PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

[QUOTE="Robbazking"] So what have he done wrong?Robbazking

[QUOTE="Robbazking"][QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]He may have violated US Code Title 17 SS 1201.

shinrabanshou

Not even close. :lol:

[QUOTE="Robbazking"][QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]He may have violated US Code Title 17 SS 1201.

shinrabanshou

Put there is no infringement it's his own hardware.Robbazking

As it stands a judge will decide whether he has violated US law.

Im behind him Hardware is yours to do with one you buy it...software is a different manner...but its not like hes messing with their software.

Im behind him Hardware is yours to do with one you buy it...software is a different manner...but its not like hes messing with their software.

edinsftw

Im behind him Hardware is yours to do with one you buy it...software is a different manner...but its not like hes messing with their software.

edinsftw

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

do you think that applies to this case?

Freedom of speech/expression laws tend to be rather robust in developed countries. The anarchists cookbook is perfectly legal... even though its a big laundry list on how to do things that are illegal.

This is because we recognize the value of information and not stifling it... even if it may lead to something so evil such as running homebrew on a ps3! :o

shinrabanshou

Developed countries recognise the value of creative works, thus intellectual property laws.

what geohot released cannot be used to steal intellectual property though. You still have to buy a ps3 and all the hardware/software that entails to use his hack.

Guilt cannot permeate the entire food chain... at some point we need to pinpoint an individual(s) responsible. And i refuse to believe the caveman that discovered fire was responsible for the oklahoma city bombing.

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

Im behind him Hardware is yours to do with one you buy it...software is a different manner...but its not like hes messing with their software.

shinrabanshou

Because Sony is butthurt someone managed to hack the PS3 and wants full power over what anyone can or cannot do with their products.

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

do you think that applies to this case?

Freedom of speech/expression laws tend to be rather robust in developed countries. The anarchists cookbook is perfectly legal... even though its a big laundry list on how to do things that are illegal.

This is because we recognize the value of information and not stifling it... even if it may lead to something so evil such as running homebrew on a ps3! :o

markinthedark

Developed countries recognise the value of creative works, thus intellectual property laws.

what geohot released cannot be used to steal intellectual property though. You still have to buy a ps3 and all the hardware/software that entails to use his hack.

Guilt cannot permeate the entire food chain... at some point we need to pinpoint an individual(s) responsible. And i refuse to believe the caveman that discovered fire was responsible for the oklahoma city bombing.

Don't forget the person who invented gun powder he should be dug up from his grave and sued for all the murders commited with guns

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

Im behind him Hardware is yours to do with one you buy it...software is a different manner...but its not like hes messing with their software.

USS_Data

Because Sony is butthurt someone managed to hack the PS3 and wants full power over what anyone can or cannot do with their products.

[QUOTE="USS_Data"]

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]Why exactly do you think legal action is being taken?

Ravensmash

Because Sony is butthurt someone managed to hack the PS3 and wants full power over what anyone can or cannot do with their products.

Yes and? It's the same thing and I don't feel sorry for Sony one bit. They brought it upon themselves.

What he's doing and others right now is illegal. If he wins the United States will change some laws to make it legal.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"][QUOTE="USS_Data"]

Because Sony is butthurt someone managed to hack the PS3 and wants full power over what anyone can or cannot do with their products.

USS_Data

Yes and? It's the same thing and I don't feel sorry for Sony one bit. They brought it upon themselves.

[QUOTE="USS_Data"]

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"] Let's not exaggerate here. He opened the system up to unauthorised modifications which can lead to piracy. Sony can't even ban people/fix it due to them having it. Ravensmash

Yes and? It's the same thing and I don't feel sorry for Sony one bit. They brought it upon themselves.

And nothing effects you as a gamer, i haven't noticed anything i probably never will.

what geohot released cannot be used to steal intellectual property though. You still have to buy a ps3 and all the hardware/software that entails to use his hack.

Guilt cannot permeate the entire food chain... at some point we need to pinpoint an individual(s) responsible. And i refuse to believe the caveman that discovered fire was responsible for the oklahoma city bombing.

markinthedark

The tools George Hotz released were capable of being used to pirate games - they were used to run the copy of Castlevania that was reported.

The System Software itself constitutes intellectual property anyway. Ergo in multiple ways what George Hotz distributed may constitute devices that circumvent technological prevention measures that protect intellectual property.

Yes and? It's the same thing and I don't feel sorry for Sony one bit. They brought it upon themselves.

USS_Data

I'll be sure to send a bouquet of flowers to George Hotz to thank him when the PS4 is incredibly locked down, with region locks, first-party hard drives only, first-party keyboards and mice only, and so on, all so that Sony won't bring anything upon themselves again.

I believe GeoHotz is one of the best things to happen to the fight against piracy. Because of him, do you really think Sony will release another system that can be manipulated so easily? Sony is actually making me feel guilty for supporting them right now. Demon's Souls and LBP2 tell me it will be all right though and that I should keep my PS3.

I believe GeoHotz is one of the best things to happen to the fight against piracy. Because of him, do you really think Sony will release another system that can be manipulated so easily? Sony is actually making me feel guilty for supporting them right now. Demon's Souls and LBP2 tell me it will be all right though and that I should keep my PS3.

Frostbite24

Fight against piracy? Yeah, in bizarro land. All he did was open the flood gates to piracy.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"][QUOTE="USS_Data"]

Because Sony is butthurt someone managed to hack the PS3 and wants full power over what anyone can or cannot do with their products.

USS_Data

Yes and? It's the same thing and I don't feel sorry for Sony one bit. They brought it upon themselves.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

what geohot released cannot be used to steal intellectual property though. You still have to buy a ps3 and all the hardware/software that entails to use his hack.

Guilt cannot permeate the entire food chain... at some point we need to pinpoint an individual(s) responsible. And i refuse to believe the caveman that discovered fire was responsible for the oklahoma city bombing.

shinrabanshou

The tools George Hotz released were capable of being used to pirate games - they were used to run the copy of Castlevania that was reported.

The System Software itself constitutes intellectual property anyway. Ergo in multiple ways what George Hotz distributed may constitute devices that circumvent technological prevention measures that protect intellectual property.

The problem is, as with all the people that hate this dude, you are making giant leaps in causation. How far back do we trace trangressions? how many steps are you willing to take?

And yes the system software is copyrighted intellectual property.... but just as you have to right to modify any program you own on your PC, you have the right to modify any program you own on your PS3... or at least, thats how it should be.

[QUOTE="USS_Data"]

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"] Let's not exaggerate here. He opened the system up to unauthorised modifications which can lead to piracy. Sony can't even ban people/fix it due to them having it. Timstuff

Yes and? It's the same thing and I don't feel sorry for Sony one bit. They brought it upon themselves.

great point... see the difference is... you own the house. But if i bought the house off you, im allowed to enter it, am i not?

So the question is, if you sold me the house... who owns the house, the buyer, or the seller?

geohot didnt hack a computer at the sony headquarters, he hacked a computer he bought from sony.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="USS_Data"]

Yes and? It's the same thing and I don't feel sorry for Sony one bit. They brought it upon themselves.

markinthedark

great point... see the difference is... you own the house. But if i bought the house off you, im allowed to enter it, am i not?

So the question is, if you sold me the house... who owns the house, the buyer, or the seller?

But all you did was bought the licensing to use it, and were bound with rules when you clicked, or rather signed, the terms and conditions.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]So if you leave your door unlocked it's OK for me to rob your house. Thanks for the protip, I'll remember that next time I'm in the neighborhood. :)DroidPhysX

great point... see the difference is... you own the house. But if i bought the house off you, im allowed to enter it, am i not?

So the question is, if you sold me the house... who owns the house, the buyer, or the seller?

But all you did was bought the licensing to use it, and were bound with rules when you clicked, or rather signed, the terms and conditions.

I believe GeoHotz is one of the best things to happen to the fight against piracy. Because of him, do you really think Sony will release another system that can be manipulated so easily? Sony is actually making me feel guilty for supporting them right now. Demon's Souls and LBP2 tell me it will be all right though and that I should keep my PS3.

Frostbite24

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

what geohot released cannot be used to steal intellectual property though. You still have to buy a ps3 and all the hardware/software that entails to use his hack.

Guilt cannot permeate the entire food chain... at some point we need to pinpoint an individual(s) responsible. And i refuse to believe the caveman that discovered fire was responsible for the oklahoma city bombing.

markinthedark

The tools George Hotz released were capable of being used to pirate games - they were used to run the copy of Castlevania that was reported.

The System Software itself constitutes intellectual property anyway. Ergo in multiple ways what George Hotz distributed may constitute devices that circumvent technological prevention measures that protect intellectual property.

The problem is, as with all the people that hate this dude, you are making giant leaps in causation. How far back do we trace trangressions? how many steps are you willing to take?

And yes the system software is copyrighted intellectual property.... but just as you have to right to modify any program you own on your PC, you have the right to modify any program you own on your PS3... or at least, thats how it should be.

[QUOTE="Timstuff"][QUOTE="USS_Data"]

Yes and? It's the same thing and I don't feel sorry for Sony one bit. They brought it upon themselves.

markinthedark

great point... see the difference is... you own the house. But if i bought the house off you, im allowed to enter it, am i not?

So the question is, if you sold me the house... who owns the house, the buyer, or the seller?

geohot didnt hack a computer at the sony headquarters, he hacked a computer he bought from sony.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="shinrabanshou"]Liberties vs claim rights.

Developed countries recognise the value of creative works, thus intellectual property laws.

USS_Data

what geohot released cannot be used to steal intellectual property though. You still have to buy a ps3 and all the hardware/software that entails to use his hack.

Guilt cannot permeate the entire food chain... at some point we need to pinpoint an individual(s) responsible. And i refuse to believe the caveman that discovered fire was responsible for the oklahoma city bombing.

Don't forget the person who invented gun powder he should be dug up from his grave and sued for all the murders commited with guns

I love how people in favour of geohot are recycling the same comments over and over:

-He didnt do wrong! he just hacked his own hardware

-Sony is butthurt. They want to control us so the hardware isnt ours!

-Jailbroken phones are okay! Jailbroken ps3 must be okay aswell!

While the reality is.

-Geohot posted private security critical information for sony and platform investors, namely, game developers on the WWW. He did it by breaking into sony software, and he has done unrepairable damage to the platform.

-Sony gave us the most open console to date till Geohot started messing with otherOS.

Why is everyone so self centered and think they are right. Both camps have good points just because the other doesn't agree dont mean they are wrong. This thread is just going to go on as no one will win this. Why cant we just let the court case decide who wins?

The problem is, as with all the people that hate this dude, you are making giant leaps in causation. How far back do we trace trangressions? how many steps are you willing to take?

And yes the system software is copyrighted intellectual property.... but just as you have to right to modify any program you own on your PC, you have the right to modify any program you own on your PS3... or at least, thats how it should be.

markinthedark

The specific tools he released are usable for piracy. I am not referring to the keys alone. I am tracing backwards a single step to George Hotz contributing to piracy.

You do not own the intellectual property of any software. You do not have free reign to modify and distribute others' intellectual property. Fair use may apply, but only if certain requirements are met.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

The problem is, as with all the people that hate this dude, you are making giant leaps in causation. How far back do we trace trangressions? how many steps are you willing to take?

And yes the system software is copyrighted intellectual property.... but just as you have to right to modify any program you own on your PC, you have the right to modify any program you own on your PS3... or at least, thats how it should be.

shinrabanshou

The specific tools he released are usable for piracy. I am not referring to the keys alone.

You do not own the intellectual property of any software. You do not have free reign to modify and distribute others' intellectual property. Fair use may apply, but only if certain requirements are met.

Why is everyone so self centered and think they are right. Both camps have good points just because the other doesn't agree dont mean they are wrong. This thread is just going to go on as no one will win this. Why cant we just let the court case decide who wins?

viper-kid

Because the courts dont always get it right. (See OJ simpson trial)

Not to mention Sony is obviously going to win. Anyone who thinks otherwise must be kidding themselves. The guy violated DMCA. But i know I will get posts like this:

"But teh iphone jailbreaking isnt a violaton, so that means ps3 jailbreaking isnt a violation!11!!!!!:cry::cry:"

Yeah, my response is that the DMCA exception was only made to mobile devices, not consoles.

And what requirements are those...viper-kid

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

I love how people in favour of geohot are recycling the same comments over and over:

-He didnt do wrong! he just hacked his own hardware

-Sony is butthurt. They want to control us so the hardware isnt ours!

-Jailbroken phones are okay! Jailbroken ps3 must be okay aswell!

While the reality is.

-Geohot posted private security critical information for sony and platform investors, namely, game developers on the WWW. He did it by breaking into sony software, and he has done unrepairable damage to the platform.

-Sony gave us the most open console to date till Geohot started messing with otherOS.

blitzcloud

You do realize no where in your "reality" did you ever refute any of the recycled comments.

[QUOTE="blitzcloud"]

I love how people in favour of geohot are recycling the same comments over and over:

-He didnt do wrong! he just hacked his own hardware

-Sony is butthurt. They want to control us so the hardware isnt ours!

-Jailbroken phones are okay! Jailbroken ps3 must be okay aswell!

While the reality is.

-Geohot posted private security critical information for sony and platform investors, namely, game developers on the WWW. He did it by breaking into sony software, and he has done unrepairable damage to the platform.

-Sony gave us the most open console to date till Geohot started messing with otherOS.

Superbored

You do realize no where in your "reality" did you ever refute any of the recycled comments.

I love how people in favour of geohot are recycling the same comments over and over:

-He didnt do wrong! he just hacked his own hardware

-Sony is butthurt. They want to control us so the hardware isnt ours!

-Jailbroken phones are okay! Jailbroken ps3 must be okay aswell!

While the reality is.

-Geohot posted private security critical information for sony and platform investors, namely, game developers on the WWW. He did it by breaking into sony software, and he has done unrepairable damage to the platform.

-Sony gave us the most open console to date till Geohot started messing with otherOS.

blitzcloud

Yeah and all of the pro Sony arguments are original and sound:roll:

So if I buy a house from you and find an old bank paper that you accidentally left behind, it's OK for me to use that to commit identity fraud and take money out of your bank account. If your bank numbers were in my house that makes them my property, and I have the right to use them for whatever I want. If you take a hit for it it's your own damn fault, because you should have been more careful, right? That's what liberty is all about, isn't it?Timstuff

I love how people in favour of geohot are recycling the same comments over and over:

-He didnt do wrong! he just hacked his own hardware

-Sony is butthurt. They want to control us so the hardware isnt ours!

-Jailbroken phones are okay! Jailbroken ps3 must be okay aswell!

While the reality is.

-Geohot posted private security critical information for sony and platform investors, namely, game developers on the WWW. He did it by breaking into sony software, and he has done unrepairable damage to the platform.

-Sony gave us the most open console to date till Geohot started messing with otherOS.

Gorcman

I don't know the specifics of what Geohotz did, but if he did the same thing that fail0verflow did, then it is actually unclear the nature of the "breaking in" that was done... fail0verflow's description of their methods for getting the key actually involve no breaching or circumvention of security software. They run an outside method that determines the master key by comparing two separate encrypted codes. Sony's error in the development of the security was that they do not have a secure master key and one can figure it out by simply comparing two encrypted code segments. Technically speaking, doing that does not actually involve breaking into the security code or even circumventing the security measures... However, it makes the security measures obsolete because one can simply provide the system with the correct key based on what the encrypted code looks like.... Basically, Sony created an encryption method that was completely vulnerable to exploitation. It was hardly a "hack" in the traditional sense of the word because one does not even really need to bypass the security features, you can just spoof them into believing that you have valid code... You still go through the security layers, they just don't perform their job correctly.

[QUOTE="blitzcloud"]

I love how people in favour of geohot are recycling the same comments over and over:

-He didnt do wrong! he just hacked his own hardware

-Sony is butthurt. They want to control us so the hardware isnt ours!

-Jailbroken phones are okay! Jailbroken ps3 must be okay aswell!

While the reality is.

-Geohot posted private security critical information for sony and platform investors, namely, game developers on the WWW. He did it by breaking into sony software, and he has done unrepairable damage to the platform.

-Sony gave us the most open console to date till Geohot started messing with otherOS.

KevinnButlerNPK

Yeah and all of the pro Sony arguments are original and sound:roll:

And correct as well.

[QUOTE="KevinnButlerNPK"]

[QUOTE="blitzcloud"]

I love how people in favour of geohot are recycling the same comments over and over:

-He didnt do wrong! he just hacked his own hardware

-Sony is butthurt. They want to control us so the hardware isnt ours!

-Jailbroken phones are okay! Jailbroken ps3 must be okay aswell!

While the reality is.

-Geohot posted private security critical information for sony and platform investors, namely, game developers on the WWW. He did it by breaking into sony software, and he has done unrepairable damage to the platform.

-Sony gave us the most open console to date till Geohot started messing with otherOS.

DroidPhysX

Yeah and all of the pro Sony arguments are original and sound:roll:

And correct as well.

[QUOTE="istuffedsunny"]

[QUOTE="tommyas"] Ok, educate me. What you can do on CFW on ps3 that is NOT illegal? Trophy unlockers, pirating, emulators, cheating in games... thats about all Ive seen on CFW so far.

Get a cheap PC. Homebrew is easier to make and runs better there. Why going through all this trouble on ps3? Its for stealing games and cheating. Maybe there are a few people who really like to play with ps3 but thats not the main focus.

Jonzey123