1. You didn't normalized the clock speed between Vega 64 and Polaris, hence you argument is debunked.
RX-580 has exceeded AMD's 185 watts TDP with gaming workload 209 wattswhile X1X's entire machine is 175 watts.
Vega 64's 12.6 TFLOPS / 295 watts TDP = 42 GFLOPS per watt
RX-580's 6.1 TFLOPS / 185 watts TDP= 32 GFLOPS per watt
RX-580's 6.1 TFLOPS / 209 watts gaming = 29 GFLOPS per watt
X1X GPU's 6 TFLOPS / ~145 watts gaming = 41 GFLOPS per watt
Notice X1X's GPU's GFLOPS per watt number is similar to Vega 64's
With year 2016 era 14nm/16 nm GCN silicon maturity, Sony has configured PS4 Pro to be less than PC's RX-480 (5.8 TFLOPS) and RX-470 (4.9 TFLOPS).
With year 2017 era 14nm/16 nm GCN silicon maturity, MS has configured X1X to rival PC's RX-580 (6.1 TFLOPS) while consuming less power than PC's RX 580.
Your argument is debunked.
2. MS has officially shown APU size relative to GDDR6 memory module chip size from E3 2019 reveal and it's up to the posters with geometry skills to estimate APU size based on relative to well known Samsung GDDR6 memory module size. This is no different to Project Scorpio's E3 2017 reveal.
Your MATT from resetera mod argument is not based on official Sony reveal.
MATT from resetera has NOT claim "hardware accelerated" ray-tracing.
Current Facts: Sony claims support ray-tracing has NOT confirmed "hardware accelerated" ray-tracing. There's nothing more than that.
3. Sony's Killzone Shadow Fall has "cheap rays" since it's not hierarchy rays.
Sony's GG also claimed "2.5D ray-tracing" which is hybrid between screen space and tiny amount of 3D.
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-making-of-killzone-shadow-fall
"So what we do is find a reflection for every pixel on screen, we find a reflection vector that goes into the screen and then basically start stepping every second pixel until we find something that's a hit. It's a 2.5D ray-trace... We can compute a rough approximation of where the vector would go and we can find pixels on-screen that represent that surface. This is all integrated into our lighting model."
GG's method is not Bounding Volume Hierarchy ray-tracing. Note why Crytek's recent RTRT demo has specifically mentioned "disabled screen space reflection (SSR)" to show it's octree voxel based real time ray-tracing tech.
4. That's your argument not mine. At this time, Sony hasn't officially confirmed "hardware accelerated" ray-tracing.
5. MS has officially shown APU size relative to GDDR6 memory module chip size from E3 2019 reveal and it's up to the posters with geometry skills to estimate APU size. This is no different to Project Scorpio's E3 2017 reveal.
Your MATT from resetera mod argument is not based on official Sony reveal. Current Facts: Sony claims ray-tracing support but not "hardware accelerated" ray-tracing.
Fuk-off with your misapplied hypocrite argument.
6. MS knows launching Polaris silicon maturity in year 2016 would result in an inferior box. More time = extra time for AMD to resolve silicon related issues. MS has it's own "PS4 Pro" like box in 2016 which is cancelled.
7. It debunks your argument with early dev kits being the final Scarlet dev kits. PowerMacs with Radeon X800 GPU era Xbox 360 dev kits has higher GPU power over the original Xbox's GPU power.
Try again.
1-RX580 y never say 590,and the argument still stand the RX580 beat the xbox one X by a considerable margin in some games,regardless of having less CU,again if the PS4 Pro would have more bandwidth better cooling and more ram even with 36CU could still match the xbox one X because the RX580 does,and Pro GPU is polaris and Vega mix and you know it,FP16 at 6TF by clock speed would have help even more the PS4 Pro.
2.NO MS has not confirm the size of its chip,what we have are sites like Beyond3D guessing the size based on screens but MS hasn't reveal the real size period. So stop giving credibility to what serve you bets fool.
3-Which i never argue it is you arguing that shit,just because has those doesn't mean it is software based,again you are acting like it is a FACT that is shader based and not hardware based.
4-Which mean shit as you can't assume it doesn't have it sony hasn't say.
5-NO they have not hypocrite Link me to MS stating our SOC is this many MM,go ahead ill wait.
Beyond3d is extrapolating the number and you use it as FACT period,when you don't want to use Matt inside info as fact,making you a 2 face hypocrite.
6-GTFO MS got something stronger because they waited 1 year,if they would have release in 2016 they would have end equal or worse than sony.
7-It debunks nothing Alber doesn't work for MS anymore and he never worked for sony he doesn't know shit.
8. And in fact rumors point at sony sending devkit last year,which is were the whole 13TF come from apparently sony is using a vega 13TF GPU because what they will use will probably be an equivalent on Navi,i don't expect this machines to come with 10 or 12 TF GPU but rather 9TF and hide behind improvements of Navi vs Vega.
Example 9TF on Navi = 12 to 13TF on Vega.
1. That's red herring argument when the argument is about basic TFLOPS target goals which MS has rivalled AMD's desktop PC RX-580's basic TFLOPS goals while consuming less power.
RX-580 didn't beat X1X GPU at 4K resolution in Gears of War 4 4K, Far Cry 5 4K and Forza Motosport 7 4K (wet tracks). RX-580 has advantage geometry due to higher lock speed but X1X GPU has Vega's other improvements e.g. Vega geometry culling (programmer skill dependant, hard to use which is corrected in RDNA).
MS designed X1X for Digital Foundry's XBO resolution gate i.e. higher resolution 1st, frame rates 2nd second, hence heavy GPU bias configuration.
According to Goossen, some performance optimisations from the upcoming AMD Vega architecture factor into the Scorpio Engine's design, but other features that made it into PS4 Pro - for example, double-rate FP16 processing - do not. However, customisation was extensive elsewhere. Microsoft's GPU command processor implementation of DX12 has provided big wins for Xbox One developers, and it's set for expansion in Scorpio.
Vega's improvements are more than just singular double rate FP16 features!
Intel's semi-custom Vega 24 CU doesn't have RPM features, but it has Vega's perf/watt and render back-ends improvements.
Xbox One X GPU has other shader resource conservation features that Vega IP doesn't have i.e. variable shading rate (VSR).
However, Andrew Goossen tells us that the GPU supports extensions that allow depth and ID buffers to be efficiently rendered at full native resolution, while colour buffers can be rendered at half resolution with full pixel shader efficiency. Based on conversations last year with Mark Cerny, there is some commonality in approach here with some of the aspects of PlayStation 4 Pro's design, but we can expect some variation in customisations - despite both working with AMD, we're reliably informed that neither Sony or Microsoft are at all aware of each other's designs before they are publicly unveiled.
Microsoft's description is similar to variable shading rate (VSR) in NVIDIA's Turing.
Variable Shading Rate is another programmer skill dependant performance up-lift. VSR is the alternative to Sony's hardware checker-board resolve in PS4 Pro.
Polaris ROPS (part of render back-ends) doesn't have Vega ROPS/X1X ROPS's very fast multi-MB cache (reduce external memory hit rates, lower graphics pipeline latency)!
RDNA v2 has VSR due to Xbox One's semi-custom changes.
PC's powerful CPUs can resolve checker-board command list for PC GPUs.
YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN.
2 YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN, Microsoft has officially shown Scarlet APU size relative to GDDR6's size with E3 2019 reveal. Punters has to use geometry skills to figure out the nearest actual APU size.
3. Your dear MATT of resetera mod is not Sony. Sony stated ray-tracing support. It's on record, Sony has played lose with cheap rays by claiming ray-tracing marketing.
Deal with it.
4. That's your argument.
Current facts
- Sony stated ray-tracing support. It's on record, Sony has played lose with cheap rays by claiming ray-tracing marketing.
- Microsoft has confirmed hardware accelerated ray-tracing.
Deal with it.
5. Microsoft has shown a visual reveal stupid cow. Again, Microsoft has officially shown Scarlet APU size relative to GDDR6's size with E3 2019 reveal. Punters has to use geometry skills to figure out the nearest actual APU size.
Current facts
- Sony stated ray-tracing support. It's on record, Sony has played lose with cheap rays by claiming ray-tracing marketing.
- Microsoft has confirmed hardware accelerated ray-tracing.
6. It's you who needs to GTFO. Who are you? You're not MS or Sony, so fuk-off.
7. You are wrong with E3 2005 Gears of War demo being equal to Xbox 360 argument.
8. Not my argument. Early dev kits means little since Vega 56/64 is missing critical performance up-lift improvements e.g. VSR and improved rasterization e.g. 8 prim triangle inputs, DCC for entire graphics pipeline. Vega 56/64 dev kits are higher than PS4 Pro or Xbox One X just as Radeon X800 CF being higher than the original Xbox.
Sony followed Microsoft's Radeon X800 CF/Geforce 6800Ultra SLI GPU misdirection when Sony selected NVIDIA G70 later in PS3's development cycle (replacing the second CELL). Microsoft is aware of certain 3rd party developers with loyalties to Sony i.e. this corporate spying management 101.
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