Reasons for PS3 inferiormultiplats: Devs or hardware?

[QUOTE="actionjunkie10"][QUOTE="godzillavskong"]Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I prefer Gears 3's look over Uncharted and I actually thought KZ2 looked better than KZ3. God of War 3 looks very good, although a lot of multiplats look just as good, if not better, like RDR, or AC. All in all both have games that pretty much look on par with the other and I haven't seen any game on either system which makes me think the other can't produce the same. delta3074

[QUOTE="actionjunkie10"][QUOTE="godzillavskong"]Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I prefer Gears 3's look over Uncharted and I actually thought KZ2 looked better than KZ3. God of War 3 looks very good, although a lot of multiplats look just as good, if not better, like RDR, or AC. All in all both have games that pretty much look on par with the other and I haven't seen any game on either system which makes me think the other can't produce the same. delta3074

No offense or anything man because I like you and everything, but why do you take Digital Foundry so seriously? It's just a joke like Lens of Truth and there isn't anything special about their comparisons, anyone can do them on a PC. Also you didn't really counter any of his arguments, just because some site like DF says something doesn't mean anything, there are no xbox games that look as good as Uncharted or Killzone 3 ect... I think it's because xbox came out first so they didn't spend the time with it, not saying it isn't possible, but at this point the 360 hasn't really showed it.

[QUOTE="sts106mat"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

NO my tag is for my friends period,you are not the only one who i have say no,if you want i can take a picture of it with your name on it now,and post it hell i would even put Gears 3 in.

CanYouDiglt

But to be fair I do not think Tormentos owns a 360 lol

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="actionjunkie10"] When you have lemming goggles on of course you are going to see things the way you want to see it, and not for what is. In reality, Uncharted is doing a lot more impressive things under the hood then Gears is, and Uncharted has the artistic style that Gears doesn't have, to match its technical prowess. Gears doesn't hold a candle to Uncharted and i cant believe lemmings even argue it other wise. lmao Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CBd6QX8nps NUFF SAID! And God of War 3 is absolutely one of the best looking games this gen. Its stunning! Its not some big coincidence that a vast majority of the best looking console games this gen have been PS3 exclusives. That in itself says IT ALL. And the whole multi plat argument IS invalid and irrelevant WHEN the best looking multi plat in Battlefield 3 is superior on the PS3. That reinforces the fact even more so that the PS3 is superior when utilized properly ShadowMoses900

No offense or anything man because I like you and everything, but why do you take Digital Foundry so seriously? It's just a joke like Lens of Truth and there isn't anything special about their comparisons, anyone can do them on a PC. Also you didn't really counter any of his arguments, just because some site like DF says something doesn't mean anything, there are no xbox games that look as good as Uncharted or Killzone 3 ect... I think it's because xbox came out first so they didn't spend the time with it, not saying it isn't possible, but at this point the 360 hasn't really showed it.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]uncharted 3 is the console graphics king, i have said this before but uncharted is not doing a lot more impressive things on the technical level, you are a fool if you think uncharted 3 is miles better than gears 3, it is technically better yes, but not by the huge amount that you keep implying, the problem is when you have cow goggles on you cannot see things for what they actually are. From john carmacks twitter account "I can make benchmarks that will show either the PS3 or 360 to be superior, so they are close, but I prefer the trades on the 360" http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/john-carmack---xbox-and-ps3-ar/1255282 so much for carmack saying the ps3 has much more power, eh Digital foundry on gears 3 "It's safe to say that Gears of War 3 is one of the most advanced video games of this generation, and a ringing endorsement of what the Xbox 360 is capable of handling when the right people, the right tech, a lengthy development cycle and an inordinately large budget are in play. From a technological perspective, with just a few caveats that we've touched upon, the overall presentation is first class." http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-gears-of-war-3?page=2 so yeah, UC3 is better looking but it's not that far ahead of gears 3 technically and lets face it, gears 3 wins totally when it comes to shooting mechanics and cover system, around here we don't just judge games on the re graphics sunshine. digital foundry on battlefield 3 "For the vast majority of the game, the two versions basically look identical" http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-face-off-battlefield-3?page=2 Have a nice day.godzillavskong

No offense or anything man because I like you and everything, but why do you take Digital Foundry so seriously? It's just a joke like Lens of Truth and there isn't anything special about their comparisons, anyone can do them on a PC. Also you didn't really counter any of his arguments, just because some site like DF says something doesn't mean anything, there are no xbox games that look as good as Uncharted or Killzone 3 ect... I think it's because xbox came out first so they didn't spend the time with it, not saying it isn't possible, but at this point the 360 hasn't really showed it.

Yeah that's a good in answer, but in my honest opinion (and I'm beingn COMPLETELY serious here) I find the whole "PS3 has inferior multiplats" to be false, I know people are going to say "but this site says blah blah blah" but I don't honestly care about that because when I see both versions of games I cannot see a difference. It's so minumal that fighting about it is just a big waste of time and I it's made for the fanboys.

That's why I consider sites like Digital Foundry (360 bias) and Lens of Truth (360 bias) or N4G (PS3 bias) to be complete jokes, I say that 360 and PS3 multiplats are equal. That makes some people on here upset but we all know it's the truth, but people can believe what they want.As for exclusives I think the 360 could get games to look like PS3 ones, but devs just haven't took advantage or don't want to develop for it. I don't think either system is really more difficult to develop for than another.

I mean there are a few devs who have daid they don't like developing for PS3, just like there are some that have said they don't like developing for the 360 (yes they do exist) but the vast majority of devs seem to have no issues with either system and some even prefer the PS3. If it wasn't the case than you would see multiplats being vsastly different from each other, which we all now isn't true. Except for fanboys...

[QUOTE="godzillavskong"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

No offense or anything man because I like you and everything, but why do you take Digital Foundry so seriously? It's just a joke like Lens of Truth and there isn't anything special about their comparisons, anyone can do them on a PC. Also you didn't really counter any of his arguments, just because some site like DF says something doesn't mean anything, there are no xbox games that look as good as Uncharted or Killzone 3 ect... I think it's because xbox came out first so they didn't spend the time with it, not saying it isn't possible, but at this point the 360 hasn't really showed it.

ShadowMoses900

Yeah that's a good in answer, but in my honest opinion (and I'm beingn COMPLETELY serious here) I find the whole "PS3 has inferior multiplats" to be false, I know people are going to say "but this site says blah blah blah" but I don't honestly care about that because when I see both versions of games I cannot see a difference. It's so minumal that fighting about it is just a big waste of time and I it's made for the fanboys.

That's why I consider sites like Digital Foundry (360 bias) and Lens of Truth (360 bias) or N4G (PS3 bias) to be complete jokes, I say that 360 and PS3 multiplats are equal. That makes some people on here upset but we all know it's the truth, but people can believe what they want.As for exclusives I think the 360 could get games to look like PS3 ones, but devs just haven't took advantage or don't want to develop for it. I don't think either system is really more difficult to develop for than another.

I mean there are a few devs who have daid they don't like developing for PS3, just like there are some that have said they don't like developing for the 360 (yes they do exist) but the vast majority of devs seem to have no issues with either system and some even prefer the PS3. If it wasn't the case than you would see multiplats being vsastly different from each other, which we all now isn't true. Except for fanboys...

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="godzillavskong"]This may well be a pretty valid point. While I may believe that the PS3 is producing the best looking exclusives, it isn't anything better by leaps and bounds, or which leads me to believe that the 360 couldn't produce the same. This should also be a given, since the 360 is older than the PS3, therefore "supposedly" older tech.. I see them both as pretty equally visually, with some looking better than others and vice versa. delta3074

Yeah that's a good in answer, but in my honest opinion (and I'm beingn COMPLETELY serious here) I find the whole "PS3 has inferior multiplats" to be false, I know people are going to say "but this site says blah blah blah" but I don't honestly care about that because when I see both versions of games I cannot see a difference. It's so minumal that fighting about it is just a big waste of time and I it's made for the fanboys.

That's why I consider sites like Digital Foundry (360 bias) and Lens of Truth (360 bias) or N4G (PS3 bias) to be complete jokes, I say that 360 and PS3 multiplats are equal. That makes some people on here upset but we all know it's the truth, but people can believe what they want.As for exclusives I think the 360 could get games to look like PS3 ones, but devs just haven't took advantage or don't want to develop for it. I don't think either system is really more difficult to develop for than another.

I mean there are a few devs who have daid they don't like developing for PS3, just like there are some that have said they don't like developing for the 360 (yes they do exist) but the vast majority of devs seem to have no issues with either system and some even prefer the PS3. If it wasn't the case than you would see multiplats being vsastly different from each other, which we all now isn't true. Except for fanboys...

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="actionjunkie10"] When you have lemming goggles on of course you are going to see things the way you want to see it, and not for what is. In reality, Uncharted is doing a lot more impressive things under the hood then Gears is, and Uncharted has the artistic style that Gears doesn't have, to match its technical prowess. Gears doesn't hold a candle to Uncharted and i cant believe lemmings even argue it other wise. lmao Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CBd6QX8nps NUFF SAID! And God of War 3 is absolutely one of the best looking games this gen. Its stunning! Its not some big coincidence that a vast majority of the best looking console games this gen have been PS3 exclusives. That in itself says IT ALL. And the whole multi plat argument IS invalid and irrelevant WHEN the best looking multi plat in Battlefield 3 is superior on the PS3. That reinforces the fact even more so that the PS3 is superior when utilized properly edo-tensei

Sure thing Eltormo.clone01

I am eltormo.:|

After been ban i travel back in time 8 years to open an account before many of you even got here so i would not be catch as an alter account when my eltormo account get ban in the future.:cool:

Funny how after i proved again that i own a 360 to some people on denial on this thread,the topic change from you don't own a 360 to you are eltormo.

Some people here just can't stand that i own a 360 and that i can counter their pathetic arguments.

People should stop acting as if its only the 360 that gets the better version multiplates but thats pure lie. All these games below looks and perform better on the ps3 Final fantasy 13 Assasins Creed: Revealation Darksiders Dantes Inferno Deadspace 2 La noire Vanquish Ninja Gaiden 2 Castlevania: lords of shadow Battlefield 3 Saint Rows: the third Portal 2 There are more am sure but these are the few i can remember now.monkeysmoke

Some people just don't want to admit it,just like many don't actually admit that Uncharted 3 beat anything on 360 graphically.

maybe you created the tormentos account (which was dorment for years) and then decided to open a different one because you wanted to be known as eltormo instead. thats sounds a hell of a lot more plausible than travelling back in time. I think we both know the truth, the handrwriting sort of gives it away. Personally though and i mean this most sincerely, i dont really care, you make system wars a fun place and i do enjoy the banter with you dude, please dont change please.sts106mat

Oh please brother stop.

My account was active before yours,the eltormo account is basically a new account and the different in year from my account is very big,why would i want to change my name.?

Just let it go i own a 360 and nothing you or any one here say will change that,which is what basically get most of you histerical.

It is the devs, but the hardware differences between the 360 and the PS3 do play a part. I say so many times why it is the devs. One must look at the development tools available and the exclusives. When you see devs doing it right on the PS3, take Killzone, take Uncharted as examples of the purpose of making a game specifically on a console. There will only be the hardcore 360 fans boys who will say that these game aren't the top of what a console game aspires to be like.

The minute you go multi-platform, it is simple matter of project management. PC game and 360 can use a common code base, very well done from Microsoft's part but they are a software company and make the best development tools on the planet. Now the time come for the PS3 version. Well the engine is the same one but for the PS3. They port the code over to the PS3 and low and behold it almost runs.

mike_on_mic

The "look" would be subjective i.e. you have negate artwork differences.

You are simplifying the porting issues..

For today's raster workloads, the RSX/Geforce 7 is an aging GPU.

From forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=57736&page=5

------------------------

"I could go on for pages listing the types of things the spu's are used for to make up for the machines aging gpu, which may be 7 series NVidia but that's basically a tweaked 6 series NVidia for the most part. But I'll just type a few off the top of my head:"

1) Two ppu/vmx units
There are three ppu/vmx units on the 360, and just one on the PS3. So any load on the 360's remaining two ppu/vmx units must be moved to spu.

2) Vertex culling
You can look back a few years at my first post talking about this, but it's common knowledge now that you need to move as much vertex load as possible to spu otherwise it won't keep pace with the 360.

3) Vertex texture sampling
You can texture sample in vertex shaders on 360 just fine, but it's unusably slow on PS3. Most multi platform games simply won't use this feature on 360 to make keeping parity easier, but if a dev does make use of it then you will have no choice but to move all such functionality to spu.

4) Shader patching
Changing variables in shader programs is cake on the 360. Not so on the PS3 because they are embedded into the shader programs. So you have to use spu's to patch your shader programs.

5) Branching
You never want a lot of branching in general, but when you do really need it the 360 handles it fine, PS3 does not. If you are stuck needing branching in shaders then you will want to move all such functionality to spu.

6) Shader inputs
You can pass plenty of inputs to shaders on 360, but do it on PS3 and your game will grind to a halt. You will want to move all such functionality to spu to minimize the amount of inputs needed on the shader programs.

7) MSAA alternatives
Msaa runs full speed on 360 gpu needing just cpu tiling calculations. Msaa on PS3 gpu is very slow. You will want to move msaa to spu as soon as you can.

8 ) Post processing
360 is unified architecture meaning post process steps can often be slotted into gpu idle time. This is not as easily doable on PS3, so you will want to move as much post process to spu as possible.

9) Load balancing
360 gpu load balances itself just fine since it's unified. If the load on a given frame shifts to heavy vertex or heavy pixel load then you don't care. Not so on PS3 where such load shifts will cause frame drops. You will want to shift as much load as possible to spu to minimize your peak load on the gpu.

10) Half floats
You can use full floats just fine on the 360 gpu. On the PS3 gpu they cause performance slowdowns. If you really need/have to use shaders with many full floats then you will want to move such functionality over to the spu's.

11) Shader array indexing
You can index into arrays in shaders on the 360 gpu no problem. You can't do that on PS3. If you absolutely need this functionality then you will have to either rework your shaders or move it all to spu.

Etc, etc, etc...

A few tweaks here and there and the game becomes playable. It is a simple fact of time. The game run, who cares if it isn't as good, or there is slight slow downs in certain places it is released and it plays, we have 58 million potential people who will buy it, not to mention the 360 and the PC versions. I will also state that Crysis 2 looked great on the PS3 and I thought that Lens of Truth said both versions were the same. With RDR you can see the cut backs the devs made on the PS3 version. No shadows, less grass. These are things you remove to increase performance. Why are they needing to increase performance, shoddy hardware, nope, poor porting of the code. It could be that they are running most code on the PPE and not as much on the SPEs but I am sure many will come up with an argument for that.

mike_on_mic

Crysis 2 PS3 = 1024x720 (TAA + edge post-process))

Crysis 2 Xbox 360 = 1152x720 (TAA + edge post-process)

it's the devs' fault. If it's harder to develop for then spend more time learning or working on it. hey simply don't want to waste the time, money and resources for it

[QUOTE="clone01"]Sure thing Eltormo.tormentos

I am eltormo.:|

After been ban i travel back in time 8 years to open an account before many of you even got here so i would not be catch as an alter account when my eltormo account get ban in the future.:cool:

Funny how after i proved again that i own a 360 to some people on denial on this thread,the topic change from you don't own a 360 to you are eltormo.

Some people here just can't stand that i own a 360 and that i can counter their pathetic arguments.

No problem there, eltormo. You keep posting in barely readable sentences.

Just let it go i own a 360 and nothing you or any one here say will change that,which is what basically get most of you histerical.

tormentos

What does you having a 360 have to do with you being eltormo, eltormo?

i remember checking Tormentos post history as soon as i recognised the eltormo style language, the account had been dormant for years i.e, no postssts106mat

[QUOTE="godzillavskong"][QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

No offense or anything man because I like you and everything, but why do you take Digital Foundry so seriously? It's just a joke like Lens of Truth and there isn't anything special about their comparisons, anyone can do them on a PC. Also you didn't really counter any of his arguments, just because some site like DF says something doesn't mean anything, there are no xbox games that look as good as Uncharted or Killzone 3 ect... I think it's because xbox came out first so they didn't spend the time with it, not saying it isn't possible, but at this point the 360 hasn't really showed it.

ShadowMoses900

Yeah that's a good in answer, but in my honest opinion (and I'm beingn COMPLETELY serious here) I find the whole "PS3 has inferior multiplats" to be false, I know people are going to say "but this site says blah blah blah" but I don't honestly care about that because when I see both versions of games I cannot see a difference. It's so minumal that fighting about it is just a big waste of time and I it's made for the fanboys.

That's why I consider sites like Digital Foundry (360 bias) and Lens of Truth (360 bias) or N4G (PS3 bias) to be complete jokes, I say that 360 and PS3 multiplats are equal. That makes some people on here upset but we all know it's the truth, but people can believe what they want.As for exclusives I think the 360 could get games to look like PS3 ones, but devs just haven't took advantage or don't want to develop for it. I don't think either system is really more difficult to develop for than another.

I mean there are a few devs who have daid they don't like developing for PS3, just like there are some that have said they don't like developing for the 360 (yes they do exist) but the vast majority of devs seem to have no issues with either system and some even prefer the PS3. If it wasn't the case than you would see multiplats being vsastly different from each other, which we all now isn't true. Except for fanboys...