Racing w/ 20 other people online>>> Crash damage

I don't know why Polyphony won't implement the crashes. I mean you can have realistic damage and crashes without showing them visualy. Just implement the physics and damage results without visual effects. So when you crash you end the race, even if your car looks brand new. It's not perfect, but still beats no damage

take a look at this NetKar PRO vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXaFQncm2gg

netkar pro is quite likely THE most realistic racing sim ever made, it physics make Forza2 play like an arcade in comparision, it's even a LOT better than GTR2. And it has great damage/crash model. It even simulates drivers injuries. But it was a game bassicaly made by one guy and he doesn't have the resources to make visual damages, so the game just doesn't show the flying parts, broken metal etc. No matter what the crash is, the car stays perfectly fine visualy, but the game simulates the damage it had recieved with physics.

AdrianWerner

Have you played this game yourself? If so, how difficult is it to assess the damage without any visual representation? In Forza, there is still a little guesswork as to what the problem is, but by and large you can see it. I would think that with no visuals, your car would be damaged and you wouldn't know how to compensate?

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

I don't know why Polyphony won't implement the crashes. I mean you can have realistic damage and crashes without showing them visualy. Just implement the physics and damage results without visual effects. So when you crash you end the race, even if your car looks brand new. It's not perfect, but still beats no damage

take a look at this NetKar PRO vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXaFQncm2gg

netkar pro is quite likely THE most realistic racing sim ever made, it physics make Forza2 play like an arcade in comparision, it's even a LOT better than GTR2. And it has great damage/crash model. It even simulates drivers injuries. But it was a game bassicaly made by one guy and he doesn't have the resources to make visual damages, so the game just doesn't show the flying parts, broken metal etc. No matter what the crash is, the car stays perfectly fine visualy, but the game simulates the damage it had recieved with physics.

whoisryanmack

Have you played this game yourself? If so, how difficult is it to assess the damage without any visual representation? In Forza, there is still a little guesswork as to what the problem is, but by and large you can see it. I would think that with no visuals, your car would be damaged and you wouldn't know how to compensate?

I've played it long ago, but there are visual/hud indicators AFAIR. Plus how do you compensate? It's hardcore sim, you crash it either means you end the race, or you have to quickly go to pit stop for repairs(which can take up to 10 minutes..now that's a realistic penalty for crashing)

[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

I don't know why Polyphony won't implement the crashes. I mean you can have realistic damage and crashes without showing them visualy. Just implement the physics and damage results without visual effects. So when you crash you end the race, even if your car looks brand new. It's not perfect, but still beats no damage

take a look at this NetKar PRO vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXaFQncm2gg

netkar pro is quite likely THE most realistic racing sim ever made, it physics make Forza2 play like an arcade in comparision, it's even a LOT better than GTR2. And it has great damage/crash model. It even simulates drivers injuries. But it was a game bassicaly made by one guy and he doesn't have the resources to make visual damages, so the game just doesn't show the flying parts, broken metal etc. No matter what the crash is, the car stays perfectly fine visualy, but the game simulates the damage it had recieved with physics.

AdrianWerner

Have you played this game yourself? If so, how difficult is it to assess the damage without any visual representation? In Forza, there is still a little guesswork as to what the problem is, but by and large you can see it. I would think that with no visuals, your car would be damaged and you wouldn't know how to compensate?

I've played it long ago, but there are visual/hud indicators AFAIR. Plus how do you compensate? It's hardcore sim, you crash it either means you end the race, or you have to quickly go to pit stop for repairs(which can take up to 10 minutes..now that's a realistic penalty for crashing)

Well, I was assuming that with entirely realistic damage (although I don't know how much this game has, I might be assuming too much), there would be damage that is still raceable. Not every small suspension or braking tweak means a must pit stop, especially in the closing laps. I was really thinking of flat spots in tires, and camber "adjustments". With a quality force feedback wheel, this wouldn't be a problem at all now that I think about it (if it were programmed for). I was just curious.

So what's the point of your arguement? You will still have to take racing lines to win either way. If you get bumped you go into a wall and it will take time for you to recover anyways. right? In forza, someone screws you up, you lose the race. You are acting like the person in back of you cant pit manouver you and take the lead and win the race while you yourself suffer the penalty for going into the wall and grass. Many of the races are based off of pure luck sometimes w/ you missing collisions. As long as there are collision physics in GT5 which there is no excuse there not to be, racing can be realistic to an extent and fun.

SupraGT

WARNING!More than 5 quotes in a post, flaming, trolling and posting in an account suicide thread will result in a moderation, and a possible suspension on your account. In addition, discussion about Downgraders, Emulators, Flash Cards, ROMs and Homebrew can also lead to a suspension or the possibility of permanent ban.

Justto let u know.

[QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="SupraGT"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="SupraGT"][QUOTE="whoisryanmack"][QUOTE="SupraGT"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"][QUOTE="SupraGT"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Since when has GT5 been confirmed to have 20 players online?

SupraGT

I'm still waiting on a response to this. ^^

they didnt confirm it yet, but dont be surpriesed if you see it. It was a thing that they mentioned, just like car interiors. Damage is a whole different aspect so don't say "just like damage"

So wait a minute, let me get this straight. You're basing this thread on, and claiming ownage about something that mightbe true?

Wow...just...wow. :|

it's not "might" be true, but will most likely be true. GT4 already has online on the PS2 in japan. It's just moving forward from there. RFOM has 40 and runs smooth. GT5 will have 20 cars and run smooth. I guess you lemmings are jealous that PS3 has a better online service.

A better online service will not make up for inferior games. As has been said, with no damage, a race between 20, 40, 200 people will be no more realistic or fun than a race with 3. Besides, what do I care if there are 6 people behind me, or 19?

or 6 people infront of you.

The racing field will feel more realistic and less shallow. It will feel like you are actually apart of JGTC which are cars that are interesting to drive in GT4. The only interesting classes in forza are A and B class. Sometimes C. More cars=more intensity.

But why would the racing be intense when the strategy that wins has nothing to do with racing? Bouncing off others thru corners and at braking zones will become standard fare...which needless to say is not JGTC racing of any sort. Also, there are JGTC cars available to race in Forza. Classes R4, R3,R2,and R1 are all spec series cars of different types. Each manufacturer that fields a real team has at least 1 of each, and most have up to 5-10 just like GT4. You also forgot S class (supercars) and U class (modded supercars, or limited hypercars). There is much more to Forza than some of you would like to believe I see.

Racing=/= crashing into each other on purpose. And with collision physics I'm sure people will want to avoid that. This wont be GT4. No one races in those classes onlineanyways.

Exactly, racing does not equal crashing in other people on purpose. Forza mimics that quite well by penalizing you for doing so, both making your lap slower, and by damaging your car to the extent of the crash. So, you actually have to run quality lines, and plan passes and braking points accordingly.

GT with no damage however, will encourage this tactic. I've played all 4 GT's to death, and I know that if you're in a pinch to win, using another car as a bumper is an effective tool because of the way the cars react to each other. You actually gain a cornering or braking advantage by using that tactic. What's to stop people from using it? Nothing, and rest assured they will exploit the advantage....likely to the point that GT5 racing will be nothing like real racing in any way. It will become a cheat contest.

So what's the point of your arguement? You will still have to take racing lines to win either way. If you get bumped you go into a wall and it will take time for you to recover anyways. right? In forza, someone screws you up, you lose the race. You are acting like the person in back of you cant pit manouver you and take the lead and win the race while you yourself suffer the penalty for going into the wall and grass. Many of the races are based off of pure luck sometimes w/ you missing collisions. As long as there are collision physics in GT5 which there is no excuse there not to be, racing can be realistic to an extent and fun.

If you can't see the point of what I said, then GT5 will be just the ticket for you I think. Why would I have to take racing lines when I can just pull up beside another car and use it to gain a cornering advantage? I sure as hell won't have to worry about braking points, or turn apexes. As a bonus, the other guy will be pushed off into the grass never to recover. I won't recieve any penalty, damage or timewise, and I'll continue to do that throughout the race (this is actually encouraged by the fact that I will have more racers to "use"). GT racing will become a competition in who can best use the bumper cars to their advantage.

Pit manuevers in Forza are not a profitable venture. You run a serious risk at sim damage level of hurting your own car in the process, or missing the manuever and flying into the grass/wall. Besides that, while you are "pitting" someone, another racer taking a good line will smoke you. This is all assuming you are racing anyone who is any good.

If you can't see the point of what I said, then GT5 will be just the ticket for you I think. Why would I have to take racing lines when I can just pull up beside another car and use it to gain a cornering advantage? I sure as hell won't have to worry about braking points, or turn apexes. As a bonus, the other guy will be pushed off into the grass never to recover. I won't recieve any penalty, damage or timewise, and I'll continue to do that throughout the race (this is actually encouraged by the fact that I will have more racers to "use"). GT racing will become a competition in who can best use the bumper cars to their advantage.

Pit manuevers in Forza are not a profitable venture. You run a serious risk at sim damage level of hurting your own car in the process, or missing the manuever and flying into the grass/wall. Besides that, while you are "pitting" someone, another racer taking a good line will smoke you. This is all assuming you are racing anyone who is any good.

Pit manuevers are low risk high reward in forza as it is in real life, but there is no penalty for whoever does it. And the damage is so small that it doesnt even matter. And I still dont see what you are trying to say about GT5. It will be like real racing w/o the damage. It wont be bumper cars.

If you can't see the point of what I said, then GT5 will be just the ticket for you I think. Why would I have to take racing lines when I can just pull up beside another car and use it to gain a cornering advantage? I sure as hell won't have to worry about braking points, or turn apexes. As a bonus, the other guy will be pushed off into the grass never to recover. I won't recieve any penalty, damage or timewise, and I'll continue to do that throughout the race (this is actually encouraged by the fact that I will have more racers to "use"). GT racing will become a competition in who can best use the bumper cars to their advantage.

Pit manuevers in Forza are not a profitable venture. You run a serious risk at sim damage level of hurting your own car in the process, or missing the manuever and flying into the grass/wall. Besides that, while you are "pitting" someone, another racer taking a good line will smoke you. This is all assuming you are racing anyone who is any good.

Pit manuevers are low risk high reward in forza as it is in real life, but there is no penalty for whoever does it. And the damage is so small that it doesnt even matter. And I still dont see what you are trying to say about GT5. It will be like real racing w/o the damage. It wont be bumper cars.

SupraGT

Like I said, if the damage to your car doesn't stop you, the fact that you've been lining up and pulling off a pit manuever will slow you down to the point of being passed. The only way you could spin someone on purpose and not lose time, would be to smash into someone on a braking zone or a slow corner. The problem with the brake zone hit, it will most definitely take a toll on your car. You might be able to get away with it once or twice, but it won't be a winning strategy. As soon as your front alignment goes, you'rebasically done for. Slow corner hitsprobably won'twreck the car, but they will slow you significantly, and spinning someone in a slow corner is difficult, it may not even work. Regardless,someone avoiding damage and worrying about racing will beat you.

If you don't know what I'm talking about with GT, I can't really explain it any better than that. You seem to not have played any previous GT's or you'd know what I'm talking about. Bumping other cars from behind when brakingand using them to hold you in corners has no consequence, and in most instances, will make you faster. It also knocks the other person either into the grass, or will actually make them faster as well (absolutely ridiculous). Heck, you can even ride the walls and never turn to get good lap times on some GT tracks.

1) Why do some people always have to have more/bigger of somthing. People buying a bigger car, boat, house or whatever. Tis very sad and its similar in games. For example some gamers say why this is the best it supports 32/64 ppl or this level is x8 bigger than that level. Most people should know thats not better equates too.

This is why 20 people ina racing game will be very hard to work. Most Gamers are bad losers and they like to believe they have a chance in games to keep them interested. But imagine in a game with 20 and people 1 by 1 dropping out coz they are last. Always been the problem with racers and only PGR3 and Forza have worked a career into multiplayer so that quitting isnt a good option (still happens tho) with 20 it may be more frequent and annoying. Bumper cars with 20 will be very irritating also, real-time or semidamage is needed in a large racer more than a smaller 1 imo.

2) Forza2 is a great game but did disappoint me in some areas and wasnt as next gen as I'd like. But saying that the last Gt was the worst released to date and didnt do anything for me and Forza spanked its ass big time.

Comparing these games now seems silly as GT5 will most likely be compared to a) next PGR or b) Forza 3... GT will ont be out anytime early next year I promise you that. ANybody waiting for GT2/3/4 should know this.

[QUOTE="SupraGT"]

If you can't see the point of what I said, then GT5 will be just the ticket for you I think. Why would I have to take racing lines when I can just pull up beside another car and use it to gain a cornering advantage? I sure as hell won't have to worry about braking points, or turn apexes. As a bonus, the other guy will be pushed off into the grass never to recover. I won't recieve any penalty, damage or timewise, and I'll continue to do that throughout the race (this is actually encouraged by the fact that I will have more racers to "use"). GT racing will become a competition in who can best use the bumper cars to their advantage.

Pit manuevers in Forza are not a profitable venture. You run a serious risk at sim damage level of hurting your own car in the process, or missing the manuever and flying into the grass/wall. Besides that, while you are "pitting" someone, another racer taking a good line will smoke you. This is all assuming you are racing anyone who is any good.

Pit manuevers are low risk high reward in forza as it is in real life, but there is no penalty for whoever does it. And the damage is so small that it doesnt even matter. And I still dont see what you are trying to say about GT5. It will be like real racing w/o the damage. It wont be bumper cars.

whoisryanmack

Like I said, if the damage to your car doesn't stop you, the fact that you've been lining up and pulling off a pit manuever will slow you down to the point of being passed. The only way you could spin someone on purpose and not lose time, would be to smash into someone on a braking zone or a slow corner. The problem with the brake zone hit, it will most definitely take a toll on your car. You might be able to get away with it once or twice, but it won't be a winning strategy. As soon as your front alignment goes, you'rebasically done for. Slow corner hitsprobably won'twreck the car, but they will slow you significantly, and spinning someone in a slow corner is difficult, it may not even work. Regardless,someone avoiding damage and worrying about racing will beat you.

If you don't know what I'm talking about with GT, I can't really explain it any better than that. You seem to not have played any previous GT's or you'd know what I'm talking about. Bumping other cars from behind when brakingand using them to hold you in corners has no consequence, and in most instances, will make you faster. It also knocks the other person either into the grass, or will actually make them faster as well (absolutely ridiculous). Heck, you can even ride the walls and never turn to get good lap times on some GT tracks.

Well my other account got banned for some reason.
Don't you know what a pit manuever is? It requires very little force and wont slow you down that much. Esp, w/ RWD cars, you can completely make them lose 100% of the tires traction with one simpletap from the siderear causing almost no damage to your car. You are essentially disrupting the force vectors that are going straight to somewhere else. It sure beats smashing into someone.

I've played pretty much all the GTs and they had no collision physics. What I am saying is GT5 will at least have collision physics.

I agree,if Polyphony can pull off 15-20 racers online,then GT5 will be a revolution. Regarding the crash damage,the thing that makes me chuckle is there are people who actually claim Forza 2's crash damage is realistic. When you drive into a wall at over 100MPH,in the real world,your car will probably be done for. In Forza,your bumper falls off.Dualshockin