PS4 neo slideshow leaked

Scorpio > Neo confirmed. Inb4 cows suddenly start saying specs don't matter anymore. :P

Hopefully at least it will be 1080p60. Seen some embarrassingly choppy games on PS4 and Xbone.

@tormentos: The difference between NEO and Scorpio is like R9-290(4.6~4.8 TFLOPS throttled mode) and R9-390X OC (~6 TFLOPS at 1080 Mhz without throttling mode).

Fury X shows it's true power in titles like Doom Vulkan (with Async) ie. it's nearly rivals GTX 1080.

R9-290 is slower than R9-390.

Doom Vulkan shows TFLOPS order

1070 = 6.4 TFLOPS

980 Ti = 5.6 TFLOPS

390 Pro = 5.12 TFLOPS

RX-480 seems to be the odd ball i.e. 5.83 TFLOPS with R9-290X's effective memory bandwidth.

ID software has optimized their Doom Vulkan better than Hitman DX12.

The frame rate difference between Fury X and R9-390 is 1.42X which is about the same gap as TFLOP difference.

I expect the Scorpio to be $100 more. I feel like the NEO will be $400 and the Scorpio will be $500. I think that would be a reasonable price given the intended specs of both.

Scorpio's GPU points to next year's RX-480 replacement i.e. RX-580. The difference is like R9-290X vs R9-390X.

This doesn't matter. They'll just lie. We have Cows saying PS3 readily beat PC in graphics, that Infamous was graphics king, and that BF1 looks worse than Horizon. (Cough @AM-Gamer)

They are brand loyal, to an unhealthy degree. They will let an entire forum laugh at them. They will just say whatever that comes to mind, regardless of the truth. It doesn't matter to them. It's best to point and laugh.

Lol yeah right... maybe in 2017 you might start getting some of these exclusives that we hear about for years and get delayed 10 times.

And you better hope they won't be NEO exclusives.

Yeah, I'm sure most of those Neo games will also be on PS4, so I'm not sure what Shewgenja is smoking.

Yeah who knows... fanboyism must do weird things to your brain.

Comparing a 290x to a Fury X is almost like comparing a 970 to a 980ti. Sure the gap in Tflops is really big for the gap in performance but to say that the difference between a 290x and a Fury X is minimal is straight misinformation.

Impressive stats for the Neo, can't wait!

Busted lol...

The difference between Neo and Scorpio is a PlayStation 4 inserted on top of Neo's specs in terms of the capabilities of Scorpio, hope that helps putting things into proper perspective for you.

Neo specs pretty much set. The gap between the Scorpio while large, will not mean the system will not have games that look great, and play great. Neo will be a day one purchase for me.

Don't really care. I'm not supporting mid Gen upgrades. I still don't understand how some of you can.

If you were a PC gamer you would be on board for this, or at least understand the importance. Hopefully this will speed up technological and engine development instead of being ham-stringed for 7-8 years at a time.

xbox show more Retail Exclusives at E3 2016 coming this years then ps4 last 3 years so I dont see that hapening

@dynamitecop: I am a PC gamer. I fully understand that technology changes at a rapid rate. I get it. What I DON'T want to see happen , is the cell phone model of game consoles.

Maybe because it was overhyped, but NEO is looking to be underpowered. I'm left wondering that aside from PSVR what is the point of this console? That CPU will make 1080p60 difficult, despite the 2.3x GPU multiplier suggesting almost just that (60FPS), but it is nowhere near enough for 4k in any demanding titles. I guess Sony IPs will just be cranking up detail settings which versus framerate or resolution is the most difficult to implement when considering cross play between NEO and the original console. A Skorpio-like console should have been out this year. I wasn't planning to buy it anyway, but all in all a disappointment.

They're not going to release these things every year, it wouldn't work in this industry, at the earliest a 3-4 year cycle. The thing is though you don't have to upgrade during the mid-cycles, you can just get one every 6-7 years if you so choose just as things have always been.

@dynamitecop: yea I think that's just what I'm going to do with my consoles. Just wait for the Xbox 2 or Ps5

I like this.

At least there is some differentiation between consoles, and Sony needs to do more to address the power difference. Hopefully through more exclusives.

MS is in the right direction with the Scorpio, they have the advantage. They have to, I believe this is their last kick in the tire, if they fail this, I don't know how they will be able to come back.

Apply CPU core count difference 1.65X on Athlon 5350 (quad core Jaguar at 2.05 Ghz)'s 174 score which yields 287 score.

Apply clock speed difference 1.02X on 287 score which yields 294 score.

Polaris has triangle culling hardware which reduces the need for the CPU version or CPU preparing geometry shader version.

I don't think NEO was designed for Oculus VR.

Doom 2016 PS4 has reached 1920x1080 ~60fps via use of GCN intrinsic functions.

That prompted some other developers to chime in, such as id Software’s Lead Renderer Programmer Tiago Sousa, who said that Async Compute is awesome and his team gained 3 to 5 ms in rendering time with DOOM. This, alongside AMD intrinsic functions, was key to hitting the performance target (60FPS) in DOOM on PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. Sousa also remarked that profiling tools on consoles helped a lot as well, while PC can improve in that regard.

From http://wccftech.com/async-compute-praised-by-several-devs-was-key-to-hitting-performance-target-in-doom-on-consoles/#ixzz4ERIrolX8

GCN intrinsic functions = metal programming.

The programmer's ability to code at the metal level would be another issue.

We already know that the Scorpio is stronger than the Neo.

http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/neo_leak_2-635x724.jpg

Hope so. 500gb is a joke these days. 2TB is a must or bust.

What do you think of this @ronvalencia?

http://wccftech.com/amd-rx-490-mystery-4k-gaming-gpu-listed-sapphire/

HBMv2, 384 bit, 512 bit, 2X 256bit covers RX-490

@ronvalencia: Below and i3 and paired with a GTX 390(ish) GPU. Awful.

You're relying on developer implementation of these features. That and keenly overlooking DOOMs GPU bound nature, ignoring games with high AI or multiplayer counts with physics as well.

This system is bottlenecked and weak.

Edit: I said PSVR didn't I? Either way, that CPU is going to struggle to achieve the 90 or so FPS. You're right.

Old but **** this thing is weak in light of everything out there. That move to zen better be true and it better be dirt cheap.

pff They are talking about checkerboard rendering. Scorpio is offering 60hz uncompressed pixels, highest quality pixels anyone has ever seen lol.

@ronvalencia said:

@GameboyTroy said:

What do you think of this @ronvalencia?

http://wccftech.com/amd-rx-490-mystery-4k-gaming-gpu-listed-sapphire/

HBMv2, 384 bit, 512 bit, 2X 256bit covers RX-490

I may not understand everything you say but I get some of the things that you say.

NEO is closer to R9-290 than R9-390. NEO's raw memory bandwidth is similar to RX-470 which in turn it's about R9-290..

Remember, PS4 games does not run at PC's max/ultra graphics details (with diminishing visual quality gain results).

Console games needs sustain AF (Anisotropic Filtering) at 16X settings to maximise the visual quality for their existing texture art assets.

@ronvalencia: Which doesn't address the elephant in the room. Is NEO going to be a meaningful step up (framerate or IQ), or is it just going to crank some detail settings a little higher? My money is on the later, it isn't enough. Skorpio will be the 1080p60 machine.

Scorpios GPU solution would be faster than stock RX-480 and PC's tessellation politics doesn't exist in game consoles.

Expect NEO's GPU to be slower than R9-390.

AMD's Puma/Steppe Eagle (GX-424CC model) has 2.4 Ghz quad core at 25 watts and 28 nm process tech.

so does that mean ps5 late 2018? i feel like ms is pulling what nintendo tried to do with the wii-u and jumping ahead in the generation....scorpio is the next xbox..not a mid gen upgrade...it starts next year with the nx being the beginning of gen 9 and ms releasing the second gen 9 console. sony will be last

DX11 is dead end API and you know it.

54 fps / 37 fps = 1.45X. FLOPS gap between R9-290X and Fury X is 1.53X

What a disaster lol. Unless they wanna stick in a 1070 in there I don't understand how they think any game could hit 60fps at 4k. Silly mid gen console. Should've just waited 3 more years for the current tech to get cheaper then give us true 4k at 60fps. Glad I mainly game on pc, this crap is getting silly.

Yet another Xbox One port.... Reduce the setting by 1 step for R9-290.

MS pushing Sony to a wall think about this

Xbox Scorpio 4Q 2017

Nintendo NX 4Q 2017

if Sony dont drop ps5 they will look weak being left behind and Neo on the way Sony only have till E3 2017 To grab off the shelf and put it all together for Q4 2017

and According to Analyst Sony just barely got off bankruptcy in the last few years so they wont have much to take a lost on ps5

More info on checkered board rendering from http://wccftech.com/ubisoft-figured-fit-lot-stuff-esram/

Oh so sony confirmed the specs then....oh wait they didn't. Lemmings being scared little kids like usually. Nothing to see here folks.

By the time Scorpio is released PS4/Neo will have so much momentum it'd be like PS2/GC/Xbox all over again.

Link please.

Yeah Sony always had great exclusives in the holiday season, just look at last year...

Very slight improvements and no RAM increase??

To be honest the original PS4 specs were far more impressive in 2013 than Neo's are now! We should see a bigger improvement, like the Scorpio, or i see no reason for the upgrade.

As long as it doesn't have backwards compatibility issues, whatever. They might as well have mid gen refreshes since they want consoles to be streamlined PC's. It's a nice boost besides it having the same amount of memory. Although if the PS5 isn't BC, or has issues with it (in fact i'm not sure if compatibility with older PS4 games will be perfect on the Neo) then this'll probably be the last non Nintendo console I buy.

I'm just glad I waited to buy a Ps4.

Well yeah it will come 1 year or more after it most be stronger.

Na that is lemmings job,one they have being doing since 2013,but not only spec don't matter,sales,exclusives,scores nothing matter to lemms this gen,at least next year they will care about something again...lol

99.99999999999999999999999999999999% of games on PC don't use Vulkan,what you seeing there is something you will not see in most games,kind of like Hitman.

In fact look at the 480 with Vulkan almost matching a 980ti with vulcan 6FPS difference it clearly show the game is being biased heavily toward AMD.

I didn't show just 1 example my link has many games being compare,so it is more accurate than just 1 that is biased,all the test out there and almost all benchmarks show the same,the gap in flop between the Fury X and the R290 is huge yet the difference in frame is more or less what the PS4 has on xbox,the more flops they have the smaller the returns are,a gap of 3TF produce mostly gaps between 7 and 14 FPS,i have see the PS4 beat the xbox one by more than that,and the gap is 500+ Gflops.

Fact is 1.8TF difference between Scorpio and Neo will not yield a great difference since even bigger deltas produce minimal differences.

Maybe you are confusing it with the XBO which is the one with no exclusives,you lemmings have a very screw up touch with reality..hahahaa

There are no Neo only games,now i can't say the same for Scorpio as MS already admit is up to developers..lol

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1720?vs=1721

Miss information my ass,unless you consider 17FPS or 13FPS a huge gap...

Look at Hitman the biggest gap is 18FPS...

Just for comparison... The PS4 on hitman has 12FPS in some parts sustained.

In Tomb Raider the gap was as big as 30FPS between the PS4 and XBO,in Sniper Elite as well,in Project cars it was up to 14FPS.

So again i am not making it up,look it up my link is there comparing many games between both the gaps are rather small for the huge flop difference.

Hell the PS4 has some 500+ Gflops on the XBO yet has produce gaps bigger than in most games in those benchmakrs i just posted,that is because the more flops the returns diminish,i already even compare this inside GCN,you see the 7970 with double the CU of the 7850 and higher clock speed,but the 7970 doesn't double the 7850 performance wise even with double CU,but compare the 7870 with the 7770 which the difference is the same double the CU and the 7870 does double the 7770 in performance in many games.

So yeah the gap between scorpio and Neo will be small considering only 1.8TF is the gap when the FuryX has 3TF on the 290X and most of the gaps are smaller than the gap between the XBO vs PS4 now.

4K on that WeakSauce console will be a slideshow. lol

Poor cows just can't catch a break these dayzzz. :P

@tormentos: Majority of +A grade titles are DX12 and future Microsoft Xbox One ports are heavily bias towards DX12.

I'll use your Anandtech's benchmark to show my point

For random textures, effective memory bandwidth between Fury X and R9-290X is 1.266X.

For uniform textures, effective memory bandwidth between Fury X and R9-290X is 1.47X. This factor is variable and dependent on compression engine's quality.

FLOPS difference between R9-290X and Fury X is 1.48X

----------------------------------------------

Rise of the Tomb Raider DX11 at 4K

Fury X = 30.4

R9-290X = 24.6

Your DX12 benchmark is obsolete with the latest Patch 7

Frame rate difference is 1.23X

One can say, this game is mostly memory bandwidth bound during sync graphics command workload. For memory access, async compute workload would be running out of phase from sync graphics command workload.

----------------------------------------------

Dirt Rally DX11 at 4K

Fury X = 52.6 fps

R9-290X = 41.6 fps

Frame rate difference is 1.264X

One can say, this game is mostly memory bandwidth bound during sync graphics command workload.

----------------------------------------------

Ashes of Singularity DX12 at 4K

Fury X = 45.5 fps

R9-290X = 34.7 fps

Frame rate difference is 1.311X

One can say,

this game is between memory bandwidth and ALU bound.

----------------------------------------------

BattleField 4 at 4K

Fury X = 51.1 fps

R9-290X = 38 fps

Frame rate difference is 1.34X

One can say

,

this game is between memory bandwidth and ALU bound during sync graphics command workload.

----------------------------------------------

Crysis 3 at 4K

Fury X = 27 fps

R9-290X = 19 fps

Frame rate difference is 1.42X

One can say

,

this game is between compressed memory bandwidth and ALU bound during sync graphics command workload.

----------------------------------------------

Hitman DX12 at 4K

Fury X = 44.2 fps

R9-290X = 33.6 fps

Frame rate difference is 1.31X

One can say,this game is between compressed memory bandwidth and ALU bound.

Conclusion:

Higher FLOPS needs to be backed by higher effective memory bandwidth.

Higher effective memory bandwidth needs to be backed by higher FLOPS.

When compared to PS4 NEO, Xbox Scorpio has higher memory bandwidth and higher FLOPS.

Based on effective memory bandwidth, one can predict Xbox Scorpio's performance relative to PS4 NEO and anything extra is a bonus.

Based on effective memory bandwidth and FLOPS, RX-480 falls into R9-290XR9-390/R9-390X range. RX-480's memory compression seems to be better than Fury X.

RX-480's memory compression booster factor: 1.36X

RX-480's memory bandwidth efficiency: 75.78 percent

PS4 NEO's 218 GB/s memory bandwidth

Effective memory bandwidth estimate: 224 GB/s

XBox Scorpio's 320 GB/s memory bandwidth

Effective memory bandwidth estimate: 329 GB/s

The effective memory bandwidth gap between the two consoles is 1.46X

The FLOPS gap between the two consoles is 1.42X

Microsoft made sure Scorpio's higher FLOPS power is backed by higher effective memory bandwidth.

If a hermit (with NVIDIA approach) is going to configure a games machine, both effective memory bandwidth and FLOPS should scale with each other.

For Scorpio, Microsoft is not making same mistakes as Xbox One i.e.

1. Avoid tiny memory storage with high memory bandwidth that requires special treatment.

2. Avoid insufficient FLOPS resources with high memory bandwidth.

PS4 didn't deliver true 1.4X power over XBO since both memory bandwidth and CPU didn't scale with 1.4X.

I made my comments as a Hermit(with NVIDIA approach) when config a gaming machine.