDragon

More Sony published titles? People keep relying on games Sony directly funded as a counter argument to 3rd party decisions.

Come on, what are the PS3 utilizing games developed by companies in Valve's position? No Sony involvement.

You are faulting Sony for helping developers? Wow you really are a die hard fanboy ;)

Ninja Theory developed the amazing Heavenly Sword which has sold over a million copies to date. Free Radical was a small independent studio that developed a crappy game and closed their doors, no fault of the PS3. Level 5 developed the infamous half baked Lair but they have went on to develop another PS3 exclusive White Knight Chronicles,

Unless you evidence to the contrary?

skektek

actually I do

first of all Ninja Theory claimed that they found Heavenly Sword's sales disapointing. It was an old link so all i could find on it was this:

"With the story's second part already scribed, fans of big-haired action epic Heavenly Sword have eagerly been awaiting confirmation of a sequel. Though it hasn't arrived just yet (possibly waylaid by disappointing sales of the original)"

Free radical was a small studio (like the Valve) that was famous for developing great shooters (like Valve), they chose to develop a game for the PS3 and now they are no more

Oh and I made a mistake, Lair was developed by Factor 5, not Level 5

Factor 5 was a small studio (like valve), that became famous for it's action games (like Valve), they chose to develop for the PS3 and now they are no more

indeed I can't blame the PS3 for having a dificult hardware, I can only blame developers for making games on the PS3 knowing too well it would be a risk, if they had been more like Valve then maybe we would still have a Factor 5 and a Free radical

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="skektek"]

Ninja Theory developed the amazing Heavenly Sword which has sold over a million copies to date. Free Radical was a small independent studio that developed a crappy game and closed their doors, no fault of the PS3. Level 5 developed the infamous half baked Lair but they have went on to develop another PS3 exclusive White Knight Chronicles,

Unless you evidence to the contrary?

skektek

More Sony published titles? People keep relying on games Sony directly funded as a counter argument to 3rd party decisions.

Come on, what are the PS3 utilizing games developed by companies in Valve's position? No Sony involvement.

You are faulting Sony for helping developers? Wow you really are a die hard fanboy ;)

[QUOTE="skektek"]

Ninja Theory developed the amazing Heavenly Sword which has sold over a million copies to date. Free Radical was a small independent studio that developed a crappy game and closed their doors, no fault of the PS3. Level 5 developed the infamous half baked Lair but they have went on to develop another PS3 exclusive White Knight Chronicles,

Unless you evidence to the contrary?

kolkov01

actually I do

first of all Ninja Theory claimed that they found Heavenly Sword's sales disapointing. It was an old link so all i could find on it was this:

"With the story's second part already scribed, fans of big-haired action epic Heavenly Sword have eagerly been awaiting confirmation of a sequel. Though it hasn't arrived just yet (possibly waylaid by disappointing sales of the original)"

Free radical was a small studio (like the Valve) that was famous for developing great shooters (like Valve), they chose to develop a game for the PS3 and now they are no more

Oh and I made a mistake, Lair was developed by Factor 5, not Level 5

Factor 5 was a small studio (like valve), that became famous for it's action games (like Valve), they chose to develop for the PS3 and now they are no more

indeed I can't blame the PS3 for having a dificult hardware, I can only blame developers for making on the PS3 knowing too well it would be a risk, if they had been more like Valve then maybe we would still have a Factor 5 and a Free radical

Are you sure about those numbers? Last time I checked, Valve was at 250, Naughty Dog was at 100, Polyphony Digital was around 115, Insomniac was around 180, Bioware was around 500, Crytek was at 550 and Blizzard was at 4600 (though this includes all the server and maintenance personell as well as worldwide localization and product support).

asylumni

Also..Crytek is 550, but that's spread around 5 full fledged studios in 5 different countries, altough they did grow a lot recently and will continue to , due to nature of console development