Radeon VII reveal burries the hopes for trully High-end Next-gen consoles.

1. It's not a study. If it is, link the study.

2. Controllers have lower skill ceiling due to less variable speed and aim. One of the main reasons why PC is home to competitive and esports, while PS4 practically has no competitive scene outside of 1 low population game.

3. PC holds 90%+ of competitive gaming and esports, and a majority of the high skill cap gaming and professional gamers. I can link to you the tournament stats if you want.

Anyway, you were wrong about red state obesity, red state education, right vs left terrorism (as shown ITT), global warming, Trump polling, DACA, IQ in USA, competitive gaming stats, GFX KING, and PC winning this gen. You've lost all debates and will continue to lose all debates. For one reason: I have the facts.

P.S. Uhh...you bumped this 18 hour old thread to randomly attack me with off-topic nonsense. Derail what?

@zaryia: You lost again and keep losing. Zayria 0 and 12 meltdown confirmed.

Consoles are like buying a McD cheeseburger. It's small, pre-made with pretty simple condiments while being dirt cheap and comes with a small fries. A PC is like having a cook out in your backyard. You customize your condiments, your buns and the meat. It can be as fancy and expensive as you want and you can have more options with sides such as fries, onion rings, apple pie, etc.

So obviously any upcoming console is going to use todays parts that can be had for a reasonable priced CPU/GPU and then shove them into a super cheap motherboard with cheap capacitors, cheap audio components, etc.

The Government Accountability Office is wrong because I said so! (You dropped this like a hot rock in the last page, you know you were wrong about terrorism.)

Gamespot score tally is wrong because I said so!

Red states don't have higher obesity because I said so!

Esports data figure are wrong because I aid so!

Rofl! Keep it up champ. You might beat me one day. As soon as facts disappear.

@zaryia:

Study do not mean fact. Just to be sure you know this. Whether you is right or wrong just having to links studies to your side of debate doesn’t always give more weight to your arguments.

If I link 3 valid studies from reputable sources confirming a factual figure, his reply can't be "nu uh" and expected to say he won that debate by typing "nu uh" as a rebuttal.

That's what he does in every thread. A random search first thread I find he does it here against me and never responds once owned,

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/political-gamers-909409192/fact-check-trump-incorrectly-states-that-democrats-33435268/

What's the best looking full release current generation PC game?

How should games that should be running up to 12TF GPUs look compared to base 1.8 and 1.3TF systems?

I'm trying to determine what high end next generation console games should look like because, by the sound of this thread, some people seem to think PC short comings somehow represent what consoles will be able to achieve.

@zaryia:

It depend on substance of study. Not always help your side of argument.

I take extreme example for you:

I take survey of 1000 people from X race(I exclude any name because it not matter who). It say in finish study that 900 out of these 1000 people are criminal. In grand scheme of thing this hold no weight if someone say X race is mostly criminals because I show this as a link. That not fact.

Those aren't the kind of studies I linked for terrorism, and If I did use a survey I would make sure it had a detailed methodology page.

I just posted straight data from 3 sources showing right wing terror killed 10x more people in modern history. It's recorded facts.

His response: Fake News.

BFV PC is current gfx king. Even @blackhairedhero agrees (another loss).

@zaryia:

I do not read the discussion :). I click on topic thinking it system war about games and see then people talking about terrorist.

Sorry he bumped this 1 day old thread to randomly attack me a few hours ago because I was owning him in another thread.

@zaryia:

It okay. Kids of today have tendency to be hurtful. It too much social media. I say even many adult lose sight of what being adult is, too. Imagine being very old and looking at world to come where everyone is so hostile. Very scare to think of this.

@zaryia: Your studies were all from the same source and grouped right wing and Christian extremism together.

1. You never set a criteria for how a system wins System Wars you just made shit up.

2. Never said they didn't. I called a liberal fat and you had a meltdown and said liberals were less likely to be fat because red states have higher obesity. A classic case of creating an irrelevant point when you get owned.

3. Didn't say they were wrong. But it didn't prove your point. Esports is dominant on PC due to its popularity in Asia. The figures show that.

Yes I'm undefeated against you as usual. You can never stay on topic because you always post a point to insinuate something else and then defend that one point which us completely irrelevant to the original topic being discussed.

@zaryia: No BFV is not king. Stop lying and making shit up.

Your opinion is that those 3 sources are incorrect. Now offer the citation proving this. I'm inclined to believe The Cato Institute and the US Government over some dweeb on the interwebs.

You lost that debate until counter data is given. I have 3 studies directly agreeing with me. You have "nu uh". I won, objectively speaking.

ROFL, BFV PC isn't graphics king? Are you a nutjob?

1. BFV isn't a game built specifically for PC.

2. BFV is a game built and designed around 1.3 + 1.8TF systems, a console port!

3. The Proof is in the budding. Exhibit A:

High End PC vs Xbox One X

So, with ULTRA setting on a High end PC's with 12TF GPU's, "this" is the biggest difference between the best looking PC game and the strongest "current" generation console?

And you can't understand why I think you people making this argument are silly?

An ant will never be stronger than an elephant no matter how many more times the ant can lift his own body weight.

4. This is the important one: The power of your PC's are NOT being used in the development of games!

You PC dudes don't seem to understand what generations mean. Nothing is impressive about a 12TF system looking ever so slightly better than a 6TF one. They're both only polishing up 1.8TF developed games.

If you're saying a 1.8TF developed console port is the best looking game on PC right now, even with those 12TF+ PC systems showing such a small difference between the best looking console version, then you've just given yourself an automatic L in this discussion.

5. Lastly: when next gen consoles come release, only then will you see games that are truly designed to run systems of 8TFs and above and then you'll understand what the term NEXT GEN really means.

It's embarrassing to see PC gamers talk about "next generation" when they don't have a clue what it means.

1. Youtube compression.

2. I'm not sure what you're talking about, but BFV is currently gfx king and is best on PC.

"then you've just given yourself an automatic L in this discussion."

3. Hi giovela or reCloud. How is 2nd place treating you this gen? (In both games, gfx, online,etc).

@zaryia: Its the way they factored data. But by that standard console gamers have more skill. I'll take scientific evidence over some butthurt incel such as yourself.

And no BFV is not king. Outside of RT it does nothing special.

BFV is gfx king.

PC is the best gfx. Best online. Best library. It is first place here.

But I'm not on the right, and I've been with gorgeous women. You need Dictionary.com?

@zaryia: Come up with your own material. You're an Incel that's why you study them so much. That's all you talk about. I'm married so I can't be an incel.

I've never seen anyone so obsessed with an irrelevant internet subculture.

And two out of the three guys at DF didn't pick BFV. You lose again.

Prove this with direct citation within 4 hours or you lost yet again. This time you will permanently be my dog if this happens for the 20th time.

lol I'm not saying BFV isn't the best looking game on PC, I'm saying you're giving yourself an automatic L by admiring that a 1.8TF console port is the best on your mighty PC.

You saying this proving you PC guys don't know anything about generations. lol you seriously couldn't figure out what I was saying in this post?

Like, do I literally have to spell it out for you?

Your PC's, as powerful as they are, are little more than console port polishers at this point and have 0 impact on console generations. Stop talking as if what PC is showing has any impact on what consoles will be doing next generation.

I'll dumb it down ever further:

BFV is built and designed around a 1.8TF system! This is why there is so little difference between Xbox One X and a High end PC. Generations signify a development baseline. The base line this gen is PS4 and Xbox One 1.3/1.8TF systems. No matter how powerful your PC is you're only going to make those games look so good better before you end up simply wasting resources.

Next gen the BASELINE will probably be a minimum of 6TF, with a ceiling of 12TF. My point? You don't have a clue what next gen games look like because there are none made to that standard.

Star Citizen would be the closest example of what to expect from next generation graphics on consoles. That is the only game that was built far above current generation console standards ( utilize a minimum 6TF system requirement basically 1060GTX).

https://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=5490&game=Star%20Citizen

Do you understand now? Star Citizen is what was accomplished by simply making a game's minimum requirement a 6TF system. Consoles will be around 12TF!

Those kinds of graphics which you PC fans were so excited about this gen that never fully released will become the *standard* for next gen console games but will not be the best consoles will be able to achieve by a long shot.

Don't really care about your opinion and whatever you're going on about here.

I'm just telling you PC is almost always the gfx king and 90%+ of video games are better (visuals/fps) on PC. Including BFV (best on PC).

It's the best system and won SW this gen and last gen.

@zaryia:

Again

Next gen the BASELINE will probably be a minimum of 6TF, with a ceiling of 12TF.

Star Citizen would be the closest example of what to expect from next generation graphics on consoles. That is the only game that was built far above current generation console standards ( utilize a minimum 6TF system requirement basically 1060GTX).

https://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=5490&game=Star%20Citizen

Star Citizen is what was accomplished by simply making a game's minimum requirement a 6TF system. Consoles will be around 12TF!

Those kinds of graphics which you PC fans were so excited about this gen that never fully released will become the *standard* for next gen console games but will not be the best consoles will be able to achieve by a long shot.

BTW:

What are your system specs?

Thats awesome and all. But like I said before, BFV PC is currently gfx king and best on PC.

I'm just stating the facts, no need to keep spamming red-herrings at me.

Oh, so you have this quality of water on consoles?

I never knew. Can you prove it?

@zaryia: Non-gaming discussions doesn't belong in system wars.

Please tell this to the person who bumped a day old untouched thread to randomly insult me and started the quote chain off.

For MS platforms, DirectML is the abstraction layer for Rapid Pack Math machine learning instruction set. NV Turing/Volta and AMD VII supports hardware Rapid Pack Math machine leaning instruction set. DirectML has DirectX12 fallback capability on older hardware.

**Vega 64 is missing INT4 and other AI machine learning instruction set from VII. VII has INT4, INT8, INT16 and FP16 rapid pack math machine learning instruction set.

DirectML would be important for de-noise (1) few light bounce real time ray-tracing.

Radeon-Rays are already processing BVH search tree with GPU compute power and the next step is de-noise pass (1).

Titan V "Volta" can run BattleField V ray tracing. https://wccftech.com/titan-v-high-fps-battlefield-v-rtx/ BVH search tree functions being run on compute shader power instead of RT cores. De-noise pass being run Volta's Tensor cores (NV's Rapid Pack Math hardware). RT cores = BVH search tree database accelerator.

Reference

1. http://cgicoffee.com/blog/2018/03/what-is-nvidia-rtx-directx-dxr

Reality check. What is NVIDIA RTX Technology? What is DirectX DXR? Here's what they can and cannot do

Vega means nothing for consoles...

AMD's Arcturus still has star code name similar to Polaris, Vega and Navi.

Expect Arcturus as evolved GCN just as Turing being evolved Pascal which evolved Maxwell V2.

Hawaii GCN changed raster engine count from two to four and stayed with four raster engines under Raja "Mr TFLOPS" Koduri when He joined AMD in 2013.

Before Raja Koduri when He joined AMD in April 2013.

Northern Islands introduces dual raster engines in December 15, 2010

Hawaii GCN introduces quad raster engines in October 24, 2013 (too late for Raja Koduri directional changes)

Raja Koduri leaves AMD for Intel in November 2017.

For year 2019 and after nearly 5 years, no increase with four raster engine unit count. It's overdue for raster unit count increase.

Without Raja Koduri, it took AMD to change from dual raster to four raster engines about 3 years.

Arcturus refers to a giant star located in northern sky like Vega.

AMD needs to master 16 ROPS per 64 bit memory bus just like Pascal's design.

Next gen consoles will be on Navi

Not 100 percent correct based from history

PS4 Pro's GPU has Polaris IP and Vega subset feature e.g. Rapid Pack Math which is missing with Polaris IP, hence it's semi-custom GPU. This GPU has 40 CU.

X1X's GPU has Polaris IP and near Vega ROPS design with 2MB render cache which is missing with Polaris IP, hence it's semi-custom GPU. This GPU has 44 CU. Microsoft focused on improving rasterization with X1X's GPU.

NAVI 12 has 40 CU.

Zayria why are you hyping top end PC graphics when the GTX 970 in your PC can't even match X1X?

If hyping graphics and hardware you don't have is allowed in a debate then....

My yet to be purchased PS5 >>>>> Any PC

Is that what he has?

lol no wonder he kept deflecting my question, my PC, a 1060, is stronger than his.

Him and PC_Rocks both have weak PC's.......... they spend all day hyping graphics they will never have on their own PC.

PC people seem to make the same mistake every gen, and assume that the average consumer is a graphics whore.

Similar to buying VW Golf while cheering for Audi R8

@ronvalencia: ROFL Hey guys PC gaming is so good! I love ultra settings on my 4k monitor with my GTX 970. **Sarcasm**

So you just made an alt because you were butthurt? That's cute.

I guess that's why almost every console game is made with a graphics over performance mantra. It's also funny how PlayStation fans always hype every big Sony exclusive as graphics king, because obviously they don't care about graphics.

Who is him? Zariya has a crap PC? That's weird he never stops talking about PC graphics

@goldenelementxl said:

@ronvalencia: You spent a year+ telling us the Xbox One X GPU was equal to a GTX 1070. (and at one point you started talking 1080) What did we end up with???

Source

Performance is estimated****

It's like you completely missed every thread in SW... There's a reason consoles still rock ~30 fps.

@lundy86_4: 60+ FPS >>>> Shiny graphics any fucking day.

Good thing PC can do both, though :P

@goldenelementxl said:

@ronvalencia: You spent a year+ telling us the Xbox One X GPU was equal to a GTX 1070. (and at one point you started talking 1080) What did we end up with???

Source

Against Techpowerup's selection e.g. https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_RTX_2060_Founders_Edition/

Assassin's Creed Origins (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Battlefield 1 (2016)

Call of Duty: WWII (2017)

Civilization VI (2016)

Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (AMD, 2016)

Divinity Original Sin II (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Dragon Quest XI (Unreal 4 DX11, NVIDIA Bias, 2018)

F1 2018 (2018)

Far Cry 5 (AMD, 2018)

Ghost Recon Wildlands (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Grand Theft Auto V (2013)

Hellblade: Senuas Sacrif (UE4 DX11, NVIDIA Gameworks)

Hitman (AMD, 2016)

Monster Hunter World (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018)

Middle-earth: Shadow of War (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Prey (DX11, NVIDIA Bias, 2017 )

Rainbow Six: Siege (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2015)

Rise of the Tomb Raider (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2015)

Sniper Elite 4 (AMD, 2017, NVIDIA Bias)

SpellForce 3 (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2017)

Strange Brigade (AMD, 2018), should replace Sniper Elite 4 due to the same game company

The Witcher 3 (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2015)

Wolfenstein II (2017)

Battlefield V RTX (NVIDIA Gameworks, 2018)

-------

Missing Gears of War 4 (UE4 DX12, 2016)

Missing Forza Motosport 7 (2017)

Missing Forza Horzion 4 (2018)

Missing TitanFall 2 (2016)

Missing The Division (2016), with incoming The Division 2 (2019, AMD)

Missing Doom 2016 (2016, AMD)

Missing Resident Evil 7 (2017), with incoming Devil May Cry 5 (2019, AMD) and Resident Evil 2 Remake (2019, AMD)

Missing Killer Instinct Season 3 (2016)

@jasonofa36: Anything below 60fps has become an annoyance to me. I'm shocked my 1070 is rocking so hard... I contemplated moving to a 1080ti today as opposed to the 2xxx series, but the 1080ti is just as expensive now. It's $1600+ for Christ's sake.

@lundy86_4: Yeah, Nvidia stopped producing the 1080 Ti chips just to force RTX down our throats. Dick move. But as expected from Nvidia.

@jasonofa36: Yup. Just a dick move, considering the market just showed Nvidia that RTX just isn't ready at that price-point. Wanks.