releasing a broken game doesn't ever make any sense; particularly for a new IP..
RedFall is still sold at full price digitally, at retail, on Steam and more.. if the game was a 10/10 banger, it would sell units and push Game Pass subs.. a 4/10 broken mess does nothing but ensure the game doesn't sell and eliminates any potential for new Game Pass subscribers joining the service for this specific game..
The bean counters at Xbox determined releasing a broken game now was more beneficial for business than waiting longer for a 1st party title to be ready. A decision that may have gone the other way in the conventional model since Phil has mentioned saturation with Game Pass recently. But maybe not. Broken games have been a trend lately. But devs having the Game Pass safety net removes a lot of incentives for getting things right out of the gate.
And yes, Xbox published games are still sold to consumers. But look at the NPD lists. The games outside of Minecraft are all MIA. The core Xbox audience is using Game Pass. We really need to cut the shit there and call it how it is. A game can sell 100K copies and chart well…
releasing a broken game doesn't ever make any sense; particularly for a new IP..
RedFall is still sold at full price digitally, at retail, on Steam and more.. if the game was a 10/10 banger, it would sell units and push Game Pass subs.. a 4/10 broken mess does nothing but ensure the game doesn't sell and eliminates any potential for new Game Pass subscribers joining the service for this specific game..
The bean counters at Xbox determined releasing a broken game now was more beneficial for business than waiting longer for a 1st party title to be ready. A decision that may have gone the other way in the conventional model since Phil has mentioned saturation with Game Pass recently. But maybe not. Broken games have been a trend lately. But devs having the Game Pass safety net removes a lot of incentives for getting things right out of the gate.
And yes, Xbox published games are still sold to consumers. But look at the NPD lists. The games outside of Minecraft are all MIA. The core Xbox audience is using Game Pass. We really need to cut the shit there and call it how it is. A game can sell 100K copies and chart well…
alot of sony stuff is buggy to. game breaking lvl normal
Btw can we all agree on the fact that the chances of Starfield coming out in 2023 are now sub 10%? I think this convo needs a thread on its own.
Starfield (and any other game) needs to release when it's ready.. period.. if that's 2024, so be it..
I 100% agree. Reading about how some aspects of Redfall were good makes this fiasco an even bigger bummer. Putting SW aside, this game doing poorly is bad for the hobby. A new IP from an established developer doing poorly is bad. This being the first attempt as a 1st party developer is bad for the industry. There are no “winners” here.
releasing a broken game doesn't ever make any sense; particularly for a new IP..
RedFall is still sold at full price digitally, at retail, on Steam and more.. if the game was a 10/10 banger, it would sell units and push Game Pass subs.. a 4/10 broken mess does nothing but ensure the game doesn't sell and eliminates any potential for new Game Pass subscribers joining the service for this specific game..
The bean counters at Xbox determined releasing a broken game now was more beneficial for business than waiting longer for a 1st party title to be ready. A decision that may have gone the other way in the conventional model since Phil has mentioned saturation with Game Pass recently. But maybe not. Broken games have been a trend lately. But devs having the Game Pass safety net removes a lot of incentives for getting things right out of the gate.
And yes, Xbox published games are still sold to consumers. But look at the NPD lists. The games outside of Minecraft are all MIA. The core Xbox audience is using Game Pass. We really need to cut the shit there and call it how it is. A game can sell 100K copies and chart well…
alot of sony stuff is buggy to. game breaking lvl normal
i know right..
detractors want to pretend bad or broken games were invented with Game Pass.. yet those same people are absent when a Game Pass title scores well.. 🙄
again,
the incentive for releasing quality games remains clear: topping sales charts, increasing Game Pass sub numbers, and raising the perception of the Xbox brand.. RedFall will do none of that because it's a 4/10 broken mess..
Btw can we all agree on the fact that the chances of Starfield coming out in 2023 are now sub 10%? I think this convo needs a thread on its own.
Starfield (and any other game) needs to release when it's ready.. period.. if that's 2024, so be it..
This game has been in development for how many years again? Wtf are they doing? Snorting coke and renting hookers? And its not like delaying does anything when its MS studios. Infinite and Redfall are the perfect examples.
alot of sony stuff is buggy to. game breaking lvl normal
I’ve stated MANY times that PlayStation has left the door WIDE open for Xbox to take over. All Xbox had to do was be “good,” not great and they would capitalize on a great opportunity. Yet here we are, watching Xbox somehow outdo PlayStation with negative performance. And it’s really allowed Nintendo to prolong the Switch generation.
Btw can we all agree on the fact that the chances of Starfield coming out in 2023 are now sub 10%? I think this convo needs a thread on its own.
Starfield (and any other game) needs to release when it's ready.. period.. if that's 2024, so be it..
This game has been in development for how many years again? Wtf are they doing? Snorting coke and renting hookers? And its not like delaying does anything when its MS studios. Infinite and Redfall are the perfect examples.
i'm not sure what they were doing but it certainly wasn't creating a quality title..
@Antwan3K: Agreed. The risk is still definitely there for these games both in selling them to non subscribers of Game Pass and attracting new subscribers to grow the user count. Games released in this state will do neither. Not only that but it “poisons the well” and you’ll lose consumers and subscribers.
@Antwan3K: Agreed. The risk is still definitely there for these games both in selling them to non subscribers of Game Pass and attracting new subscribers to grow the user count. Games released in this state will do neither. Not only that but it “poisons the well” and you’ll lose consumers and subscribers.
exactly..
the idea that they are just releasing bad/broken titles into Game Pass "just because they can" is just fanboy nonsense.. not only because of the reasons you stated but also because that hasn't even been the case.. Xbox just released the highly polished and positively received HiFi Rush earlier this year.. Microsoft won best Publisher in 2021.. and regardless of if you like the genre or not, Forza delivers with every release..
but, at the end of the day, Xbox has to be consistent on quality AAA.. like it or not, AAA is where the needle is moved.. and 2022 was a no show for AAA and the first AAA in 2023 is a flop.. they need to do better at leading the charge and setting the example..
@Antwan3K: Agreed. The risk is still definitely there for these games both in selling them to non subscribers of Game Pass and attracting new subscribers to grow the user count. Games released in this state will do neither. Not only that but it “poisons the well” and you’ll lose consumers and subscribers.
The risk is mitigated by the subscription service contracts. A 4/10 game would sell what? What’s the difference between a 4/10 game made by a Xbox dev released on Game Pass day and date vs a 9/10 game made by a Xbox dev released on Game Pass day and date. Neither are charting top 20 on the NPD sales chart after a month. What’s the sales disparity? A couple hundred thousand sales? Again, the distance between the performance floor and ceiling are shrunk considerably…
@Antwan3K: Agreed. The risk is still definitely there for these games both in selling them to non subscribers of Game Pass and attracting new subscribers to grow the user count. Games released in this state will do neither. Not only that but it “poisons the well” and you’ll lose consumers and subscribers.
exactly..
the idea that they are just releasing bad/broken titles into Game Pass "just because they can" is just fanboy nonsense..
Ok, so why did Xbox just release a “bad/broken title” then? 🤔🤔🤔
some folks are still pretending this is the first bad/broken game ever released.. 🤣🤡 apparently those only exist on Xbox and didn't exist at all prior to 2017..
@ghostofgolden: You keep releasing high quality titles on the service then more people are going to subscribe and stay subscribed to that service. I mean it’s all really straightforward. 🤷♂️
@ghostofgolden: You keep releasing high quality titles on the service then more people are going to subscribe and stay subscribed to that service. I mean it’s all really straightforward. 🤷♂️
Hold on🤚🏽🖐🏽 bud, don't come in here with the common sense logic.
This game is so shit, i feel like getting gp for 1 month and play this meme😆
watching @Pedro's gameplay vids kinda makes me want to see how bad it can get.. 😂
Don't you already have gp? Nothing to lose.
financially?.. no.. but playing a broken game just seems like a waste of time..
that said, I've played some supposed 6/10 games that were surprisingly good in my opinion.. played some supposed 9/10 games that i didn't like.. 🤷♂️ it's always good to be able to form your own opinion..
the only broken game i did play was The Last of Us on Steam since i was so hyped from the TV show.. i must have been one of the lucky ones because, outside of a few crashes, the game ran well for me..
This game is so shit, i feel like getting gp for 1 month and play this meme😆
watching @Pedro's gameplay vids kinda makes me want to see how bad it can get.. 😂
Don't you already have gp? Nothing to lose.
financially?.. no.. but playing a broken game just seems like a waste of time..
that said, I've played some supposed 6/10 games that were surprisingly good in my opinion.. played some supposed 9/10 games that i didn't like.. 🤷♂️ it's always good to be able to form your own opinion..
the only broken game i did play was The Last of Us on Steam since i was so hyped from the TV show.. i must have been one of the lucky ones because, outside of a few crashes, the game ran well for me..
I forgot that if you were to play it, it'd be in 30fps (with the innevitable drops, lots of them) on the X. Fk that, i wouldn't even bother. On my rx6800 i could most likely get it over 60fps so i could enjoy a buggy mess in a silky smooth frame rate.
@ghostofgolden: You keep releasing high quality titles on the service then more people are going to subscribe and stay subscribed to that service. I mean it’s all really straightforward. 🤷♂️
Yet the company with the content problem over the past decade is the one pushing a service, and continues to have a content problem… It seems so straightforward, yet so difficult in practice. 🤷🏾♂️
I forgot that if you were to play it, it'd be in 30fps (with the innevitable drops, lots of them) on the X. Fk that, i wouldn't even bother. On my rx6800 i could most likely get it over 60fps so i could enjoy a buggy mess in a silky smooth frame rate.
damn, totally i forgot about that.. i guess i'll give it a try after the 60fps update.. hopefully by then the game is no longer a buggy mess..
@ghostofgolden: You keep releasing high quality titles on the service then more people are going to subscribe and stay subscribed to that service. I mean it’s all really straightforward. 🤷♂️
yeah, Xbox was on the right track in 2021.. even won best Publisher according to Metacritic.. been dropping the ball since then though.. that's probably the reason why we haven't got updated Game Pass numbers since Jan 2022..
quality games drive unit sales and subscriptions.. it really isn't that difficult of a concept.. if all you can get in Game Pass is decent indies but 4/10 AAAs, the service will eventually bleed subs.. myself included..
but anyone one who isn't being intellectually dishonest would clearly realize that.. unfortunately you're talking to a 3rd generation alt with an agenda.. 🤷♂️
@ghostofgolden: 😅 Never said it was easy or that I know how to run it. Just pointing out the idea that there isn’t sufficient risk in the notion that pushing out poor quality games because they are going on a service is a pretty flawed rationale. 🤷♂️
Btw can we all agree on the fact that the chances of Starfield coming out in 2023 are now sub 10%? I think this convo needs a thread on its own.
I completely agree. We don't need Starfield until 2025 at this rate. MS can't afford to rush games. The only thing going for Xbox so far in 2023 is a 30 dollar shadowdrop
@ghostofgolden: You keep releasing high quality titles on the service then more people are going to subscribe and stay subscribed to that service. I mean it’s all really straightforward. 🤷♂️
yeah, Xbox was on the right track in 2021.. even won best Publisher according to Metacritic.. been dropping the ball since then though.. that's probably the reason why we haven't got updated Game Pass numbers since Jan 2022..
quality games drive unit sales and subscriptions.. it really isn't that difficult of a concept.. if all you can get in Game Pass is decent indies but 4/10 AAAs, the service will eventually bleed subs.. myself included..
but anyone one who isn't being intellectually dishonest would clearly realize that.. unfortunately you're talking to a 3rd generation alt with an agenda.. 🤷♂️
You and I are so close to having the same opinion, it’s wild. It’s funny that it’s actually YOUR agenda that’s holding things up.
What the hell does “winning” a metacritic award get them? Why are you seemingly OK with not getting updated Game Pass sub numbers in over a year? Are you considering dumping your Game Pass sub? And finally your #value stance is being trumped by quality. I wasn’t sure how many more flops it was gonna take before you saw the light. $30 “b-tier” games (budget not quality) isn’t enough in this industry. It looks like we can finally agree that pentiment and HiFi Rush aren’t enough to carry Xbox.
The narratives continue to fall like dominoes. One day your lightbulb will come on. I mean, you didn’t play TLOU until now, after the show and on the awful PC port… A game you would have played almost a decade ago if you weren’t a fanboy… You’re so close to seeing the light, yet seemingly so far away…
@ghostofgolden: 😅 Never said it was easy or that I know how to run it. Just pointing out the idea that there isn’t sufficient risk in the notion that pushing out poor quality games because they are going on a service is a pretty flawed rationale. 🤷♂️
It’s not flawed rationale. We’ve seen it in music and movies. Podcasts and TV. Getting that service contract money is a safety net that wasn’t previously available back when sales performance was the ONLY way to get paid. Is there still risk? Absolutely. But having a sub service contract offers a safety net that wasn’t there before. And it allows more mediocrity (and worse) to slip through the cracks. And when 1st party content is as scarce as it is for Xbox right now, the incentive to push bullshit through just to have SOMETHING to drive subscriptions is going to be more prevalent. Folks that were remotely interested in Redfall will gladly pay the $1-$10 to try it for a month vs the $70 to buy a game in the 60’s on MC. Phil is talking saturation already. They’ll do just about anything for a bump…
now the 3rd generation alt doesn't understand what winning a Metacritic award means.. the intellectual dishonestly really knows no bounds.. it means they launched the most highest rated games that year..
and quality games add to "value".. that value drives consumer interest.. consumer interest drives subs and sales.. this is not rocket surgery..
again, the incentive for releasing quality games remains clear: topping sales charts, increasing Game Pass sub numbers, and raising the perception of the Xbox brand.. RedFall will do none of that because it's a 4/10 broken mess.. the idea that it's okay to release a game in that state "because Game Pass" is fanboy nonsense.. if that becomes the consistent and continued trend for Xbox 1st party, not only will the service fail but the brand as a whole will become irrelevant..
lastly, rushed/bad/broken games have existed before 2017 and they happen on every platform..
it's sad that these concepts are either foreign to a supposed fan of the medium and/or this alt of an alt is so far gone he doesn't even know what his argument is anymore... he's just a cow in clown's clothing at his point.. 🤣🤡
a complete joke who is just trying to argue for the sake of arguing.. currently, i don't think anyone knows what point he's trying to make other than "Game Pass bad".. that certainly resonates with rabid cows but it's hard to make that point in good faith when he also admits that Game Pass is a good value.. 🤷♂️
@ghostofgolden: Eh, I just can’t buy that. I just can’t see current subscribers sticking around and new ones joining if all they put out is poor quality titles, like some folks claim is all you’ll get because it’s going to Game Pass.
@ghostofgolden: Eh, I just can’t buy that. I just can’t see current subscribers sticking around and new ones joining if all they put out is poor quality titles, like some folks claim is all you’ll get because it’s going to Game Pass.
sir, clearly everyone will subscribe to Game Pass regardless "just because"..
but also, no one is subbing to Game Pass because we haven't got updated numbers..
but also also, everyone uses Game Pass and no one buys games..
but also also also, Game Pass is clearly not Xbox's main strategy since it only accounts for 10~15% of their revenue..
🙄
it's really hard to keep track of how important and yet insignificant Game Pass is according to cows, clowns, and/or alts..
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