Skyward Sword vs Arkham City

Im really surprised by all the SS answers. I thought everyone was going to just say "oh lol zelda is dead AA all the way..." Is it really that good?... I played it for a little while and it didn't hold my interest, but I didn't play enough to judge it or anything.

VendettaRed07

but thats the thing, is it really a gimmick if the entire gameplay design revolves around it? I mean if it were tacked on like Twilight princess sure, but this is probably the first and only action game I've seen that actually make great use of motion controls. I mean you're free to dislike them because everyone has their preferences but still.Shinobishyguy

It's not a gimmick. Do you even know what a gimmick is? Kinect is a gimmick; PS Move is a gimmick; waggling the Wii Remote to make Mario jump in the SMG games is a gimmick. Motion controls in Skyward Sword are not a gimmick because they're fundamental to gameplay. You said it yourself: take away the motion control aspect and you have a game that's significantly less appealing and interesting. princeofshapeir

Ok, guys... let's keep it fair, and I'll concede motion controls are not a gimmick for SS, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people won't enjoy them, add that to the bold part and you guys will see my point is well funded.

[QUOTE="Glutenbob"][QUOTE="GreenGoblin2099"]

Please, man.. there was nothing exceptional about SS. The fact that Pikminmaniac said that it would've been disappointing if it wasn't for the controllers should tell you a lot, because unlike you guys, a whole lot of gamers aren't really into the motion controller gimmick. Take that away and what remains??

Shinobishyguy

Archaic design my ass, most developer dream that they can match the level designs that nintendo can put out

No quest log

Nintendo treats you like an idiot and describes everythign to you everytime you purchase it

The purchasing syystem is tedious. Simply enter a shop and have a list of things that can be bought, upgraded, etc instead of having the shop keeper tell you what everything is and what can be upgraded and wasintg your time with boring repetitive text over and over. Even RE4 had an amazing shopping UI. That was in 04 if I recall correctly.

Fi's annoying chatter. You ask her for advice or your next objective or anything for that matter, and you get stuck in 2 minutes of text.

Face it, Nintendo's HCI engineers are horrible, and they like to waste your time doing tedious nonsense. The worst offender if the boring open world of Skyloft's skies. You only get 3 speed bursts and takes you a while to travel from one end to the other.

[QUOTE="Glutenbob"]

I don't see how anyone can defend the motion controls in SS.

It was such a gimmick. I mean you swing left and the enemies immediately block left, swing right, they immediately block right. Its like a 1 frame animation.

If reality is what they were going for, then give us the ability to stab the enemies toes. The fact that the game really only relies on 4 directions to attack (diagnoal attacks are blocked by a right or above block from the enemy), makes it extremely boring.

princeofshapeir

Their combat isn't as annoying as SS, so yes they get a pass.

Actually to add to my earlier point, the Mass Effect combat is MUCH MUCH better. The combination of powers and guns makes for very interesting gameplay. Especially if you play Vanguard in ME2 and ME3 XD

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]but thats the thing, is it really a gimmick if the entire gameplay design revolves around it? I mean if it were tacked on like Twilight princess sure, but this is probably the first and only action game I've seen that actually make great use of motion controls. I mean you're free to dislike them because everyone has their preferences but still.GreenGoblin2099

It's not a gimmick. Do you even know what a gimmick is? Kinect is a gimmick; PS Move is a gimmick; waggling the Wii Remote to make Mario jump in the SMG games is a gimmick. Motion controls in Skyward Sword are not a gimmick because they're fundamental to gameplay. You said it yourself: take away the motion control aspect and you have a game that's significantly less appealing and interesting. princeofshapeir

Ok, guys... let's keep it fair, and I'll concede motion controls are not a gimmick for SS, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people won't enjoy them, add that to the bold part and you guys will see my point is well funded.

Well sure, not everybody will like motion controls. That's kind of to be expected with pretty much any product. I can't think of anything that is liked by every single human being in existance except for maybe vital stuff for life like air or whatever.

And as for the bolded statement, wouldn't the above point kind of contradict it? I mean, if people hate motion controls, wouldn't those people find Skyward Sword more appealing if the game had no motion controls?

Skyward Sword was my GOTY last year. Fantastic game. Underrated by the likes of System Wars.

AmayaPapaya

This.

I can't remember the last time I had so much plain fun with a game, I think it's because the wm+ mechanics are brand new in gaming. Plus it has the most interesting 3D level designs I've ever seen in a game, you know the way sub-areas and paths intertwine/connect, the game makes incredible use of all three spatial dimensions. Whereas the vast majority of 3D games feel flat. It's ironic how GC/Wii games such as Prime, SMG and Skyward Sword are games that come to mind when thinking about interesting 3D levels.

The soundtrack is pure magic aswell.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

[QUOTE="Glutenbob"] What remains is a mediocre game with archaic game design and even worse HCI design. Glutenbob

Archaic design my ass, most developer dream that they can match the level designs that nintendo can put out

No quest log

Nintendo treats you like an idiot and describes everythign to you everytime you purchase it

The purchasing syystem is tedious. Simply enter a shop and have a list of things that can be bought, upgraded, etc instead of having the shop keeper tell you what everything is and what can be upgraded and wasintg your time with boring repetitive text over and over. Even RE4 had an amazing shopping UI. That was in 04 if I recall correctly.

Fi's annoying chatter. You ask her for advice or your next objective or anything for that matter, and you get stuck in 2 minutes of text.

Face it, Nintendo's HCI engineers are horrible, and they like to waste your time doing tedious nonsense. The worst offender if the boring open world of Skyloft's skies. You only get 3 speed bursts and takes you a while to travel from one end to the other.

same with the shop keep, you just walk up to the item you want and press A

] when do you ever need to travel to the very end of the sky map? Oh thats right, never. You're making issues out of nothing :|

same with the shop keep, you just walk up to the item you want and press A

Shinobishyguy

To answer the first question, when you have to do sidequests or find the chests unlocked by the goddess cube. You may not have to travel to the 'end' of the map, but you have to do a fair bit of travelling that is BORING.

In the shop when you go to repair your stuff, the dude first asks you if you want to repair or upgrade, then in the repair screen he says "this is what I can repair/upgrade", then you select your item, then a cutscene plays out showing him repairing or upgrading your weapon.

When you go to that dude that sells bombs arrows etc, text always comes up asking if you want ot buy it for x rupees, then you have to buy it, and then go to another item and the text shows up again, and so on and so forth. Why can't you go to a vendor, look through the items, hit A to buy or B to back out. But no nintendo wants you to go through the entire converstaion over and over.

The worst is that blonde idiotic girl who stores your stuff, everytime you go there you have to endure a conversation about how she thinks you came there to talk to her, and then you have to tell her that you really don't give a crap about her.

WHY? WHY make us endure that nonsense over and over. I swear that 1 out of every 10 hours of gameplay goes into this unnecessary nonsense.

Also I forgot to mention. Nintendo does this stupid **** in that when you find a new item for gameplay session, he raises it up like Simba from the Lion King and plays that stupid sound. Why can't nintendo just keep a counter of what items you have already discovered and not do that annoying mini cutscene.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

A fantasy action-adventure with puzzle-solving versus a beat em up made after a movie. So comparable.

Pikminmaniac

It's a fantasy action-adventure with puzzle solving verses a fantasy action adventure with puzzle-solving... They are decently comparable IMHO. It's just that Arkham City has a very large stealth component as well.

P.S.The Arkham games weren't made after or for any movie. They are based solely on the Batman comicverse

The only reasonable comparison to Zelda is Okami.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]] when do you ever need to travel to the very end of the sky map? Oh thats right, never. You're making issues out of nothing :|

same with the shop keep, you just walk up to the item you want and press A

Glutenbob

To answer the first question, when you have to do sidequests or find the chests unlocked by the goddess cube. You may not have to travel to the 'end' of the map, but you have to do a fair bit of travelling that is BORING.

In the shop when you go to repair your stuff, the dude first asks you if you want to repair or upgrade, then in the repair screen he says "this is what I can repair/upgrade", then you select your item, then a cutscene plays out showing him repairing or upgrading your weapon.

When you go to that dude that sells bombs arrows etc, text always comes up asking if you want ot buy it for x rupees, then you have to buy it, and then go to another item and the text shows up again, and so on and so forth. Why can't you go to a vendor, look through the items, hit A to buy or B to back out. But no nintendo wants you to go through the entire converstaion over and over.

The worst is that blonde idiotic girl who stores your stuff, everytime you go there you have to endure a conversation about how she thinks you came there to talk to her, and then you have to tell her that you really don't give a crap about her.

WHY? WHY make us endure that nonsense over and over. I swear that 1 out of every 10 hours of gameplay goes into this unnecessary nonsense.

[QUOTE="Glutenbob"]

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]] when do you ever need to travel to the very end of the sky map? Oh thats right, never. You're making issues out of nothing :|

same with the shop keep, you just walk up to the item you want and press A

Shinobishyguy

To answer the first question, when you have to do sidequests or find the chests unlocked by the goddess cube. You may not have to travel to the 'end' of the map, but you have to do a fair bit of travelling that is BORING.

In the shop when you go to repair your stuff, the dude first asks you if you want to repair or upgrade, then in the repair screen he says "this is what I can repair/upgrade", then you select your item, then a cutscene plays out showing him repairing or upgrading your weapon.

When you go to that dude that sells bombs arrows etc, text always comes up asking if you want ot buy it for x rupees, then you have to buy it, and then go to another item and the text shows up again, and so on and so forth. Why can't you go to a vendor, look through the items, hit A to buy or B to back out. But no nintendo wants you to go through the entire converstaion over and over.

The worst is that blonde idiotic girl who stores your stuff, everytime you go there you have to endure a conversation about how she thinks you came there to talk to her, and then you have to tell her that you really don't give a crap about her.

WHY? WHY make us endure that nonsense over and over. I swear that 1 out of every 10 hours of gameplay goes into this unnecessary nonsense.

Maybe to you it is. However I feel differently and as do many others.

Ever wonder why western developed games don't have this problem? It's because Western Developers place a huge emphasis on HCI, which Nintendo has no idea about.

Neither

Arkham City is the best Batman game ever made and SS is not the best Zelda.

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="Glutenbob"]

To answer the first question, when you have to do sidequests or find the chests unlocked by the goddess cube. You may not have to travel to the 'end' of the map, but you have to do a fair bit of travelling that is BORING.

In the shop when you go to repair your stuff, the dude first asks you if you want to repair or upgrade, then in the repair screen he says "this is what I can repair/upgrade", then you select your item, then a cutscene plays out showing him repairing or upgrading your weapon.

When you go to that dude that sells bombs arrows etc, text always comes up asking if you want ot buy it for x rupees, then you have to buy it, and then go to another item and the text shows up again, and so on and so forth. Why can't you go to a vendor, look through the items, hit A to buy or B to back out. But no nintendo wants you to go through the entire converstaion over and over.

The worst is that blonde idiotic girl who stores your stuff, everytime you go there you have to endure a conversation about how she thinks you came there to talk to her, and then you have to tell her that you really don't give a crap about her.

WHY? WHY make us endure that nonsense over and over. I swear that 1 out of every 10 hours of gameplay goes into this unnecessary nonsense.

Glutenbob

Maybe to you it is. However I feel differently and as do many others.

Even though SS was surprisngly dissapointing, I'd take it over Arkham City . I hate pretty much everything in that game.

I prefer SS character movement, combat and world.

Arkham City is made for people with no brain. You could just hit one button and every bad guys around you die. Skyward Sword, on the other hand, requires real gamer skills that Gamespot review team was not able to implement,. Thus they scored 7.5. nchan

It proved that Motion Controls are completely viable and can improve/deepen a core gaming experience intuitively.

Pikminmaniac

7 years after the Wii released? If anything it proved the opposite :lol:

Arkham City is made for people with no brain. You could just hit one button and every bad guys around you die. Skyward Sword, on the other hand, requires real gamer skills that Gamespot review team was not able to implement,. Thus they scored 7.5. nchan

Yeah, I totally want to see you completing a 60+ flow ;)

Arkham City is made for people with no brain. You could just hit one button and every bad guys around you die. Skyward Sword, on the other hand, requires real gamer skills that Gamespot review team was not able to implement,. Thus they scored 7.5. nchan

Which one would you like - SaintDogWalrusSaintWalrus

Since I already own AC, I would like Skyward Sword, please.

Money can be transferred directly to my account at realnigerianprince@totallynotahoax.net

If we're talking which is better, I haven't played SS but from what I've played of Zelda games recently Batman is superior.

[QUOTE="Pikminmaniac"]

It proved that Motion Controls are completely viable and can improve/deepen a core gaming experience intuitively.

N30F3N1X

7 years after the Wii released? If anything it proved the opposite :lol:

Even though I am a lifelong Zelda fan, I couldn't stand Skyward Sword

and

Arkham City was probably one of the best games I have ever played. So there you go

To answer the first question, when you have to do sidequests or find the chests unlocked by the goddess cube. You may not have to travel to the 'end' of the map, but you have to do a fair bit of travelling that is BORING.

In the shop when you go to repair your stuff, the dude first asks you if you want to repair or upgrade, then in the repair screen he says "this is what I can repair/upgrade", then you select your item, then a cutscene plays out showing him repairing or upgrading your weapon.

When you go to that dude that sells bombs arrows etc, text always comes up asking if you want ot buy it for x rupees, then you have to buy it, and then go to another item and the text shows up again, and so on and so forth. Why can't you go to a vendor, look through the items, hit A to buy or B to back out. But no nintendo wants you to go through the entire conversation over and over.

The worst is that blonde idiotic girl who stores your stuff, everytime you go there you have to endure a conversation about how she thinks you came there to talk to her, and then you have to tell her that you really don't give a crap about her.

WHY? WHY make us endure that nonsense over and over. I swear that 1 out of every 10 hours of gameplay goes into this unnecessary nonsense.

Glutenbob

I agree.

Nintendo seems insistent on burdening Zelda down with unnecessary clunky UIs and text that take too long to navigate through even for the most mundane of tasks. The way I see it, they have to do three things before I'll even think about looking at another Zelda:

1) stop treating me like I'm in kintergarden. This is where my hope for another decent Zelda dies, as I know Nintendo will never credit their audience with being able to think and figure things out on their own. But the strange thing is, parts of Zelda games do present a good challenge, but many others are patronizing to the extreme. It's almost like two different games.

2) cut out the fat exemplified by Glutenbob. They need to speed up the interface, eliminate repetitious tedious explanations, and overall come to understand what the word efficient means and how it pertains to gameplay. STREAMLINE IT. It's just not fun moving at the speed of molasses to do simple things such as go buy supplies or talk to someone. Some may think this is nitpicking, but it gets old very fast when it occurs throughout the whole game. The first time, a slow explanation is OK. From then on assume that it's known, and move an explanation into the start menu under a tutorial tab that updates as new mechanics and text are introduced that may need to be reviewed.

3) pacing. This is by far the biggest reason why I can't play Zelda anymore.....it removes any motivation to go on. And it is a direct consequence of the above problems that are caused from Nintendo's "let's include everybody" game design philosophy. It is way, way, way too slow to start. I now always dread the beginning of Zelda games, because they are boring, errand ridden, hold-me-by-the-hand tutorial missions masquerading under a "waking up in a village" level. Herd those sheep! Slash those straw dummies! Go fishing! Practice jumping and floating! Maybe in 5 hours after we've explained it over and over and over we'll take off the training wheels and let you explore a little. Just a little.

This is a massive problem and fans seem to really downplay it. ALttP's beginning was amazing. Within 5 minutes you have a sword, shield, are fighting enemies and rescuing the princess through the sewers, then all of a sudden you're out with the entire world to explore. Why can't they start Zelda off with a bang like that again? I know exactly why: because Nintendo views it as throwing a child off a pier instead of playing daddy, gently holding the kid's hand as they slowly wade in.

Alright, I'm done venting. Nintendo insists on treating me like an idiot and baby which ruins one of the most tantamount aspects of a game, its pacing, and as long as they continue to do this I won't even look at Zelda anymore. I'm sure a lot of Zelda supporters will jump down my throat for this, but whatever. I don't know how people stay loyal to a franchise that takes them for complete morons, which in turn becomes a detriment to having a fun game to play.

Arkham city....

[QUOTE="N30F3N1X"]

[QUOTE="Pikminmaniac"]

It proved that Motion Controls are completely viable and can improve/deepen a core gaming experience intuitively.

meetroid8

7 years after the Wii released? If anything it proved the opposite :lol:

Umm, I'll take Darksiders 2 for 60 Bob :o do I win ?:P

AC is vastly superior to SS. SS is like Zelda for Noobs. They dumbed the series down to make it more accessible. Nintendo needs to change the Zelda formula and try to offer something new IMO. Interested in seeing if they change it up for the WiiU.

[QUOTE="Glutenbob"]

To answer the first question, when you have to do sidequests or find the chests unlocked by the goddess cube. You may not have to travel to the 'end' of the map, but you have to do a fair bit of travelling that is BORING.

In the shop when you go to repair your stuff, the dude first asks you if you want to repair or upgrade, then in the repair screen he says "this is what I can repair/upgrade", then you select your item, then a cutscene plays out showing him repairing or upgrading your weapon.

When you go to that dude that sells bombs arrows etc, text always comes up asking if you want ot buy it for x rupees, then you have to buy it, and then go to another item and the text shows up again, and so on and so forth. Why can't you go to a vendor, look through the items, hit A to buy or B to back out. But no nintendo wants you to go through the entire conversation over and over.

The worst is that blonde idiotic girl who stores your stuff, everytime you go there you have to endure a conversation about how she thinks you came there to talk to her, and then you have to tell her that you really don't give a crap about her.

WHY? WHY make us endure that nonsense over and over. I swear that 1 out of every 10 hours of gameplay goes into this unnecessary nonsense.

MirkoS77

I agree.

Nintendo seems insistent on burdening Zelda down with unnecessary clunky UIs and text that take too long to navigate through even for the most mundane of tasks. The way I see it, they have to do three things before I'll even think about looking at another Zelda:

1) stop treating me like I'm in kintergarden. This is where my hope for another decent Zelda dies, as I know Nintendo will never credit their audience with being able to think and figure things out on their own. But the strange thing is, parts of Zelda games do present a good challenge, but many others are patronizing to the extreme. It's almost like two different games.

2) cut out the fat exemplified by Glutenbob. They need to speed up the interface, eliminate repetitious tedious explanations, and overall come to understand what the word efficient means and how it pertains to gameplay. STREAMLINE IT. It's just not fun moving at the speed of molasses to do simple things such as go buy supplies or talk to someone. Some may think this is nitpicking, but it gets old very fast when it occurs throughout the whole game. The first time, a slow explanation is OK. From then on assume that it's known, and move an explanation into the start menu under a tutorial tab that updates as new mechanics and text are introduced that may need to be reviewed.

3) pacing. This is by far the biggest reason why I can't play Zelda anymore.....it removes any motivation to go on. And it is a direct consequence of the above problems that are caused from Nintendo's "let's include everybody" game design philosophy. It is way, way, way too slow to start. I now always dread the beginning of Zelda games, because they are boring, errand ridden, hold-me-by-the-hand tutorial missions masquerading under a "waking up in a village" level. Herd those sheep! Slash those straw dummies! Go fishing! Practice jumping and floating! Maybe in 5 hours after we've explained it over and over and over we'll take off the training wheels and let you explore a little. Just a little.

This is a massive problem and fans seem to really downplay it. ALttP's beginning was amazing. Within 5 minutes you have a sword, shield, are fighting enemies and rescuing the princess through the sewers, then all of a sudden you're out with the entire world to explore. Why can't they start Zelda off with a bang like that again? I know exactly why: because Nintendo views it as throwing a child off a pier instead of playing daddy, gently holding the kid's hand as they slowly wade in.

Alright, I'm done venting. Nintendo insists on treating me like an idiot and baby which ruins one of the most tantamount aspects of a game, its pacing, and as long as they continue to do this I won't even look at Zelda anymore. I'm sure a lot of Zelda supporters will jump down my throat for this, but whatever. I don't know how people stay loyal to a franchise that takes them for complete morons, which in turn becomes a detriment to having a fun game to play.

Umm, I'll take Darksiders 2 for 60 Bob :o do I win ?:P

SecretPolice

Ofcourse, Darksiders 2 is gonna be the best action adventure ever made. XD

I will never understand why people will compare/argue about two differnt games when they havn'et BEATEN both games lol. "I saw my friend play it for 3 minutes and it sucks!"

I'm surprised nobody else was let down by Arkham City's ending. The story dragged on far too much. I thought the Joker's disease was just a subplot to distract from the main plot, which was kicking Hugo Strange's ass and finding out the purpose behind Arkham City. Instead, the game quickly wrapped up the main plot and made the Joker's disease the focus of the story. It reeked of fan service to me.princeofshapeir

I was... but not because of the reason you just said, after all Strange is a lame-o and without Joker's part, story would take like 1/4 if not less to beat, so it's reasonable to have Joker's disease to become the main focus.

[spoiler] What I didn't like was Joker's death... seriously, killing characters is a no-no in my books, because I hate the whole "came back from death" BS. If he's dead, he's dead... leave him/her that way [/spoiler]

But when writers realize they f**ked up by doing that, they come up with some grade-A BS to "fix it" and I bet this will happen sooner or later.